Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: Martin on 01 October, 2015, 04:55:56 pm
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About time too :thumbsup:
just a thought; the big piles of currently free bags next to the self service checkouts in Tesco etc, how are they supposed to know if you've taken one (or even 10)?
better idea would be that if you don't press the "I brought my own bag" button (which in my case corresponds to "I don't want one but I'll have the 1 green point for not using one thanks") it adds 5p to the bill ;)
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I expect this means that I'm going to have to start buying bin liners. Or continue as normal and pay for the bags.
Not that that's really a problem, given the abundant evidence in every hedgerow that many people don't seem to manage to re-use bags. >:(
What do green points mean?
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I don't think it's so much about collecting the 5 pences, more about encouraging a change in culture.
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I don't think it's so much about collecting the 5 pences, more about encouraging a change in culture.
Indeed. As soon as the bag becomes not-free, people are more likely to re-use it, or use something else.
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Tesco have been giving away their "bags for life" but will start to charge for them again next week.
Sainsbury's stopped giving points for own bags a while ago, around the same time that they put up the price of tinned pineapple by 25%! :(
Apart from a couple of occasions I've been own bagging since '91. :thumbsup:
Green points, is that a Co-op scheme?
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the plastic is devastating to wildlife
but its okay if you pay 5p for a bag
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It's okay if you don't buy a plastic bag, which is what's being encouraged by charging for them.
Shame paper bags aren't more common in the UK, I think.
1 Tesco Green point = 1 normal point, but listed separately on your statement to make you feel green.
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they'll still be disposable at 5p, people aren't more thoughtful of the environment because they can afford 5p bags
I agree, all bags should be like the old strong paper variety.
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they'll still be disposable at 5p, people aren't more thoughtful of the environment because they can afford 5p bags
They're more thoughtful of being wasteful with their 5ps, though, which has the same effect. You can't carelessly dispose of a bag you haven't bought.
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I don't think this will impact the carnage these things cause. If 50% of the purchased bags get thrown away, it's still enough to kill wildlife. I can't see why plastic is used when brown paper things can do the same job, then they can be recycled or at least degrade and not strangle or choke things.
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the plastic is devastating to wildlife
but its okay if you pay 5p for a bag
Careless disposal of plastic bags is devastating to wildlife. Reuse and recycling minimise the effect on wildlife.
Charging 5p can reduce wanton wastefulness and introduce some thought into the purchasing process.
I am still trying to work out the practicalities of receiving my groceries without bags without delaying the delivery driver, inconveniencing partner or damaging some fragile items.
Bags are currently returned for recycling if not used as bin liners/laundry bags/pannier liners etc.
We minimise our plastic waste as much as we can.
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Since they introduced the same scheme in Wales in 2011 the number of single use plastic bags used has gone down by 70% so charging 5p has a massive effect out of all proportion to the actual cost of the bags. It shifts the way people think.
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they'll still be disposable at 5p, people aren't more thoughtful of the environment because they can afford 5p bags
I bet you 5p they'll be a significant reduction in the number of bags issued, especially at supermarkets where people (including me, I'm afraid) have been grabbing ten or fifteen bags at a time. I won't want to pay 50p extra, so I'll more often take my own proper bags shopping. Even the odd single 5p will influence me sometimes. It's not that I can't afford 5p, it's just that I don't think one of those silly flimsy little bags is worth 5p!
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the plastic is devastating to wildlife
but its okay if you pay 5p for a bag
Careless disposal of plastic bags is devastating to wildlife. Reuse and recycling minimise the effect on wildlife.
Charging 5p can reduce wanton wastefulness and introduce some thought into the purchasing process.
I am still trying to work out the practicalities of receiving my groceries without bags without delaying the delivery driver, inconveniencing partner or damaging some fragile items.
Bags are currently returned for recycling if not used as bin liners/laundry bags/pannier liners etc.
We minimise our plastic waste as much as we can.
Similarly, I only acquire plastic bags when doing a Big Horriblemarket (or random shop) shop. Most of our day to day shopping is at Aldi, and I re-use Horriblemarket bags to simplify handling and prevent leaks in hard-to-clean panniers. They go into the plastic bags bag for re-use, ending the cycle when either get given to someone who needs a thing wrapped in a plastic bag, they fall apart, or get used as bin liners.
The difference in shopping habits I notice most at Aldi, compared to the other supermarkets, is that disorganised shoppers will go to much greater lengths to carry their shopping with a minimum of 5p bags. Organised shoppers bring their own durable or re-used bags. The other thing is that the staff aren't foisting extra bags on you by doing your packing for you, as they tend to in smaller supermarkets when a queue forms.
I expect this will mean a few less bags flapping about in hedges, which can only be a good thing.
I'm not sure about paper bags... the ones without handles are probably more wildlife-friendly, but I doubt the total environmental cost is clear-cut when you consider the energy involved. And they're less good at containing leaks, which is the main reason for wanting plastic bags in the first place.
What I do miss is the big pen of useful cardboard boxes that supermarkets used to have for the taking. It seems to me that the wholesale packaging is much less conducive to re-use these days (cardboard tray + shrink-wrap being typical, rather than a box), and it just goes straight to recycling.
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It's a reminder what a horribly indulgent society we've become. Why sell disposable plastic bags? I doubt many of the people who favour chucking them in hedges are really that bothered about 5p. Sure, nice folks might, but they're not the ones using that favoured disposal route. Is it that hard to buy a reusable bag and reuse it?
It's a grim reminder living on a school route. Pretty much none of the kids think twice about dropping whatever wrapped the piece of junk they've shoved into their gobs or the bottle or can of whatever sugar solutions they've just glugged. Everything is disposable. I come home with two hands full of litter every day.
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the majority on here (and even some people who don't visit here :o) are sensible and will recycle their bags for other purposes. Its the small percent of idiots that won't recycle, or care.
the 5p will have an effect, but it still doesn't sort the carrier bag problem out
another thing to look at is the bigger worldwide problem with plastics. The UK is a tiny dot that recycles things and the nation as a whole does other green things to help the environment.
The rest of the world couldn't give a flying f**k, take a walk along a beach in any country.
The 5p is a tax that won't cure the problem it's aimed at. The issue needs fixing, not bodging.
Nothing will change my mind about plastics. I've seen what it does to wildlife and it's not nice.
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Unlike some other plastics, at least the modern flimsy shop bags break up in UV light to somewhat reduce the strangling and choking hazard to wildlife, although they don't degrade completely. Microscopic plastic particles are found everywhere, even in the sea - possibly a more fundamental problem in the long run for wildlife that is effectively forced to eat the stuff, and us who eat the wildlife.
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Carrier bags are surely the tip of the plastics iceberg, in the global scheme of things.
It is, after all, the primary component of lqt (as they say in uk.rec.sheds). I don't know how anyone can make a real difference in that globally. It's only going to become prohibitively expensive *after* the shit hits the fan because oil becomes too expensive to burn.
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It's a reminder what a horribly indulgent society we've become. Why sell disposable plastic bags? I doubt many of the people who favour chucking them in hedges are really that bothered about 5p.
