Author Topic: "Honking technique"  (Read 8060 times)

"Honking technique"
« on: 05 September, 2008, 11:59:44 pm »
I've never raced or been the member of a cycling club at all.  Everybody I know who cycles I've met through here and through audax. 

Any cycling technique I have is just what I've picked up through experience and watching others on these rides.  My group cycling technique is awful I know - I have been known to tell Eck to shout at me to speed up or slow down if I'm doing it wrong - this results in my reluctance to take the front of the group in case I'm pushing everybody on too much or slowing the pace.

Back to the point:  when honking up a hill (not particularly an audax technique I know, but sometimes its fun to blast up), should I be "throwing" the bike from side-to-side between my hands, or should I be trying to keep the bike straight (90 degrees to the road)?

thanks,  RJMcB

border-rider

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #1 on: 06 September, 2008, 12:04:07 am »
Keep your body as straight as possible - throwing your weight around is a waste of energy.

Wobbling the bike doesn't achieve anything, but if you are really sprinting out of the saddle it can be hard to avoid.

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #2 on: 06 September, 2008, 12:08:02 am »
Keep your body as straight as possible - throwing your weight around is a waste of energy.

Wobbling the bike doesn't achieve anything, but if you are really sprinting out of the saddle it can be hard to avoid.

Thanks, should I have to put effort in to not wobbling, or does this just show bad, inefficient pedaling technique? 

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #3 on: 06 September, 2008, 12:28:23 am »
The classic style was to keep the bike as straight & still as possible.  More power translated that way.
Getting there...

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #4 on: 06 September, 2008, 12:31:01 am »
I rock the bike.  Gets a bit more power but costs more.  Plus it's nice to make my arms do some work!
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
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Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #5 on: 06 September, 2008, 12:33:11 am »
I try to rock the bike slightly, but it is as much as I can do to pedal without falling off laughing.


It is simpler than it looks.

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #6 on: 06 September, 2008, 11:25:48 am »
Edit:  I made a concious effort of analysing my climbing technique on my commute home this evening and I have altered my original post by means of strikethrough (removal) and font colour (addition)

I conform to the practice of keeping the upper body as still as possible when climbing (both in and out of the saddle).  Definitely avoid throwing or rocking the bike from side-to-side as this is inefficient.  As others will state, the natural rhythm includes a slight side-to-side rocking.  The effect I feel is in the forearms, as (I perceive) my shoulders and torso are still.  There is naturally movement from the hips down.  Keeping your body and bike truly vertical is probably a technique track cyclists employ from the starting gate when all their power is transferred into pushing down and pulling up on the cranks and bars. 

Other tips:
don't shift down the gears immediately a hill comes into sight.  Some hills in this country preclude this due to a steep down, a sharp turn then a steep up, however, try to maintain the cadence you were riding prior to the hill and read the road ahead.  Conversely, don't leave it too late or your cadence will drop significantly, momentum will drop off sharply and you will be facing the prospect of having to disengage foot from pedal to prevent the embarrassment of falling over (been there  :-[ )

get out of the saddle just as your pedal stroke comes to the top and starts its downward movement.  Practice and get used to keeping your bike moving forward at this time so that you maintain momentum (and avoid dropping a wheel length if riding in a bunch and gaining the wrath of the rider behind you)

concentrate on your pedalling action:  think circles and imagine driving these circles forward in a straight line up the hill with the power from your body.  Personally I pedal a relatively high cadence when climbing.  It's not anywhere in the same league as the great Tour climbers, but the effect is similar.  It's all about rhythm and maintaining it by changing gear to suit your cadence dictated to by the terrain, your style of riding and your strength.  By pedalling a high cadence, I can visualise myself getting somewhere rather than struggling to turn over a humongous gear.
If you are into that sort of thing, watch some old TdF video/DVD and study the technique of the guys who win !

keep your body weight over the cranks to maximise power in the downward stroke.  Too far forward and you are effectively having to use a pulling action in the pedal stroke.  Try to avoid crouching all over the front of your bike when climbing out of the saddle.  By maintaining an upright position - open shoulders and torso - breathing should also be easier.  I find that I match my breathing to my pedalling rhythm.

