Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?

[zigzag]

regarding health benefits - i think it is important to watch closely what you eat being vegetarian. when my oh worked in obstetrics and gynecology unit, some (much bigger than meat eaters) proportion of veggie patients were with mild anaemia and low iron levels, which is not good during pregnancy. i'm sure they could all be healthy had they known what/how much to eat. but apparently it's not so obvious for some vegetarians?..

[Butterfly]

One thing I would say helps - have a big freezer and cook enough for today and the freezer. A lot of stews, soups, pasta sauce, fajita sauce and the like freeze really well and it's not much harder to make a large quantity than a small one once you've started. That means you have lots of quick and easy things for when you can't be bothered to peel anything .

It also means you can buy a load of veg on Friday, cook three different things on Saturday and not have spinach going slimy in the fridge for the rest of the week whilst you come home from work too tired to cook and eat heinz tomato soup or baked potato for the 4th time in a week .

[NikW]

regarding health benefits - i think it is important to watch closely what you eat being vegetarian. when my oh worked in obstetrics and gynecology unit, some (much bigger than meat eaters) proportion of veggie patients were with mild anaemia and low iron levels, which is not good during pregnancy. i'm sure they could all be healthy had they known what/how much to eat. but apparently it's not so obvious for some vegetarians?..

One of the issues with getting enough iron that some new vegans seem to struggle with is the difference between haem iron from animal produce and everyday iron from apricots and the like. It's apparently easier to process and store haem iron so not so necessary to have it most days (though some studies suggest haem iron can increase the risk of heart disease in vulnerable people). There's also all sorts of issues with iron take up being inhibited by vitamin C and fibre and other stuff veggies tend to have lots of.

Like you say they could all be healthy but to be a healthy veggie you do need proper dietary info (as do the much larger proportion of the population who suffer ill health due to over consumption of animal produce),

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

One thing I would say helps - have a big freezer and cook enough for today and the freezer. A lot of stews, soups, pasta sauce, fajita sauce and the like freeze really well and it's not much harder to make a large quantity than a small one once you've started. That means you have lots of quick and easy things for when you can't be bothered to peel anything .

It also means you can buy a load of veg on Friday, cook three different things on Saturday and not have spinach going slimy in the fridge for the rest of the week whilst you come home from work too tired to cook and eat heinz tomato soup or baked potato for the 4th time in a week .

Yes, definitely that. I spent a couple of hours the other day cooking and freezing lentil stew and tagine, to put next to the soup and curry already in there. It's a very comforting feeling to have a week's worth of meals in the freezer.

[zoxed]

You already have lots of good advice here, but I will chip in to say that I am vegy since 1985 and vegan since the mid-90s. I find being veg* easy at home, but being vegan can be a problem when you go out (esp. in small town Germany!).
I cycle lots and have not had any diet related problems over these years, even though I probably do not eat enough fruit, and probably eat too much biscuits and coffee !!
I take vegan multi-vitamin pills and also 2 vegan protein/fruit shakes a day when training, more as insurance as I do not know how to evaluate if my diet is really deficient or not !!
Good luck in your experimentation, and I would suggest ignoring any negative comments you may get from those around you (in the 'real' world) and look for friends and advice online !! (where the unusual becomes usual !)

[nicknack]

you do need proper dietary info (as do the much larger proportion of the population who suffer ill health due to over consumption of animal produce),

Figures?

[mattc]

Yep, it figures.

[nicknack]

Yep, it figures.

 

Yes, it was a bit lazy of me.

How about:

Do you have some figures to back up that assertion, please?

(Responding to NikW feels rather like responding to myself)

[mattc]

Being serious now, it seemed like a vague-but-reasonable assertion to me! To explain:
Obesity is pretty much our biggest health problem in this country (it leads to heart problems and other big killers).
Obesity is most often due to over-eating.
Veg/vegans are in the minority.
Meat-produce packs a lot more calories than veg/salad.
QED!

Is there a specific part of that argument you disagree with? (I know i made a number of simplifications on the way). Sometimes you don't need numbers, YACF isn't a science journal

[NikW]

you do need proper dietary info (as do the much larger proportion of the population who suffer ill health due to over consumption of animal produce),

Figures?

As you say it's all about figures in particular the surplus of rotund ones with BMIs over 25 and the diabetes, heart problems, poor quality of life etc etc that go with excess weight. These people are a much larger proportion of the population and the majority over consume animal produce. I'll let you do the Googling if you really want numbers - there are plenty out there to prove just about anything you want regarding healthy diets.

Do note I say 'over consumption of animal produce' in an attempt to counter balance the point about under consumption on non-haem iron. I'm not suggesting people suffer ill health due to moderate consumption of animal produce, nor am I suggesting that some people don't get obese on a diet of vegan chips and chocolate but I do think you'll find these are a small minority. As I said in an earlier post I'm not one of those who claim a veggie/vegan diet is inherently healthier than a well informed omnivorous one though I'd change my stance on that if reliable, unbiased, evidence emerged.

[nicknack]

Are you saying that obesity is caused by over consumption of animal products alone? What about sugar, other carbs, non-animal fat - all high in calories?

[clarion]

Shall we also discuss bowel cancer?

And yes, obesity rates are much higher in meat eaters, along with the consequent long term conditions.  Though this may be because vegetarians are, naturally, more conscious of what they are eating.

[mattc]

Are you saying that obesity is caused by over consumption of animal products alone? What about sugar, other carbs, non-animal fat - all high in calories?

I think he's saying that MOST over-consumers do it via mainly animal products.