Ian. Hopefully you will be surprised. It's been four years in Wales, and now you just don't see bags in the hedgerows anymore. 1
It didn't happen overnight, but as I said up thread, it's not about the five p, its about making people think.
Asking for bags at the check out should be illustrated with a " The Man Who" H. M. Bateman cartoon.
1 OK, there's still the dog poo bag fruit, but that's another issue.
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Ian. Hopefully you will be surprised. It's been four years in Wales, and now you just don't see bags in the hedgerows anymore.
This is one of the really striking things about cycling in Wales. In the Midlands you're never more than a hundred metres of verge from the next plastic bag, coke bottle, nappy or McDonald's wrapper. In rural Wales you can go for miles without seeing anything that looks obviously discarded (as opposed to fallen-off-the-back-of-the-van items). At one point on last year's tour I started properly looking for rubbish, and eventually - on the way in to the next village - came across a rosette for third place in a being-a-cow competition that had been held the previous week.
Dog poo bags are more of an urban phenomenon, of course. The bulk of hedgerow litter comes from motorists who don't give a fuck.
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This is something we were really struck by in France this year. Little or any litter in the verges and hedgerows. Or anywhere much, really. They just don't seem to do it. Must be a Brit Thing.
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I'd like to blame public litter bins for being non-existent[1] or overflowing, but I suspect the real answer is that most people just don't give a crap.
[1] Brits have been removing public litter bins because terrorism for years before it was the trendy catch-all excuse for things.
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I am still trying to work out the practicalities of receiving my groceries without bags without delaying the delivery driver, inconveniencing partner or damaging some fragile items.
Bags are currently returned for recycling if not used as bin liners/laundry bags/pannier liners etc.
We choose
"delay the driver".
We have our own crates etc by the front door, so it's a pretty small delay.
Now obv you will delay the driver more than us, but I suspect:
- its a tiny amount relative to costs/profits of vendor, and
- most drivers would be very understanding of your circs, especially if you are a regular. (if they get stroppy? well, what have you lost? f**k 'em! )
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Our drivers know us well; There are at least three 'regulars'.
Partner did ask about bagless deliveries. They do delay things.
I think we'll acquire some boxes/crates.
Eventually.
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Obvious solution: For a small deposit they could let you keep the delivery trays until next time.
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Obvious solution: For a small deposit they could let you keep the delivery trays until next time.
I think Waitrose are lending crates out. Sainsbury's are not AIUI.
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About time too :thumbsup:
just a thought; the big piles of currently free bags next to the self service checkouts in Tesco etc, how are they supposed to know if you've taken one (or even 10)?
better idea would be that if you don't press the "I bought my own bag" button (which in my case corresponds to "I don't want one but I'll have the 1 green point for not using one thanks") it adds 5p to the bill ;)
I often press "yes I brought my own bag", my rucksack with my gym kit in, thanks.... I'm also taking one of yours, to put my shopping in. That wasn't what you asked...
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Obvious solution: For a small deposit they could let you keep the delivery trays until next time.
Not sure that would work - the Ocado tote bins are SO useful to store stuff in the garage/loft :demon:
Rob
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The Ocado man came today - they've obviously been trained/primed on how it'll work from the 5p charge starting ... seems like they'll say you have x bags with this delivery - and I've taken y bags from you for recycling = where x is arranged to match y - with a net effect of not supplying any bags, or charging. It may look like a fiddle but it does makes sense. As the chap was OK with it I actually unloaded the stuff from bags in the hall (I'll have some boxes ready next time) and gave him back the empty bags plus the ones from last time.
All this about bags is interesting BUT should have been applied to all shops not just those with >250 employees - that's just stupid. The other interesting question is how is Poundland going to deal with the 5p charge???
AND what about the other major blights on our landscape ... plastic bottles and drink cans? Perhaps we'll have what is seen in New York and other places - tramps with a supermarket cart collecting empties for which they receive a few cents at the recyling centre (part funded I understand by the local authority as an investment in litter reduction)
Rob
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The Ocado man came today - they've obviously been trained/primed on how it'll work from the 5p charge starting ... seems like they'll say you have x bags with this delivery - and I've taken y bags from you for recycling = where x is arranged to match y - with a net effect of not supplying any bags, or charging. It may look like a fiddle but it does makes sense.
Good. I wonder if Sainsbury's will do the same?
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Got an email in the last few weeks from asda explaining their process for when charging for bags comes in they are charging a flat 50p (I think) or they can leave the crates & collect later.
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AND what about the other major blights on our landscape ... plastic bottles and drink cans? Perhaps we'll have what is seen in New York and other places - tramps with a supermarket cart collecting empties for which they receive a few cents at the recyling centre (part funded I understand by the local authority as an investment in litter reduction)
Germany does something similar, too. The €1.15 you pay, say, for a 500ml bottle of Coke includes a 15c deposit. Then you take them to the supermarket, scan the barcodes on the bottles as you put them in the recycling bin, and the machine gives you a receipt to get the deposits back as a discount on your shopping.
(As I'm only there for a day or two and don't go anywhere near a supermarket, I leave mine on a colleague's desk who takes them with hers.)
I'd like to see something similar here.
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This is something we were really struck by in France this year. Little or any litter in the verges and hedgerows. Or anywhere much, really. They just don't seem to do it. Must be a Brit Thing.
It's pretty awful in the UK, outside of the developing world, litter here is probably the worst I've seen. I don't know if other places clean it up or we just uniquely don't give a shit. It's all pretty much the same types of rubbish: chocolate wrappers, crisp bags, bottles and cans, junk food packaging, and the carriers bags it probably came in.
Edit, I'm tempted to write to the school tbh and tell them to sponsor a weekly clean up. Probably against the kids' human rights or something.
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Kids have always been like that. Back in the 80s I took some youth club kids cycling. We stopped in a bus shelter for food and they simply dropped what ever packaging. I shouted 'Oi!', and they looked completely baffled.
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Obvious solution: For a small deposit they could let you keep the delivery trays until next time.
This is what I do.
No deposit.
Just 'Leave me a crate mate and we'll swap next time you deliver. Saves your time and mine'
So far it has worked faultlessly.
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The Ocado man came today - they've obviously been trained/primed on how it'll work from the 5p charge starting ... seems like they'll say you have x bags with this delivery - and I've taken y bags from you for recycling = where x is arranged to match y - with a net effect of not supplying any bags, or charging. It may look like a fiddle but it does makes sense.
Good. I wonder if Sainsbury's will do the same?
Doesn't look like it.
Things might change if they perceive losing customers over this.
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they'll still be disposable at 5p, people aren't more thoughtful of the environment because they can afford 5p bags
I agree, all bags should be like the old strong paper variety.
sadly the paper bags although more recyclable cost more in eco terms than the plastic if you only use them once
or something...
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they'll still be disposable at 5p, people aren't more thoughtful of the environment because they can afford 5p bags
I agree, all bags should be like the old strong paper variety.
sadly the paper bags although more recyclable cost more in eco terms than the plastic if you only use them once
or something...
