What would it be like if there were no cars?

[ed_o_brain]

I noticed how much quieter it was here over Easter, especially when I was out walking on Sunday and Monday. It's hard to understand just how much affects our lives, in positive and negative ways.

I have been trying to imagine what it would be like, if there were fewer cars. There would still be buses, delivery trucks, trains. There would still be cars for transporting disabled people and emergency services, but not for the general public.

I think the all that extra peace and extra space would make the biggest difference.

Maybe we wouldn't have so many roads as we know them. We probably woud have more mud and cobbles. That means more of us would have bikes with wider tyres and suspension.

What else would be different?

How would people cope transporting their own goods? How would families see each other? How would the economy change?

[border-rider]

Maybe we wouldn't have so many roads as we know them. We probably woud have more mud and cobbles.

Just like West Berkshire, then

[TheLurker]

What would it be like if there were no cars?

Ummm, you mean like Sept 2000 when the tanker drivers managed to achieve overnight what decades of half-arsed guvmint traffic "planning" had failed to achieve? 

I seem to remember it was delightful.  Of course I didn't need a car to get to and from work...

[clarion]

Life without cars?  So many changes.  I think back to the big snowfall not so long ago.  People were out on the streets.  It was quiet.  People could talk.  They weren't divided by antisocial folk steaming at 30mph+ through their town. 

I was also reflecting the other day that, without cars, we wouldn't need such wide streets, with the wind whipping down multiple lanes.  And, in their turn, the widening of streets led to the possibility of skyscrapers blotting out our light.

So, without cars, we might have less well kept roads, but narrower, more interesting, and with fewer hedges/old buildings ripped out for the sake of the fascist Autobahn.

The hill where I used to go sledging as a kid would still be there, instead of being quarried completely away, crushed, and used for roadbuilding.

We wouldn't have such a culture of dispersion.  Most likely, we'd still be living close to our parents and victims of the ups and downs of the particular industry our community was wedded to, rather than the movements of the entire economy.

Interesting thought experiment.

[pcolbeck]

Lots of horse shit on the roads that's what it would be like

[clarion]

Yes - that occurred to me as well.  One of the worst cycling moments I ever had, and one I tend to forget when discussing  'offs' (probably blanked it because of the trauma), was in York, when, coming down into Whipmawhopmagate, I saw a large pile of horse leavings from one of the carriage tours.  I couldn't avoid it, so I braced myself to go through it.  Unfortunately, this being February, it was frozen, and it acted as a kind of ramp to an Evel Knievel style leap, though I landed with very little grace or style, having cleared no double decker buses and no canyons...

[nuttycyclist]

It's not just horse poo.   Look at the little country lanes and how they are covered in gravel and other loose surfaces.  Without cars to sweep the roads clean they'll all be like that.

I was cycling home in the dark on Saturday and suddenly found the front wheel going right and the back wheel going left thanks to me being on the loose stuff between the two clear tracks that car tyres had swept on the country lane.  Clean shorts moment.

[clarion]

Hmm yes, but the gravel is created by the cars wearing at the road surface, and they don't just magic it out of the way; they sweep it into neat heaps just where you wish to make that turn...

[nuttycyclist]

Most of the stuff I encounter (not being a London based rider) is the stuff washed onto the road from the fields etc by the rain.

The gravel I hit on Saturday was on a recently re-surfaced road, and was the loose dusty stuff that builds up - not from tyre wear.   (It's the same as the garden path always seems to get a covering and need sweeping - no cars in the garden).

[border-rider]

There are loads of tiny lanes round here that rarely see a car.  They get broken up by weather and by plant growth, and come to resemble green lanes eventually. 

[iakobski]

There's a road on my commute with very little traffic, I see maybe two or three cars a week. Last year the road was closed for a month. Within a couple of weeks it was a nightmare: covered in fallen branches, stones washed out from the verges, silt from floodwater. Normally the (few) cars would brush all that out of the road.

[TheLurker]

The first generation of cyclists managed very well without cars to clear the roads of debris and the roads were a lot poorer then than now. I'm sure we'd cope.  It'd certainly be nice to given the opportunity.

[MikeFromLFE]

My recollection of cycling history tells me that it was the CTC that first campaigned for roads outside of towns to be metalled, so as to make things easier for cyclists. This had the unintended consequence of making them more suitable for motors. This has in turn led to the widespread dependence of our culture on the great god car.
When the discussion turns to car/anti-car it is exactly what this thread is highlighting that concerns me - the fact that because of the isolation from community of the driver and the detachement from environment, the world as we now know it is a much worse place - it's a place where kids aren't allowed to play in their streets, where villages are like ghost towns for much of the week, and where many people won't ride a bike for fear of traffic.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

There would still be cars for transporting disabled people and emergency services, but not for the general public.

