Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: RideHard on September 21, 2015, 06:44:19 pm

Title: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: RideHard on September 21, 2015, 06:44:19 pm
All aboard for the Chilterns Pub Crawl  AAA3 on this new classic Chiltern Cycleway ride with altitude..
A New Grimpeur du Sud event...  extending The London Grimpeur AAA2 150km to a full Audax  :thumbsup:

Another thank you to RideHard and his London Grimpeur.

A lifetime ago I was a member of the Bath Road Club and our club runs often ventured into the Chilterns. It was nice (?) to revist old haunts.

The route was great. Fantastic views, no truely nasty climbs,  fast descents and wonderful weather. The sound track of Red Kites added to the occasion.
It was a shame that Kop Hill was only accessible to petrol heads. I'll sign up for the 200k Chilterns Pub Crawl on November 1st to see what I missed out on.

really enjoyed the London Grimpeur; bastard hard ride for the 2AAA but some lovely views;



Steam Ride SR: (LOL)The Ghan/The Ghan reversed/Chiltern Pub Crawl 200, University Challenge 300, London Circuit 400, Raid Paris : Golden Arrow [Fleche D'Ord] (PERM's) 400,600,700
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: danrough on September 25, 2015, 02:37:53 pm
It's probably sorted by now, but if the organiser of this ride is looking for volunteers to help, I live in between the Wendover and Dunstable controls - I'd happily volunteers a some of my time to man one of those controls.

If it's of interest let me know.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 11, 2015, 08:41:12 am
This is easily the best Chiltern Collection I have ever seen assembled in to one event! This really is a Tour de Chilterns ,,,,, here are some highlights:

Ascents: Speen, Haw Lane (Bledlow Ridge) Bullock's Farm Lane, Dudley Lane, Pishill, Chinnor Hill, Woodway, Kop Hill, Longdown Hill, Wendover Woods, Hastoe, Toms Hill, Dunstable Downs, Graeme's Dyke (Berkhamsted), Eskdale Avenue (Chesham)

Descents: Small Dean Lane, Foxboro Hill, Fingest lane, Wardrobes, Whiteleaf, The Crong, Ivinghoe Beacon, Bison Hill, New Road (Berkhamsted)

There are others, such as Bottrells Lane and Magpie Lane for example, but the above are just selected highlights. In fact, the route passes the starts of Aston Hill and Kingston Hill too, so you could choose to, gratuitously, climb one and descend the other without adding much distance to the ride as a bonus!


Cracking route, a landmark event packed with landmarks!
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Brakeless on October 11, 2015, 11:03:53 pm
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 12, 2015, 09:28:04 am
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[
Having done a load of personal DIY Perms in the Chilterns of my own, I can say that only 11 controls is pretty good for a Chilterns AAA ride. I spent months of trial and error devising my personal routes and trying to get a low control count for my DIY entries to Paul Stewart. My earlier post was a genuine complement to RH, out of respect given my experience of the time I have devoted to devising my routes and riding in the area.....it ain't easy to get the AAA rate without zig-zagging, but that means you need extra controls for the 'extremities' otherwise the distance falls below the required amount when using the 'shortest route' calculation for the Audax points.

Info controls only take a minute to stop at, on some you don't even need to stop, you just read a sign as you pass it. OK, you can miss them if using GPX, but I am a bit puzzled as to why that would put someone of a ride?

To be honest, given the effort I know must have gone in to devising this route, if I was RH I would be asking why I bother if that's the sort of response people are likely to give. It doesn't encourage me to turn any of my personal Chiltern DIY routes in to events or even Perms....who'd want to be an organiser?

Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Brakeless on October 12, 2015, 11:04:15 am
The response is feedback as to why I wouldn't enter the ride. I've done 2 of the rides out of Ruislip this year and fully appreciate them. I personally find info controls a pain in the arse and to stop 11 times in 200km is not for me. Most event organisers ask for feedback, this is mine.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: fussballclub on October 12, 2015, 02:18:41 pm
It is not exactly Barton Mills control on the way back from Wells next the Sea or even being in the pub with Hummers. But banter at an info control in my opinion is always very welcome.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 12, 2015, 05:43:02 pm
Sadly, AAA rides in the Chilterns are going to need more controls than usual for the reasons stated above, it's just that the topography and road network always require the zig zags to meet the AAA rate of climbing! I'll say it again, I think RH has done an amazing job in coming up with this route, and I appreciate that not everyone will have invested hours of their lives creating Chiltern AAA routes as I have but, believe me, 11 controls is low for the terrain and TBH they might represent some welcome respite from the climbing!