Does that take account of the indestructibility of plastic and the consequent long-term effects?
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I often press "yes I brought my own bag", my rucksack with my gym kit in, thanks.... I'm also taking one of yours, to put my shopping in. That wasn't what you asked...
The purpose of that question is usually to allow you to add something to the 'bagging area' without the machine freaking out. In Wales, the machine asks again at the end, with the more specific question, 'How many bags have you used?'
It does reduce bag usage. Instead of the cashier throwing 15 bags at everyone, they have to specifically ask how many you want. It focuses the mind to make people more mindful of what they are doing. It doesn't solve the problem, but it reduces it. That makes it worth doing. I'm slightly baffled at the implication that it isn't worth doing because it won't solve the issue entirely. ???
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Obvious solution: For a small deposit they could let you keep the delivery trays until next time.
I asked Tesco about this on numerous occasions and they were unwilling to leave trays with me, so I kept getting the bags. For me they were always saved and re-used as rubbish bags when camping.
Now I've started shopping at Lidl I suspect I'm going to have to buy bin bags as I don't have any spare to use for rubbish.
I'm still not totally convinced that this isn't some plan just to get the supermarkets off the hook, I remember it being a big deal in the early 80's persuading shops to provide free bags. It seems such a small thing to focus on when most people really are re-using these bags anyway and most if not all are bio-degradable.
I wish there was a simple way of disposing of rubbish without needing bags.
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I wish there was a simple way of disposing of rubbish without needing bags.
There is; however it's neither environmentally-sound nor legal :demon:
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AND what about the other major blights on our landscape ... plastic bottles and drink cans? Perhaps we'll have what is seen in New York and other places - tramps with a supermarket cart collecting empties for which they receive a few cents at the recyling centre (part funded I understand by the local authority as an investment in litter reduction)
Germany does something similar, too. The €1.15 you pay, say, for a 500ml bottle of Coke includes a 15c deposit. Then you take them to the supermarket, scan the barcodes on the bottles as you put them in the recycling bin, and the machine gives you a receipt to get the deposits back as a discount on your shopping.
(As I'm only there for a day or two and don't go anywhere near a supermarket, I leave mine on a colleague's desk who takes them with hers.)
I'd like to see something similar here.
Several years ago, I read of a Polish bloke who toured to the northernmost point of Norway. Because he was a) unemployed b) from one of Europe's cheaper, lower-income countries c) in one of the most expensive countries, he was pretty skint. So he financed himself by collecting soft drink cans which you can then feed into machines for 1 kronor per tin. Apparently he was able to get by quite well like this. So clearly if you're as rich as a Norwegian, deposits on cans don't stop you chucking them out the car window.
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Back to plastic bags: apparently South Africa (or maybe it was just one of its provinces) banned disposable bags completely. You can still get the tougher, reusable ones – I don't know if you have to pay for them – but because people hang on to them and because they're tougher, they don't become windblown litter.
This summer we were in Austria, Czech Rep and Poland, and in all those countries we were not offered free carrier bags. There were only tough, reusable ones for a small charge. Still got a few... too many to sensibly use, really. Clearly not an ideal solution but a step.
As for litter generally, I really don't think it's a Brit phenonomenon. Lots of litter in Polish towns. But one thing that had cleared up recently over there is fly tipping; the edge of the forest used to be a rubbish dump of discarded furniture, old TVs and car parts. What's improved that is the introduction of a regular rubbish collection (even though it's only once a month and is an opt-in service charged separately from other local taxes) and better access to the tip.
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Big rise in fly tipping around Birmingham this year, as a direct result of the council charging for green waste collections. This has caused enormous queueueueueueueus for the council waste sites, to the point where they've had to deploy barriers to contain the resulting traffic jams.
As a result, it's not just green waste that's being fly-tipped. Indeed, much of the green waste is being burnt, with varying degrees of competence.
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In Polish villages, it's traditional to burn all waste. But only in the winter.
Also, Kim: What's "lqt as they say in sheds" in your post upthread?
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Also, Kim: What's "lqt as they say in sheds" in your post upthread?
Low Quality Tat. As distinct from Top Quality Tat, which is the main constituent of shedspace on account that it might come in useful for molishing.
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they'll still be disposable at 5p, people aren't more thoughtful of the environment because they can afford 5p bags
I agree, all bags should be like the old strong paper variety.
sadly the paper bags although more recyclable cost more in eco terms than the plastic if you only use them once
or something...
Does that take account of the indestructibility of plastic and the consequent long-term effects?
very true; I saw a poster once saying that a plastic bag would last as long as the fossils of the dinosaurs, and would people go to look at plastic bags in museums in 65 million years?
the deposit on cans and bottles is a very good idea, saw it all the time in Sweden, but wasn't much use for cycle touring IIRC as you had to post the empty bottle back at the shop you bought it to get a deposit for that store only (not sure if was that store or that chain)
back in the days of Corona bottles I would spend my summer holidays scouring the housing estate that was under construction, usually netted about 25p a day at 5p a bottle;
I think I bought my first ever LP Aladdin Sane this way
If you were lucky enough to find a Whites soda syphon you were in big money; 75p IIRC
Strange how different our attitudes are to the Victorians, I used to scour local river banks for old bottle tips, Codd bottles were the real must-have at the time, but were always smashed so kids could pinch the little glass balls for marbles
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Also, Kim: What's "lqt as they say in sheds" in your post upthread?
Low Quality Tat. As distinct from Top Quality Tat, which is the main constituent of shedspace on account that it might come in useful for molishing.
Ah... I was thinking along the lines of lpg and wondering if the q was some petrochemical or just "-quified"!
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A pound for twenty Tesco bin liners is still a bargain.
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I like to be subversive with my reusable bags- I take the Lidl ones to Waitrose and the Waitrose ones to Lidl...
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AND what about the other major blights on our landscape ... plastic bottles and drink cans? Perhaps we'll have what is seen in New York and other places - tramps with a supermarket cart collecting empties for which they receive a few cents at the recyling centre (part funded I understand by the local authority as an investment in litter reduction)
Germany does something similar, too. The €1.15 you pay, say, for a 500ml bottle of Coke includes a 15c deposit. Then you take them to the supermarket, scan the barcodes on the bottles as you put them in the recycling bin, and the machine gives you a receipt to get the deposits back as a discount on your shopping.
(As I'm only there for a day or two and don't go anywhere near a supermarket, I leave mine on a colleague's desk who takes them with hers.)
I'd like to see something similar here.
... just the same as back in the 1950s/early 60s when everything was in glass bottles (beer, Tizer, Corona lemonade, Irn Bru etc) - a very disciplined approach to taking the bottles back to get the deposit refunded (a source of extra pocket money for me :thumbsup: ) - although in reality the massive growth in volumes would make it a bit of a nightmare for the retailer to handle the money and the storage of bottles awaiting collection.
Rob
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It's pretty awful in the UK, outside of the developing world, litter here is probably the worst I've seen. I don't know if other places clean it up or we just uniquely don't give a shit. It's all pretty much the same types of rubbish: chocolate wrappers, crisp bags, bottles and cans, junk food packaging, and the carriers bags it probably came in.