That is something which winds me up a little to be honest. There is the Motability scheme, which is fine and noble - ie disabled people pay for a discounted car, and get the tax knocked off (they don't get it for free). Which is good.
However, the tone of it seems to be "Society simply must get you a car - you simply cannot cope without it. Horror of horrors - being without a car - the rest of society have a car".
Sorry, I'm not putting this very clearly. I own a car by the way, and enjoy it.

And don't get me wrong - I'm not speaking against the Motability scheme, just the concept that simply everyone in society must have a car, and that the disadvantaged are helped in doing that.

[Jezza]

I was out for five hours on Easter Monday round the lanes of Suffolk. Saw seven cars in total (three of them following each other in a line), not counting the traffic jam on the A12 beneath me as I rode over a bridge. It's quite nice really.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

I think Ed hits a lot of nails on the head. As I say, I have a car, and enjoy it.
We have evolved a system of transportation - the car and the metalled road system - which will take you from your front door, or even from an interior garage or car park in the dry, to your work every day, or across Europe to the door of your destination. This is remarkably comfortable and convenient.
However, everything then gets shaped around this - people expect every destination to be accessible by car to the entrance, and every destination provides car parking facilities - look at hotel websites, or tourist attractions etc. they always discuss where to park the car.

Now, let's consider the car. It IS copnvenient, and cheaper than trains. Lets say you have a family of four or five - you're not going to take them anywhere on a train over a Bank Holiday. The cost would cripple you.
But maybe what we need is car transport over long(ish) distances, and not the expectation that you can take it that last half mile.  Let's start by exploring Park and Rides.
Also let's think of London - why is the very central area still not pedestrianised?

[teethgrinder]

Now, let's consider the car. It IS copnvenient, and cheaper than trains. Lets say you have a family of four or five - you're not going to take them anywhere on a train over a Bank Holiday. The cost would cripple you.

I don't have a car or driving lisence. So if I want to take a family on holiday I can use public transport. Or I could spend a lot of time and money taking driving lessons, then spend even more money buying a car and putting it on the road.
You can get cheap train deals and railcards to cut down costs. Especially if you book in advance.
As a one off, or even for several trips, I can't see how a car is more convenient than catching a train. Much more expensive too. Plus I don't have the hassle of keping and maintainig a car. Allthough I could hire a car instead of owning one which would cut down costs.
But if you allready have a car and driving lisence...

I remeber the World Cup in 2002. I was in Devon and riding in the sunshine with no cars on the road when a match was on was great. I'd love it if all the cars dissappeared. We can use roadsweepers to clear the roads of muck. Just as we allready do.

[Pingu]

So, remove the cars & get a couple of street sweepers 

[iakobski]

That is something which winds me up a little to be honest. There is the Motability scheme, which is fine and noble - ie disabled people pay for a discounted car, and get the tax knocked off (they don't get it for free). Which is good.
However, the tone of it seems to be "Society simply must get you a car - you simply cannot cope without it. Horror of horrors - being without a car - the rest of society have a car".

Totally agree with you.

My MiL has been on this scheme for years: previously she had old cars, and TBF needed to transport 3 children. Now she lives on her own, in town, and gets a brand new car every three years. She uses the car to drive to Sainsbury's - a 30+ mile round trip, twice a week. Because she likes Sainsbury's and doesn't like the two supermarkets within a short walk of her front door. She also drives to the country park twice a day to walk her dog, again because she doesn't like the park on the road she lives on.

It must be costing her a fortune, but in her mind the car is "free" as it's paid direct from DLA, and she considers her usage essential.

I can understand some people might need a car to not be isolated if they are particularly disabled/live remotely, but for the vast majority taxis + public transport would be cheaper and more effective.

[vorsprung]

Now, let's consider the car. It IS convenient, and cheaper than trains. Lets say you have a family of four or five - you're not going to take them anywhere on a train over a Bank Holiday. The cost would cripple you.

You aren't going to take them anywhere in a car on a Bank Holiday either.  The traffic is always horrendous

[nuttycyclist]

Traffic ain't too bad actually.  I was surprised this easter as we did go out instead of hiding from the traffic by staying at home.

Only delay we had was about 5 minutes, and that was queuing over the Dartford Crossing (if they'd done away with the toll booths once it was paid for as they promised they would then we wouldn't have had that queue).

