Author Topic: Grammar that makes you cringe  (Read 856686 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5625 on: 27 April, 2020, 11:12:56 am »
Discussion of oil markets:
Quote
negative prices are very unusual but they’re certainly not uncommon. 
It does make sense if you interpret unusual as not normal rather than not frequent, but it still makes me laugh.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5626 on: 27 April, 2020, 08:19:20 pm »
It's also not true (if about oil prices). Oil has never been priced negatively, until last week.

Other things have had negative prices, for e.g., electricity, which is slightly harder to store until prices go up. But that is neither unusual nor uncommon.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5627 on: 28 April, 2020, 09:03:49 am »
Both of those! It was about oil but followed a digression into negative prices for other commodities, specifically electricity and gas as an associated product from crude.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5628 on: 28 April, 2020, 02:30:24 pm »
Instructions like that are one of the most compelling arguments against taking [insert religious text] in any way seriously.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5629 on: 28 April, 2020, 05:38:30 pm »
Just out of curiosity, which religious texts were written by people in languages that they did not really speak?

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5630 on: 28 April, 2020, 07:01:13 pm »
Don't know but formal Hebrew was used for written texts when and where Aramaic was the vernacular.

I think it was not uncommon for scholars to use a 'formal' language for writing and something looser for general chat.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5631 on: 28 April, 2020, 07:19:36 pm »
That's true, but the people who wrote the texts did speak Hebrew, and Aramaic and Hebrew are related (a lot more closely than Chinese and English). Those reading the texts would have had some Hebrew. And when they found that increasing numbers of readers no longer did know Hebrew, they translated them into Greek, which people did speak because it was the lingua franca (sorry) of the Roman Empire at that time.

On the whole, when people who do speak a language write for people who do, but not quite so well, it's likely to be more successful than the instructions mentioned, written by people who don't really speak English for people who do :)

I think it was not uncommon for scholars to use a 'formal' language for writing and something looser for general chat.
Again, kind of. At the time when the New Testament was written (in Greek), it was the custom for scholarly works to be written in older, classical Greek. Sort of like us now writing in Shakespearean English, because it seems posher.

But the point was that the New Testament writers didn't do that (because they were just communicating a message and not trying to sound grand), which confused scholars for a bit. It took archaeology a while to dig up other examples of common Greek, so it seemed like a special language for a time. Obviously there are various texts in classical Greek that have been in libraries and so on since ancient times, so the classical language was known and the common wasn't.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5632 on: 29 April, 2020, 08:51:43 am »
On behalf of T42, I'll nominate almost all of today's Grauniad quick crossword. Many of the clues have been transposed, so for instance the clue for 25 across reads "In repose (2,4)" and the answer is "Tested".
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5633 on: 29 April, 2020, 12:10:57 pm »
A grammar/word usage question if I may. (Better than than a whole new thread.)

If I want to refer to a house the front door of which I just walked through, I would like to be able to say : -
"The house, whose door I just walked through, ..."

But the use of "whose" there is surely wrong, as 'who' indicates a person (and a house clearly isn't a person).

What word could I use ?
Rust never sleeps

ian

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5634 on: 29 April, 2020, 12:18:31 pm »
If you tried to walk through anyone's door it'd probably hurt.

'Whose' doesn't necessary refer to the person, it can refer to any object. But, if that's what you'd done, just write that you've walked through the house doorway.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5635 on: 29 April, 2020, 02:11:30 pm »
You could say 'The house, the door of which I've just walked through' if you really want to avoid 'whose' but there's no need. Or 'The house where I've just walked through the door' informally. Depends what's appropriate for the context.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5636 on: 29 April, 2020, 04:43:37 pm »
On behalf of T42, I'll nominate almost all of today's Grauniad quick crossword. Many of the clues have been transposed, so for instance the clue for 25 across reads "In repose (2,4)" and the answer is "Tested".