Edit, I'm tempted to write to the school tbh and tell them to sponsor a weekly clean up. Probably against the kids' human rights or something.
.... there's a bit of a country lane on one of our regular ride routes, miles from anywhere at Gaydon/Kineton, that must be at the optimum distance for the cooling and final consumption of McDonalds coffee - the verge is always knee-deep in cardboard cups .... I must measure how far it is from Banbury as that must the culprit.
Rob
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I like to be subversive with my reusable bags- I take the Lidl ones to Waitrose and the Waitrose ones to Lidl...
I've got a Safeway big re-useable bag from Canada, I don't suppose anybody notices that they haven't existed in the UK for several years though
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I use Onya reusable bags for my going-to-the-shops shopping. For online deliveries, I request delivery with bags, and then use the plastic bags for lining bins.
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Mr Sainsbury's House of Toothy Comestibles used to sell you solid plastic crates-with-handles, which could be fitted neatly into special trolleys, but no-one except Lt. Col. Larrington (retd.) seems to use them any more (and he only does when Dr Larrington or me is available to drive him to the horriblemarket).
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Big rise in fly tipping around Birmingham this year, as a direct result of the council charging for green waste collections. This has caused enormous queueueueueueueus for the council waste sites, to the point where they've had to deploy barriers to contain the resulting traffic jams.
As a result, it's not just green waste that's being fly-tipped. Indeed, much of the green waste is being burnt, with varying degrees of competence.
https://consultations.oxfordshire.gov.uk/consult.ti/HWRCstrategy/consultationHome >:(
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Mr Sainsbury's House of Toothy Comestibles used to sell you solid plastic crates-with-handles, which could be fitted neatly into special trolleys, but no-one except Lt. Col. Larrington (retd.) seems to use them any more (and he only does when Dr Larrington or me is available to drive him to the horriblemarket).
I've got one of them! it's full of old carrier bags....
occasionally gets used to transport food to my AUK events
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Mr Sainsbury's House of Toothy Comestibles used to sell you solid plastic crates-with-handles, which could be fitted neatly into special trolleys, but no-one except Lt. Col. Larrington (retd.) seems to use them any more (and he only does when Dr Larrington or me is available to drive him to the horriblemarket).
I've got one of them! it's full of old carrier bags....
occasionally gets used to transport food to my AUK events
I wish they'd start selling something like that online now!
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Our reusable bags come from Carrefour, Le Clerc, Super U, etc. We stock up on our French (and occasional Dutch) expeditions.
Mrs Torslanda (of the horned helmet and heavy metal breastplate) usually contrives to 'forget' to take any shopping bags with us and buys on average 8 to 10 in the course of a fortnight. Plain vanilla supermarket bags are €0.80 - €1.50 and 'town branded'* around €2 - €2.50
More than reasonable value given they do ours and her dad's shopping and last the full year before being switched to recycling duties.
*Usually seaside or historic towns. We have currently Rocomadour, St Jean de Monts, Houlgate and others...
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I like to be subversive with my reusable bags- I take the Lidl ones to Waitrose and the Waitrose ones to Lidl...
Reinforcing the role of those two as the cannonical YACF supermarkets.
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Several years ago, I read of a Polish bloke who toured to the northernmost point of Norway. Because he was a) unemployed b) from one of Europe's cheaper, lower-income countries c) in one of the most expensive countries, he was pretty skint. So he financed himself by collecting soft drink cans which you can then feed into machines for 1 kronor per tin. Apparently he was able to get by quite well like this. So clearly if you're as rich as a Norwegian, deposits on cans don't stop you chucking them out the car window.
When I was a scout leader in Norway our troop used to pick up after events. Usually about 20-30 quids worth of deposits could be gained from the bottles and crates.
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Beach rubbish collection surveys in Scotland have shown a massive reduction in carrier bag waste. Despite the naysayers, it has had a significant effect on plastic waste and is a good thing. Obviously there is more to do, but it is a good step in the right direction.
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I'm not saying it's a bad thing – long overdue – just expressing some sadness that it's takes a 5p fee to change people's behaviour and stop them doing something that ought to be self-evidently bad. It wouldn't cross my mind to litter. I hate bloody wading through the stuff and it does depress how selfish and thoughtless so many people are. Bring back the bloody deposits on bottles and cans too.
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I doubt it'll change the behaviour that leads to the litter I see. That's mostly jettisoned from vehicles into hedgerows. No bags involved.
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I doubt it'll change the behaviour that leads to the litter I see. That's mostly jettisoned from vehicles into hedgerows. No bags involved.
I suspect stuff thrown out of cars is less likely to be bagged now.
Some motoring litter louts did gather all their trash in a bag that they then jettisoned.
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I regret giving the Ocado driver a massive stash of bags for recycling the other week now. If I had waited until next week I could have got 5p each for them! They will even pay you for other stores carrier bags now.
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We have a number of cotton shopping bags which we have collected and used over more than 10 years. :smug: However, somehow we still manage to accumulate plastic bags which is quite surprising really. ???
I wonder if a similar policy could be introduced to reduce the number of bloody cars in circulation! :demon:
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I can't believe the rubbish I'm hearing in the media. Journos and editors seem desperate to invent looming chaos in England today. Apparently, even though the rest of the UK have managed to get it completely, the poor English are going to be totally confused.
The Toady programming on R4 cites the fact that if you buy fresh meat or fish, it will be bagged as usual and there will be no charge, but should you then add a can of beans (they suggest) you must pay.
What? Who the hell would push a can of beans into a bag of fresh mince or haddock?
The new regulations in England will be confusing - if you are a complete idiot.
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Didn't the EU ban vacuum cleaners or somesuch a while ago? I think the universe actually ended then. This is just last stray firings of our neurons as the cosmic void sucks the remaining meat off our bones.
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I can't believe the rubbish I'm hearing in the media. Journos and editors seem desperate to invent looming chaos in England today. Apparently, even though the rest of the UK have managed to get it completely, the poor English are going to be totally confused.
The Toady programming on R4 cites the fact that if you buy fresh meat or fish, it will be bagged as usual and there will be no charge, but should you then add a can of beans (they suggest) you must pay.
What? Who the hell would push a can of beans into a bag of fresh mince or haddock?
The new regulations in England will be confusing - if you are a complete idiot.
It's the bag immediately round the fresh meat or fish (or live goldfish) that's free, surely? If you then choose to get a carrier bag to put that plastic-wrapped meat in, that's a carrier bag and has to be paid for (if your butcher employs 250 people nationwide... )
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Interesting figures in the graph in this article:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/05/plastic-bag-charges-in-england-will-there-be-chaos-at-the-shops
Why do the Scots use so many bags? ???
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Eer....... shopping bags, remember those. However did people cope?
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Little and often perhaps as oppose to loading the planet slayer at $bigshop once a week.