To my mind, info controls are a lot less hassle than getting receipts, and often one doesn't even need to stop if, say, it just involves reading a distance from a direction sign. Now, if it were 8 receipts/stamps and 3 infos, then I might understand! I'm not being critical of Brakeless, you are your own man and are entitled to your view, of course....and I can understand why less controls would be preferable. My concern is that if you represent a 'typical' view it might be really disheartening for RH given the amount of work, I assume, he must have put in to this.



Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: hillbilly on October 12, 2015, 07:17:35 pm
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Same reason as I've not entered. 
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: jsabine on October 12, 2015, 07:21:32 pm
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Same reason as I've not entered.

Sounds like future editions of this might be candidates for the mandatory route option, assuming that the AGM is happy to endorse it.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Martin on October 12, 2015, 11:08:34 pm
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Same reason as I've not entered.

Sounds like future editions of this might be candidates for the mandatory route option, assuming that the AGM is happy to endorse it.

Not for calendar events Shirley? I thought that was only for GPS perms. Everyone on a calendar event has to be able to collect stamps / receipts / infos without the need for a gps device

Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 12, 2015, 11:10:23 pm
The options for calender events are being investigated and something may be implemented in future, but not for a while.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: RideHard on October 13, 2015, 12:59:41 pm
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Same reason as I've not entered.

This ride IS DIFFERENT to any you're used too.. not a endless loop though forests, but a journey through up-lifting Vistas AONB..  8)
Audley, Dunstable Downs, Ashridge, Wineries, Vinyards, NT  's but Hey, it's you're choice  ;D
If you're a Hard-rider, you'll probably will appreciate the endless supply of quiant pubs, cafes and choice Watering controls rather than the stunningly scenic nature.. to fill up your water bottles :)

Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: jsabine on October 13, 2015, 04:43:31 pm
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Same reason as I've not entered.

Sounds like future editions of this might be candidates for the mandatory route option, assuming that the AGM is happy to endorse it.

Not for calendar events Shirley? I thought that was only for GPS perms. Everyone on a calendar event has to be able to collect stamps / receipts / infos without the need for a gps device

As LWAB says, the mechanisms aren't in place, so it's definitely a future possibility rather than something you should expect Real Soon Now. But the proposal was drafted to include (or at the very least not to exclude) mandatory route calendar events (where the possibilities of, um, trusting the riders1 might mean you didn't need silly numbers of manned or info controls purely for route integrity) and even calendar-by-GPS (where not needing to pass control facilities might offer exciting new route possibilities).

Calendar-by-GPS, of course, opens all sorts of cans of worms that we're not ready to face yet (around inclusion, verification, how to manage the arrivee ...), so that's very firmly a possibility whose time has not yet come, but simply declaring a calendar event to have a mandatory-route - and then setting controls accordingly - should be a little easier to make happen.





1: Trust can, of course, always be backed up by the possibility of a secret control
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 13, 2015, 05:46:57 pm
...Secret Controls on a mandatory route would be an excellent answer to cutting down the number of controls needed. I suppose that guys up front could always phone details back to full value riders, but I doubt that it would be seriously abused.

Meanwhile, for some reason I can't get the amusing notion out of my head that robust, tough, seasoned Audaxers can: navigate themselves, ride long distances, tackle hills, ride through the night, deal with mechanicals unsupported, monitor hydration and nutrition and ride during winter in all sorts of weather conditions but a few extra Info Controls is a challenge too far! Only joking chaps, no offence meant, hope you can see the funny side too!
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: hillbilly on October 13, 2015, 07:17:40 pm
Because my experience of such routes is that they aren't suitable  for Audax.  Or at least how I like routes to be constructed. Others will take a different view and care less about the "flow" of the route.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 13, 2015, 07:25:19 pm
I thought that it was because cycling is the new golf. Too many infos is a good ride spoiled and all that.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Brakeless on October 13, 2015, 09:09:16 pm
Because my experience of such routes is that they aren't suitable  for Audax.  Or at least how I like routes to be constructed. Others will take a different view and care less about the "flow" of the route.

