Author Topic: Grammar that makes you cringe  (Read 856955 times)

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4750 on: 02 October, 2017, 09:04:17 pm »
Oxford Dictionary gives that as a common accepted usage, and who would argue with them?
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4751 on: 02 October, 2017, 10:06:23 pm »
Oxford Dictionary gives that as a common accepted usage, and who would argue with them?

Gives what exactly as a common accepted usage? I can’t think of any definition of enormity that seems applicable to funerals.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4752 on: 02 October, 2017, 10:15:28 pm »
Pickled Onion is right.
Quote
1.1 (in neutral use) large size or scale.
‘I began to get a sense of the enormity of the task’
Quote
Usage
Enormity traditionally means ‘the extreme scale or seriousness of something bad or morally wrong’, as in residents of the town were struggling to deal with the enormity of the crime. Today, however, a more neutral sense as a synonym for hugeness or immensity, as in he soon discovered the enormity of the task, is common. Some people regard this use as wrong, arguing that enormity in its original sense meant ‘a crime’ and should therefore continue to be used only of contexts in which a negative moral judgement is implied. Nevertheless, the sense is now broadly accepted in standard English, although it generally relates to something difficult, such as a task, challenge, or achievement
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/enormity

It seems I've become an old fuddy-duddy hyper-correct cringer (perhaps through overexposure to YACF?) and in addition have to cringe at my own cringe. My onions well and truly pickled!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4753 on: 02 October, 2017, 10:39:28 pm »
Look again at what Welby actually said. Is the large size or scale of the event really something he thinks about at every funeral?
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4754 on: 02 October, 2017, 10:50:20 pm »
He presumably doesn't think of every funeral as a crime or something morally wrong, and I doubt he spends every funeral thinking about having to conduct the Queen's funeral. Obviously not every funeral is large in number of mourners or any other measure of physical scale. I think what he thinks about is the enormous spiritual dimension of death.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4755 on: 02 October, 2017, 10:54:20 pm »
I presume he’s talking about the enormous responsibility of conducting a funeral but it’s clumsily expressed.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4756 on: 02 October, 2017, 10:56:30 pm »
It's certainly clumsy! Enormity is probably a word best avoided for the next decade or however long it takes its meaning to become settled.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4757 on: 03 October, 2017, 08:19:56 am »
Its meaning was settled. Sloppy nitwits have screwed it up.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4758 on: 03 October, 2017, 09:02:20 am »
Its meaning was settled. Sloppy nitwits have screwed it up.

You've long since lost the fight on this one, I'm afraid. No point being a Canute about it. ;)
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4759 on: 03 October, 2017, 09:32:33 am »
Yeah. They used to call Canutism "kicking against the pricks" but I'd prefer to give perpetrators one in the balls.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4760 on: 04 October, 2017, 01:48:34 pm »
Everybody on GBBO last night referring to pastéis de nata as if it were singular.

Mind you, I'm the twat who asks for a panino at the sarnie shop...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4761 on: 04 October, 2017, 02:59:34 pm »
We had 'obligated' a page or two back. I've been into a secondhand (ie charity) bookshop and come out with Bright Lights, Big City. Opening it at random, I was struck by
Quote
Objectively, you know that Elaine is desirable and you feel obligated to desire her.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4762 on: 04 October, 2017, 03:28:12 pm »

Mind you, I'm the twat who asks for a panino at the sarnie shop...

:thumbsup:

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4763 on: 04 October, 2017, 04:03:33 pm »
We had 'obligated' a page or two back. I've been into a secondhand (ie charity) bookshop and come out with Bright Lights, Big City. Opening it at random, I was struck by
Quote
Objectively, you know that Elaine is desirable and you feel obligated to desire her.

American, 1984. It fits.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4764 on: 04 October, 2017, 05:11:44 pm »

Mind you, I'm the twat who asks for a panino at the sarnie shop...

:thumbsup:

I may have reported in this very thread the time I was in Waitrose. There was a sign on the cafe counter apologising for the lack of "sandwiche's, toastie's and panini's". This had been corrected with a finely wielded Sharpie, deleting the apostrophes and the unnecessary final "s" on panini.  This ties in well with the alleged "overheard in Waitrose" which got onto Twitter some time back: "Daddy, does Lego have a silent T, like Merlot?"
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4765 on: 05 October, 2017, 08:44:33 am »
We had 'obligated' a page or two back. I've been into a secondhand (ie charity) bookshop and come out with Bright Lights, Big City. Opening it at random, I was struck by
Quote
Objectively, you know that Elaine is desirable and you feel obligated to desire her.