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around 96 to 98 I worked for Kwiksave (remember them) and we charged for carrier bags,
1p for basic cheap plastic bags,
5p for strong bags
We did have stacks of boxes you could take for free though. Nobody died and most people brought reusable bags, trolleys, or just cardboard boxes.
Only folk that never usually shopped there complained and quite loudly and rudely often, when sommerfields bought us, they made the bags free and we went through thousands of them all of a sudden.
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I'm not saying it's a bad thing – long overdue – just expressing some sadness that it's takes a 5p fee to change people's behaviour and stop them doing something that ought to be self-evidently bad. ...
I wonder if the same could be applied to the excessive use of carbon based fuels by sticking a punitive charge on it?
Just thinking out loud...
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It has been said by people who supposedly know that When The Oil Finally, Completely Runs Out, what we shall miss most is not fuel but plastics.
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Do the new regs just apply to food and general shopping or do they apply to things like clothes and books as well?
Quite a few places seem to use the carrier bags as a crude anti shoplifting measure to the extent that if you buy something too large for the available carrier bags they sellotape a bag to the side of the box.
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It's going to be a return to the days of the little red riding hood type basket.
I expect my other half will dig her shopping trolley out of the basement.
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Do the new regs just apply to food and general shopping or do they apply to things like clothes and books as well?
Quite a few places seem to use the carrier bags as a crude anti shoplifting measure to the extent that if you buy something too large for the available carrier bags they sellotape a bag to the side of the box.
Clothes, books, washing machines...
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Interesting figures in the graph in this article:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/05/plastic-bag-charges-in-england-will-there-be-chaos-at-the-shops
Why do the Scots use so many bags? ???
That graph is somewhat misleading, as the charge in Scotland was only introduced in October 2014. I'm sure it has dropped a lot more during the last year. Apparently over 80% reduction.
Note the Scottish charge is more comprehensive, it applies to all shops, no exemptions for small ones. And it applies to single-use bags of any material, the English charge is specifically for plastic bags.
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And in England the charge only applies for businesses with 250 or more employees so your corner shop and local deli are still able to hand out placcy bags like confetti.
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And in England the charge only applies for businesses with 250 or more employees so your corner shop and local deli are still able to hand out placcy bags like confetti.
Customers tend to vote with their feet - perhaps this is all a cunning plan to give small businesses a leg-up?!?
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French supermarkets don't tend to sprinkle flimsy plastic bags around at all. You have to purchase a substantial job with good load-carrying capacity. They are useful for all sorts of things.
You soon remember to take a bag in once you've forgotten a couple of times. It's a very authoritarian place is France.
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Most of the bags I see populating the roadsides are the flimsy ones from convenience stores and fast food emporiums. Seriously, what was the point of making it all stupid, how onerous is a 5p per bag charge wherever, whatever, and whenever?
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day 1 & I noticed in the local Tesco that the self service checkouts are now bagless; which presumably means they are having to employ staff to hang around them with pocket fulls of £9.95s?
They were handing out free bags for life on Friday. I wonder where all the flimsy previously free ones have gone ??? China?
:-\
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No, they're all hanging from the branches of the trees around ASDA at the Jewel.
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day 1 & I noticed in the local Tesco that the self service checkouts are now bagless; which presumably means they are having to employ staff to hang around them with pocket fulls of £9.95s?
They were handing out free bags for life on Friday. I wonder where all the flimsy previously free ones have gone ??? China?
:-\
Nope, they just give the 'self-service helper' a box of bags, and when you ask for them, the bags are scanned (or they press the 'add bag' button), which adds the 5p to the total of your shop. The previously free ones are the ones you will pay 5p for; they haven't gone anywhere. The bags for life will go back to whatever they were sold at before.
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Has the world ended yet?
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It has been said by people who supposedly know that When The Oil Finally, Completely Runs Out, what we shall miss most is not fuel but plastics.
And the food production boost from oil.
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Has the world ended yet?
(Peers out of the window)
Yes, but it's been replaced with the backup version.
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Hang on I'll just reboot...
...meh, looks they same.
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Are you sure? I've tried half a dozen sites1 purporting to have live web-cam feeds of dolphins and even the ones which work aten't got any dolphins in them.
1: True. For a change.
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I can't believe the rubbish I'm hearing in the media. Journos and editors seem desperate to invent looming chaos in England today. Apparently, even though the rest of the UK have managed to get it completely, the poor English are going to be totally confused.
The Toady programming on R4 cites the fact that if you buy fresh meat or fish, it will be bagged as usual and there will be no charge, but should you then add a can of beans (they suggest) you must pay.
What? Who the hell would push a can of beans into a bag of fresh mince or haddock?
Lots of silly* people when the mince or haddock is wrapped in plastic. Raw meat and fish is supposed to be DOUBLE bagged and so you're allowed a free carrier bag if your raw meat and fish is already in a single "bag".
* Because salmonella etc can been found on the outside of raw food wrapping.
It's the bag immediately round the fresh meat or fish (or live goldfish) that's free, surely? If you then choose to get a carrier bag to put that plastic-wrapped meat in, that's a carrier bag and has to be paid for (if your butcher employs 250 people nationwide... )
No. There's no charge for a bag to solely contain even PACKAGED raw meat and fish, because it should be double-wrapped. The charge does apply if you stuff a tin of beans in with it.
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What if your plastic bag contains a loophole wrapped around a get-out clause? :D
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What if your plastic bag contains a loophole wrapped around a get-out clause? :D
You've got a Lawyer in your bag?
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day 1 & I noticed in the local Tesco that the self service checkouts are now bagless; which presumably means they are having to employ staff to hang around them with pocket fulls of £9.95s?
They were handing out free bags for life on Friday. I wonder where all the flimsy previously free ones have gone ??? China?
:-\
Nope, they just give the 'self-service helper' a box of bags, and when you ask for them, the bags are scanned (or they press the 'add bag' button), which adds the 5p to the total of your shop. The previously free ones are the ones you will pay 5p for; they haven't gone anywhere. The bags for life will go back to whatever they were sold at before.
Yes I stuffed up last night in Morrisons, when asked how many bags I was using I instinctively pressed 1 thinking I was going to get a Clubcard point for my re-useable bag (wrong shop :-[) & had to summon the lady to cancel it,
she said they were getting new machines next week which would automatically count the bags ???; the current ones are less than a year old! who's going to end up paying for that? :-\
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day 1 & I noticed in the local Tesco that the self service checkouts are now bagless; which presumably means they are having to employ staff to hang around them with pocket fulls of £9.95s?
They were handing out free bags for life on Friday. I wonder where all the flimsy previously free ones have gone ??? China?
:-\
Nope, they just give the 'self-service helper' a box of bags, and when you ask for them, the bags are scanned (or they press the 'add bag' button), which adds the 5p to the total of your shop. The previously free ones are the ones you will pay 5p for; they haven't gone anywhere. The bags for life will go back to whatever they were sold at before.
Yes I stuffed up last night in Morrisons, when asked how many bags I was using I instinctively pressed 1 thinking I was going to get a Clubcard point for my re-useable bag (wrong shop :-[) & had to summon the lady to cancel it,
she said they were getting new machines next week which would automatically count the bags ???; the current ones are less than a year old! who's going to end up paying for that? :-\
I'm still waiting for my 5% discount for using the self service tills as one person can manage up to six tills, they presumably don't have to pay as much in wages.
