Author Topic: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months  (Read 10434 times)

30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« on: 14 May, 2010, 12:39:38 pm »
A colleague has just contacted me to say he has been persuaded to join two friends cycling from Edinburgh to London over three days in September (via the Lake District to 'make it interesting'). They will have vehicle support so no need for panniers etc.

He currently cycles to work three times a week (30 mile round trip) on a hybrid.

He's not a cycle nut.

What advice has the panel for him with regards
  i)  training program
  ii) what new bike
  iii) what spec for the new bike ?

He'll be along to register soon.

Many thanks !!
Rust never sleeps

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #1 on: 14 May, 2010, 12:49:21 pm »
1. Join AUK and do a few 200s.
2. A comfortable one.
3. Sporty but not a full-on racer (see 2). Depends on the budget, really. I have one of these and something along the same lines would be very suitable for this type of endeavour. Specialized Roubaix also good.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #2 on: 14 May, 2010, 12:58:06 pm »
Edinburgh to London via the lakes will be about 420 miles, so about 140 miles a day.

Day 1 will be fantastic but lumpy (I'd go along the LEL route through Innerleithen, Eskdalemuir but turn off for Lockerbie and along the B road next to the A74(M) past Gretna.)

Day 2 will be lumpy and quite busy once they're through the Lakes.

Day 3 won't be as lumpy and could be quite towny.

i) As many miles as he can fit in, especially with long rides on consecutive days.

200km Audaxes would be great, building up to doing two 200km rides on consecutive days, or at least a 200 followed by a 100km ride.

I did it the other way round (L to E) in 3 days but spaced as 320km, 220km, 220km ending at North Berwick.

ii) No specific bike recommendations, just have something comfy that he can get used to before he does the ride.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #3 on: 14 May, 2010, 01:00:24 pm »
london to ed is 700km
so over 3 days that is 230km a day
that is probably 12 or 13 hours cycling a day, every day for 3 days

The aim of any training program should probably be "cycle 200k easily"

if he already commutes 90 a week I would suggest
doing 90 miles all in one go at the weekend
then upping the milage to 120 or 130 miles ( over 200km ) take a while to do this, say a month
Do that for a couple of weeks and then do a 200k
Then aim to do a 200k every month, weather permitting

As far as equipment goes, most short distance cyclist don't have a bike that is comfortable enough
Encourage him to get wider tyres.  28mm are just as fast and are a load more comfy
If he has a bd&sm saddle get him to look at alternatives
make sure he has padded bars

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #4 on: 14 May, 2010, 01:07:05 pm »
Encourage him to get wider tyres.  28mm are just as fast and are a load more comfy


Erm, are you sure?  If so, why do racers use 23mm tyres.

BTW, I do this route every year 'cept the other way (London-Edinburgh) in 3 days carrying my own gear, and I happily use 23's - never had any issues.
The sound of one pannier flapping

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #5 on: 14 May, 2010, 02:21:12 pm »
Toontra,
ERM, did you know the Pros are sponsored? It's how they earn a living. If the sponsors give them kit, they usually use it, even if it's not the best thing available.

That's, ERM, bike racing for you.

(look up rolling resistance tests on real road surfaces)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #6 on: 14 May, 2010, 02:24:25 pm »
They do use fatter tyres on Paris-Roubaix and still seem to go pretty quick.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #7 on: 14 May, 2010, 02:30:58 pm »
The main reasons that someone who doesn't cycle a lot gives up are equipment breakdown and hammer on their body.

Going for fatter tyres reduces the wear on the person and the bike, for the penalty of a little increase in rolling resistance. A very very small increase.

Getting fussy over the tyre construction is worthwhile. Paselas roll softer and faster than most of the alternatives for 28mm and up.

As for a new bike - go for something that fits and definitely NOT sometime with very low bars. They should be level with the saddle at least. the cycle-cross type are pretty good.

as for training, carry on with his 3 days a week commute, but extend one of the rides out to 50miles. Try to get a 100-miler in at least once before the trip.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #8 on: 14 May, 2010, 03:33:42 pm »
Toontra,
ERM, did you know the Pros are sponsored? It's how they earn a living. If the sponsors give them kit, they usually use it, even if it's not the best thing available.

That's, ERM, bike racing for you.

(look up rolling resistance tests on real road surfaces)

Well, I've spent 30 (very tedious) minutes googling for such results and can't find any.  If you say the data exists then I'll take your word for it, although I'm pretty certain I saw some test results a few years ago and Pro2 23's (as they were then) came out top.  Surely the extra weight alone makes 25's or 28's less efficient, even if the rolling resistance benefit is minimal.
The sound of one pannier flapping

border-rider

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #9 on: 14 May, 2010, 03:42:46 pm »
Surely the extra weight alone makes 25's or 28's less efficient, even if the rolling resistance benefit is minimal.

Yes - I'd agree with that.  For pros, the benefits of a lighter tyre obviously pay off in sprints, accelerations of the bunch and on hills.

