Prizes for first back turn the rides into races. End of.
I've not seen anything like that, but I wouldn't like it either. A prize for the last back within the allotted time would be fun.
I don't see a problem with that. A bottle of beer is not enough of an incentive to turn a ride into a race.I’m not so sure. I may be wrong but the lure of overt recognition can be strong. Look at the battle for segments on Strava, and that is worth nothing. There were comments on Facebook last time about trying to win one (although I concede they may have been tongue in cheek, it’s hard to tell).
Food/drink at the finish is first come first served anyway... there should be enough food for all, but there might not be enough beer for all... ;D
Prizes for first back turn the rides into races. End of.
Prizes for first back turn the rides into races. End of.
This could actually make the Audax illegal!!!
it's all been blown out of proportion...
Do something interesting and award a beer to the person ...... with the most inappropriate bike or the most catastrophic mechanical or whatever.Arbitary decision by organiser, or decided by a committee (of riders who took part)? :-D
Literally the thing that makes audaxes unique is that there’s no prize for finishing first.
But then I though this would probably fall foul of rules about 'publishing' times
As someone who's frequently lanterne rouge, I can confirm there is also competition for this prestigious place. On 200s and 300s I often lose out to Roger from South Wales, on shorter events various random locals claim the glory. I've never seen anybody get a prize for it, although on the Jaeger Bomb we (me and my fellow lanterne-rouger who shall remain anonymous, Roger wasn't there!) were offered various remnants of rice pudding and cake to finish up. :thumbsup: And that's the way it should be.I've not seen anything like that, but I wouldn't like it either. A prize for the last back within the allotted time would be fun.
In fairness there was a beer for lantern rouge last time (and won by a club mate who had a heroic adventure!). Although it wasn’t announced until someone asked about it. I have no objections to that ‘prize’. It is of course the tail end where most of the interesting stuff happens!
Even if I, personally, feel that it slightly goes against the "one for all and all for one" attitude of dashingmusketeersrandonneurs.
This is not bragging but a statement of fact; I've been first back on every Audax I've done bar LEL in 2013 where I was 6th or 7th, and was presented with absolutely nothing!
That is the way it should be, if one person gets a beer for finishing (first or otherwise) then everybody should get a beer for finishing within time limits.
The organiser might feel more confident that a lawyer or claim assessor wouldn't seek to pervert what in a more sensible world would be an innocent gesture.
The finishing times of all LEL riders are published by Les Randonneurs Mondiaux (which is the validation body). PBP (i.e. ACP) publishes finishing times. I'm not sure there is a rule within AUK to say that finish times absolutely cannot be published for rides it validates. As we know, rides are run by individual organisers not by AUK.
As someone who's frequently lanterne rouge, I can confirm there is also competition for this prestigious place. On 200s and 300s I often lose out to Roger from South Wales, on shorter events various random locals claim the glory. I've never seen anybody get a prize for it, although on the Jaeger Bomb we (me and my fellow lanterne-rouger who shall remain anonymous, Roger wasn't there!) were offered various remnants of rice pudding and cake to finish up. :thumbsup: And that's the way it should be.I've not seen anything like that, but I wouldn't like it either. A prize for the last back within the allotted time would be fun.In fairness there was a beer for lantern rouge last time (and won by a club mate who had a heroic adventure!). Although it wasn’t announced until someone asked about it. I have no objections to that ‘prize’. It is of course the tail end where most of the interesting stuff happens!
Prizes for first back turn the rides into races. End of.
Prizes for first back turn the rides into races. End of.
not true... a beer won't make any difference...
I appreciate the Audax world is a bare bone budget one, but seeing a bottle of beer as a "prize to the winner" takes some stretch of imagination..
......... A bottle of beer will be awarded to:
- Any person that enters this event within 60 minutes of this posting on YACF: Entries at http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-120/
Right!
Yes it was me that placed the light hearted comment about beers on the Facebook
A bottle of beer will be awarded to:
- The Lantern Rouge
- Any person that enters this event within 60 minutes of this posting on YACF: Entries at http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-120/
- The 27th Arrival
- A person who completes the ride against the greatest of all adversarial circumstances (solely judged by the organiser without reference to a committee).
- To all my volunteers who support all the excellent riders at this event.