I didn't notice any supermarket shopping bags hanging in trees on my cycle in this morning so it must be working
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It has been said by people who supposedly know that When The Oil Finally, Completely Runs Out, what we shall miss most is not fuel but plastics.
And the food production boost from oil.
Naah, we'd just use bio-fuels instead.. Simples.
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It has been said by people who supposedly know that When The Oil Finally, Completely Runs Out, what we shall miss most is not fuel but plastics.
And the food production boost from oil.
Naah, we'd just use bio-fuels instead.. Simples.
You can grow more food or more bio-fuel crops, but...
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she said they were getting new machines next week which would automatically count the bags ???; the current ones are less than a year old! who's going to end up paying for that? :-\
The brand new Morrisons ones still ask how many bags you've used. The Gosport one had new machines this week, and they're a pain in the arse. No longer can I casually lob a handful of loose change into the cash receiving thingy, and let it conveyor belt it all away into its innards, instead I have to feed coins into a slot one at a time. The old ones had an odd attitude to using your own bag, if I told it I was using my own bag, it instructed me to place it on the scales. so far, so good, but then it invariably told me it was the "wrong weight". Well how the flying fuck would you know how heavy my bag is supposed to be? You don't know if its a poly bag, a Gladstone bag that already has a load of other stuff in it, or what, do you? So don;t tell me its the wrong weight, you muppet machine...
I generally don't use a bag at all, as I'm never buying much there, and I only have to cart it about 100m to the Town Hall. As the office milk can be a bit chilly, I generally hang that from a finger for the one minute journey.
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It has been said by people who supposedly know that When The Oil Finally, Completely Runs Out, what we shall miss most is not fuel but plastics.
And the food production boost from oil.
Naah, we'd just use bio-fuels instead.. Simples.
You can grow more food or more bio-fuel crops, but...
(https://elfael.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/biofuels-cartoon.gif)
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I didn't notice any supermarket shopping bags hanging in trees on my cycle in this morning so it must be working
That's the whole bloody point:
they dont grow on trees you know !!!
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The bag charge has now seen the first customer banned from his local supermarket
https://www.facebook.com/midlandstoday/videos/10153639243364761/ (video link)
summary:
didn't want to pay 5p for a bag, so put his shopping back in the basket to carry to the car, but got stopped at the door - "No baskets outside, sir", and things escalated.
I've been using my own bags for about the last 5 years, since the Welsh(?) first started charging.
(Sea to Summit ultra-sil bags (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sea-Summit-Ultra-Sil-Shopping-Bag/dp/B00B1945RI), on cheap offer from Blacks)
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Apparently one of our local Tescos has run out of baskets as people were walking off with them, refusing to pay for the bags. Not like you can have a £1 deposit on a basket like you can on a trolley.
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Apparently one of our local Tescos has run out of baskets as people were walking off with them, refusing to pay for the bags. Not like you can have a £1 deposit on a basket like you can on a trolley.
As long as they re-use them and don't just dump them in the nearest canal.
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https://twitter.com/JoshRBurrows/status/652115641617526785
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Now's a good time to pick up one (or several) of those really strong bags with the proper fabric handles; about 40-50p in most of the main chains
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I went to Tesco in the shopping centre in the middle of town today (I guess it's a Tesco Metro or Express, something like that) and was asked if I wanted a bag. Same question in Cycle Surgery. Whereas in the medium-sized Painsbusy's* up the hill, they don't ask or offer and there are none visible, though they must be there if you ask. And in the hippy shop down the hill there's a sign saying they have to charge 5p by law but they have reused ones available for free, though I'm sure they're under the 250-person threshold.
*This started as autocorrect but is too good not to use.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/anandamide/status/650951467914915840?lang=en-gb
"Lobotomised shitlarks" is the best insult ever to be flung at the Daily Mail. Trufax.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/anandamide/status/650951467914915840?lang=en-gb
"Lobotomised shitlarks" is the best insult ever to be flung at the Daily Mail. Trufax.
I suppose when you spend your entire time telling people that taxes and the government are evil, the only way to sell responsible bag reuse to Fail readers is to suggest that they are doing it to spite the government/dodge the tax.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/anandamide/status/650951467914915840?lang=en-gb
"Lobotomised shitlarks" is the best insult ever to be flung at the Daily Mail. Trufax.
I suppose when you spend your entire time telling people that taxes and the government are evil, the only way to sell responsible bag reuse to Fail readers is to suggest that they are doing it to spite the government/dodge the tax.
... or tell 'em that disposables give you cancer.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/anandamide/status/650951467914915840?lang=en-gb
"Lobotomised shitlarks" is the best insult ever to be flung at the Daily Mail. Trufax.
I suppose when you spend your entire time telling people that taxes and the government are evil, the only way to sell responsible bag reuse to Fail readers is to suggest that they are doing it to spite the government/dodge the tax.
... or tell 'em that disposables give you cancer.
The more 'bags for life' you have the longer you will live. Well I hope so; I have a few.
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It's an insight into people's way of thinking though. Not "I'll use my own bag" but "The f*&^%$! government are screwing me for 5p every time I use a carrier bag!"
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I notice that the till display at our local Tesco Express blames the government every time you buy a 5p bag.
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My local Sainsburys now put the plastic box containing meat that a few weeks ago you would have just chucked into the bottom of the bag along with every thing else into its own small carrier bag which is then knotted to stop you putting anything else in it ???
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I've noticed that Sainsbury's have made their standard carrier bags thicker – somewhere between what they used to be and the 'bag for life' – and are calling them 'reusable'. So you have the choice of 5p reusable or 10p 'for life'. Or your own backpack and, when that's full, thick carrier bag with handles from a Prague branch of a German supermarket, which cost a forgotten but small number of korunas.
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I've noticed that Sainsbury's have made their standard carrier bags thicker – somewhere between what they used to be and the 'bag for life' – and are calling them 'reusable'.
I did a trailer shop a couple of days after the new rules came in. That's usually how I acquire plastic bags to replenish those that fall apart or get used as bin liners, so I paid for a couple of those. About 5 seconds after I commented that they seemed more durable, the bottom fell out of the one I was packing.
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My local Sainsburys now put the plastic box containing meat that a few weeks ago you would have just chucked into the bottom of the bag along with every thing else into its own small carrier bag which is then knotted to stop you putting anything else in it ???
Legal requirement, innit ... (Well, ish.)
If you buy, inter alia, uncooked meat or fish, the retailer may, for elfin safety reasons, supply a single-use bag which is exempt from the 5p levy - but if you put anything other than an item on the specified list (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/carrier-bag-charges-retailers-responsibilities#bags-you-dont-have-to-charge-for) into that bag, it's no longer exempt.
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My local Sainsburys now put the plastic box containing meat that a few weeks ago you would have just chucked into the bottom of the bag along with every thing else into its own small carrier bag which is then knotted to stop you putting anything else in it ???