This ^^

A route with an info every 20km is far more suited to a Sportive with a signed route than it is to Audax. I'm happy riding my bike for 100km without stopping, a 200km with a few controls and a couple of info's is fine. Audax for me is about Long Distance not faffing around every 20km. If the event gets loads of entries then great I'm happy to be in the minority but it's just not for me.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Whitedown Man on October 13, 2015, 09:12:37 pm
Because my experience of such routes is that they aren't suitable  for Audax.  Or at least how I like routes to be constructed. Others will take a different view and care less about the "flow" of the route.

This ^^

A route with an info every 20km is far more suited to a Sportive with a signed route than it is to Audax. I'm happy riding my bike for 100km without stopping, a 200km with a few controls and a couple of info's is fine. Audax for me is about Long Distance not faffing around every 20km. If the event gets loads of entries then great I'm happy to be in the minority but it's just not for me.

And another vote for the "flow party". A perfect route has a control every 40-50k during the day and maybe 80-100k overnight. Much more frequent than that and the incessant stop-start begins to wear me down.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 14, 2015, 09:58:29 am
This is really amusing me, best thread in ages! I'm loving it.

RH designed a stunning ride meant to be attractive to AAA people living within reach of the Chilterns, for which I am very grateful. However, as already explained if you do AAA in the Chilterns, it requires extra controls.....there is a mutual exclusivity, less controls means no AAA, AAA means more controls...you can't have both. But instead of a thread frequented by the people to whom the ride is aimed, people who understand and accept the prevailing conditions, it is populated by people telling us why they are not suited to it. I just have this vision of people going on websites and emailing retailers to explain why they are not buying a product: 'Dear Sainsbury's, of the 3,000 products in your store here's a list of reasons why I'm not buying 2,976 of them.......'

Here's another analogy:

An attractive girl goes in to a bar and sits down. During the evening several men approach her to explain that they don't fancy her because they prefer blondes/they are gay/she's too tall/she's too short or whatever. With all of these 'uninterested' men walking over and then leaving, men who are interested assume that there is something wrong and don't bother. She leaves the bar alone wondering what is wrong with these people and asking why she went to the effort in the first place.

I for one intend to enter this thing of beauty and look forward to a good ride and feeling sh*gged afterwards  :)

PS Sh*gging is an energetic dance from the Carolinas' Beach Music scene (think: Jive meets Northern Soul)

Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: mattc on October 14, 2015, 10:09:28 am
However, as already explained if you do AAA in the Chilterns, it requires extra controls
Well exactly.

A few weeks back I rode the Henly Hilly Hundred which covers a lot of similar terrain. It had even more infos-per-km than this ride (although only 100-ish km of them), but folks come back year-after-year.

I prefer less infos, but that ain't gonna happen on an AAA ride in the Chilterns!!!
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Whitedown Man on October 14, 2015, 10:22:36 am
RH designed a stunning ride meant to be attractive to AAA people living within reach of the Chilterns, for which I am very grateful. However, as already explained if you do AAA in the Chilterns, it requires extra controls.....there is a mutual exclusivity, less controls means no AAA, AAA means more controls...you can't have both. But instead of a thread frequented by the people to whom the ride is aimed, people who understand and accept the prevailing conditions, it is populated by people telling us why they are not suited to it.

Fair enough / mea culpa. But OTOH this is hardly the first instance of a thread veering away from its original theme (and FWIW I'm registered to ride this one despite my antipathy to info controls precisely because I rate RH's events highly enough to over-ride my misgivings).
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 14, 2015, 11:52:45 am
Actually, joking aside.....and I mean no harm to anyone as, like everyone else I presume, I naturally agree that less controls is preferable where possible...........the moment of brilliance in this thread is jsabine's point about fixed routes and secret controls, a fantastic idea that merits more discussion. Would this have been raised/suggested without Brakeless's initial 'feedback'? Possibly not.

