Author Topic: Chiropractors  (Read 21146 times)

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Chiropractors
« on: 28 December, 2011, 09:05:28 am »
Woo or useful?

Mrs Z has recurrent back problems (I've told her she needs to ride her bike yadda yadda) and usually ends up going to the local quack for a few sessions every year or so.  I always lumped them in with homeopaths, mentally.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

plum

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #1 on: 28 December, 2011, 09:12:06 am »
Charlatans, in the same bin as all the other quacks.

The only personal experience of which I can boast is that I know one, and he's an idiot.

Chiropractors
« Reply #2 on: 28 December, 2011, 09:16:26 am »
Anecdata: I've been seeing my chiropractor for years. She sorts me out when I tweak my back and am hurting. This is something that with horses I just do-correct posture doesn't help when you land awkwardly going over a jump or go splat! She can't "cure" what is a wear and tear/injury issue, but I always end up feeling much better and while it might take a couple or up to four visits, she's never failed to get me completely back to optimum.

They have a long education (several years) and a council that regulates them. Also, BUPA will pay out eg in car accidents etc.



plum

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #3 on: 28 December, 2011, 09:19:20 am »
They have a long education (several years) and a council that regulates them.

Don't they all...

http://www.homeopathyusa.org/

That website's disclaimer is awesome, it begins

'The material contained in this website is for informational purposes only and no assumptions should be made regarding its accuracy. '

And goes an and gets better and better.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #4 on: 28 December, 2011, 09:23:10 am »
I had several episodes of  "muscle spasms" in my lower back over a five year period leaving me chairbound with a twisted spine. I kid you not. My chiro fixed me each time inside a week. The nearest thing to a miracle cure I've experienced.

The long term solution was pilates.

Rapples

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #5 on: 28 December, 2011, 09:23:10 am »
Anecdata: I've been seeing my chiropractor for years. She sorts me out when I tweak my back and am hurting. This is something that with horses I just do-correct posture doesn't help when you land awkwardly going over a jump or go splat!

Stop falling off

You know it makes sense O:-)

Andrij

  • Андрій
  • Ερασιτεχνικός μισάνθρωπος
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #6 on: 28 December, 2011, 09:41:31 am »
Frequently visited one when I was still in the US and for good reason - the visits helped.

Can't speak about other states, but in Ohio chiropractors go through a few years of study and must be licensed by the state medical board (same body regulating doctors, etc.) before they can practice.
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

plum

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #7 on: 28 December, 2011, 09:58:50 am »
Can't speak about other states, but in Ohio chiropractors ... must be licensed by the state medical board (same body regulating doctors, etc.) before they can practice.

I always question claims like this, and sure enough a quick google shows it to be untrue

http://www.med.ohio.gov/practitioner.htm

Chiropractry in Ohio is governed by the Ohio State Chiropractic Board, and licensing is done online, no [written] exams or personal enquiries made whatsoever.

http://chirobd.ohio.gov/Home.aspx

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #8 on: 28 December, 2011, 09:59:56 am »
Quacks!!!  No better than homeopathy!
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #9 on: 28 December, 2011, 10:18:40 am »
Never have, unlikely that I ever will.
Strikes me that everyone I know that has visited has had to make repeat visits.
I prefer the Physio & corrective core strengthening exercise.
Just can't see that snap crackle & pop can cure a problem.
I'm sure that it may get things back in line, but it needs muscle strength to hold it where it should be.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #10 on: 28 December, 2011, 10:28:25 am »
Chiro's need to be licensed in much the same way regular MDs are is because they mechanically manipulate your skeleton, especially the spine. If a Chiro get's it wrong they can do some serious damage. If a homeopathic docter gets it wrong your drink of water will taste funny.

I's also worth distinguishing between Chiropracty and Osteopathy. It seems to me there is an overlap but the Chiro's focus on the hands-on stuff so if you have something fairly specific that needs sorting go to a chiro; if it's a "vague feeling of unease" try an Osteo. Either way I'd try a pilates class. Most leisure centres offer a range of courses from beginner to advance, and they are generally inclusive ("free") if you are a member.