If I do want to apply more power, I find myself pulling on the brake hoods and using my whole body, but still trying to maintain that upright torso and as straight-line vertical a bike as possible.

above all, try to relax.

When we ride the Twilight 600 at the end this month, we can have a chat and you can try out your new out-of-the-saddle technique climbing the Sma' Glen, then compare it with your in-the-saddle technique climbing Glen Cochill     ;)  :thumbsup: 



Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #7 on: 06 September, 2008, 12:26:25 pm »
Rocking the bike is easier and generally I've found to do this I have to have my weight forward.
When really powering up the hill I have to have the weight back and then my upper body is super still and all the power is in the legs.  No arm movement whatsoever.  This is a much quicker way to fill my muscles with lactic acid though.  ;D

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #8 on: 06 September, 2008, 12:44:29 pm »
I am new to honking but have found it useful on short hills and on longer ones where you can't keep the front wheel down any other way.

I find it difficult to keep the bike that still, possibly because I'm top heavy.

I notice Postie's technique (on our Wednesday night rides on his 'training bike') is to keep the bike still and stay out of the saddle until we get to the pub.

H

valkyrie

  • Look at the state of your face!
    • West Lothian Clarion
Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #9 on: 06 September, 2008, 09:34:57 pm »
- this results in my reluctance to take the front of the group in case I'm pushing everybody on too much or slowing the pace.

Best wheel-sucking excuse I've heard in a while, Ryan! For group-riding experience I recommend you lead the SQF peleton all the way round the Twilight. It'll do you good.  ;)

Alas, I cannot actually comment on your hill-climbing technique as you're normally some way ahead of me :-[
World Class Excuses for Piss-Poor Performances

eck

  • Gonna ride my bike until I get home...
    • Angus Bike Chain CC
Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #10 on: 07 September, 2008, 07:41:13 am »
above all, try to relax.

RJMcB: this man knows what he's talking about.
Have you ever seen anyone looking so relaxed? ... fin on the Snow Roads, at the summit of Cairn o'Mount, first to the top by a long way, making it look stupidly easy.
Don't you just hate him?  ;D ;)
It's a bit weird, but actually quite wonderful.

gonzo

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #11 on: 07 September, 2008, 07:54:50 am »
Find a hill and time yourself using both. I used to keep the bike perfectly still, but have now discovered that I'm faster with a little rocking. Lance A said to keep the bike still when out the saddle, yet he and every other pro still rocks.

Sprinting, I've found, is considerably better if you really rock the bike from side to side. The legs knock out far more power than the arms and rotating the bike reduces the force that your arm needs to keep it upright (via moment of inertia).

As fin said though. Relax. Although it is harder out of the saddle!


Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #12 on: 07 September, 2008, 08:00:07 am »
I think the hardest bit in all this is getting the right gear for the gradient.
You don't want to be bouncing up the hill as the pedal stroke while either on or out of the saddle is then disjointed.
Too slow a gear and you are grinding and your legs fill with lactic if you try and really push it hard.

The right gear for the right gradient and I find I'm climbing easily and then can mix up a bit my out or on the saddle riding.

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #13 on: 07 September, 2008, 12:02:11 pm »
I think the hardest bit in all this is getting the right gear for the gradient.
You don't want to be bouncing up the hill as the pedal stroke while either on or out of the saddle is then disjointed.
Too slow a gear and you are grinding and your legs fill with lactic if you try and really push it hard.

as I said before
read the road ahead
and choose a gear that will maintain your cadence and rhythm.

I am not qualified as a coach nor have I been personally coached, but my tips are based on years of experience.
I will never the forget the advice given to me when I was a Junior, by a very respected club coach from the ERC, Bill Borland, sadly no longer with us.  He told me my basic riding style was good, but it would be improved hugely if I kept my upper body as still as possible, particularly when out of the saddle and to avoid fighting the bike.
What made this advice even more memorable was that I was a member of the Musselburgh Roads CC and not ERC !