Legal requirement, innit ... (Well, ish.)
If you buy, inter alia, uncooked meat or fish, the retailer may, for elfin safety reasons, supply a single-use bag which is exempt from the 5p levy - but if you put anything other than an item on the specified list (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/carrier-bag-charges-retailers-responsibilities#bags-you-dont-have-to-charge-for) into that bag, it's no longer exempt.
Yebutt In this case the meat is already in a sealed plastic container that before the change Health and safety wasn't bothered about. Now they give me an unnecessary free bag which they then knot to prevent it being reused.
I assume this is on management instructions - I didn't query it as arguing with the supermarket cashier is probably the first sign of madness. (that and Suggs walking down the path obvs)
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Save your free plastic bags, wash them out and flog them in the horriblemarket car park for 4p. That'll show those unelected bureaucrats who's boss, oh yes!
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My local Sainsburys now put the plastic box containing meat that a few weeks ago you would have just chucked into the bottom of the bag along with every thing else into its own small carrier bag which is then knotted to stop you putting anything else in it ???
Legal requirement, innit ... (Well, ish.)
If you buy, inter alia, uncooked meat or fish, the retailer may, for elfin safety reasons, supply a single-use bag which is exempt from the 5p levy - but if you put anything other than an item on the specified list (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/carrier-bag-charges-retailers-responsibilities#bags-you-dont-have-to-charge-for) into that bag, it's no longer exempt.
Yebutt In this case the meat is already in a sealed plastic container that before the change Health and safety wasn't bothered about. Now they give me an unnecessary free bag which they then knot to prevent it being reused.
I assume this is on management instructions - I didn't query it as arguing with the supermarket cashier is probably the first sign of madness. (that and Suggs walking down the path obvs)
Almost certainly.
If they give you a bag which is exempt because of its contents, and then you put something else into it, it's no longer exempt, and they'd have to charge. *Far* easier to tie it off than to argue the toss about 5p, or to pay a five grand fine for not charging you.
(Yeah, OK, getting hit for the full £5000 would be unlikely - but that's what the legislation says is the maximum penalty. As for bagging meat and fish, IME cashiers generally used to offer wee bags, primarily in case of leakage, but though they'd sometimes assume you wanted them, they'd never actually force them on you.)
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Yebutt In this case the meat is already in a sealed plastic container that before the change Health and safety wasn't bothered about. Now they give me an unnecessary free bag which they then knot to prevent it being reused.
The extra bag is necessary if you want protection from harmful bacteria which are found even on the OUTSIDE of raw meat packaging. The inner plastic wrappings often leak or get punctured. I bet they're handled by dirty people as well.
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What about the time they spend sitting with the exact same shopping in your basket/trolley before reaching the checkout, or the hands of yourself and the cashier which have handled the items and then handle the rest of the shopping? Sounds rather daft to me.
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If its that harmful, it should have better packaging in the shop. Where it may be handled by dozens of staff or customers, who may then handle other foods.
The Scottish law has a limit on the size of bags allowed for meat/fish without charging. So they couldn't use a regular carrier bag.
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The stuff I'm talking about is in a sealed plastic tray - the kind you have to cut open with a knife. If the seal is broken I wouldn't buy it and the shop won't sell it. After bring picked up by my non sterile hands put into a non sterile trolly put on a non sterile conveyer belt a non sterile cashier putting it into a non sterile carrier bag is a bit pointless.
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I've noticed that Sainsbury's have made their standard carrier bags thicker – somewhere between what they used to be and the 'bag for life' – and are calling them 'reusable'.
I did a trailer shop a couple of days after the new rules came in. That's usually how I acquire plastic bags to replenish those that fall apart or get used as bin liners, so I paid for a couple of those. About 5 seconds after I commented that they seemed more durable, the bottom fell out of the one I was packing.
Lollops! I reckon you'd be better off paying for proper bin liners now, but your bins might vary.
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It should be better packed in the first place, but it's not. It's still worth reducing the total amount of further bacteria spread despite some of it already being everywhere, and the extra bag does that. It's not an all or nothing matter.
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The stuff I'm talking about is in a sealed plastic tray
Yes even that has been proven to have harmful amounts of harmful bacteria on the outside. Supermarkets do sell raw meat in leaking supposedly-sealed packaging all the time, and it's contaminated on the outside even when there's no obvious leak - how exactly, I don't know*, but it is. I remember a BBC programme finding this, for example.
A small amount of this bacteria won't necessarily make you ill whereas a large amount will. It's all about reducing contamination rather than even trying to eliminate it altogether.
* Edited to add: contamination from a neighbouring pack that is leaking is one explanation. It's so common for "sealed" packs to leak that there's often some meat juice on the shelf.
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It's not 'all or nothing', but if you are going to rely on it as a safety system then it might as well be. Ok the industry I work in may be a little more sensitive to contamination spread than most, but considering the number of interactions any trolley, shelf, checkout conveyer, item of produce, etc. will have with other potentially contaminated items, I fail to see what the point is of a non-sterile plastic bag.
In fact I'd prefer the cashier, who is going to be handling the rest of my shopping and probably numerous other peoples', not to be doing any more handling of a potentially contaminated item than necessary. Accessing a non-sterile plastic bag, then opening it, placing item inside and fastening up is going to involve far more handing of the item than a simple scan.
You have already lost containment long before the checkout. Putting a partial, non-sterile, potentially contaminated barrier onto a small portion of the already potentially pre-contaminated inventory would seem to have little to no actual safety benefit.
If you are actually taking contamination control seriously, then this should be undertaken before the item is placed on the shelf, which is a point where effective controls can be applied, or (as I suspect is probably the underlying idea that caused this method) at the point the butcher packages the meat behind their counter and before it reaches the customer's hand.
The bag should also be sealed, unlike many of the little bags I've been offered in shops before.
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The stuff I'm talking about is in a sealed plastic tray - the kind you have to cut open with a knife. If the seal is broken I wouldn't buy it and the shop won't sell it. After bring picked up by my non sterile hands put into a non sterile trolly put on a non sterile conveyer belt a non sterile cashier putting it into a non sterile carrier bag is a bit pointless.
My bold - you'd hope not but when I noticed a raw chicken dish that had the cellophane peeling back slightly from the metal tray and gave it to a staff member at our local Tesco whilst I went and fetched a sealed one I'm sure I heard her asking one of the cashiers for a bit of tape so she could stick the top down prior to it going back in the fridge :o :facepalm:
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It's not 'all or nothing', but if you are going to rely on it as a safety system then it might as well be. Ok the industry I work in may be a little more sensitive to contamination spread than most, but considering the number of interactions any trolley, shelf, checkout conveyer, item of produce, etc. will have with other potentially contaminated items, I fail to see what the point is of a non-sterile plastic bag.
I suspect it's not actually intended to be a safety system to reduce bacterial cross-contamination, more a secondary defence against liquid leakage from packaging that gets damaged between store and home.
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I suspect it's not actually intended to be a safety system to reduce bacterial cross-contamination, more a secondary defence against liquid leakage from packaging that gets damaged between store and home.
