Butane/propane stoves with pressure regulation?

[rogerzilla]

The trouble with yer cheapo Campingaz stove is that it's ultra-powerful for the first couple of kettle boils with a fresh cartridge, indifferent for the next six, wimpy for the three after that and then it can't supply heat any faster than the kettle is losing it to the outside air.  When it gets to this point it takes a hour to burn off the rest of the cartridge before you can change it.

So...is there a light and compact gas stove that doesn't have this creeping-death characteristic?  I don't really want liquid fuels due to the spillage issue, and I'd like to be able to use any cookware, which rules out Trangia thingies.

EDIT: Is it wrong to lust after this?

[mark]

Coleman UK - Fyrestorm® Stainless Steel

Apparently inverting the canister means that liquid fuel is delivered from the cartridge, instead of gas, so the delivery pressure remains constant for nearly the life of the cartridge.

Never tried one of these, but it makes a certain sense. Does not look cheap, though.

[PH]

Try standing the stove in an inch of lukewarm water when it's in use.  I have no idea why this works but it does.
The other tip is to give the canister a good shake before lighting, mix the Propane and Butane up, it's the Propane that burns hotter and gets used first.

[rogerzilla]

Try standing the stove in an inch of lukewarm water when it's in use.  I have no idea why this works but it does.

It's because the loss of pressure in the canister causes it to cool (and also why pure butane stoves don't work at all in winter; butane doesn't evaporate above about -2^oC and the cooling effect in use can easily get it down there even if it's 5 degrees outside).

[Charlotte]

Defo turn the cannister the other way up.  If you want to keep your current burner, you want one of these:

Gelert Multi Fit Folding Gas Adapter

Not only will it mean you can run the gas bottle upside down, but it also means you get a more stable base for your stove.  As a bonus, it means you can buy the cheapie non-threaded gas cannisters that are usually used in those "bistro" cookers.

[goatpebble]

Where are you using this stove? How high/cold do you expect it to be?

We have been using a Primus Micron, at altitudes of up to 3500m (in good weather)

My favourite is the Primus Gravity. Efficient, light, and it has a pre-heat coil. Because it is not a cartridge top stove, it sits on the ground, is less vulnerable to the wind, and is much more stable. And yes, this means you can safely invert the cartridge.

Without a pre-heat coil, inverting the cartridge might not be a good idea. Be careful.

[clarion]

We have a Primus Gravity.  It's brilliant.  You get an awful lot more gas out.

Standing the can in warm water is pretty effective otherwise, but less messy is to wrap it in some insulation (a wooly hat works well)

[rogerzilla]

We have a Primus Gravity.  It's brilliant.  You get an awful lot more gas out.

Standing the can in warm water is pretty effective otherwise, but less messy is to wrap it in some insulation (a wooly hat works well)

Insulation would make things worse.  The canister needs to gain heat from the outside air to stop the contents completely liquefying.

[clarion]

It's a lot worse on cold mornings, I can tell you!

[bikepacker]

Defo turn the cannister the other way up.  If you want to keep your current burner, you want one of these:

Gelert Multi Fit Folding Gas Adapter

Not only will it mean you can run the gas bottle upside down, but it also means you get a more stable base for your stove.  As a bonus, it means you can buy the cheapie non-threaded gas cannisters that are usually used in those "bistro" cookers.

Please do not use an upturned gas cannister with one of the Gelert Adaptor. They are great for giving a small stove a more stable base. However without a preheat coil you could have a major flare up by sending liquid gas into the stove.

[mark]

We have a Primus Gravity.  It's brilliant.  You get an awful lot more gas out.

Standing the can in warm water is pretty effective otherwise, but less messy is to wrap it in some insulation (a wooly hat works well)

Pressure in the cartridge will drop as the gas is used, so temperature in the cartridge will drop. Insulating the cartridge will prevent the outside air from re-warming the cartridge, so pressure inside the cartridge will stay low, instead of increasing slightly as outside air warms the cartridge.

Years ago, one of the American climbing magazines printed instructions on how to maintain cartridge pressure as the gas was depleted. Basically it involved duct-taping one end of a copper strip to the cartridge, and bending the strip so that the other end stuck into the flame. I don't know if anyone tried it, but the potential was certainly there for some spectacular results.

[David Martin]

Norty:
Trangia with gas conversion. Take cylinder and stand on top of the kettle. You get plenty of heat then (if done carefully, otherwise you suddenly get too much.)

When staying in some well known skanky caravans near a viaduct close to the centre of Yorkshires caving centre:
  Big 17kg butane cylinder. It is sub zero outside. Three bricks and a whisperlite got things moving quite happily.

DNTTAH

..d

[rogerzilla]

So...how mucky exactly are petrol stoves?  Do they turn your kettle black?