After degrade "resolved" into expat I baled out. Thought it was yet another gratuitous slur.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5637 on: 15 May, 2020, 10:19:37 am »
Chiltern Railways: the correct preposition for the verb 'to arrive' is 'at', not 'into'. So, 'we are arriving at Warwick Station', not 'we are arriving into...'.
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5638 on: 15 May, 2020, 11:09:02 am »
Mr. Peter (or possibly Paul) Cornell: you can have partially-literate characters say "like he was flying" but you should write "as if he were flying", lest you be thought less than literate yourself.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5639 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:21:56 pm »
On a similar note, the Chiltern Railways message, "This train is for Solihull/Marylebone/wherever." I keep thinking, "Well, who is against Solihull?" whereas the message is simply missing one word. It should be, "This train is heading for (or bound for) Solihull."
Ooh, it's a long list!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5640 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:58:18 pm »
"Well, who is against Solihull?"

Birmingham, obviously.

I once had a Chiltern announcer get confused and announce that "The plane will shortly be arriving at $station."  In their defence, it was surrounded by thick fog at the time.

Zipperhead

  • The cyclist formerly known as Big Helga
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5641 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:28:54 pm »
Not bad grammar at all, but on the pre-covid tube I often think that announcements of the form "alight here for..." must confuse the hell out of foreign tourists.
Won't somebody think of the hamsters!

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5642 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:52:52 pm »
I may have mentioned this, but not as much as our local railways, who are always on about "boarding or alighting trains". They seem blissfully unaware that they are asking people to set their rolling stock on fire :o ::-)

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5643 on: 15 May, 2020, 02:00:18 pm »
I may have mentioned this, but not as much as our local railways, who are always on about "boarding or alighting trains". They seem blissfully unaware that they are asking people to set their rolling stock on fire :o ::-)

You can light something or alight from something. You can also set something alight but you can't alight anything.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5644 on: 15 May, 2020, 08:17:30 pm »
On a similar note, the Chiltern Railways message, "This train is for Solihull/Marylebone/wherever." I keep thinking, "Well, who is against Solihull?" whereas the message is simply missing one word. It should be, "This train is heading for (or bound for) Solihull."
Ooh, it's a long list!
Oi, watch it! I wouldn't mind so much if people could pronounce it properly. It's so-lee-'hull with a final stressed syllable. And it could be worse, it could be Sutton Coldfield.
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

Kim

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5645 on: 15 May, 2020, 09:46:20 pm »
On a similar note, the Chiltern Railways message, "This train is for Solihull/Marylebone/wherever." I keep thinking, "Well, who is against Solihull?" whereas the message is simply missing one word. It should be, "This train is heading for (or bound for) Solihull."
Ooh, it's a long list!
Oi, watch it! I wouldn't mind so much if people could pronounce it properly. It's so-lee-'hull with a final stressed syllable. And it could be worse, it could be Sutton Coldfield.

AKA The Royal Town of Not Birmingham, Either

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5646 on: 15 May, 2020, 10:42:09 pm »
You can also set something alight but you can't alight anything.
No, but somehow it sounds closer to setting the train on fire than to disembarking from it ;D

Paul

  • L'enfer, c'est les autos.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5647 on: 18 May, 2020, 03:28:22 pm »
Just ordered some tights from Endura. Their confirmation email says:

"Thank you for placing an order with us. We are in the process of getting your order ready for shipment and we will follow up to let you know when it is on its way. PLEASE NOTE OUR CURRENT DELIVERY TIMES OUR 10 WORKING DAYS SO PLEASE BARE WITH US."

 ::-) ;D

I think the stuff in capitals was added by someone who didn't draft the first (non-caps) sentence.

(Luckily, I haven't so completely worn the old ones that I am baring anything)
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5648 on: 18 May, 2020, 04:50:59 pm »
Just ordered some tights from Endura. Their confirmation email says:

"Thank you for placing an order with us. We are in the process of getting your order ready for shipment and we will follow up to let you know when it is on its way. PLEASE NOTE OUR CURRENT DELIVERY TIMES OUR 10 WORKING DAYS SO PLEASE BARE WITH US."

 ::-) ;D

I think the stuff in capitals was added by someone who didn't draft the first (non-caps) sentence.

(Luckily, I haven't so completely worn the old ones that I am baring anything)

The first one is a bit prolix.  Could better be "We are getting your order ready for shipment and we will let you know when it is on its way."
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5649 on: 26 May, 2020, 06:34:32 pm »
I've been editing a document about alleged fraud in an Irish bank. The Irish police are called the Garda or informally the Guards. This document referred to them as the Guardia, which made I  :D.

It's also interesting what bank investigator people say to each other when the clients have gone but they've forgotten to turn the recorder off...
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.