Author Topic: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?  (Read 4506 times)

Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« on: 13 April, 2022, 05:30:02 pm »
With Shimano going all Di2 on Ultegra and Dura Ace, and SRAM on a similar trajectory, people like me are unimpressed. I like good equipment, and will spend what my ego requires, but going electric is not what I want, for all sorts of (dubious and otherwise) reasons. So I guess I'll be buying Campagnolo from now on. Anyone else of a similar persuasion, or am I a solitary luddite?

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #1 on: 13 April, 2022, 06:34:53 pm »
105 is so good these days that you really don’t need Ultegra or DA anyway.

Hell, for that matter, Tiagra is a long, long way from the agricultural implement it once was.

I have one bike with Ultegra Di2 (6870, iirc) and another with a mix of mechanical 10-speed 105 and Ultegra. I like both and see no need to “upgrade” either any time soon (as long as I can still get the parts).
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #2 on: 13 April, 2022, 06:40:46 pm »
Shimano XT and Deore and Saint also offer plenty of mechanical wire based shifting. Diacompe micro ratchet Bar end shifters are also great.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #3 on: 13 April, 2022, 07:33:27 pm »
I'm so much of a luddite I'm still speccing stuff with 10sp, I like the idea of cross compatability in case of failure.

And I'm another +1 for 105, XT etc
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #4 on: 13 April, 2022, 07:40:13 pm »
I like the idea of cross compatability

This is the main thing putting me off electronic shifting, tbh.  It provides new and even more pointless ways to hamper your ability to mix and match drivetrain components in ways the manufacturer wasn't interested in, and I'm avoiding the likes of Di2 on that basis.

I'm a bit more open to things like the Archer system that properly exploit the advantages of electronic shifting, though I don't currently have a need for it.

Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #5 on: 13 April, 2022, 07:44:49 pm »
I'm so much of a luddite I'm still speccing stuff with 10sp, I like the idea of cross compatability in case of failure.

And I'm another +1 for 105, XT etc
I'm still on Shimano 9 speed (cassettes), which work perfectly with Campagnolo 10 shifters
and derailleurs. :thumbsup:


* There was a chap on our most recent Sunday ride whom I noticed was in a very unusual gear
combination (small chainring/smallest sprocket) on his electrically operated Sram bike. It turned
out that the battery in his rear derailleur was very low (hence the gear gear combination).

We stopped by the roadside whilst he conveniently opened a flap on the rear derailleur and removed the spent battery (about half the size of a typical matchbox) and replaced it with a fully-charged one.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #6 on: 13 April, 2022, 09:42:08 pm »


This is the main thing putting me off electronic shifting, tbh.  It provides new and even more pointless ways to hamper your ability to mix and match drivetrain components in ways the manufacturer wasn't interested in, and I'm avoiding the likes of Di2 on that basis.

I kinda disagree. My bike has spent the last 3 years with a mix of Dura ace, ultegra, and XT. Because of Di2 I can have XT derailleurs, and Dura-ace, Ultegra, or as I am currently installing, GRX. By end of tomorrow I hope to have Dura-ace, GRX, and XT on the bike.

The only main incompatibility is I can't have a road/GRX front mech, with an xt rear mech, or visa versa.

I don't know how the 12 speed move will effect this however.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #7 on: 13 April, 2022, 10:25:52 pm »
I'm still on Shimano 9 speed (cassettes), which work perfectly with Campagnolo 10 shifters
I'm also still on 9-speed, with a smattering of 10-speed Ergos. Mostly Campag but some Shimano and a bit of Shimergo. I just can't be bothered with new bikes or upgrading, when stuff works. Got a couple of bikes with friction shifting, and that's not bad either ;D

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #8 on: 14 April, 2022, 07:49:42 am »
And a third on 9 speed. Does that make 27? Also, I've got Sora on one bike, while the other has a mixture of Tiagra and 105. In both cases, what affects shift quality is how well I've indexed the gears and whether I've kept the cables clean etc.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #9 on: 14 April, 2022, 09:11:45 am »
To go back to the original question, I think that mechanical groupsets will be with us for a long time yet, at the cheaper end of the market. Trouble is, Campag doesn’t really make cheap groupsets and the market for a high end mechanical groups is diminishing all the time. They’ll probably continue with their top of the range mechanical groupsets for a while, even if only for emotional reasons.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Beardy

  • Shedist
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #10 on: 14 April, 2022, 10:18:24 am »
I’m on a 14 speed rear wheel which kind of negates the need for chainring shenanigans. I’ve investigated electric shift for the rear, mainly so I can dump the twist grip, but I’m not drawn to any of the solutions currently offered and the twist grip isn’t really that bad.
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #11 on: 14 April, 2022, 11:16:29 am »
Campag doesn’t really make cheap groupsets

There's the rub - if you're feeling compelled to choose Campagnolo because you're not keen on Di2, that very much comes under #firstworldproblems
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #12 on: 14 April, 2022, 11:34:17 am »
Given my ability to have/create unknown and impossible breakdowns with electronic bike equipment (lights, computers, gps etc) there is absolutely no way I could see an acceptable mzjo-Di2 interface happening. If it gets to the stage where all shifting is electronic I will be on ss or SA 3 speed!

I like the idea of cross compatability

This is the main thing putting me off electronic shifting, tbh.  It provides new and even more pointless ways to hamper your ability to mix and match drivetrain components in ways the manufacturer wasn't interested in, and I'm avoiding the likes of Di2 on that basis.

I'm a bit more open to things like the Archer system that properly exploit the advantages of electronic shifting, though I don't currently have a need for it.

Given my habit of recycling clubmates' scrap this would stop me as well. Very little chance of picking up reuseable scrap!

Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #13 on: 15 April, 2022, 11:36:21 am »
Surely cross-compatibility between different manufacturers groupsets went out with 6 speed freewheels and down tube friction gear levers. Sure, you can make some things work together with a bit of ingenuity and some widgets but not something the average cyclist would tackle. But I guess this forum isn’t made up of average cyclists.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #14 on: 15 April, 2022, 11:39:03 am »
I’m on a 14 speed rear wheel which kind of negates the need for chainring shenanigans. I’ve investigated electric shift for the rear, mainly so I can dump the twist grip, but I’m not drawn to any of the solutions currently offered and the twist grip isn’t really that bad.

A bit OT but are you referring to electronic shifting for Rohloff hubs, which if I understand correctly is only available for Rohloff equipped E-bikes, or is this something else?
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #15 on: 15 April, 2022, 11:44:56 am »
Surely cross-compatibility between different manufacturers groupsets went out with 6 speed freewheels and down tube friction gear levers. Sure, you can make some things work together with a bit of ingenuity and some widgets but not something the average cyclist would tackle. But I guess this forum isn’t made up of average cyclists.

I was thinking more about sensible gears for touring bikes and particularly recumbents.  Typically that's a road triple chainset and mountain bike cassette to get sufficient range, with whatever else needed to make it work properly.  Obviously derailleurs and shifters have to come from the same manufacturer to avoid the need for widgets, but Di2 completely scuppers that sort of thing, not least because AIUI it can't shift a triple.

Average cyclists ride whatever's on the bike that the bike shop sells them.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #16 on: 15 April, 2022, 12:11:06 pm »
I expect that the reason Di2 can't shift a triple is because triples are unfashionable. At some point in the next decade or two they will come back into fashion and then there will be a triple Di2.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #17 on: 15 April, 2022, 07:30:04 pm »
I expect that the reason Di2 can't shift a triple is because triples are unfashionable. At some point in the next decade or two they will come back into fashion and then there will be a triple Di2.

And you can guarantee it won't be called Di3.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #18 on: 15 April, 2022, 11:40:37 pm »
Surely cross-compatibility between different manufacturers groupsets went out with 6 speed freewheels and down tube friction gear levers. Sure, you can make some things work together with a bit of ingenuity and some widgets but not something the average cyclist would tackle. But I guess this forum isn’t made up of average cyclists.

I was thinking more about sensible gears for touring bikes and particularly recumbents.  Typically that's a road triple chainset and mountain bike cassette to get sufficient range, with whatever else needed to make it work properly.  Obviously derailleurs and shifters have to come from the same manufacturer to avoid the need for widgets, but Di2 completely scuppers that sort of thing, not least because AIUI it can't shift a triple.

Average cyclists ride whatever's on the bike that the bike shop sells them.

What gears do you need for touring? Can a triple get better than my 28:40 lowest to my 38:11 highest? And if it can go higher, do we really need it? 90rpm in top gear is 40kph.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #19 on: 16 April, 2022, 06:23:03 am »
I’ve got Ultegra Di2 on 3 bikes, both 6800 and 8000 (which are cross-compatible), SRAM Red Etap on another, and various combinations of 105 and Ultegra on the others (yes, I have too many bikes!). The odd one out is my Holdsworth with Campagnolo Athena 3x11. Now that’s agricultural, but it looks nice. The gear range (50-39-30, 11-29) is far inferior to my main Di2 bike (50-34, 11-42).

Of the mechanical groupsets, by far my favourite is Ultegra 6600. It’s a bit limited in gear range (max 28 at the back), but the shifting is sublime. 105 7000 runs it very close, though.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #20 on: 16 April, 2022, 08:44:42 am »
I expect that the reason Di2 can't shift a triple is because triples are unfashionable. At some point in the next decade or two they will come back into fashion and then there will be a triple Di2.

And you can guarantee it won't be called Di3.
Pretty sure the one-by already isn't called Di1.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Genosse Brymbo

  • Ostalgist
Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #21 on: 22 April, 2022, 12:47:53 pm »
There's scope for a contrary thread titled "Campagnolo marketing - a gift to Shimano?".  I have two 105-equipped bikes - a 9spd triple of washing line vintage and a more recent 11spd double with hydraulic discs.  Both work well, and the 11spd shifting and hydraulic braking is gorgeous.

I also have a 10sp Campag Veloce double.  It's my audax bike and I love it, especially the drop-three-cogs r.h. thumb button and the l.h. micro-ratchet.  From what I've read on here it would appear the Campag l.h. has become indexed in all but ridiculously high price groupsets.  In fact, reasonably priced Campag groupsets may not be available at all; however, I've not researched this.  I am anticipating a move to 105 or bar-end friction shifting when the Veloce drivetrain expires.
The present is a foreign country: they do things differently here.

Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #22 on: 22 April, 2022, 07:25:48 pm »
I’m scratching my head whether to buy some mechanical Ultegra 8000 bits now before they become unobtainable. My best bike is overdue for an upgrade (still on old Ultegra 6600) and I don’t want to go electronic even if I could afford it (which I can’t).

Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #23 on: 22 April, 2022, 07:30:52 pm »
There's scope for a contrary thread titled "Campagnolo marketing - a gift to Shimano?".  I have two 105-equipped bikes - a 9spd triple of washing line vintage and a more recent 11spd double with hydraulic discs.  Both work well, and the 11spd shifting and hydraulic braking is gorgeous.

I also have a 10sp Campag Veloce double.  It's my audax bike and I love it, especially the drop-three-cogs r.h. thumb button and the l.h. micro-ratchet.  From what I've read on here it would appear the Campag l.h. has become indexed in all but ridiculously high price groupsets.  In fact, reasonably priced Campag groupsets may not be available at all; however, I've not researched this.  I am anticipating a move to 105 or bar-end friction shifting when the Veloce drivetrain expires.

I was thinking similar, my sweet spot was Athena 9sp triple with the 3-cog rear/micro front mechs. Once they’d been changed (for groupsets I would afford), plus the lack of hydraulic braking, led me to go completely Shimano.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Di2 a gift to Campagnolo?
« Reply #24 on: 22 April, 2022, 08:12:37 pm »
I see the OP hasn’t been back. Fire and forget.