(Most of us know from experience that the average obese person is not simply overdoing flapjacks, boiled potatoes and bananas.)

Clarion is "in the business", so if he's seen relevant figures, that is good enough for me (as a start).

[NikW]

Are you saying that obesity is caused by over consumption of animal products alone? What about sugar, other carbs, non-animal fat - all high in calories?

No of course I'm not, where do you think I said that. Perhaps you should go back and reread what I wrote, preferably the whole sentence rather than just the bit you quoted.

I'll try rephrasing:

I agree with zigzag's point that iron deficient veggies could be healthy veggies if they we're better informed about what they eat. The point about dietary info also applies to the larger proportion of the population who are unhealthy due to over consumption of animal produce as opposed to the under consumption which might contribute to iron defficiency.

[hellymedic]

People get fat if their energy input > energy output.
It is easier to overeat if foods have a high energy density.
Some foods of animal origin have a high energy density.
Some foods of vegetable origin have a high energy density.
The foods with the lowest natural energy density are all of vegetable origin.

[Jakob]

The point about dietary info also applies to the larger proportion of the population who are unhealthy due to over consumption of animal produce

I question that this is actually correct?. How big a percentage of the average persons calorie intake comes from meat (and associated fat), compared to grains & sugar?. Is there any real numbers on this?.

[NikW]

Are you saying that obesity is caused by over consumption of animal products alone? What about sugar, other carbs, non-animal fat - all high in calories?

I think he's saying that MOST over-consumers do it via mainly animal products. ..

Not really Matt. I was only referring to those who specifically "... suffer ill-health due to over consumption of animal produce".

[NikW]

The point about dietary info also applies to the larger proportion of the population who are unhealthy due to over consumption of animal produce

I question that this is actually correct?. How big a percentage of the average persons calorie intake comes from meat (and associated fat), compared to grains & sugar?. Is there any real numbers on this?.

Can you please quote my whole sentence, you've convenietly cut the bit where I state what the proportion is larger than. Are you seriously suggesting that the proportion of the population who are unhealthy as a result of over consumption of animal produce does not exceed that who suffer iron deficiency as a result of a poor vegetarian diet?

[Jakob]

The point about dietary info also applies to the larger proportion of the population who are unhealthy due to over consumption of animal produce

I question that this is actually correct?. How big a percentage of the average persons calorie intake comes from meat (and associated fat), compared to grains & sugar?. Is there any real numbers on this?.

Can you please quote my whole sentence, you've convenietly cut the bit where I state what the proportion is larger than. Are you seriously suggesting that the proportion of the population who are unhealthy as a result of over consumption of animal produce does not exceed that who suffer iron deficiency as a result of a poor vegetarian diet?

No. I question that very specific claim that a large part of the of the unhealthy population consume too many animal products, as opposed to too much grain & sugar.

[NikW]

The point about dietary info also applies to the larger proportion of the population who are unhealthy due to over consumption of animal produce

I question that this is actually correct?. How big a percentage of the average persons calorie intake comes from meat (and associated fat), compared to grains & sugar?. Is there any real numbers on this?.

Can you please quote my whole sentence, you've convenietly cut the bit where I state what the proportion is larger than. Are you seriously suggesting that the proportion of the population who are unhealthy as a result of over consumption of animal produce does not exceed that who suffer iron deficiency as a result of a poor vegetarian diet?

No. I question that very specific claim that a large part of the of the unhealthy population consume too many animal products, as opposed to too much grain & sugar.

Yes I'd question that claim too if anyone made it.

[nicknack]

Are you seriously suggesting that the proportion of the population who are unhealthy as a result of over consumption of animal produce does not exceed that who suffer iron deficiency as a result of a poor vegetarian diet?

Proportion of the population perhaps, because there are many more meat eaters. I'd not be so sure about the relative proportions within the groups.

[Donkey]

Would the web masters of this forum like to conduct an online survey of what % of yacf members:
1. eat meat
2. Do not eat meat

When we get the figures; Discuss 

[NikW]

Are you seriously suggesting that the proportion of the population who are unhealthy as a result of over consumption of animal produce does not exceed that who suffer iron deficiency as a result of a poor vegetarian diet?

Proportion of the population perhaps, because there are many more meat eaters. I'd not be so sure about the relative proportions within the groups.

Well 'proportion of the population' is what I said still not sure what your point is.

The relative health of veggies, vegans and omnivores is a huge subject and it's just about impossible to separate the dietary factors from the socio-economic. Not something we are going to get to the bottom of on this forum and not something I have an opinion on.

[Andyf]

I gave up arguing for and against veggie/vegan diets years ago, and generally keep my personal dietry habits to my self, but going back to the origanal question of the thread here goes......
My experience of being veggi, Started when I was burning the candle at both ends with a blow torch in my early 20's, met the future Mrs andyf who was/is veggie and put me on salads and veggies instead of Mcdonalds, fags and booze (never gave up the booze though )
Became a 99% veggie for years yet my not so good health and panic attacks never stopped, untill I went to see a kinesiologist who said my body was craving for protien and my adrinal glands and other organs where over sensative because of it, and with to much simple sugers and carbs in my diet (and no exersise)
She started me on protien shakes and with in a week or so the panic attacks that I had suffered for years ( thinking I had a mental illness/stress and taking shit loads of herbal chill out tablets/sprays) just floated away....................
So my point is you need to listen to you body, some of us are natural veggies/vegans and others like me need to be carefull to keep things in-balance.

[Gandalf]

Is it just me that finds the term 'veggie' irritating?