Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: marcusjb on 25 August, 2011, 06:51:53 pm

Title: PBP - Who won?
Post by: marcusjb on 25 August, 2011, 06:51:53 pm
Anyone know the time?

Some of the vedettes I saw in very first group all seem to have been around 44hrs 12mins but I don't know if anyone broke away for the win!

Watching a control for those boys was a real highlight of the ride for me! They are quite something.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: mcshroom on 25 August, 2011, 06:52:56 pm
Everyone who got round won :D
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: marcusjb on 25 August, 2011, 07:22:32 pm
I saw the lead pack control at loudeac (needless to say, me on way out, them on way back) and it was astonishing to watch, almost grotesque as someone is shovelling food in one end of the rider and someone else is busy, hands down shorts, cleaning the other!

I in no way wish to take away from everyone's performance, but there is still this small part of PBP about the actual winner. I just wondered if there was anyone faster than 44hr 12 (I just entered a couple of the numbers of that group to see their times (0009 etc.)
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Simonb on 25 August, 2011, 07:24:53 pm
there is still this small part of PBP about the actual winner

No there isn't. There is just the first rider back. It earns respect, but it's not the same thing.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 25 August, 2011, 07:48:14 pm
there is still this small part of PBP about the actual winner

No there isn't. There is just the first rider back. It earns respect, but it's not the same thing.
Check the helmet sticker. ;)
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: nightrider on 25 August, 2011, 07:57:24 pm
Everyone who took part in the event was a winner.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Justin(e) on 25 August, 2011, 09:55:28 pm
Everyone who took part in the event was a winner.

Yes, of course everyone know that.

But who really won?
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 26 August, 2011, 08:51:21 am
It's difficult to say because some people will have just turned around and headed back to a control to abandon. However, based on my calculations it seems that when I saw the german rider who finished LEL first on his own sometime after Tinteniac, it would seem that he would have been the first rider on the road by a long margin. Naturally he looked fresh and serene tapping out a respectable pace.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: AntLockyer on 26 August, 2011, 10:20:58 am
My friend from the US was the last rider allowed to continue on the course. He completed but well out of time.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: KieronY on 26 August, 2011, 10:40:04 am
According to today's L'Equipe the first riders back were Christophe Bocquet, Marc Védrinelle, André Lalenti and Tony Largeau. They reached Brest at 12.54pm on Monday and SQY by 12.23pm on Tuesday. A total time of 44h 13' and average speed of 27.8 kmh.

This is from a good two page feature on PBP which  includes a picture of Drew Buck and his 1900 vélo sans dérailleur.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: gailb on 26 August, 2011, 12:50:42 pm
The rules clearly state that PBP is not a race so there cannot be a winner also with all the different start grids, first finisher does not mean first overall also don't forget many of the lead riders have support at the controls, where loads of time is lost by unsupported riders.  I think PBP should clearly identify supported riders from unsupported as the latter are the true randoneurs and their achievement is really the one that counts in the world of audax. There is an article on PBP website here that clearly describes their view of racing http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/pbp2011/index2.php?lang=en&cat=presentation&page=competition_ou_rando
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: MSeries on 26 August, 2011, 12:57:42 pm
The rules clearly state that PBP is not a race so there cannot be a winner also with all the different start grids, first finisher does not mean first overall also don't forget many of the lead riders have support at the controls, where loads of time is lost by unsupported riders.  I think PBP should clearly identify supported riders from unsupported as the latter are the true randdoneurs and their achievement is really the one that counts in the world of audax. There is an article on PBP website here that clearly describes their view of racing http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/pbp2011/index2.php?lang=en&cat=presentation&page=competition_ou_rando

the 90 hour group are actually Touristes, the 84s are the proper Randoneurs with the 15km/h minimum speed ;)
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: andrew_s on 26 August, 2011, 01:18:59 pm
the 90 hour group are actually Touristes, the 84s are the proper Randoneurs with the 15km/h minimum speed ;)
Wrong group - 1200km @ 15kph = 80 hours
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: toontra on 26 August, 2011, 01:20:42 pm
Personally I "felt" supported all the way even though I was totally self-sufficient (no bag drops, family, etc.), because of the incredible attitude of the French.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: MSeries on 26 August, 2011, 01:30:25 pm
the 90 hour group are actually Touristes, the 84s are the proper Randoneurs with the 15km/h minimum speed ;)
Wrong group - 1200km @ 15kph = 80 hours
Good call, they call the 84s Randoneurs though, 90s Touristes.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 26 August, 2011, 01:51:35 pm
Being pedantic - it was 1230km - so 80 hours is an average of 15.375kph and 82 hours is the 15kph average.   ::-)
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: marcusjb on 26 August, 2011, 02:34:38 pm
Being pedantic - it was 1230km - so 80 hours is an average of 15.375kph and 82 hours is the 15kph average.   ::-)

