Random audax questions

[Lightning Phil]

You just do find for info, less than 2 mins job.

I couldn't do it for 20 min. Even if I could, it's too much chance for an error. A GPS coordinate is accurate and you can not fail on that(if you given the right one by the organizer)

Believe you me, riders do fail with the correct gps coordinates for infos. 

[N0rb3rt]

You might be in for a shock when you do get the location of the infos.

This audaxes are not gravel events. If it has any gravel in it, then it becomes a gravel event for me. I won't ruin my tyres going on little lanes, gravel bike paths  and so on, then fixing a puncture after 300km, then riding another 100km on 4 bar pressure, because all that I can do on my little hand pump.
Having GPS coordinates would eliminate all the possibility of missing an info control. If the control is only accessible via gravel roads, I would simply have the choice not to take part that event, and not facing this on the event, ruining my whole weekend.

[N0rb3rt]

Believe you me, riders do fail with the correct gps coordinates for infos.

I have no doubts about that. My mate told me that he overheard a conversation about the warehouse workers who can not operate the equipment properly there, and the team leaders can not meet the target because the workers are too dumb(!)

Using GPS coordinates need a certain amount if intelligence but for me this is really straight forward, and easy.

[Manotea]

I know this is covered elsewhere - but I'll be buggered if I can find it with forum search: I'm planning my first DIY's but my circumstances mean they will tend to be short notice. What is considered good form in terms of giving notice to the DIY organisers? Is 2 days too little? I'm using Paul Stewart (inside M25).

Holy Thread Resurrection"

In times of yore DIY Routes would need to be 'validated' for min distance in advance...

Nowadays practically all DIYs are validated by GPX and validation consists of confirming the ride completed their planned route (more or less and done the distance.

Further, the majority (well >50%) of entries are submitted within a few days of the ride and so in many cases the DIY org will first see the entry 'after the event, and likely will process the entry and ride track together.

So unless you have some specific questions, no need to be considerate; the only only requirement is to ensure your GPX route is >= the Brevet distance and the entry is submitted before you start.

This approach works for me though other Orgs may vary (though I suspect not by much. )

[citoyen]

You might be in for a shock when you do get the location of the infos.

This audaxes are not gravel events. If it has any gravel in it, then it becomes a gravel event for me. I won't ruin my tyres going on little lanes, gravel bike paths  and so on, then fixing a puncture after 300km, then riding another 100km on 4 bar pressure, because all that I can do on my little hand pump.
Having GPS coordinates would eliminate all the possibility of missing an info control. If the control is only accessible via gravel roads, I would simply have the choice not to take part that event, and not facing this on the event, ruining my whole weekend.

The Wessex rides have always used small lanes (but not “gravel” roads, as far as I know). You will probably find that the info controls are in places that force you to use those small lanes. For most people who enter the Wessex rides, this is part of their charm.

The route sheet may well be “old school”. This is also part of the charm. Route sheets are designed to be followed on the road, not sitting at home with Google maps. They actually do the job very well and people were successfully using them long before gps became mainstream.

If you can’t embrace the spirit of the event, you might be better off looking for a different event.

[N0rb3rt]

The Wessex rides have always used small lanes

This is the 4.th time I'm writing this: 'that wessex ride' was just an example to see if the organizer respond to my questions or not. He did not.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Then maybe you have your answer. Find an event by another organiser.

[citoyen]

The Wessex rides have always used small lanes

This is the 4.th time I'm writing this: 'that wessex ride' was just an example to see if the organizer respond to my questions or not. He did not.

My comment was relating to your particular point about that particular ride.

On the more general point of organisers being slow to respond, remember that they are unpaid volunteers who often have to fit in organising audax events around family and work commitments. They don’t have customer service teams sitting in a call centre waiting for your email.

Fortunately, the majority of riders are not so needy. I expect most organisers would give up pretty quickly if they were.

[N0rb3rt]

Fortunately, the majority of riders are not so needy.

Asking GPS coordinates in 2022 is needy? In 2001 it would be, but these days?

[citoyen]

It’s not information I would have readily available, and it’s not something I’ve ever been asked to provide.

If a rider asked for it, I might make the effort to find it if I weren’t too busy, but it wouldn’t be my top priority, and it would be very much *when I get round to it*

[Jaded]

The organiser will have put a lot of time into designing it.

I don't care. If it's a too much hurtle to them, then do not organize an event. It's simple as that.

it’s their responsibility to ensure they pass through the controls as prescribed.

They are not  prescribing the locations properly. Having it hidden somewhere in the 321432.th turn instruction on a 8 page long PDF. That is not appropriate . A GPS coordinate looks like this:   51.3423 -1.59701
You don't have scroll through 8 pages, and there is no chance of missing one. Also in the PDF the search function is disabled, so if you miss one, you are not getting the event validated. I'm not a secretary to scroll through 8 pages, and pay 18 quid to Audax uk,and another 10-20 quid to the organizer.
We are in 2022, so getting a GPS coordinate out is 2 clicks using Google Maps.

Browsing this thread I read that as 2 dicks, and wondered where the other one had come from.

I think if someone does not feel they are getting value for money from what is correctly provided, that they find another organisation to provide it for them.

[Lightning Phil]

plenty of time to figure it out.

Paying Audax Uk 18 quid a year, then paying additional 10-20 quid for the event, I won't "figure it out", and don't want messing with that. It should be posted according to Audax rules,and not hidden somewhere between the 23324.th turn in a 8 page long PDF.

Which route sheet has that instruction and the info not clearly stated?  If you provide a link to the route sheet you are referring to, it’d help a lot.

[N0rb3rt]

Which route sheet has that instruction and the info not clearly stated?  If you provide a link to the route sheet you are referring to, it’d help a lot.

Hi Phil,

thank you for your help. This is the route sheet I've got from an event, that I've already ridden, but would like to know what you can locate.
If you can please send me GPS coordinates where the INFO CONTROLs are. I think there are at least 2 of them.
Thank you.

Starting Place:   Rowlands Castle Parish Hall, Links Lane PO9 6AD

Finish:   Rowlands Castle Parish Hall where food will be available (Please do not    bring muddy/wet clothes into the hall)
Controls:   Controls are free:
•   HUNGERFORD. Cafes and shops in town plus 2 garages on the way out of town.
•   CHARLBURY. Small shop on route Co-Op down Enstone Road (closes 10pm) and Pubs in town centre
•   DAVENTRY. Garage/Subway bottom of the hill (closes at 11pm) or continue down A426 to 24ht garage and Mac Donalds
•   THAME. Services just before town (24hrs).
Please get proof of passage at each of these locations.

STAGE 1 (86KM)
L from hall up links lane
L@T(NO SP)
R@T(petersfield)
1st exit @mini RAB(Portsmouth)
Over motorway 1st R
R@T (NO SP)
R@X(CLANFIELD)
3RD L (East meon)by rising sun pub
L (Warnford)
Bear R after by single track road sign
R@T(NO SP)A32
1ST L (st johns church)
R@T(the dean)
L@X(NO SP)A272
1ST R(new alresford)
L@T(new alresford)
R@T(new alresford)
S.O.RAB(new alresford)
1st R(GUNDLETON)
R@T(BIGHTON)
L@T(NEW ALRESFORD)
1st R(NO SP)
L@T(NO SP)
R@T(Basingstoke)
L (NORTHINGTON)
L@T (EAST STRATTON)
R@X(EAST STRATTON)
R@T(basingstoke) A33
1ST L(WEST STRATTON)
L@T(NO SP)
L@T(andover)
1st R(WHITCHURCH)
1ST L (NO SP) after 3,5km
R@T (NO SP)
2ND @RAB(st mary bourne)
R(st mary bourne)
R@X(EGBURY)
L@T(andover) A343
1st R(ASHMANSWORTH)
L@T(FACCOMBE)
R@GREEN(FACCOMBE)
R@T(INKPEN)
R@T(INKPEN) effectively S.O.
L@T(NO SP)
R@X(HUNGERFORD)
R@T(HUNGERFORD)
Immd L (HUNGERFORD)
L@T(HUNGERFORD)
R@ MINI RAB
S.O. MINI RAB
HUNGERFORD CONTROL(86KM)


   STAGE 2 (62KM)
Continue over canal bridge on A338
2ND EXIT MINI RAB(newbury) A4
2ND EXIT@RAB (newbury)
1ST EXIT (wantage)A338
L (upper eddington rd)
L@T(LAMBOURN)
R(POUGHLEY)
L@T(NO SP)
NEXT R(EASTBURY)
S.O.to L@X(LAMBOURN)
In Lambourn R(mill rd) by vets
R@T(wantage road)
L(KINGSTON LISLE)
S.O.(KINGSTON LISLE)
R(baulking)
R@T(STANDFORD-IN-THE-VALE)
L@T(STANDFORD-IN-THE-VALE)A417
R(BUCKLAND)
R@T(NO SP)
L@X(BUCKLAND)
S.O.@X(buckland rd)
L@X(BAMPTON)
R@T(BAMPTON)
R(standlake) B4449
L(mount owen rd)
L@T(CURBRIDGE)
R@T(CURBRIDGE) A4095
L(mill lane) just after pub
L@T(NO SP)
R(minster lovell)
3rd EXIT@RAB(minster lovell)
R@TL(witney) B4047
NEXT L(CRAWLEY)
L(minster lovell) by war memorial
R(CHARLEBURY)
L@T(CHARLEBURY)
L@T(NO SP)
L@X(TOWN CENTRE)
CHARLBURY CONTROL(148KM)
STAGE 3 (58KM)
Retrace up Enstone rd -follow B4022
S.O.X (Bicester)B4022
L(SANDFORD ST MARTIN)
L@T by church
R@X(DEDDINGTON)
L@TL(banbury)
NEXT R(earls lane)
L@T(banbury)
R(CHARLTON) INFO CONTROL.
R@X(banbury)
L@T(banbury)
R(greatworth)
R(SULGRAVE)
S.O.X(SULGRAVE)
R@T(CANONS ASHBY)
L in Canons ashby(CYCLEWAY 50)
R@T(little preston)
NEXT L SP(PRESTON CAPES)
S.O.X(DAVENTRY)
In newhamL(STAVERTON)
S.O.X (Staverton)
S.O.X.CYCLEWAY 50)
L@T( NO SP)
DAVENTRY CONTROL (206KM)
Shell garage/subway here, other places available in the town continue down A426 24hr garage Mac Donalds
   STAGE 4(73KM)
Retrace to the road you used to descend in to daventry . L (CYCLEWAY 50)
S.O.X(NEWHAM)
S.O.X(PRESTON CAPES)
R@T(PRESTON CAPES)
S.0.X(CANONS ASHBY)
R@T(CANONS ASHBY)
L(CANONS ASHBY)
R@T(NO SP)
In moreton Pinkney L(CYCLEWAY 50)
L@T(WESTON)
L@T(SYRESHAM)
In wappenham R(SYRESHAM)
R@T(crowfield)
L@T(northampton)
Next R( BIDDLESTON)#
R@X(TINGEWICK)
S.O.X(TINGEWICK) A422
L@X MINI RAB(buckingham)
INFO CONTROL IN VILLAGE)
R(GAWCOTT)
L@T(GAWCOTT)In grendon underwood L(village centre)
S.O.X(BRILL)
L@T(THAME)
R@T(THAME)
L@T(THAME)
In long crendon R(THAME)carters lane
L@T(THAME)
S.O.MINI RAB
2nd EXIT RAB(NO SP)
L (SERVICES)
THAME CONTROL( 279KM)

[Lightning Phil]

I would say first info is here https://maps.app.goo.gl/byN3c8G8daihgpek9?g_st=ic

I would say second info is in Tingewick

That took 10 mins, without a gpx overlaid on a map to refer to.  Be even faster if I had the latter.

If a place mentioned on that route sheet is in capitals , it means you pass through it, which helps you orientate yourself on a map.

Do you want me to guide you round the event, and fill your water bottles as well?

[tippers_kiwi]

Can I play too? Please?

Less than 5 minutes here,
1. 51.99585, -1.25530
2. 51.99032,-1.04779

That's where I would plot them anyway.

[arabella]

Never having used a GPS on an audax I am struggling with the above to-&-fro.
If I ever thought I could do a better route than the org has come up with I've always been wrong.  I can come up with an alternative route using more main roads (and perhaps nearer the headline distance), but why would I want to?  Given pretty much all the other riders will follow the org's route then all you are achieving is a ride by yourself that you could do some other day with fewer queues at controls.
etc.

[N0rb3rt]

Do you want me to guide you round the event, and fill your water bottles as well?

Yes, that would be nice.

[N0rb3rt]

1. 51.99585, -1.25530
2. 51.99032,-1.04779

1. 51.99585, -1.25530 - that is probably right. I gave the wrong answer to that info control, because I thought it's the left turn just before that. The question was: 'Where you are turning to from that road?' - Looks like the right answer is 'Charlton' and not Adderbury as I answered that question.

2. 51.99032,-1.04779 - right location, 50m down the road there is a pub, and that was the question. When I went through the village in pitch dark, I didn't see any pub. No lights, no nothing. Looks like they shut all the lights off if they are closed. So rolled through the village without spotting any pubs. I did not bother to going up and down the village at midnight, I just kept going. Later I looked it up on Street View. If I would have given the GPS coordinates, I would have stopped right in front of it.

[citoyen]

1. 51.99585, -1.25530 - that is probably right. I gave the wrong answer to that info control, because I thought it's the left turn just before that. The question was: 'Where you are turning to from that road?' - Looks like the right answer is 'Charlton' and not Adderbury as I answered that question.

Going by Google Maps, it looks like there's a line missing from the routesheet - the left at the end of Earls Lane where it joins the main road...

...
R@X(DEDDINGTON)
L@TL(banbury)
NEXT R(earls lane)
L@T [no signpost]
L@T(banbury)
R(CHARLTON) INFO CONTROL.
R@X(banbury)
...

Anyway, the answer to the info question is given in the routesheet. 

[N0rb3rt]

it looks like there's a line missing from the routesheet

That's a good catch. I would have never noticed that, even reading it 1000x times.

[grams]

That's a good catch. I would have never noticed that, even reading it 1000x times.

It sounds like you you haven't had even the mildest stab at following it on the map...

Earls Lane is the obvious place to start trying to locate the info control since it's an explicitly named street and we can search for it directly. We know from context we're heading east towards Charlton and ultimately Daventry. The east end of Earl's Lane is a T junction with the B4031, so we turn left as instructed.

The next instruction is a right turn towards Charlton, but looking at the map a right turn from the B4031 would take us south and Charlton is northeast. The B4031 leads to a T junction in Aynho (which you can see on the map and confirm on Street View), and again a right turn there wouldn't take us towards Charlton. Also T junctions are always mentioned explicitly on route sheets. Therefore there must be a missing instruction.

It's taken me much longer to type that than it did to follow it.

[N0rb3rt]

haven't had even the mildest stab at following it on the map...

That is absolutely correct. I don't, and I don't care. I know how to create the proper route for my Garmin, and I know how to use it. That's all I need. Unless I can not pray out the GPS coordinates from the organizer.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Find organisers who do what you want and avoid organisers that don’t. Then we don’t have to read about it.

[JellyLegs]

Each to their own.  Half the fun of audax is looking at the route, plotting it on the map before the event and getting a picture of what’s to come in my mind.  The organiser puts effort into showcasing the best of their area, usually that’s smaller lanes, country villages and scenic beauty, it is rarely the A45 followed by A1094.  If I wanted to have a head down blast along A roads then I wouldn’t be an Audaxer, I would have taken up time trialling. 

[jsabine]

Then we don’t have to read about it.

That's what an Ignore function is for.

But I wouldn't dignify this chap with the effort needed to place him (for it is undoubtedly a him) on that list