... fin on the Snow Roads, at the summit of Cairn o'Mount, first to the top by a long way, making it look stupidly easy.
eck: that cheque is in the post

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #14 on: 07 September, 2008, 02:51:56 pm »
You've either got to sway the bike from side to side, or keep the bike still and 'dance' (as the french call it) on the pedals.  The key is gear selection... go up a gear (or two) if out of the saddle and then back down when you sit down.

Regardless of the fact that it sends your HR up about 5bpm, and is thus of questionable efficiency, it has its place.... which is why the pros do it.  It brings into play other muscles and gives you a chance to stretch out.

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #15 on: 07 September, 2008, 03:38:08 pm »
Another bonus to out of the saddle work is it enables the blood to flow to your perineum again.  This was mentioned in a C+ mag a couple of issues ago when they did an article on shorts and saddle sores / numbness.

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #16 on: 08 September, 2008, 07:40:15 am »
...brings into play other muscles and gives you a chance to stretch out.

It also lifts one's beer gut off the knees and allows one to breathe better.

H

Jacomus

  • My favourite gender neutral pronoun is comrade
Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #17 on: 08 September, 2008, 11:36:33 am »
Keep your body smooth, but don't try to actively hold any part of yourself or the bike steady. Just let the bike rock gently and naturally, and keep pedaling smoothly.

Nothing more technical than that.
"The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity." Amelia Earhart

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #18 on: 08 September, 2008, 11:56:02 am »


I notice Postie's technique (on our Wednesday night rides on his 'training bike') is to keep the bike still and stay out of the saddle until we get to the pub.



His is not a technique I would recommend as a model. <graunch..creak..click..graunch..creak..click>.

An old friend, unfit after a winter layoff, struggled up a hill on his first Sunday club run of the season, weaving, rocking, heaving, etc. He described this technique
as "frog-on-a-matchbox".

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #19 on: 08 September, 2008, 12:14:42 pm »
<graunch..creak..click..graunch..creak..click>.
I didn't realise you could hear my knees from there..
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #20 on: 09 September, 2008, 08:17:43 pm »
Thanks for all the advice folks, you've given me a lot to think about on the short sharp climb on my commute home.

I'd welcome comments on my riding from Fin et al on rides.  I'd really like to get to be a "better" cyclist - I've been doing this long enough now (2 years of audax), that I should no longer hide behind the older-hands and let them do all the hard work.  I'm getting to be one of the older hands now.  The only way I'll learn better technique is when folk say: yACF is my club - the only time I ride in a group is on audaxes.

To Fin: Sorry, I didn't realise who you were until Sunday up at Newtonmore.  I'm an anti-social so-and-so sometimes - I'd support a move to wearing yACF "Hello, my name is [insert yACF alias here]" to save me the embarassment of remembering people's names.  To all yACFers - I'm the short speccy guy on the blue Aravis and wearing the blue Endura jersey (I nearly always wear that one on longer rides).

RJMcB

valkyrie

  • Look at the state of your face!
    • West Lothian Clarion
Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #21 on: 09 September, 2008, 08:55:14 pm »
To Fin: Sorry, I didn't realise who you were until Sunday up at Newtonmore. 

You can't expect to actually meet Fin on an audax! He does all the same audaxes as you and me, it's just that he's finished and heading for home while we're having lunch at the second control!
World Class Excuses for Piss-Poor Performances

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #22 on: 09 September, 2008, 10:33:48 pm »

You can't expect to actually meet Fin on an audax! He does all the same audaxes as you and me, it's just that he's finished and heading for home while we're having lunch at the second control!

 :-[  I'll make an effort to be more sociable on Friday evening

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #23 on: 09 September, 2008, 10:35:03 pm »
I took the liberty of amending my first reply to RJMcB's request for advice.  See page 1

Re: "Honking technique"
« Reply #24 on: 09 September, 2008, 10:38:59 pm »

To Fin: Sorry, I didn't realise who you were until Sunday up at Newtonmore. 

RJMcB:  No need to apologise.  See you on Friday night ?  If not, then the 600 later in the month.