Being even more pedantic, the over distance is irrelevant for BRM. The average is based on 1200.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: GrahamG on 26 August, 2011, 07:57:41 pm
That route was over 1240, don't care what the card was saying. All three riders i finished with had clocked 1240+
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 26 August, 2011, 10:00:52 pm
The rules clearly state that PBP is not a race so there cannot be a winner also with all the different start grids, first finisher does not mean first overall also don't forget many of the lead riders have support at the controls, where loads of time is lost by unsupported riders.  I think PBP should clearly identify supported riders from unsupported as the latter are the true randoneurs and their achievement is really the one that counts in the world of audax. There is an article on PBP website here that clearly describes their view of racing http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/pbp2011/index2.php?lang=en&cat=presentation&page=competition_ou_rando

You're absolutely right there. Also they should identify riders who made use of the free stuff offered by unofficial roadside stands because that will have saved them a lot of time as well, not having to queue and pay in shops. You could also identify riders who rode as part of large groups and how much work that they did at the front. Mind you, if you're going to identify riders who were supported then categorise them because some support vehicles were parked a long way off route and that doesn't save a lot of time. I know this because Maidenhead Phil is usually a little bit faster than me and even though I was supported he was a little bit faster than me. (Kudos Phil, you're just a good rider).

Yes, I know I should have ridden unsupported but my girlfriend was quite insistent and the last time I told her to stop ruining everything it made things a tad awkward and uncomfortable so I kind of had to let her some along and do things for me. So as I apparently haven't done PBP, care to tell me what it's like?
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: toontra on 26 August, 2011, 10:09:40 pm
There is an article on PBP website here that clearly describes their view of racing http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/pbp2011/index2.php?lang=en&cat=presentation&page=competition_ou_rando

Oh dear, the group I finished with appear to have broken unwritten rule 3 by indulging in comedy sprinting to the finish from Trappes .  It was fun though   ;D
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: EdinburghFixed on 27 August, 2011, 12:08:55 pm
You're absolutely right there. Also they should identify riders who made use of the free stuff offered by unofficial roadside stands because that will have saved them a lot of time as well, not having to queue and pay in shops. You could also identify riders who rode as part of large groups and how much work that they did at the front.

...

So as I apparently haven't done PBP, care to tell me what it's like?

Calm down dear, it's just a bike ride!

The guy camping next to me did a 52h ride. He had no bag drop and no support. That's pretty good compared with 44h pampered, IMO. It doesn't mean that the supported guys didn't ride 1200km but they sure as hell didn't do the same ride. I spent 26 hours off the bike, not sleeping...
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Simonb on 27 August, 2011, 01:55:52 pm
On Robert Gray's advice, next time I think I'll take a musette and bung in comestibles from the controls and eat them on the move. Won't go down the 100% supported route.

Was talking to a supporter at Dreux who was amazed to hear that British riders don't generally have camper vans. This was after I'd asked where the dortoir was. "The what?", he'd replied. In any case I had no use for it.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: nicknack on 27 August, 2011, 01:59:18 pm
On Robert Gray's advice, next time I think I'll take a musette and bung in comestibles from the controls and eat them on the move. Won't go down the 100% supported route.

S'funny - every time I see that I think of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musette_de_cour) and wonder, "What good would that do?".
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 27 August, 2011, 06:40:14 pm
It doesn't mean that the supported guys didn't ride 1200km but they sure as hell didn't do the same ride. I spent 26 hours off the bike, not sleeping...

Yes and... what's your point?