Indeed. And a job that plastic bags do admirably well. Indeed, that's the main reason I (re-)use them when shopping with panniers.
(I've had meat packaging leak unnoticed in panniers[1]. Slugs promptly broke into the house and snotted all over them.)
[1] The cheapo Avenir ones I use for shopping in case things leak.
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It's not 'all or nothing', but if you are going to rely on it as a safety system then it might as well be. Ok the industry I work in may be a little more sensitive to contamination spread than most, but considering the number of interactions any trolley, shelf, checkout conveyer, item of produce, etc. will have with other potentially contaminated items, I fail to see what the point is of a non-sterile plastic bag.
We're not relying on it as a safety system, it's just something simple that helps a bit, and there's no good reason not to do it. The bag doesn't have to be sterile to reduce the sheer amount of further contamination. It does at least reduce the amount of leaking meat juice (containing harmful bacteria) that would otherwise rest in your "bag for life" and heavily contaminate other items when bundled together.
Still some contamination will occur (including from the cashier's hands) but there will be a reduction in the number of bacteria spread, and reducing numbers is what it's about, not anything goes versus complete sterility. Supermarkets and our homes will never be sterile environments, and we wouldn't want them to be, but still we can reduce the amount of harmful bacteria in some places by simple means. Otherwise you might as well say it's not worth washing your hands after going to the toilet because you're still going to end up eating some harmful bacteria. The point is about the *amount* of contamination, not whether there's been any at all.
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The stuff I'm talking about is in a sealed plastic tray - the kind you have to cut open with a knife. If the seal is broken I wouldn't buy it and the shop won't sell it. After bring picked up by my non sterile hands put into a non sterile trolly put on a non sterile conveyer belt a non sterile cashier putting it into a non sterile carrier bag is a bit pointless.
My bold - you'd hope not but when I noticed a raw chicken dish that had the cellophane peeling back slightly from the metal tray and gave it to a staff member at our local Tesco whilst I went and fetched a sealed one I'm sure I heard her asking one of the cashiers for a bit of tape so she could stick the top down prior to it going back in the fridge :o :facepalm:
That's quite a strong accusation! A relation is a senior mgr at Tesco and a former compliance manager. I have no doubt at all she would have any member of her staff shot for doing that. What's more if I had a package like that I would expect the staff member to get a properly sealed one not have to go myself. You must have a really useless manager running your branch.
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Is this the first charging-for-bags related crime?
Outside Morrisons on Saturday I saw a ne'er-do-well tampering with a bicycle which I know was not his. He removed the carrier bag which had been wrapped over the saddle to keep th rain off, stuffed it in his pocket and went into the shop. I was going to be a have-a-go hero but then realised what he was up to.
Giving some cyclist a cold, wet arse just to save 5p. How low can some people go?
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Carrying a partly filled shopping bag into a supermarket tonight containing goods from elsewhere, the face of the person at the checkout was a picture of confusion, as they stared repeatedly at the till receipt and my bag, wondering how I could possibly have acquired/ not be liable to pay for, its existing contents.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12024538/Dislike-the-5p-bag-charge-This-man-has-re-used-his-Tesco-carrier-bag-for-34-years.html
Interesting to see how the shape and size of the bags have changed since the 80s.
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All that "it will never work" and Tesco are reporting that they are now using 80% fewer plastic bags than they did before the charge. Why did people think it wouldn't work when it already had in Wales and Scotland?
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And guess what, Tesco et al are now making a nice profit on the bags they do sell. Win win.
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All that "it will never work" and Tesco are reporting that they are now using 80% fewer plastic bags than they did before the charge. Why did people think it wouldn't work when it already had in Wales and Scotland?
Same reason people think cycle infrastructure won't work when it already does in Denmark and the Netherlands.
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And guess what, Tesco et al are now making a nice profit on the bags they do sell. Win win.
Doesn't the money go to charitable causes? It certainly does in Wales.
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It's optional but I believe Tesco are intending to donate the money to charity.
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http://www.tesco.com/carrier-bags/
The implication is that DEFRA agree where the money goes.
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I was in Waterstones the other day and was asked if I wanted a bag for the book I was buying. Yes, I said, because it was a gift and that would prevent it getting creased when I put it in my backpack with other stuff. I have to charge you 5p, said the cashier. Of course, I knew it's not a supermarket bag charge, but somehow I hadn't thought of it. So I decided against the bag because it was unneccessary. So it works! said the assistant.
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I'm sure I saw a tweet not that long ago from a charity that Tesco had partnered with asking for nominations for where the 5p bonus should be spent. (I'll trawl through Twatter but don't hold yer breath)
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Found it : a charity called Groundwork - see http://tesco.com/carrier-bags/
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A rare bit of useful campaigning from the Daily Wail;
This is one of those schemes that works really well in Sweden and Germany. The big drawback is that you have to take the bottle back to the chain where you bought it for own brand bottles / cans, not sure how it will work for Coca cola / Stella Artois / Blossom Hill etc. A new generation of kids like me who used to spend their summer holidays looking for discarded Corona bottles to supplement provide their pocket money ? (probably not :-\)
or will it be one of things that we Brits just CNBA to do and will just forget the extra deposit?
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I got the impression they were talking of "reverse vending" machines; you put the bottles in the slot and it gives a fixed deposit back. So the original retailer and the brand doesn't matter.
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I got the impression they were talking of "reverse vending" machines; you put the bottles in the slot and it gives a fixed deposit back. So the original retailer and the brand doesn't matter.
That's what they have in New York, it was housed in the basement of a supermarket; you put your bottles in and it printed out a voucher that you could use upstairs. After a couple of visits I noticed that only other users were homeless people so after a while I just used to give my empties to one of them. They always seemed grateful.
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The "reverse vending machines" are about £30k each. It would make sense to have one per shopping area rather than one in Lidl, Aldi Tesco etc all a few yards apart (unless Aldi etc feel they are missing out and want their own one). In Germany (Lidl) they were by the exit, well away from the sales floor where fresh food was on display. This would seem the only workable solution especially when kids and homeless etc are trawling bins to find empties.
Tesco used to have scheme where they had machines which issued Clubcard points for recycled containsers and some people were know to have paid for holidays from all the empties they collected and returned
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Yes, I have my doubts as to the overall effectiveness of these reverse vending machines ever since I read, almost ten years ago, an account of a tour to Nordkapp largely financed by picking up the cans and bottles Norwegian drivers throw out of their windows and feeding them into these machines. Clearly the deposit was not enough to stop the locals littering.
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So prescient (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-politics-friends-of-the-earth-bottles-protest-schweppes-ltd-london-106443788.html).
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So prescient (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-politics-friends-of-the-earth-bottles-protest-schweppes-ltd-london-106443788.html).
indeed; there was a similar protest yesterday when 50 shoppers in Tesco dumped all their extra plastic packaging at the tills after having paid for their shopping,
the most depressing place I've ever snorkelled was near Marmaris in Turkey; the entire coastline even well away from the beach was full of glass bottles