[Sigurd Mudtracker]

That is something which winds me up a little to be honest. There is the Motability scheme, which is fine and noble - ie disabled people pay for a discounted car, and get the tax knocked off (they don't get it for free). Which is good.
However, the tone of it seems to be "Society simply must get you a car - you simply cannot cope without it. Horror of horrors - being without a car - the rest of society have a car".

Totally agree with you.

My MiL has been on this scheme for years: previously she had old cars, and TBF needed to transport 3 children. Now she lives on her own, in town, and gets a brand new car every three years. She uses the car to drive to Sainsbury's - a 30+ mile round trip, twice a week. Because she likes Sainsbury's and doesn't like the two supermarkets within a short walk of her front door. She also drives to the country park twice a day to walk her dog, again because she doesn't like the park on the road she lives on.

It must be costing her a fortune, but in her mind the car is "free" as it's paid direct from DLA, and she considers her usage essential.

I can understand some people might need a car to not be isolated if they are particularly disabled/live remotely, but for the vast majority taxis + public transport would be cheaper and more effective.

Actually the cars are exempt from RFL - a free licence is granted whether or not DLA money is used for a Motabilty car or not.

Whilst I have some sympathy for the views expressed, I'm not sure that I can agree with them entirely.  Some people have many oportunties opened up for them by the Motability scheme.

That said, there are a number of "anomalies" with the scheme.  Like some of the cars you can lease - Mazda MX-5s, for example.  Plenty of the people I see using the disabled parking spaces at the local Tescos with obviously Motability cars (less than three years old, big and shiny MPVs) have no discernable disability.  Plus I suspect Motability is a secret plan to keep the car industry in business - I suspect a large number of recent new car sales have been to Motability...

[fruitcake]

YouTube - Skating and Bicycling the 110 Freeway(when cars were banned)

[Pedaldog.]

  Plenty of the people I see using the disabled parking spaces at the local Tescos with obviously Motability cars (less than three years old, big and shiny MPVs) have no discernable disability. 

Emphysema? There are many "Hidden disbilities" that make things difficult for people. Are you saying that it's only fair if you're in a wheelchair or have some obvious problem like am leg missin?

[docsquid]

Interesting one, this one.

There IS far too much "trivial" car use - i.e. journeys for the sake of it because you have a car, where you could make do without that journey or at least with a much shorter journey if you didn't have that car.

However, there are things for which cars are essential.  We could not, for example, manage our woods without a motorised vehicle (and quite a heavy one at that).  We have to lug equipment back and forth from the house to the woods e.g. generators, large brush-cutters plus the petrol for them, chainsaws and so on.  We do leave some things e.g. the tractor, in the barn, but we can't leave very portable equipment there because of scrotes who try and break in and steal stuff.  We cannot transport this equipment by bicycle, it is just too heavy, and it would not be possible to stack it safely.

I also could not do my personal training business or nordic walking classes without a car as I could not transport the equipment or poles by bicycle.  It is possible to carry one set of poles by bicycle (I know, I've done it), but not enough for a whole class.

My mother who had MS and was in a wheelchair managed to remain independent for years using a Motability car.  She had to have it converted to carry her wheelchair, although she transferred herself into the driver's seat to drive with hand controls.  She didn't make unneccessary journeys, just to the nearest shops or supermarket, and to visit us.

Like people say, there are non-obvious disabilities which require Motability cars, such as lung disease - I know, I suffer from one (cystic fibrosis).  Thus, although I can cycle solo without luggage, I could not possibly carry large shopping loads on a bicycle due to the lung damage I have.  I am lucky in that most of my local shops could be reached by bus, but many folk living in the villages outside town have no bus service at all.  In my situation, a car or taxi would be their only option to get out of the house.

I'm currently temporarily disabled by a broken knee.  I am going stir crazy as I'm completely limited to my own house, or a few of my close neighbours.  I simply can't get anywhere else on crutches.  At present I'm extremely grateful to have a car (and a 4x4 at that) so I can not only get to our woods, but also be driven round it to enjoy the birds and flowers and trees.  Without a car and somebody to drive me, I'd have been totally stuck in the house so can appreciate what this is like.  I am lucky. I will get better and be able to cycle and walk again.  But I can appreciate how people feel who are stuck and who would remain stuck without a car (or a probably unrealistic regular public transport service to all small villages in the country).

So, I'd prefer not to use the car, but sometimes have to.  Where I don't have to, I don't.  I do cycle or walk into town or to the woods where I can, but if I have to carry equipment, I can't.  I do appreciate the value of cars to those with temporary or permanent disabilities.