I did about the same there.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: arvid on 31 August, 2011, 04:09:42 pm
That route was over 1240, don't care what the card was saying. All three riders i finished with had clocked 1240+

I did 1270.0km according to my speedometer. But that includes riding from my camping spot to the start and back(18.0km one way). I also did a 2.0km detour in Sizun to a camping place. I think that up to Loudeac the kms on the card and on my speedometer were exactly the same.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: vorsprung on 31 August, 2011, 04:27:02 pm
Seeing as John Warnock was DNF, who was the fastest Brit?
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: red marley on 31 August, 2011, 04:48:21 pm
Ultan Coyle (team Rapha) did a pretty speedy 54h05. Don't know if that was bettered though.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 31 August, 2011, 04:55:46 pm
I think John Barkman was the fastest Brit, just over 51 hrs.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: zigzag on 31 August, 2011, 04:59:46 pm
John Barkman did a very fast 51h02 time. when i was riding with him he was wearing swedish jersey, so not sure if he rode for britain or sweden.

edit: sorry, duplicate with LWaB
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Wowbagger on 31 August, 2011, 05:05:16 pm
On Robert Gray's advice, next time I think I'll take a musette and bung in comestibles from the controls and eat them on the move. Won't go down the 100% supported route.

S'funny - every time I see that I think of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musette_de_cour) and wonder, "What good would that do?".

I think along the same lines. I'm pretty sure that when I was learning form Schumann's "Album for the Young" or some such, there were small piano pieces known as "Musettes".
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Andydauddwr on 31 August, 2011, 05:13:40 pm
The rules clearly state that PBP is not a race so there cannot be a winner ...

I thought that too, but they clearly used the word 'race' in the post-departure safety announcements.  Semantic I konw, but I've stopped correcting people this time when they ask 'how was your race?'.

Andy
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: zigzag on 31 August, 2011, 05:23:57 pm
i've talked to quite a few guys in 80hr group and many considered it a race.. i know it's not, but it's up to each individual how they see it. the german guy i rode with said "i want to finish as fast as i can".
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 31 August, 2011, 05:29:14 pm
On Robert Gray's advice, next time I think I'll take a musette and bung in comestibles from the controls and eat them on the move. Won't go down the 100% supported route.

S'funny - every time I see that I think of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musette_de_cour) and wonder, "What good would that do?".

I think along the same lines. I'm pretty sure that when I was learning form Schumann's "Album for the Young" or some such, there were small piano pieces known as "Musettes".
And there's this. (http://whatshotinbristol.com/2011/02/16/the-muset-by-ronnie-restaurant-clifton-bristol-review/)
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Salvatore on 31 August, 2011, 05:34:41 pm
This blog  (http://in-the-saddle.com/2011/08/31/crewing-at-paris-brest-paris-2011-the-agony-the-ecstasy-the-falling-asleep/) gives an idea of what it's like at the pointy end of the peloton. A very different PBP to the one I rode. Neither is right or wrong - PBP obviously means very different things to (very) different people.

Quote
Cries of ’10 minutes! 10 minutes!’ went up. It was clear most riders wanted to stop for longer at this control, wanting the chance to change kit, grab more than just a few hurried mouthfuls of food, and in some cases benefit from a brief leg massage. Chris however had been warned to be wary of such truces – agreements would be made, only for a few to slip away early and unnoticed to build a sly lead. To be safe Chris kept his stop as brief as possible, and was back on the road first. 
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: mattc on 31 August, 2011, 06:27:47 pm
A german rider (DNF) at my hotel was proudly telling me of a compatriot in a recumbent that blitzed round before most controls opened. Anyone have the details?
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Salvatore on 31 August, 2011, 06:51:49 pm
A german rider (DNF) at my hotel was proudly telling me of a compatriot in a recumbent that blitzed round before most controls opened. Anyone have the details?

There was a German on the campsite on a yellow fully enclosed recumbent like this (http://www.milan-velomobil.de/index_en.htm) (Christain Ascheberg?) who last year did 1200 km in 24 hours. He started in the 'free' 84-hour group, so had the whole field ahead of him. I jokingly asked him if was going to overtake the whole field, but he took it as a serious question and said he'd done the sums, and it wasn't quite possible. But he had looked into the possibility. I read a brief writeup by him on a German forum, and it didn't quite go to plan, but I see from the results he still finished in 47:42.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: MattH on 31 August, 2011, 07:15:44 pm
This blog  (http://in-the-saddle.com/2011/08/31/crewing-at-paris-brest-paris-2011-the-agony-the-ecstasy-the-falling-asleep/) gives an idea of what it's like at the pointy end of the peloton. A very different PBP to the one I rode. Neither is right or wrong - PBP obviously means very different things to (very) different people.