......... A bottle of beer will be awarded to:
- Any person that enters this event within 60 minutes of this posting on YACF: Entries at http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-120/
Entered and I will donate my beer to a worthy cause of my choice. Do I have to complete the ride to claim the beer?
Be honest; you only brought this up because the diversity thread was slowing down, didn't you?
I don't think you get my point.
Prizes (irrespective of what the prizes actually are) for first, second, third, etc. mean the event is a race.
The police and the CPS (and insurers!) would take a very dim view of unauthorised racing on the public highway.
Be honest; you only brought this up because the diversity thread was slowing down, didn't you?
I don't think you get my point.
Prizes (irrespective of what the prizes actually are) for first, second, third, etc. mean the event is a race.
The police and the CPS (and insurers!) would take a very dim view of unauthorised racing on the public highway.
I do get your point, but your point is dogmatic.
The Police will have a large laugh at anyone suggesting that because a bottle of beer was on offer for the first finisher... it therefore turned this into a race.
I would like to believe that the police have more serious matters to deal with that whether or not a bottle of beer turns a ride into a race.
The Police will have a large laugh at anyone suggesting that because a bottle of beer was on offer for the first finisher... it therefore turned this into a race.
I would like to believe that the police have more serious matters to deal with that whether or not a bottle of beer turns a ride into a race.
Can you make sure it's cold? I hate warm ale...
The Police will have a large laugh at anyone suggesting that because a bottle of beer was on offer for the first finisher... it therefore turned this into a race.
I would like to believe that the police have more serious matters to deal with that whether or not a bottle of beer turns a ride into a race.
Goodness me.
You've never had dealings with the police, have you?
(Oh, and I assume you were referring to the constabulary and not the popular 80's beat combo when you typed "The Police")
Can you make sure it's cold? I hate warm ale...
Will you be vying for 27th place? I hear that there will be congregation of audaxers standing outside of GHQ waiting until the 27th place becomes available. Any other poor unsuspecting rider ahead of 27th place will be shoved through the door with brevet card in hand.
The finishing times of all LEL riders are published by Les Randonneurs Mondiaux (which is the validation body). PBP (i.e. ACP) publishes finishing times. I'm not sure there is a rule within AUK to say that finish times absolutely cannot be published for rides it validates. As we know, rides are run by individual organisers not by AUK.
"Regulation 9.10 Results: AUK events are not races and no timed results list or placings list of any AUK event may be published."
Be honest; you only brought this up because the diversity thread was slowing down, didn't you?
I love threads like this.
Gives me a chance to update the old iggy list.
Prizes for first back turn the rides into races. End of.
not true... a beer won't make any difference...if I decided I want to be the first back, I will try and do so, if I am not bothered, it's not a beer that will change my mind. It's a non issue... a beer is not a trophy
What a bunch of cry babies.
Can you please point out any bashing of fitter riders or any witches being hunted in this thread?
To hear of riders waiting for controls to open baffles me. Stop at a ‘spoons and enjoy a burger and pint.
To hear of riders waiting for controls to open baffles me. Stop at a ‘spoons and enjoy a burger and pint.
... eating a Spoons burger...
The thread didn't have legs to stand on and someone is therefore turning into the usual debate
The thread didn't have legs to stand on and someone is therefore turning into the usual debate
Did it not? Sorry for starting it. We are however on page 3.... in fact it was less of a debate than I thought with the majority agreeing with me. I’ve not seen fast rider bashing and it was never my intention.
John
Prizes for first back turn the rides into races. End of.
He's just chewing the fat, Ian.
completely blown out of proportion
Prizes for first back turn the rides into races. End of.
Is my school of thought.
No problem with prizes for completing your first ride of $distance, most comedy bike, most ambitious newbie, youngest rider, most unfortunate mechanical, most spectacular bodge, looking most haggard at the finish, completing your 100th brevet on your 100th birthday, best spokey-dokeys, or whatever. Those would be entirely within the spirit of Audax, and Not A Race.
Go back and read that post again and see what it actually said.
Prizes for first back turn the rides into races. End of.
Is my school of thought.
No problem with prizes for completing your first ride of $distance, most comedy bike, most ambitious newbie, youngest rider, most unfortunate mechanical, most spectacular bodge, looking most haggard at the finish, completing your 100th brevet on your 100th birthday, best spokey-dokeys, or whatever. Those would be entirely within the spirit of Audax, and Not A Race.
Not in my experience.
Do you seriously think that there would be any difference in finishers' times on parallel events, one offering a pint to first back, and the other event not?
Heck, Ive ridden these events. I've even had a pint at the end. It made no difference whatsoever to the manner in which anybody rode....but the pint was quite welcome nevertheless.
I've been trying for 10 years - so you've got no hope! Clearly a very exclusive club.Be honest; you only brought this up because the diversity thread was slowing down, didn't you?
I love threads like this.
Gives me a chance to update the old iggy list.
Am I on it now? ;D
Prizes for first back turn the rides into races. End of.
Is my school of thought.
No problem with prizes for completing your first ride of $distance, most comedy bike, most ambitious newbie, youngest rider, most unfortunate mechanical, most spectacular bodge, looking most haggard at the finish, completing your 100th brevet on your 100th birthday, best spokey-dokeys, or whatever. Those would be entirely within the spirit of Audax, and Not A Race.
Not in my experience.
Do you seriously think that there would be any difference in finishers' times on parallel events, one offering a pint to first back, and the other event not?
Heck, Ive ridden these events. I've even had a pint at the end. It made no difference whatsoever to the manner in which anybody rode....but the pint was quite welcome nevertheless.
A race in which nobody makes particular effort to win is still a race.
I've been trying for 10 years - so you've got no hope! Clearly a very exclusive club.Be honest; you only brought this up because the diversity thread was slowing down, didn't you?
I love threads like this.
Gives me a chance to update the old iggy list.
Am I on it now? ;D
First rider back on my 400 used to have to get me out of my sleeping bag.
The prize was me walking round in my pants putting the kettle on.
If you're going to have a "joke" prize, it really should be for something a little silly; not just the winner!Exactly! :thumbsup:
Now, purely for academic reasons (ok, and because it will cheese off Whosatthewheel and Flatus ;)) I looked up the offence on the Police National Legal Database to see if there was a definition of racing. The closest it got was:also purely for academic reasons:
“Bicycle race:means a race or trial of speed which is not a time trial.”
So, not very helpful. I would argue that in the astronomically small chance that Phil got hauled in front of the beak, it would be down to the ‘man on the Clapham omnibus test’. The question being something like: ‘is a group of riders riding a fixed route, where the first three finishers receive something the others don’t, a race?’
John
Now, purely for academic reasons (ok, and because it will cheese off Whosatthewheel and Flatus ;)) I looked up the offence on the Police National Legal Database to see if there was a definition of racing. The closest it got was:also purely for academic reasons:
“Bicycle race:means a race or trial of speed which is not a time trial.”
So, not very helpful. I would argue that in the astronomically small chance that Phil got hauled in front of the beak, it would be down to the ‘man on the Clapham omnibus test’. The question being something like: ‘is a group of riders riding a fixed route, where the first three finishers receive something the others don’t, a race?’
John
You would also need to look at precedents. I am not aware of any, but someone probably is ...
In practice, this would only be an issue if there was:
- am RTA where insurers got involved, or
- some other breach of the peace, crime etc resulting in police involvement.
(In either case, things would be exacerbated if speed, or some sort of careless riding was involved. Or some behaviour that looked like "racing" to Joe Public, or a man watching from the Clapham Omnibus.)
Very unlikely, but not impossible.
Now as strange as it may sound, it appears that the majority on this thread agree it’s ‘a bit off’ (although I assume most would be sensible enough not to flounce off and not do it as I was going to). Phil has now altered the prizes so they are (what I would describe as) a lot more fun and less elitist. If I was around, I would now definitely be signing up.
No. I asked a generic question about awarding prizes for ‘winning’ audaxes in order to see if I was alone in my feelings. It just so happened it was triggered by an event that I want to ride, but I am unable to. I didn’t name the ride or organiser.
Now as strange as it may sound, it appears that the majority on this thread agree it’s ‘a bit off’ (although I assume most would be sensible enough not to flounce off and not do it as I was going to). Phil has now altered the prizes so they are (what I would describe as) a lot more fun and less elitist. If I was around, I would now definitely be signing up.