Andrij

  • Андрій
  • Ερασιτεχνικός μισάνθρωπος
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #11 on: 28 December, 2011, 10:29:02 am »
Can't speak about other states, but in Ohio chiropractors ... must be licensed by the state medical board (same body regulating doctors, etc.) before they can practice.

I always question claims like this, and sure enough a quick google shows it to be untrue

http://www.med.ohio.gov/practitioner.htm

Chiropractry in Ohio is governed by the Ohio State Chiropractic Board, and licensing is done online, no [written] exams or personal enquiries made whatsoever.

http://chirobd.ohio.gov/Home.aspx

OK, I misremembered.  I've been out of the country over 13 years and I'm woozy from this cold I'm fighting.  What I DO recall definitely is a good friend of mine studying and taking exams.  Maybe things have changed since then.  TBH, right now ICBA to look at the history. 

My contribution to the anecdata is this: I've had times I could hardly turn my head.  Visiting one of these 'quacks' sorted me out.
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

redshift

  • High Priestess of wires
    • redshift home
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #12 on: 28 December, 2011, 10:47:59 am »
Never tried chiro. I was carried into a sports physio's practice in 1998, and managed to walk out under my own steam after 20 minutes treatment, which was a miracle as far as I was concerned. I had three further sessions, including an RF bone heating treatment which included the direst warnings I've ever seen outside of laser operation.
His take on my injury was that I needed to do a number of specific exercises to maintain joint stability, and when I asked "how often, and for how long?" He said "Every day. For ever," so that I understood.
It sounds like an imposition, but as long as I maintain the regime of at least some form of those exercises (best variation so far has been aikido), and if not 'daily' at least 'regularly,' then I need no further treatment. The muscles help support the skeleton, and if you look after them, they look after it. I haven't needed treatment since.

I don't have any idea what Mrs Z has done to her back, and unless you get a real diagnosis, neither does she. Backs are a bugger when they're damaged. Mine happens to respond very well to good old fashioned exercise, as do many others. My take would be to get a real diagnosis if you haven't already, and if it responds to exercise find someone who will give you the tools to fix it yourself and actually do the bloody exercises. The number of people who think they're fixed, and then carry on with the same stupid behavior as before are astonishing. Including me.
L
:)
Windcheetah No. 176
The all-round entertainer gets quite arsey,
They won't translate his lame shit into Farsi
Somehow to let it go would be more classy…

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #13 on: 28 December, 2011, 11:52:06 am »
Usually I'm one of life's great sceptics, but I can say that for me Chiropractic works - I damaged my neck many years ago (by resting a white-water raft on my head, but that's another story) - and subsequently got a lot of problems - sorted completely by the chiropractor.
A few years ago I started getting sciatica - again sorted after a few sessions with the chiropractor

Now, the problem with all treatment at a personal level is that you can't do the control experiment and many conditions are self limiting anyway - but all I can say is that for me it works.

Some further corroboration - Mrs Bartonflyer is a consultant psychiatrist and she too goes to our chiropractor with any back or leg problems rather than for conventional medicine - it works for her also

And neither of us believe in homeopathy  ;D honest!!

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #14 on: 28 December, 2011, 12:14:10 pm »
I had several episodes of  "muscle spasms" in my lower back over a five year period which left me chairbound with a twisted spine. I kid you not. My chiro fixed me inside a week. The nearest thing to a miracle cure I've experienced.

The long term solution was pilates.

+1

Good exercise, once you've learned some of the basics you can do it with no or minimal equipment at home if you want*, improves core strength and posture. It hasn't cured my back and hamstring problems but over the last year it's kept me mobile.

* a once a week class is good motivation.

I did try a chiropractor on my doctors advice and it was all nice and gentle but I never felt it was doing me a lot of good (though your experience may vary).
“There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.”
― Douglas Adams

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #15 on: 28 December, 2011, 12:24:13 pm »
Maybe useful.  Quite possibly harmful.

No Scientific Basis Whatsoever.
Getting there...