I looked at the second main picture in that blog (the B&W photo of the back of the rider)

(http://in-the-saddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/IMG_6398.jpg)
And thought "Crikey, someones shot arrows into that poor guy's head and neck!".
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: mattc on 31 August, 2011, 07:27:04 pm
I read a brief writeup by him on a German forum, and it didn't quite go to plan, but I see from the results he still finished in 47:42.
Hmmm. Sounds like the story grew in the telling somewhere...
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Von Broad on 31 August, 2011, 07:30:40 pm
I jokingly asked him if was going to overtake the whole field, but he took it as a serious question and said he'd done the sums, and it wasn't quite possible. But he had looked into the possibility. I read a brief writeup by him on a German forum, and it didn't quite go to plan, but I see from the results he still finished in 47:42.

Aerodynamics. Amazing. One shot past me on the flat between Loudeac and Tinteniac during a night section. It was like being over taken by a cruise missle. You could hear the noise of the air as it was being literally brushed aside. In the hands of a decent rider [certainly doesn't happen by itself], whatever they may lose in the hills, boy they compensate everywhere else.
I also see Hans Wessels was up his normal tricks of 55.30 hrs again.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Frank9755 on 31 August, 2011, 07:38:44 pm
There was a German on the campsite on a yellow fully enclosed recumbent like this (http://www.milan-velomobil.de/index_en.htm) (Christain Ascheberg?) who last year did 1200 km in 24 hours. He started in the 'free' 84-hour group, so had the whole field ahead of him. I jokingly asked him if was going to overtake the whole field, but he took it as a serious question and said he'd done the sums, and it wasn't quite possible. But he had looked into the possibility. I read a brief writeup by him on a German forum, and it didn't quite go to plan, but I see from the results he still finished in 47:42.

His tent was near to ours and we chatted to him a bit and had a good look at his machine.  His single chainring was 72T, with an 11-34 cassette and 26" wheels, giving him a 170" top gear.  He reckons that is not high enough and is intending to put an 84T on his next one.

I asked him how long he would take for a 40km (ie 25 miles) TT and he said about 35 minutes.  Also he breaks 100km/h most times he goes out for a ride. 

The machine is one thing but the skill and courage of the rider are amazing
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Salvatore on 31 August, 2011, 07:45:34 pm
Whatever you do don't say "Doesn't it get a little warm in there?". When a simple 'ja' or 'nein' would have sufficed, I was treated to a 15-minute lecture on the machine's aerodynamic and related ventilational properties. In German. All very interesting, but it was almost dark and I had to be up at 3 the next morning to ride a 1200.

He doesn't like twisty roads, preferring the Bundesstrassen back home. He said he'd also taken it on the Autobahn, and as someone pointed out, he could get away with it because no-one would imagine that it's really a push bike.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: MattH on 31 August, 2011, 07:49:16 pm
So, does it get hot in there?
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Salvatore on 31 August, 2011, 07:54:54 pm
So, does it get hot in there?
Nein.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: zigzag on 31 August, 2011, 08:14:37 pm
He doesn't like twisty roads, preferring the Bundesstassen back home. He said he'd also taken it on the Autobahn, and as someone pointed out, he could get away with it because no-one would imagine that it's really a push bike.

i wonder how they managed to get to controls which had long and twisty fenced entrance/exit with couple of short steep ramps on the way (e.g. loudiac). left their machines further out and walked?
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Ian gaggiaport on 31 August, 2011, 08:58:52 pm
Slightly unrelated.
On my return from Brest at around 7pm while climbing the "Roc", I spotted two 80 hour riders (pink numbers) descending into Suzun.
What were they doing and how could they finish in time?
Any thoughts folks. 
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: arvid on 31 August, 2011, 10:49:02 pm
Aerodynamics. Amazing. One shot past me on the flat between Loudeac and Tinteniac during a night section. It was like being over taken by a cruise missle. You could hear the noise of the air as it was being literally brushed aside. In the hands of a decent rider [certainly doesn't happen by itself], whatever they may lose in the hills, boy they compensate everywhere else.
I also see Hans Wessels was up his normal tricks of 55.30 hrs again.

Hans was sick at Brest and slept for 11 hours or so at Sizun. From what I understand he left at 6am on the way back on tuesday and finished 19 hours after that. His aim was a sub 48 hour time. Ymte had problems with his tendons. This didn't stop him from being off to home only 2 hours after he had finished and packed his tent though.

My camping had a couple of Dutch velomobiles... it looked like a saturday in a car wash the day before the registration.
Title: Re: PBP - Who won?
Post by: Simonb on 31 August, 2011, 11:00:07 pm
John Barkman did a very fast 51h02 time. when i was riding with him he was wearing swedish jersey, so not sure if he rode for britain or sweden.

He's down as riding for the UK. Cracking ride with an organised group.