Author Topic: Grammar that makes you cringe  (Read 856783 times)

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3450 on: 10 January, 2015, 08:52:36 pm »
Title of a BBC website item: Is The Voice ‘building careers’ and not ‘flash in the pans’?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-30749756


Wowbagger

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3451 on: 10 January, 2015, 09:58:06 pm »
The pub we were in today had leaflets lying around advertising Burn's weekend.
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Andrij

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3452 on: 10 January, 2015, 10:01:12 pm »
The pub we were in today had leaflets lying around advertising Burn's weekend.

Who/what do they intend to burn?
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

red marley

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3453 on: 11 January, 2015, 09:01:02 am »
Presumably something of Haggi's.

T42

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3454 on: 11 January, 2015, 09:47:15 am »
A nation of shopkeepers, and they're all grocer's.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3455 on: 12 January, 2015, 01:31:48 pm »
Presumably something of Haggi's.
Is he related to Ogri?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

meddyg

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Re:the verbal noun that makes you cringe
« Reply #3456 on: 23 January, 2015, 03:06:59 pm »
 You've been nounin' when youghtta been verbin'
 
It all started with ‘prioritise’ and ‘hospitalise.’ We were shocked by this wanton  use of English last century, however as time passes we’re ready to monetise, deleverage and neologise in a way which has defeated my spellchecker.

The sports commentators were in there early; I guess that sports journalism sexes up a boring old match by writing ‘ Ikram topscored in the second innings, and (pass the sick bag,please) ' Gerry carded 6 on the 9th hole.'  Then footballers were red and yellow carded. But now it's all gone mad, mostly in the sporting world -  remember in Olympics year how the reporters had to be restrained from saying 'he/she  'medalled' in the final. 'Pedalled' being  fine - in the velodrome - if you can spell it!

Meanwhile in my profession a patient tells me her son ‘ vomited and diarrhoea’d (how to spell that ?) all night.' I suppose we’re used to ‘upping the ante’ whatever that might mean. However  ‘can the dose be upped’ is less comfortable somehow than ‘can I increase the dose? My colleagues don’t get my grammar sensitivity (‘just chill Bob’) But 'vomitting'  &  'inflammed' - are popular nurse and  doctor spelling bloopers  ( oh there’s a huge list). Maybe it’s one of those ‘synaesthesia' problems – people seeing colours when tunes are played in different keys? But I feel sick when I hear these neologisms.....  And now from the admindroids  ' GPs will be 'mandated' to refer on dementia patients, whilst civil servants have been 'tasked with' raising diagnosis rates.

 So now ( and this goes back to last century it’s quite possible to spot  in an American paper ‘they were farewelled at the airport and gifted a rose bowl.’ (Oh, spellcheck allows ‘gifted’ and Garrison Keillor spake it on American Public Radio only last week, so maybe it's OK now, Stateside).’
 
There's been a historic mix up over nouns-as-verbs - consider the use
 of 'summonsed.'  Being summoned to court is not the same as being 'summonsed' -
 presumably being delivered a summons a with legal implications for not
 complying. Being summoned from the garden for supper usually carries only modest penalties for non-compliance.

 There are plenty of  uncontroversial uses of nouns-as-verbs : axing services / braking at  stop signs. And although 'he pedalled to victory' is OK he 'topscored'  is just lazy and innovation for its own sake - and to lend the writer some apparently superior skill in his area.

 He penned a poem – is in common use  ‘she  authored a novel’ - is transatlantic newspeak. And where did ‘redacted’ come from might I ask?   And in the world   of the arts films now ‘première’  in London and then show in the provinces - I think we're getting lost in the distinction between  transitive and intransitive verbs, aren’t we ? I mean  the usherette shows you into the cinema, the projectionist shows the film 

 And where has this craziness come from ? - Across the pond of course! Course we can blame the Americans who not only tolerate but incentivise and now, er, showcase  these (bad) practices.

 So  step foward , Miss Nancy Sinatra who got us all off on the wrong foot in 1969 with ‘These boots were made for walking ‘

You been lying, when you oughtta been truthing !

 
 
 
 


T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3457 on: 23 January, 2015, 03:33:03 pm »
You left out the nastiest -ise of all, Maggie's "privatise".

But let Nancy off the hook: she was being poetically licentious, and the modest shock her grammar inflicted was rather pleasant.  I've never heard it since, either, so I don't think it did any damage.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

rower40

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3458 on: 23 January, 2015, 04:59:51 pm »
There is no noun that cannot be verbed.
Be Naughty; save Santa a trip

Andrij

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3459 on: 23 January, 2015, 05:18:24 pm »
Verbing weirds words.
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

Re:the verbal noun that makes you cringe
« Reply #3460 on: 23 January, 2015, 06:07:01 pm »
We were shocked by this wanton  use of English last century,

How long before someone comes along with proof that every one of those words has been in use since 1653?  ;)
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citoyen

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3461 on: 23 January, 2015, 07:31:30 pm »
Paging* Gareth...