But balanced against that is the fact that slightly fatter tyres (all else being equal - which of course it won't be) will have a lower rolling resistance because of the shape of the contact patch. For we mere mortals, that's likely more relevant.

But even more relevant is that on real UK roads, a fatter and more compliant tyre will minimise the vertical acceleration of the mass of bike and rider; I'm sure you've noticed how much slower you go on hard tyres on a rough road surface.  I tend to run fatter and slightly softer tyres on my audax bike these days...

edit: and as Mr Charly says, a slightly comfier tyre will leave the rider feeling a whole lot less beaten up on days 2 and 3.

inc

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #10 on: 14 May, 2010, 03:44:38 pm »

Well, I've spent 30 (very tedious) minutes googling for such results and can't find any.  

Some stuff here, I think it depends on a few variable as to what size is best Tire Rolling Resistance - Roues Artisanales - Bike tech magasine - handbuilt wheels boutique

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #11 on: 14 May, 2010, 03:46:41 pm »
On a long steady run, the small difference in weight makes little difference (which is why tt wheels are optimized for aero and not so much for weight).

There is a shortage of testing on 'real' road surfaces and the last discussion on here about it turned a bit acrimonious.

Trouble is, what constitutes a 'real' road surface varies so much.

If you are happy on 23mm tyres, then fine, use them. Someone with less time in the saddle will find the ride very uncomfortable. The ability of the rider to 'float' on their bike when needed varies as well. Some people can maintain a good cadence and take weight off the bars and saddle, so that they are floating over the bike and not sitting there like a sack of cement being hammered by the vibration.

Edit: cross posted. Nice link, inc, and interesting to note that in Conti's tests on the 'perfect surface' drum, the fattest tyre has the lowest rolling resistance (and lowest puncture resistance).

Can't remember which bike mag it was, but i believe last year one mag had some riders give their impressions of the 'speed' of a variety of tyres, then compared it to the actual figures. The riders tended to rate 'harsh' tyres at high pressures as 'fast', even when their riding speeds were reduced and measured tests had shown that the tyres weren't the fastest.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

JJ

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #12 on: 14 May, 2010, 03:50:28 pm »
I'd encourage him to get out on runs with his local road club.  With that and a few Audaxes he'll learn more about bikes and riding them than we'll ever tell him on here.

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #13 on: 14 May, 2010, 03:52:44 pm »

Some stuff here, I think it depends on a few variable as to what size is best Tire Rolling Resistance - Roues Artisanales - Bike tech magasine - handbuilt wheels boutique

Yes, I found that, but no actual test results comparing tyre widths that I could see


There is a shortage of testing on 'real' road surfaces and the last discussion on here about it turned a bit acrimonious.


I can tell!  ;D
The sound of one pannier flapping

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #14 on: 14 May, 2010, 03:55:05 pm »
Well, I've spent 30 (very tedious) minutes googling for such results and can't find any.  If you say the data exists then I'll take your word for it

Thank you, and sorry! I can't even find the YACF thread about it now!

My ananogy is rally cars - they run soft squidgy suspension when driven anywhere except tarmac. On a bike, your tyre is 99% of your suspension.

Light/narrow tyres have less weight/air resistance (generally!), but that's not the whole story in getting from A -> B.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #15 on: 14 May, 2010, 03:58:53 pm »
I'm sure you've noticed how much slower you go on hard tyres on a rough road surface.

Oh yes. I was making the same observation to a fellow rider as we rolled along the pockmarked roads of West Kent only last Sunday.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #16 on: 14 May, 2010, 04:04:54 pm »
I'd encourage him to start a new thread asking for advice on everything except tyres.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #17 on: 14 May, 2010, 04:16:22 pm »
I'd encourage him to start a new thread asking for advice on everything except tyres.

eg "Should I wear a helmet for my Edinburgh-London ride?" or "Should I get Campag or Shimano on my new bike? Which is better?"

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #18 on: 14 May, 2010, 04:17:56 pm »
What is quite amazing is that no-one has yet suggested fixed gear.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #19 on: 14 May, 2010, 04:23:09 pm »
Perhaps he should try fixed gear

HTH
Getting there...

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #20 on: 14 May, 2010, 04:25:49 pm »
;D  You're right, of course.
Getting there...

border-rider

Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #21 on: 14 May, 2010, 04:26:28 pm »
Sorry, deleted almost immediately as I was being flippant, but too slow for Clarion ;)

I said

"fixed gear might be better"

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #22 on: 14 May, 2010, 04:29:17 pm »
What is quite amazing is that no-one has yet suggested fixed gear.

I just assumed he would be riding fixed.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #23 on: 14 May, 2010, 04:30:23 pm »
You've got to love these precise, targetted questions, like:

"what bike" ?

:)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: 30 miles to Edinburgh > London in 3 months
« Reply #24 on: 14 May, 2010, 04:31:43 pm »
Do you have any idea of his budget?