So you kicked a fuss about an event you didn't even want to ride...
Are you only interested in things that directly, personally, have an impact on you?
John
I was curious if it was just me being a snowflake.
I never liked the fact that the Tour of the Surrey Hills has sportive-style Gold/Silver/Bronze time gradings but I've ridden it a few times and it's a great event so I don't let that bother me.
It's not RUSA directly but there are extra awards in the US for people who complete Audaxes within 80%, 70% and 60% of the time limits:-
http://cyclosmontagnards.org/R80Rules.html
If a modest fellow on a steel bike with mudguards wins the bottle of beer, that's better than someone 'pushy' on a carbon bike in my book. Others will have different prejudices, all equally valid, as Audax is a 'Broad Church' and religions are largely about bundles of prejudice, or 'fixed' ideas, and we have an award for that too.What about someone pushy on a steel bike vs a modest fellow on a carbon bike? :-\ :)
What about someone pushy on a steel bike vs a modest fellow on a carbon bike? :-\ :)
If a modest fellow on a steel bike with mudguards wins the bottle of beer, that's better than someone 'pushy' on a carbon bike in my book. Others will have different prejudices, all equally valid, as Audax is a 'Broad Church' and religions are largely about bundles of prejudice, or 'fixed' ideas, and we have an award for that too.What about someone pushy on a steel bike vs a modest fellow on a carbon bike? :-\ :)
About £95, and £15 postage. https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/263900146503?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D49076c9788864aea8383d6a7a06bc742%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D253820704595%26itm%3D263900146503
That assumes you haven't got one in the garage, as I have. There are plenty of them about, and they turn up on PBP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-glPimWvLO0
Gavin Reichert finished in under 70 hours, a pretty good performance. http://shprung.com/pbp/?mode=info&frame=N192
Obviously views about this sort of thing are always going to be subjective, but that doesn't stop those views being based on evidence.
A hangover from earlier times when AUK had some ultra-hilly 100s (some of them much hillier than the Tour of the Hills) with a time limit of 5 hours (Gold) after which the organisers went home or to the nearest pub and anyone finishing within 7 hours could award themselves a Silver.
As someone who's frequently lanterne rouge, I can confirm there is also competition for this prestigious place.On a recent 100, I punctured in the first mile, and found that my mini-pump was mini, but didn't really qualify for the name pump. I limped back to the start, used the track pump in my car, got directions to a bike shop, bought my first ever CO2 inflator*, and punctured again in two miles.
Free beer for all finishers is the solution to the OP's dilemna.:thumbsup:
Free beer for all finishers is the solution to the OP's dilemna.
Personal opinion, but if I were an organiser I wouldn't be encouraging people to drink (by giving them a beer token) before some would be driving home.
There was a brewer on LEL 2001. Wim Van Der Spek later settled in Little Valley near Mytholmroyd.
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/long-ride-to-little-valley-1-2394394
So one of the Three Coasts 600s had a special beer brewed for it, and we got a bottle each.
There must be a picture of the label somewhere,
There was free beer at the overnight on the Three Steps to Severn 600 (and I think at the end, but I was driving). It was generic supermarket stuff, but it was a nice gesture.
John
A 20-23 km/h moving speed (which is probably where the social end of the ride is) for me is uncomfortable... it means I would have to constantly stop pedalling and coast or use a gear I am not used to pushing... some feel the same about 25 km/h... some even feel the same about 30 km/h, believe it or not...It sounds no different from cycling (touring) with my (then) 7 and 10yo little dears. push-push-push-coast-(repeat)
It's not RUSA directly but there are extra awards in the US for people who complete Audaxes within 80%, 70% and 60% of the time limits:-
http://cyclosmontagnards.org/R80Rules.html
There was a lot of RUSA discussion at the time the recognition scheme started, along with a fair bit of tutting. In the end, there is no practical way to stop a separate organisation from this sort of thing.
I've not seen anything like that, but I wouldn't like it either. A prize for the last back within the allotted time would be fun.
In fairness there was a beer for lantern rouge last time (and won by a club mate who had a heroic adventure!). Although it wasn’t announced until someone asked about it. I have no objections to that ‘prize’. It is of course the tail end where most of the interesting stuff happens!