*see what I did there?
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3462 on: 26 January, 2015, 11:34:33 am »
And nouning verbs. "I've got an invite to a party." I rather like nouning verbs and verbing nouns, where it expresses a distinct meaning, so I don't object to "medalled", for instance, because - although it's a bit ugly - there was no previous single word meaning to win a medal. I don't like "an invite" because it means exactly the same as "an invitation", but it seems to be the norm now, so I accept it.

' GPs will be 'mandated' to refer on dementia patients,
This is one I think is bad, because it's not clear what it means. Have GPs been given the authority to refer on dementia patients or told it's mandatory? Even this I expect is clear in the context in which it needs to be understood, ie to GPs, who already know what they are allowed to do and have to do. I hope. (And without that context, "refer on" isn't clear either; does the on mean "refer them to the next person in the chain" or does it mean refer "on the subject of" the patients?) But jargon is like that - clear in the context to those who need to know, not to others.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3463 on: 26 January, 2015, 11:36:47 am »
Kind of related, I see Yiddish (and presumably German) has one word for "l'esprit d'escalier".
http://www.theguardian.com/education/gallery/2015/jan/12/from-mangata-to-kilig-10-untranslatable-words-in-pictures
Number 8.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

meddyg

  • 'You'll have had your tea?'
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3464 on: 26 January, 2015, 10:03:48 pm »
and some overpaid journalist said (nursing his hangover)
'we're always being guilted into diets and not drinking at the start of a New Year.

these goody two-shoes who midwife us from December into January' .... blah blah £££

(it was probably Will Self wot authored it )

mcshroom

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3465 on: 02 February, 2015, 04:46:47 pm »
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

mattc

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Re:the verbal noun that makes you cringe
« Reply #3466 on: 02 February, 2015, 07:30:59 pm »
There are plenty of  uncontroversial uses of nouns-as-verbs : axing services / braking at  stop signs. And although 'he pedalled to victory' is OK he 'topscored'  is just lazy and innovation for its own sake - and to lend the writer some apparently superior skill in his area.

 He penned a poem – is in common use 
<sznip>
 So  step foward , Miss Nancy Sinatra who got us all off on the wrong foot in 1969 with ‘These boots were made for walking ‘

You been lying, when you oughtta been truthing !
:)


I've been trying to justify why "medalling" is a poor piece of verbing, whilst axing etc are good. My best attempt is that some nouns relate more directly to an action; e.g. pen, axe and (bi)cycle.

But medal is a passive object. You dont very often do anything WITH it;  you can award one, make one, collect some. (that ambiguity may also be a mark against "medalling".)

No doubt there are exceptions which prove my "rule" !
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Mr Larrington

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3467 on: 02 February, 2015, 08:10:21 pm »
You could meddle with one.

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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3468 on: 02 February, 2015, 08:22:23 pm »
Medalling is what kids (and a dog) have been doing since (according to wikipedia and imdb) 1969, mostly with criminals dressed up as monsters. I thought you drove a scooby, Matt?
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Andrij

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;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3470 on: 02 February, 2015, 10:37:52 pm »

billplumtree

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3471 on: 05 February, 2015, 10:32:40 am »
Peter May, The Blackhouse, set on the Isle of Lewis:
Quote
Hats, like the burka, were obligatory headwear on Lewis for churchgoing women.

I suspect that doesn't mean quite what you intended it to mean, Mr May.  Either that or Lewis has changed a lot in the last couple of years.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3472 on: 05 February, 2015, 10:52:03 am »
Bloody immigrunts [cont. p94 of UKIP's manifesto]
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hellymedic

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3473 on: 05 February, 2015, 12:00:09 pm »
Peter May, The Blackhouse, set on the Isle of Lewis:
Quote
Hats, like the burka, were obligatory headwear on Lewis for churchgoing women.

I suspect that doesn't mean quite what you intended it to mean, Mr May.  Either that or Lewis has changed a lot in the last couple of years.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

mattc

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #3474 on: 05 February, 2015, 05:57:27 pm »
Poached from the WikipediaFinds thread:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Giraffedata/comprised_of

I think I love this man. Perhaps the key passage:
"
The prevalence argument does very little for me -- I don't see grammar as a majority rule thing. The prevalence would have to be about 99% for me to accept it as valid (though still unfortunate) usage. Bear in mind that a great many people write "could of", yet few people who study the issue argue this is a Wikipedia-worthy way to say "could have".

The dictionary argument also fails to hit the mark, because the function of a dictionary isn't to tell you what is OK to use in any particular writing. It merely tells you what people mean when they do use a word.
"
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles