Author Topic: Women and ultra-challenge endurance sports  (Read 5284 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Women and ultra-challenge endurance sports
« Reply #25 on: 22 August, 2018, 05:03:33 pm »

Pay
<snip useful graphs>


I discovered my colleagues were paid 33% more than me for the same work, with the same experience. I was not a happy bunny.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

arabella

  • عربللا
  • onwendeð wyrda gesceaft weoruld under heofonum
Re: Women and ultra-challenge endurance sports
« Reply #26 on: 22 August, 2018, 07:57:36 pm »
For me it's down to priorities.
When the little dears reliably spent every 2nd weekend elsewhere then I could audax every 2nd weekend.  When that stopt then either I had to rely on unreliable ex or preferably reliable other people to ensure I could get away, so I needed to ensure I didn't overuse reliable other people.
For the last 7 years one or other dear has been doing exams in May/June and I wouldn't countenance being away in the weekend before an exam.  So that's 7 years of having to do any riding at other times of year (eg school summer holidays, school easter holidays etc).

I doubt I'm the only person in this position.  I'd be interested in how many blokes-with-children feel similarly constrained.

Nor can I justify massive expenditure on bikes as there's at least 7 more years of uni to flow under the bridge (over the next 4 years, as they start to double up).
Again, how does this compare to blokes-with-children?

So little dears mean less time to go cycling and less money to spend on cycling.  But I'm happy with the trade-off.

And training?  That means catching a train, doesn't it?  I suppose I could, as well as the 1-hour round trip commute, go out again in the evening but after having planned/shopped for/cooked the evening meal and done any other house-related activities (confession, little dears aren't as well trained as I would like) I somehow haven't acquired any desire to make further efforts.
Any fool can admire a mountain.  It takes real discernment to appreciate the fens.

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Women and ultra-challenge endurance sports
« Reply #27 on: 22 August, 2018, 11:12:12 pm »
If the major factor is the duration of long-distance events, then comparatively short events like the marathon should have much closer to equal numbers of women and men. The Boston Marathon numbers reflect that. Similarly, there should be roughly the same number of women racing bikes (most bike races generally being only an hour or two long) as men but the numbers aren't even close.

If the major factor is socialised behaviour against sweaty exercise from an early age, why are there so many female marathon runners?
The issue is the hostility of the prevailing road conditions, the slower you ride, the more vehicles will pass you on your journey and therefore the more close passes you will suffer. Women are on average slower than men. certainly in my club as you move up to the faster groups the proportion of females riders falls, and this may be another issue with the gender imbalance in audax. It is not easy and the time limits will affect women more than men.
Yes I know there are women who are significantly faster than me, but not nearly as many as there are men.

My wife would never consider riding on the roads, running does not have the same problem.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Women and ultra-challenge endurance sports
« Reply #28 on: 22 August, 2018, 11:27:40 pm »
....  When that stopt then either I had to rely on unreliable ex ....

I doubt I'm the only person in this position.  I'd be interested in how many blokes-with-children feel similarly constrained.


looks to me like you are raising the children without there father, so doesn't that make the question, how many single fathers are similarly constrained, and I would expect the answer is all of them?

My wife and I both have two weekends away a year, mine are for cycling 600s or 1000s all other rides I make sure I am only missing on saturday or sunday never both. But my children are mid teens now, I wouldn't have considered audaxing before they were 10

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Women and ultra-challenge endurance sports
« Reply #29 on: 22 August, 2018, 11:30:07 pm »
Given the hardware I see being ridden around Richmond Park by plenty of women, cost isn't a major restriction.

I think the key thing here is that everyone should stop assuming their anecdotal experiences have bearing on a wider situation, which is squarely put into context by crinklylion's post above.
especially as richmond park draws in everyone from miles around, still i bet there are more men there with expensive bikes than women, just because some women can afford expensive bikes it doesn't mean it is not a factor for the many others.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Women and ultra-challenge endurance sports
« Reply #30 on: 22 August, 2018, 11:49:31 pm »
The issue is the hostility of the prevailing road conditions [...] My wife would never consider riding on the roads, running does not have the same problem.
I'd say an issue, rather than the issue, but I suspect that you're probably right that it's a factor for some and part of that is, IMO, the way that we socialise children about risk differently according to gender.  I found the following article interesting when I was thinking about the issue of low levels of participation in cycling generally (rather than specifically endurance events) by women in a previous discussion elsewhere - that time we were discussion cycling generally, but as Kim pointed out earlier in this thread
None of which makes women any less capable of $arbitrary_sporty_thing.  It's just that when you're drawing from a smaller pool, you're likely to see fewer of them.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/15/well/family/talking-to-boys-the-way-we-talk-to-girls.html

Quote
Just as women’s studies classes have long examined the ways that gendered language undermines women and girls, a growing body of research shows that stereotypical messages are similarly damaging to boys.

Quote
What’s more, a 2017 study led by Emory University researchers discovered, among other things, that fathers also sing and smile more to their daughters, and they use language that is more “analytical” and that acknowledges their sadness far more than they do with their sons. The words they use with sons are more focused on achievement — such as “win” and “proud.”

Quote
After visits to the emergency room for accidental injuries, another study found, parents of both genders talk differently to sons than they do to daughters. They are nearly four times more likely to tell girls than boys to be more careful if undertaking the same activity again. The same study cited earlier research which found that parents of both genders used “directives” when teaching their 2- to 4-year-old sons how to climb down a playground pole but offered extensive “explanations” to daughters.

Quote
Why do we limit the emotional vocabulary of boys?

We tell ourselves we are preparing our sons to fight (literally and figuratively), to compete in a world and economy that’s brutish and callous. The sooner we can groom them for this dystopian future, the better off they’ll be. But the Harvard psychologist Susan David insists the opposite is true: “Research shows that people who suppress emotions have lower-level resilience and emotional health.”

And yes, I am perfectly aware that the point of that article is that this gender-differentiated approach to raising children damages boys -

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Women and ultra-challenge endurance sports
« Reply #31 on: 23 August, 2018, 12:21:50 am »
I also got pointed at the following blog - again, mainly discussing utility rather than sport/endurance/challenge cycling but not entirely irrelevant.
https://bangingonaboutbikes.wordpress.com/2018/02/18/so-why-dont-more-women-cycle/
Quote
Representation matters.

It’s important to understand that representation matters a lot. People do what they see. Representation tells people “you are welcome!”. It tells people “you can do this too!”. It tells people, “this is possible for you!”. Representation gives children role models. It gives us inspiration. So when the popular representation of cycling is of white men in lycra, what does that tell every other potential cyclist out there who doesn’t fit the mould?

What does the culture of cycling athletes tell women? (That you aren’t worth as much as men.) What does the culture of popular cycling magazines tell women? (That your presence is a token one.)

In Australia, where the cycling demographic seems to be similar to the UK, one study surmised that in order to do more to encourage women to cycle, “campaigns [should] enable women to experience cycling in an environment that both is, and is perceived to be, safe and supportive” (Garrard, 2003).

But what does this look like in reality?

It looks like outreach! It looks like a proactive effort amongst formal and informal cycling clubs, groups, and initiatives of all kinds reaching out to underrepresented groups (women, old folks, BAME riders, etc.).

Signal to your members and followers that you are actively encouraging more women to join in. Ask what the group could do to make rides and meet-ups more welcoming! Be prepared to receive some (hopefully constructive) criticism, and be prepared to act on it! Be prepared to lose some members to the PC Gone Mad brigade. Declare zero-tolerance on sexism and other isms. Offer to support events or rides organised by and for women. Diversify! (Diversity is good!)
(their bolds)

Re: Women and ultra-challenge endurance sports
« Reply #32 on: 23 August, 2018, 01:50:59 pm »
<pointless anecdote alert>
The kayak club I've recently joined probably has a 40/60 women/men ratio. In the 'race' squad, it is probably closer to 50/50. Kit is similar in cost to bikes, but you can take part with minimal cost, as the club provides kit.

Running - as previously observed, it is popular with both women and men.
Ditto swimming

So it is really cycling that has an issue.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Women and ultra-challenge endurance sports
« Reply #33 on: 23 August, 2018, 03:31:34 pm »
looks to me like you are raising the children without there father, so doesn't that make the question, how many single fathers are similarly constrained, and I would expect the answer is all of them?
Not really - in the context of the purple guff question at the start of the thread:
[...]why do more men than women participate in ultra-distance activities?  You might say that this states the obvious, and that women cyclists have interests and motivation that differ from those of male cyclists and that it is unlikely that addressing these issues will in some way encourage more women to participate in ultra-cycling or indeed ultra-challenges in any sporting endeavor.
[...]
All in all, I proffer the truth that women can do whatever it is they want to do, they just have to decide that they want to do it.

Why do fewer women indulge in borderline-self-harm sporting pursuits?  Well, one factor is that women are likely to have more caring responsibilities, typically have fewer leisure hours available and are more likely to be the single parents.  Is that the fault of other, male, endurance athletes (or common or garden audaxers, or AUK)?  No, of course not; clearly there's wider societal factors at play there.  But relatively low participation by women is a bit more complex than "they just have to decide they want to do it".