A healthy discussion centred around a fantastic 'breakthrough' event for us Chiltern AAA enthusiasts....just what forums were made for!
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Brakeless on October 14, 2015, 12:41:54 pm
Huff n Puff - I see you put my feedback in inverted commas as I presume that helps you Huff n puff and shake your head  a little bit more.

Feedback is exactly what it is, I fully understand that a route such as this needs so many infos but it is also a reason why people may choose not to do this ride and letting the organisor know is fair enough.

As for your assumption that people commenting negatively are not the people that this ride is aimed at then you couldn't be more wrong. I've done two of the Ruislip rides this year a 200 and the 300 University ride, the last ride I did was the AAAnfractious, . I've also ridden the Pendle 600 this year and Rode Mille Cymru last year, as you can see I like a hilly ride, I also live within riding distance of the Chilterns and a 20 mile ride to the start of the Ruislip rides and I immediately looked at this one as a ride to do as I've ridden every hill on the route several times and know that it will be a good route.

Your comments about not be able to cope with the challenge of 11 controls, as well as telling us how to cope with them, are really pretty stupid and condescending,almost as stupid as Sainsburys analogies! it's nothing to do with any challenge, it's about not wanting to have to bother with a control every 20km.

Each to their own, I genuinely hope that the event is well supported and you all have a great day.



Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 14, 2015, 01:01:16 pm
I'm just wondering, if some have got to the stage of prioritising the points earned over the having a nice day out on your bike with people you know and a cup of tea and a slice of caik at the end aspect of push bike riding.

And also, openly criticising it on an interweb forum is a bit harsh on;

a) The ride.
b) The Organiser.
c) The Volunteers.

Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 14, 2015, 01:47:28 pm
Huff n Puff - I see you put my feedback in inverted commas as I presume that helps you Huff n puff and shake your head  a little bit more.

As it happens, You presume wrongly, it was put inverted commas because I was quoting you, simple as that! It avoided using a, longer, descriptive sentence. TBH, you are mis-interpreting most of my 'light -hearted' emails but let's move on. I have t say that I am surprised at your response, my apologies for appearing to upset you, if that's what has happened. I also made the point that you instigating the discussion was a good thing! I mean no harm and thank you for your best wishes. I also salute your palmares, well done.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 14, 2015, 01:50:53 pm
I'm just wondering, if some have got to the stage of prioritising the points earned over the having a nice day out on your bike with people you know and a cup of tea and a slice of caik at the end aspect of push bike riding.

No need to wonder Auntie, I certainly prioritise points on some rides.....not always, but I certainly do it on occasions.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: jsabine on October 14, 2015, 02:21:48 pm
the moment of brilliance in this thread is jsabine's point about fixed routes and secret controls, a fantastic idea that merits more discussion.

Far be it from me to turn down compliments (thank you in any case!) but I can't claim credit for doing anything except passing on bits of the discussion around the AUK boardroom table ...

As I say, Paul Stewart's proposed amendment on mandatory routes, although first applicable to DIY-by-GPS, was deliberately drafted to include the possibility of fixed-route calendar events, and we were explicitly thinking about hilly routes that would otherwise need an inordinate number of controls.

(I think the Tour of the Hills was the one that was actually mentioned by name, but this new route from RH definitely feels like it raises the same sort of issues.)


Because my experience of such routes is that they aren't suitable  for Audax.  Or at least how I like routes to be constructed. Others will take a different view and care less about the "flow" of the route.

There's certainly a view that routes zigzagging hither and thither don't flow too well, and that simply stringing together a bunch of hills isn't a great way to go about things. OTOH, where the climbs themselves - and the views, assuming you get decent weather - are worthwhile, with the zigs and the zags merely necessary links, maybe not having to find a control at every single apex can help make it flow more naturally.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Martin on October 14, 2015, 02:43:28 pm
Because my experience of such routes is that they aren't suitable  for Audax.  Or at least how I like routes to be constructed. Others will take a different view and care less about the "flow" of the route.

It doesn't stop the Tour of the Hills being one of the most popular Audax rides in the SE; the route map looks like a drunk spider stepped in some purple paint!