[hellymedic]

It depends what petrol you usee.
Coleman 'white gas' seemed pretty clean.
Lead-free auto fuel could be a bit sooty.

I was happy with my petrol stove but always used it outside my tent.

I used something similar to this
http://www.simplyhike.co.uk/products/Coleman/ExponentFeather442Stove-Unleaded.aspx

You won't get much soot if you wait till the flame burns blue and repump.

[Charlotte]

So...how mucky exactly are petrol stoves?  Do they turn your kettle black?

I've had a coleman multi-fuel splodystove since forever and it's never got my kettle any blacker than meths or gas.

[Wowbagger]

I've used a Coleman stove for quite some time and I've never noticed a problem with the pressure dropping. That, of course, could just be me being unobservant.

[hellymedic]

I think the Coleman instructions suggest pumping initially, pumping after the flame is established and then pumping again after prolonged cooking.

[rogerzilla]

They're supposed to be self-pressurising once the "generator tube" is hot.  Some people seem to have terrible problems with them flaring up, others have no problems in 40 years' use.  They apparently run cleaner and clog less when run on "white gas" rather than Esso unleaded.  Amazingly powerful though.

[hellymedic]

Well I never had a flare-up problem.
Petrol stoves are recommended by me and Aunty C seems to have been OK too. What other recommendation do you need?
Water boils fast enough for you not to lose the will to live in the wait.

[Tim Hall]

I found some in our stores at Scouts. They hadn't been used for three years or so. When I tried to light them there was much yellow flame and flaring.

Chucking out the "stale" petrol and using fresh fixed that.

Dead easy to use, very powerful.

[rogerzilla]

OK...I have found a cheap NOS Coleman Peak 1 on eBay so I'll see how that goes.  That model (550B) should come with a paraffin generator as well, for less risk of singed eyebrows than white gas or petrol.  Petrol isn't actually as ideal as it sounds; it may be available in most places, but in a minimum dispense of 2 litres (so can you take half a litre and pay for two, or do you have to buy two?).

[mark]

OK...I have found a cheap NOS Coleman Peak 1 on eBay so I'll see how that goes.  That model (550B) should come with a paraffin generator as well, for less risk of singed eyebrows than white gas or petrol.  Petrol isn't actually as ideal as it sounds; it may be available in most places, but in a minimum dispense of 2 litres (so can you take half a litre and pay for two, or do you have to buy two?).

Buy two liters and put 1 1/2 in your car?

Paraffin is not quite as simple to use as white gas. It's generally necessary to pre-heat the stove with some other liquid fuel (alcohol, white gas, etc.).

[andrew_s]

Petrol stoves should be used with "white gas" if possible. Car fuel works for a while, but the additives in it clog up the generator tube and jet after a while. Then you've got to clean it out. Some stoves are easier than others - you could have to replace the generator tube.
Coleman fuel is the normally available version of white gas, but there's also a Primus Powerfuel. Cheaper alternatives that you may be able to find locally are Aspen A4T or panel wipe (spray paint prep).

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To get good power from a gas stove to the end of the canister you need to send liquid gas to the burner, requiring a preheat tube in the flame and an invertible canister.
If you burn gas, you burn off the propane part of the gas preferentially so by half way through you will be burning pure butane. Butane has a boiling point of about zero, so below that you get nothing, and if it's not very much above you don't get much pressure, then the evaporation of the gas cools the canister and you get even less.
Burning liquid fuel uses butane and propane in the same proportion as in the gas mix, so you get no change towards the end of the canister. You need to start the stove with the canister upright to get the preheat tube hot before turning the canister over and adjusting the flame. You need some propane for this unless it's reasonably warm.

I use an Edelrid Opilio - light, a swivel on the hose so you don't twist it turning the stove over, and a control knob that is reasonably easy to use on an upside down canister.

[rogerzilla]

I'll try white gas.  For running on paraffin, Coleman do some sort of flammable paste to preheat the generator tube, but I don't know how easy it is to find in the UK.

What's the storage life of white gas like?  Petrol can go "off" after about two months in a small storage container.

[Charlotte]

OK...I have found a cheap NOS Coleman Peak 1 on eBay so I'll see how that goes.  That model (550B) should come with a paraffin generator as well, for less risk of singed eyebrows than white gas or petrol.  Petrol isn't actually as ideal as it sounds; it may be available in most places, but in a minimum dispense of 2 litres (so can you take half a litre and pay for two, or do you have to buy two?).

That's exactly the one I have and although it weighs LOADS, it's brilliant.  I bobught it about fifteen years ago for motorcycle camping (read: debauched biker rallies) and it served me very well indeed.

Petrol stoves should be used with "white gas" if possible. Car fuel works for a while, but the additives in it clog up the generator tube and jet after a while.

Maybe on smaller, mountain stoves.  On mine, I've only ever fed it unleaded (dipped from my motorcycle tank, natch) and it's been fine.