Tail End Charlie

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #16 on: 28 December, 2011, 12:47:57 pm »
I wouldn't go to a chiropractor. I have in the past, but have since had a good explanation from a sports physio as to what they do.
Basically if anyone says "I'll just click you back" or similar or has you in a position where they are about to put their body weight on you, get up and walk away, the body isn't designed for that.

Pilates and other core strengthening takes time, but it's what you need to prevent re-occurrence.

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #17 on: 28 December, 2011, 12:55:49 pm »
Maybe useful.  Quite possibly harmful.

No Scientific Basis Whatsoever.

Except for perhaps tapping into centuries of accumulated human anatomical & neuro-musculoskeletal knowledge*; existing in an overlap zone with physios - but with perhaps a different overall 'philosophy'..?

* OK - maybe putting this a tad strongly...

--

My 2p...I personally know someone who was up for a lower back vertebrae fusion op - having seen consultants etc... back problem was sorted by chiro visits.

Never been to one myself -  though have a friend who's just qualified, and so met some of their friends - one of which is doing a 'chiro' PhD in skeletal related issues at a Uni.  I suppose some may go to chiros first rather than GP/hospital - they are apparently trained to pick-up symptoms that require clinical investigation... 

Apparently beware of chiros who view you as an opportunity to see you for too long/high a frequency.

Homeopathy is a totally different kettle of fish.  Infinite dilutions and molecular memory...  hum.
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #18 on: 28 December, 2011, 01:04:32 pm »
OK, andy, there's the vaguely understood, half-assimmilated knowledge.

I'd prefer a Physiotherapist, who is professioanlly qualified and properly responsible. 

Chiros conduct all sorts of dangerous practices.  Mostly they get away with it.
Getting there...

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #19 on: 28 December, 2011, 01:10:15 pm »
OK, andy, there's the vaguely understood, half-assimmilated knowledge.

I'd prefer a Physiotherapist, who is professioanlly qualified and properly responsible. 

Chiros conduct all sorts of dangerous practices.  Mostly they get away with it.

That would be my first port of call too (via GP).  mrs ao has had tennis shoulder issues fixed by physio and by actually managing to stick to the exercises recommended. 

I had a physio friend and chiro friend (later) look at my frozen shoulder on separate occasions, and I was impressed by chiro friends approach and knowledge.  I have a feeling that the Frozen shoulder resolved on its own - and by me giving up tennis and badminton for the duration.

Dangerous practices?
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #20 on: 28 December, 2011, 01:12:59 pm »
Getting there...

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #21 on: 28 December, 2011, 01:17:54 pm »
Further links from the UKskeptics site:
http://www.chirowatch.com/
http://www.chirobase.org/
http://gmweb1.net/

Which include information about those injured and killed by Chiropractic.  Sure, these are websites with a particular stance, so read them with that filter, but there is easily enough there for me to advise anyone I care about (including forum members and their loved ones) to avoid this dangerous and unscientific practice.

By comparison, eating sugar pills and drinking specially treated water is nothing.
Getting there...

Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #22 on: 28 December, 2011, 01:26:10 pm »
http://www.ukskeptics.com/chiropractic.php

is a good overview.

Just to sound a note of caution about some website claims...

Quote
Anti-vaccination stance.

Chiropractic is based on the idea that all disease is the result of subluxations. It does not agree with the germ theory of disease, and it also rejects the idea of vaccination.

I know my chiro friend, who has a BSc and worked for various international relief agencies for many years would have a major problem accepting the above quote...  Perhaps some in chiro do think this...  ???
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #23 on: 28 December, 2011, 01:33:27 pm »
Woo with a basis in musculo-skeletal jibble that anecdatally seems to be effective as a quick fix for some musculo-skeletal problems.  I expect a physiotherapist would be able to achieve the same thing.  Once they go beyond spine-poking and start peddling the usual guff about, eg. curing asthma, if only you'd give up caffeine and use their special neck pillow, you know it's woo.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Chiropractors
« Reply #24 on: 28 December, 2011, 01:34:50 pm »
Well, you see, there's the problem with Chiropractic, andy.  It's a moving mishmash of half-science/three-quarters woo.
Getting there...