I won't be doing this ride as I'm otherwise engaged that weekend, but even if I wasn't I'd probably not do it as

1. I did the very similar 150 a couple of weeks ago
2. The route is very similar to another AAA 200 in the area (which I also did a couple of weeks ago and has generally kinder hills or at least does them in the other direction)
3. I prefer the Upper Thames for a November calendar 200 (and that's got no AAA even though it's not flat)

the 8 infos would not bother me overly, a good chance to get one's breath (and legs) back

I wish RideHard all the best with this event though  :)
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: hillbilly on October 14, 2015, 02:55:12 pm
TotH is a Populaire, so it follows it should be popular.

I toyed with putting on a 200 in the Surrey Hills.  I decide not to because it needed 13 controls.  I thought this was around 5 too many.  I'm looking forward to reading more about mandatory BR routes in time, as that might make it feasible.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Andy Corless on October 14, 2015, 03:39:18 pm
Tell me to MMOB if you wish but FWIW, an extract from the Organiser's Handbook states, "Try to design your route so that it does not require too many controls. Convoluted routes which require excessive numbers of controls are inherently unsuited to Audax events. The table below gives a guide to how many controls to aim for (plus the start and finish):

200: Number of Full Controls 2 - 4. Total Number of Controls (All Types) 2 - 8.

If you want to claim AAA points then you may need additional information controls or checkpoints in addition to the numbers above to guarantee the amount of climbing. However if too many controls are required then a rethink is probably required
".

Andy Corless
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Martin on October 14, 2015, 04:21:28 pm
TotH is a Populaire, so it follows it should be popular.

I toyed with putting on a 200 in the Surrey Hills.  I decide not to because it needed 13 controls.  I thought this was around 5 too many.  I'm looking forward to reading more about mandatory BR routes in time, as that might make it feasible.

I don't understand mandatory calendar routes  ??? how are organisers to know those without Garmins have used the route? or are we talking gps only events?
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 14, 2015, 04:24:56 pm
Trust ?  ;)
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: hillbilly on October 14, 2015, 04:27:52 pm
Scenting.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 14, 2015, 04:40:49 pm
I don't understand mandatory calendar routes  ??? how are organisers to know those without Garmins have used the route? or are we talking gps only events?
[/quote]
See above, re the use of secret controls. By having secret controls the riders do not know where they will be checked, so they should stick to the route for fear of missing a control. No GPS needed.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Martin on October 14, 2015, 04:48:30 pm
we did away with secret controls years ago! ( I think I last rode a UK event with one in 2006)

they only work if the last or nearly last info control is a secret control; if it's early on riders know the secret controller has been and gone and can happily ignore the others, as the secret controller will have to spend too long at each,

unless there is an army of wannabe secret controllers out there; if there is I've got a tea urn you can polish instead  ;)
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 14, 2015, 04:54:57 pm
Pretty much every other randonneuring country has mandatory routes. Few are obsessional about placing controls at locations that absolutely prevent shortcutting. It seems to work most of the time. Riders that extract the urine are refused homologation, occasionally for all future BRMs.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: mattc on October 14, 2015, 05:54:29 pm
Scenting.
or http://bbigwords.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ariadne_by_talita_rj-d4q05zp.jpg
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: hillbilly on October 14, 2015, 06:49:29 pm
Pretty much every other randonneuring country has mandatory routes. Few are obsessional about placing controls at locations that absolutely prevent shortcutting. It seems to work most of the time. Riders that extract the urine are refused homologation, occasionally for all future BRMs.

*thinks out loud*
I'd suggest UK is slightly different due to AAA. 

Particularly relevant in the case of rides like the Chilterns Pub Crawl and TotH, because the number of info controls probably doesn't reflect only a need to prove "minimum distance" but an additional need to prove you hit the high notes.

I'd anticipate the AAA Man would need to be comfortable that mandatory routing gave him the brevidence he needs to be comfortable that honest sweat was toiled and gravity overcome.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 14, 2015, 07:00:10 pm
So AAA folk are natural-born cheaters?

