Why are we all falling off?

[drossall]

Is it the road surface or is it that the tyre compound has changed and possibly has less natural rubber - which is what I suspect.

Certainly my problem was on brand-new road. Normally I'm pleased to see a nice, smooth surface, but maybe it's not so safe if there is any kind of problem (e.g. oil on the road)?

[SlowCoach]

Is it the road surface or is it that the tyre compound has changed and possibly has less natural rubber - which is what I suspect.

Certainly my problem was on brand-new road. Normally I'm pleased to see a nice, smooth surface, but maybe it's not so safe if there is any kind of problem (e.g. oil on the road)?

It may well be something to do with it being a new surface. Off topic, but at work we resurfaced a car park 2 years ago which is on a slight slope. That winter we had slip problems with anyone walking across it - it was so bad that we were seriously considering installing fixed ropes as hand rails on the pedestrian part. The following year, once the surface was bedded in, it wasn't a problem at all and no-one could work out what the issue had been the previous year.

[Phil W]

Grip is related to surface area at a microscopic level. So maybe it's the case that when new the surface had a smaller surface area in contact with the shoes and so was slippy. As it has aged the surface area has increased the surface area that comes into contact.

[drossall]

Several people have told me that new roads leak oil from the tar for several months. If so, and considering motor-cyclists as well as cyclists, it would seem reckless for Councils to leave them like that.

Any civil engineers who are qualified to comment?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The black in blacktop is oil/ tar which sticks the macadam together. The stones are covered in it and it gradually wears off the exposed surfaces due to traffic, increasing traction. This is why there are short-term speed limits for newly-applied blacktop and the surface is much blacker than older asphalt with 'cleaner' stones. Pedestrians find it difficult to wear the excess tar off, strangely enough.

[rogerzilla]

Shoes with real leather soles are lethal on some damp surfaces, tarmac or paving slabs.

[Fab Foodie]

I've slid about today and on Sat - I saw a fall and many slides this morning. Peeps report sliding about on Sat, and during the week. Last week - no problems at all. The week we had sub-zero temps (was that 3 weeks ago?) - no problems at all.

Before we get into theories ... is anyone outside South Oxon getting this? [No offence, but if you live somewhere that's been sub-zero with snow flurries for 5 weeks, well ... start your own thread!]

Well from .... South Oxon on Sunday 1 o/clockish riding up the hill from Farmoor to Cumnor my rear Lugano on the retro-bike (with real-man retro gearing) was wheel-spinning that much I almost came to a standstill.  It didn't matter much if I was on the polished or the rougher bits of tarmac either.  Pulling away from junctions out of the saddle induced the same kind of slippage.

The previous week in sarf Londinium I experienced the same problems accelerating out of the saddle, lots of wheel slip on a slightly damp road.  I thought it down to urban diesel, but on the rural back roads of Oxon I'm less sure.

Riding the Giant with PR4's for the Mince Pie run 

[mattc]

Sounds like you need retro real-man tyres too!
(but avoid retro leather-soled shoes)

[Hot Flatus]

New tarmac can be slippery. There was a new section on my commute a few years back that got ripped up and redone after about 10 crashes in four days.(I might be exagerrating a bit there, but not much). Add a bit of diesel and some leaf slime and you're there

[drossall]

I think I'd ask again, isn't it somewhat reckless knowingly to leave a surface in that condition?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

No. It is somewhat reckless to assume that traction is always the best it could possibly be.

[Glover Fan]

I think I'd ask again, isn't it somewhat reckless knowingly to leave a surface in that condition?

What else do you suggest? Do nothing and leave potholes on the road?

[drossall]

What else do you suggest? Do nothing and leave potholes on the road?

Well, the French authorities routinely resurface whole road sections when the Tour de France is coming to town, and riders don't fall off much, even though they ignore the following words:

No. It is somewhat reckless to assume that traction is always the best it could possibly be.

I was hoping to find someone knowledgeable - is it possible to build new roads that are not dangerous to two-wheelers, or do the French just resurface six months early, and let natural processes remove the oil before the bunch arrives? Surely not.

My interest in this thread does have a context, described in another thread. I was on 67" fixed, going through a roundabout, and not pushing it (I'm not fit enough to "assume that traction is always the best that it could possibly be" in those circumstances, and I wasn't doing more than 18mph max). If we can't do that through a fairly wide roundabout, going straight ahead, it's going to be a shock for many here.

It seems to me quite alarming to accept that new roads will be unsafe for any two-wheeler for months after their construction, and it's a new idea on me. If it happened for cars, there'd be an outcry.

[Glover Fan]

But it can and does happen for cars. Sometimes sand is spread over new surface to mitigate the slipperiness, but generally I can't imagine much can be done but to put up warning signs.

[Si_Co]

In my case, because some tw@t is sabotaging my bike, in the last few weeks, both brake QR's undone, not fun getting to the TL's to find it don't stop. Friday front wheel QR undone, wheel escaped after hitting a pot hole on Carrington Lane, locked up as it hit the brake blocks and I bailed out into the verge. No harm done to either me or the bike but someone is living on borrowed time. 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I have a little knowledge, having worked for the Highway Agency for 5 years as an engineer, albeit a structural engineer.

It is standard worldwide for skid resistance of blacktop to improve after laying. There are differences in skid resistance as a result of type of stone, asphalt mix, method of compaction and so on. There are also other factors that influence skid resistance, many of which overwhelm the asphalt factor variations. I don't know what is going on and won't speculate without more information that a forum is unlikely to be able to find out.

[ian]

I live on a short, steep hill (about 22%) and I can slide all way down my drive and hill with the rear wheel locked (that's on Marathons). It's erm, interesting, as there's a t-junction at the bottom of the 70 metre slide. You have to be careful in the car. It's mostly a combination of damp and rotting leaf matter as far as I can tell. For some reason a good number of cars try to make it up the hill by frantically overrevving in first gear which just spins the wheels.

Snow and ice will be fun. I'm getting a sledge.

[andyoxon]

I heard that some District councils use a water dispersant (which wouldn't help grip) along with salt; but can't find anything online.  Anyone know about this?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The Tour de France often requires streets to be swept before the racers come through. Not many of us have that luxury.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Another thought.  I've noticed that there seem to be more oil/diesel slicks on the roads these days - is this a common experience - perhaps drivers aren't getting their old cars serviced as frequently / not replacing their old junkers as frequently?

[Kim]

Another thought.  I've noticed that there seem to be more oil/diesel slicks on the roads these days - is this a common experience - perhaps drivers aren't getting their old cars serviced as frequently / not replacing their old junkers as frequently?

An awful lot of the oily stuff (I assume diesel) around here seems to have leaked from buses.  You can tell by the way the trail pulls in and pools at bus stops.

Though it's sharp bends near filling stations where you really need to watch out. (DAHIKT)

[Fab Foodie]

Others are sliding too ...

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/slip-sliding.144671/

[nicknack]

Ah, but are you all wearing h*****s?

If so, it's risk compensation innit?

<ducks>

[mattc]

Others are sliding too ...

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/slip-sliding.144671/

Thanks - that's useful data.

(Such a typical forum thread - Canadian pops up and starts telling us about what tyres work for him at -25'c          )

p.s. PR3s arrived yesterday - pretty retro up against your PR4s!