American, 1984. It fits.
From the same source:
Quote
The matter is still under advisement.
Ugly but, again, it fits.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4766 on: 11 October, 2017, 10:34:10 am »
The NYT enjoins me to "play the crossword".  You don't play a crossword, you ninny, you DO a crossword. And the NYT specimens are pathetic.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4767 on: 11 October, 2017, 10:54:17 am »
I think you complete* a crossword


* whether you complete it or not
Getting there...

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4768 on: 11 October, 2017, 01:22:49 pm »
Less common but yes. Or fill it in - I knew of one train commuter who used to fill in his Times crossword with unutterable* filth then toss the paper casually on the seat and walk out of the compartment, just for the fun of watching other passengers crane at his answers or even dive to pick it up before anyone else.

But play? Nyet.

*in those days, not now
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4769 on: 11 October, 2017, 01:54:59 pm »
I knew of one train commuter who used to fill in his Times crossword with unutterable* filth then toss the paper casually on the seat and walk out of the compartment, just for the fun of watching other passengers crane at his answers or even dive to pick it up before anyone else.

I used to do this with the Evening Standard crossword back when I was a regular commuter. It's a shite crossword so this is a lot more fun than filling it in with the correct answers.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4770 on: 11 October, 2017, 02:49:04 pm »
Everybody on GBBO last night referring to pastéis de nata as if it were singular.

Mind you, I'm the twat who asks for a panino at the sarnie shop...

Seems all right to me, but then I ask for multiples of espressi or cappuccini
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4771 on: 11 October, 2017, 03:03:45 pm »
If you want a panino, you need the music shop.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4772 on: 11 October, 2017, 06:09:18 pm »
People writing tonne when they mean ton, as in it cost a tonne of money. It's a wonder they don't write it cost a tonne (0.984 Imperial long tons) of money.

One of my colleagues does this all the time. If I'm editing his copy, I usually change it to 'loads' or something else to avoid the issue.

I think it's a form of hypercorrection, whereby all units are pedantically expressed in metric even if used figuratively.

See also: hide your light under 36.387 litres, go the whole 8.23 metres, give them 2.54cm and they'll take 1,6km...
I recall wandering around Sri Lanka in the 1980s & noticing that railway stations had the altitude on the main name sign.

In metres, in multiples of 3.05.  :facepalm:

At least it wasn't in multiples of 3.048.

We have height restriction barriers at work which are labelled as "Maximum height 5.334 m". :facepalm:

Doh!   :facepalm:
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4773 on: 14 October, 2017, 08:36:08 pm »
The habit of ending every sentence with an upward intonation as if it were a question is generally reckoned to have come from Australia. Neighbours seems to be suspected as the vector. It could be older and not Australian though.
Quote
On Friday my whole family went for a ride in my brother's new car. My brother bought this new Pontiac last week, and he wanted to take us all for a ride –  you know, to try it out and everything? ... And then, let's see, on Saturday I stayed home all day and helped my mother make my sister's wedding dress. My sister's engaged to be married, you see, and my mother's making this wedding dress for her?
Quote
We saw Doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde. It was real good too. It's all about this guy who mixes up this chemical, like, that he drinks?
 And whenever he drinks this chemical, he changes into this real monster, like? You see him drink this chemical, and then you see his hands start to get all scales all over them, like a reptile and everything, and then you see his face start to change into this real horrible-looking face – with fangs and all? Sticking out of his mouth?
Quote
On Sunday, Bill Stringer came over to my house, and my dad helped rig up this old tire on this long rope? From a tree? There's this steep hill down behind my house, you see – this ravine, like? – and we hung this tire so that what you do is, you take the tire and run a little ways and then lift your feet, and you go swinging way, way out over the ravine and back.
Fourth grade children telling stories in class, NY State, mid-1950s.

Of course it still could have reached Britain from Australian soaps but the origin seems to be before that.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4774 on: 17 October, 2017, 10:44:38 pm »
It is simpler than it looks.