Perhaps some of these posts should be moved to another thread?
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 14, 2015, 07:12:16 pm
I don't see why the AAA man should come into it when you can ride The Cambrians by either going over the tops to get the metres or hugging the valleys to avoid them and still get the same AAA.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: hillbilly on October 14, 2015, 07:33:27 pm
Yes, some of these posts could do with moving.

No, AAA riders are not likely to cheat more or less than others.  The point I was making is that mandatory routing would also need someone other than AUK validations to be comfortable that the "proof" it offers is sufficient.  And if it isn't, then it needn't stop mandatory routing (but would need another form of "proof" to be provided). 

Yes, Cambrian can stick to valleys, but the reality is that it would significantly add to distance and for many riders would put them out of time.  So it is arguably "self policing".  In any case, and I may be wrong, but my experience has been that the Cambrian rides err on the side of understating AAA.  I've yet to do one that isn't noticeably over the listed AAA (admittedly this may simply reflect that I am spectacularly bad at route plotting or that I just take the most direct route).
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 14, 2015, 07:42:24 pm
That's a good idea.

FWIW to get the 9.5AAA on the 6A you'll need to go over pretty much all the hills between controls and not trundle along the A40 between Fishguard and Monmouth.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: hillbilly on October 14, 2015, 08:04:44 pm
Given the A40 is around 15 miles different to the shortest route, and the bulk of this difference is due to the stretch between Llandeilo and Fishguard, I'd dare to hope this was taken into account by the organiser/AAA man when establishing the points to be awarded.  If not, then questions should be asked in Parliament.  Or something  ???
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 14, 2015, 08:09:18 pm
But then it's best to go over the hills if you value your life.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: hillbilly on October 14, 2015, 08:14:38 pm
True. 

I remember mistakenly cycling on the A40 over that way, after taking a wrong turn near Carmarthen.  It was sphincter clenchingly horrible and I retraced to take the more scenic B road I had in mind (and found a road closure required going up into more hills, and then getting lost, but that's another story...)

I guess all these things go in the mix when setting "realistic" AAA.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: fussballclub on October 14, 2015, 08:58:42 pm
That evening this January after the Underriver rubble I fell in love with A roads when I turned right onto the A225 from the Pilgrims Way and found there were more then one way to Eynsford!
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: jsabine on October 14, 2015, 09:26:59 pm
we did away with secret controls years ago!

They're not, AFAIK, prohibited anywhere in The Roolz - but if you've got free routing, they're damn all use.

And you don't actually need a Secret Controller to put The Fear into riders, just a box on the brevet card. (Or two, if you want to be mean.)

Anyway, as LWaB said somewhere up there^^^, the practicalities for mandatory-route calendar events (including whether or not we can actually trust riders, or will instead require all applicants to show up seven days beforehand to have a GPS implant fitted) have yet to be determined. As ever, as long as the micturation remains unextracted, things will probably work out OK.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Phil W on October 14, 2015, 09:50:47 pm
I turned the Chilterns Cycleway into a 300km overnight ride last July. Minimum distance threw it out of the window as a DIY by GPS thanks to the nature of the roads. But it's great riding and my height ascended was 5,200m for that ride. Mandatory routing makes that kind of route available as a DIY by GPS.

I think secret controls / checkpoints are appropriate for a non competitive past time followed by the honest 98% * or so.

* Made up percentages, number of people who feel the need to shortcut if probably much smaller.

Till now Infos  it is, but it'll be through some great countryside on this ride.

Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 16, 2015, 09:42:28 am
...secret controls .....................they only work if the last or nearly last info control is a secret control; if it's early on riders know the secret controller has been and gone and can happily ignore the others, as the secret controller will have to spend too long at each,

Yes, I can see that, and I doubt it can be totally overcome. However, I was envisaging a scenario where one secret control could, perhaps, replace several info controls in, say, one segment, leaving a combination of other controls elsewhere (infos, receipts, stamps and secrets) . Also, as has been mooted above, the idea of excess several secret control boxes on the brevet card, so that the rider doesn't actually know how many there are, going some way to resolving your concerns had occurred to me.

As for manning all of this, let's say the ride potentially had 3 manned controls and 8 infos. It is likely that the 3 manned locations involve retail establishments so they might be turned into 'receipt' controls freeing up 3 controllers who then go out and man 3 secret controls to replace some, or all, of the info controls. The outcome, if this were feasible, would be a drop from 11 to 6 controls. It may not suit every event, but probably merits some consideration.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Martin on October 16, 2015, 10:40:17 am
I dson't remember the 150 version having any manned controls apart from the start and finish; they were both receipts
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 16, 2015, 04:47:53 pm
I dson't remember the 150 version having any manned controls apart from the start and finish; they were both receipts
I wasn't able to do the 150k ride so have no idea how many controls it had I'm afraid, but I certainly wasn't referring to it. My post was a hypothetical example and any similarity to any ride, living or dead, is purely coincidental  ;)

Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: RideHard on October 18, 2015, 09:46:01 am
the Chilterns Cycleway into a 300km overnight ride last July. Minimum distance threw it out of the window as a DIY by GPS thanks to the nature of the roads. But it's great riding

I totally agree as do numerous Sportive riders in the region, really Great Riding  :)
My Chiltern Grimpeurs utilise the best the Chilterns Cycleway has to offer, sticking to the roads avoiding farm tracks http://www.chilternsaonb.org/cycleway.html, and then some into 100 ,150, & 200 rides :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 18, 2015, 01:34:05 pm
Whilst the Surrey Hills, South Downs and North Kent grab the (South Eastern) headlines, The Chilterns have been quietly enjoying being one of those 'well kept secrets' enjoyed by 'those in the know'. The best hills in the Chilterns are not quite close enough to London for many, and it doesn't have a Box Hill, and is not near Cycling Weekly's HQ either. But if you live 'North of The River', you know it rocks.

I popped out this morning and there was loadsa' lycra getting sweaty out there in those hills, not at Dorking / Box Hill saturation, but looking good!. A Time trial was happening on the Great Missenden Course too. A couple of weeks back I was riding through Dunsmore and was chatting to a bloke who told me that he drives over from Essex regularly to ride the Chilterns. The number of Chiltern sportives is growing and now, thanks to Ride Hard the number of Audaxes is also increasing. Paul Stewart and Liam Fitzpatrick already have Audaxes in the area, so it's just getting better and better.

Following the threads above I had a look at the Chiltern Cycleway, I see the signs all the time, but hadn't realised it was a loop....must do that as a DIY!

Referring to the earlier discussion on info controls, it is interesting to note that the level of info controls advertised on the Mid Sussex event this weekend exceeded the rate of infos per km of the the Chilterns Pub Crawl.......which tends to suggest that, for an AAA ride, the Chilterns Pub Crawl looks pretty good on that level too. Of course, I'll reserve judgement until I've actually done the infos though! The Mid Sussex is a fantastic event and if you enjoy the views from Ditchling Beacon, you'll get loads like that on the Northern section of the Chilterns Pub Crawl.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Anthony on October 18, 2015, 01:59:20 pm
This looks like a great route and I hope to be there to ride it!

The number of controls does not put me off ... One of my favourite 200s is Paul Stewart's AAAfractuous which has 3 controls + 6 infos and that has never bothered me. Assuming you're stopping at every control you just have to be able to remember a max of 2 Q&As per leg. (This is much aided by the little flags Paul puts in the gps track for each one!) I've ridden that both by gps, and purely on the route sheet, without trouble.

Thanks Tim for another reason to explore the chilterns after the ace 'puffing billy'

I turned the Chilterns Cycleway into a 300km overnight ride last July.

Sounds interesting - I've also seen the signs but never realised it was a loop. Do you have a gps or strava link for your route? Would you recommend it?
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Phil W on October 18, 2015, 05:03:19 pm
Quote from: Anthony link=topic=93270.msg1933446#msg1933446 date
I turned the Chilterns Cycleway into a 300km overnight ride last July.

Sounds interesting - I've also seen the signs but never realised it was a loop. Do you have a gps or strava link for your route? Would you recommend it?

Yes, a cracking little loop. As I live just off its eastern edge, I made it a 304km ride from home.  I did it as an overnight ride, starting around 8pm, caught last orders, diverted to Benson for 24hr McDonalds for breakfast, then a second breakfast mid morning. There are a couple of sections which use farm tracks so my GPX diverts around those.  I used churches to top up water overnight, but during day shops and pubs frequently enough.

I don't use Strava but PM me and I can fire over the GPX.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: RideHard on October 27, 2015, 06:21:00 pm
Yeah over 50+ enteries...

Terry's volunteered to run the Cafe on the Woods Control :thumbsup:
Dan's  volunteered to run the Dunstable Downs Control  :thumbsup:

Last few Brevets left, and weather forecast looking good for the weekend ;)

Chinnor Scenic 100 has  the Cambrian-tea-rooms open this weekend, a must 1/2 way stop-over  :thumbsup:
http://www.chinnorrailway.co.uk/article.php/69/cambrian-tea-room

Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Martin on October 27, 2015, 10:54:27 pm
Yeah over 50+ enteries...

excellent  :thumbsup: a great way to tick off the Nov RRTY / GdSRTY hope it goes well  8)

sadly I'll be doing a steam ride of the steam powered variety instead
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: lemon muncher on October 28, 2015, 07:18:16 pm
Good evening everyone.

I'd like to do this but where's best to stay overnight Saturday night? Nice 'n cheap if possible too please.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on October 28, 2015, 09:58:45 pm
Good evening everyone.

I'd like to do this but where's best to stay overnight Saturday night? Nice 'n cheap if possible too please.

If you're driving then look at Uxbridge, Harrow, Heathrow and Watford. If you are riding from the Hotel to the start then you may want to look more locally (Ruislip, Eastcote, Ickenham, Northwood). There is a Ramada in South Ruislip, The Barn Hotel near Ruislip Station and a Hotel in Eastcote that I can't remember the name of. Ruislip is London commuter belt, so isn't over supplied with hotels but you may find some B&Bs, for example the Bell near Ruislip Gardens has rooms....although I expect they are generally aimed at Railway contractors working at the Central Line depot and I doubt the Bell is very quiet on a Saturday night.
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: RideHard on October 28, 2015, 10:52:41 pm
Have you tried Easy Hotel  ???
http://www.easyhotel.com/hotels/united-kingdom/london-heathrow/
Only 8 miles away  :thumbsup:

Last year someone bivi'd in the Free car park.. they lock it over night  LOL
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on November 05, 2015, 08:20:15 pm
Thank you Tim for a wonderful day.  I was on the Chinnor Scenic 100 ride and thoroughly enjoyed it.

MyBlog (http://bikesandbees.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/the-chinnor-scenic-100.html)
MyPhotos (https://picasaweb.google.com/113386555289222850470/TheChinnorScenic200?authuser=0&feat=directlink)

Here are a couple of photos.

Burnham Beeches
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SBlOZUxk1cc/Vje6Iyx0ULI/AAAAAAAAYzY/5eiM-T68Bvo/s400-Ic42/IMG_4344.JPG)

Name these two riders
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hXJ9IutR330/Vje6ZM0gyuI/AAAAAAAAY0Y/Wy4J9GZmh9I/s400-Ic42/IMG_4361.JPG)
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Huff n Puff on November 06, 2015, 02:01:32 pm
Those photos are a nice record of how nice the day was.

Of course, most on the 200k will have also experienced fog after dark over the last part of the route, which added another dimension to it all. But, from mist, to warm sunshine and then chilly fog after dark, accompanied by some Chiltern classics  all added up to a very memorable ride.

The descent of the Crong and climb of Hastoe were removed from the original version, as the ride was slimmed down to 208k from the 217k originally advertised. This was probably a good thing as I rode some of the penultimate sections very slowly at times in that night fog , struggling to see much as my lights just bounced back in the mist. It got better from Ricky through Ruislip under the streetlamps though.

Well done RH, another cracker!
Title: Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
Post by: Laid Back Rich on November 06, 2015, 04:10:29 pm
I did enjoy the encouragement to consume our own food at the Wendover control

(https://flic.kr/p/ANfaoe)

(https://flic.kr/p/AMfRaP)

I've never yet succeeded in getting photos in a post here so if the above links don't work it's the first two photos here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/87831957@N00/