Netherlands Nirvana

[ijsbrand]

Hello Mr ijsbrand, is there a planner for Belgium please? I see from the link you so very kindly provided, Belgium is hundreds of years behind the Nederlands, or has been recently been taken over by the Sahara!

The only planner I have used for cycling outside the Netherlands has been the Naviki one. Which did its job. But, there ought to be more. And perhaps even better ones.

[quixoticgeek]

Hello Mr ijsbrand, is there a planner for Belgium please? I see from the link you so very kindly provided, Belgium is hundreds of years behind the Nederlands, or has been recently been taken over by the Sahara!

The cycle streets planner works really well on continental Europe. You can't do the post code or address look up, but if you pan and zoom around and tap to place way points, it will give you a route no problem. Have used it for routes all over Europe (note it does get very confused by Iceland...).

J

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Hello Mr Scum,
Where do I find the Nederlands Feitspad map please? We bought a local map from De Kempervennen, but its wasn't that large, stopping short of around 15km sq.

Dave_C the map I have is the Falk cycling map, Sheet 18 named Kempenland (Met De Meierij)   https://shop.route.nl/fietskaart-18-kempenland.html
They are available from Stanfords also http://www.stanfords.co.uk/Netherland-Flanders-Falk-50K-Cycling-Maps_SI00001600

Happy to post you a copy if Stanfords or Amazon dont have it.

Oooh - there is an indoor snow centre there. In this heat that is SOOOOO tempting.

[quixoticgeek]

Bulletin the Fourth.        The Shame.

On the strange habits of the Dutch - they wait patiently for pedestian and cycle crossing lights, even on patently empty roads. A lot longer than the British will wait.  I wonder if this is a result of school lessons?

Yeah, I don't get this, they wait patiently next to a completely empty road, what's worse, is there is an assumption someone else has pressed the button, which invariably means noone has. Was sat at the back of a group of bikes at a crossing for several minutes before I just said "can someone actually press the button". We crossed 10 seconds later...

Yesterday in the heat I went out on my Hewitt tourer for the first time to explore the Kempen area, where Centerparcs is. I had a bust tour the previous day of the area, including a holiday park a la Centerparcs but favoured by Germans, Also the little town of Eersel.
So I headed to Eeersel following the long distance fietspad LF51.  This is a route from Eindhoven to Antwerp.
The route was superbly well signposted, with LF51a going one way and LF51b going the other, so you know which signs to follow.
I agree with some of the comments above - even though this is a long distance route, it took a perverse delight in following every little byway through the contryside. At one point it neatly went round three sides of a farmers field on a sandy track jus tlike Mrs Pingus picture above.
Tough going in the heat, so when I finally arrived in Eeersel a well deserved pint barely touched the sides...

Yeah, the LF routes are a bit like sustrans routes. Sure they are pretty, but you wouldn't want to rely on one for your route to work. Pretty much every road has a cycle lane or fietspad next to it anyway.

The node network is a work of genius. This you may want to use if you cycle between towns for your commute. They also make it really easy if you want to plot a route for an evening ride. Just remember the numbers, (or write them on your arm).

On the way back I looked at the map. There are superb Fietspad maps available for all the country - I haven't quite got the hang of the 'numbered junction' system yet.  I saw that there is a direct route on a Provincialweg - what would be an A-road in Britain. Being a bit knackered, I decided to take this direct route.  Superb cycle paths on either side for the whole distance. I know its not that pleasant cycling beside a road, but surely if there is a long distance route you would choose that rather than twice this distance through little lanes. If you were in the evening heading for your accomodation or a campsite I can imagine the LF51 route would drive you to screaming frustration.

Good summation of the LF routes...

So picture the lardy Brit, slathered in suncream, sweating along on his touring bike with 24 speed gears...   I am a lardy git and unfit to boot.
10 kilometres from home who should come along but my nemesis - the Dutch Granny. Out for a pootle in the 30 degree heat on her sit up and beg bike...
She breezes past me as I asthmatically honk along.... So what did I do? Mash the pedals and uphold the honour of British cycling? Noooo.....   I got on her wheel and drafted her home...

There. I drafted a Dutch Granny.

Had a similar experience recently, only it wasn't a Dutch granny, but a young lady in a tight pencil skirt, who, defying the laws of physics, was not just able to ride, but was also faster than I could keep up. I tried to draft her, but couldn't keep up...

J

[fd3]

On the strange habits of the Dutch - they wait patiently for pedestian and cycle crossing lights, even on patently empty roads. A lot longer than the British will wait.  I wonder if this is a result of school lessons?

Do the Dutch regard themselves as being law abiding? Perhaps to them it's so obvious that this is what you do, they don't even consider it a matter of law abiding-ness or not? I ask because one of the habits of Poles that struck me is how they always wait for the green man before crossing the road, even when the road is completely empty. Of course you can be fined for not doing so, but that's the case in many countries. But they like to proclaim themselves a nation of anarchists.

You see the same in Germany, if you cross a road against the red man you get called a child murderer!

[Cudzoziemiec]

Which is in line with German national image (or at least with how Germany is [stereo]typically seen from abroad) of being orderly and law-abiding.

[Pingu]

...I haven't quite got the hang of the 'numbered junction' system yet...

IMG_6817_01 by The Pingus, on Flickr

[Pingu]

Hello Mr ijsbrand, is there a planner for Belgium please? I see from the link you so very kindly provided, Belgium is hundreds of years behind the Nederlands, or has been recently been taken over by the Sahara!

I think Pingu used this http://www.fietsroute.org/cycle-node-planner

That's the fella.

[Ivo]

The 'knooppunten' are actually an invention from Belgian Limbug. An ex miner developed them, using the coalmine signposts as a template.

[ijsbrand]

Short movie about the cycle superhighway between Arnhem and Nijmegen (English spoken).

[yoav]

Something odd happens 2.25 into the film when a car appears to be heading right into the path of cyclists on a roundabout but the film cuts away before we see what happens. My experience in the Netherlands is that cars give way to cyclists at roundabouts.

[Ivo]

Something odd happens 2.25 into the film when a car appears to be heading right into the path of cyclists on a roundabout but the film cuts away before we see what happens. My experience in the Netherlands is that cars give way to cyclists at roundabouts.

Nope, that's not the general rule.
Roundabouts in built up area's usually have the right of way for cyclists on the roundabout, on roundabouts on the countryside cyclist's don't have the right of way. That's the general rule but in many cities on the larger roundabouts the countryside rule is used.

[Cudzoziemiec]

How do you tell the difference? Presumably there's a sign or marking of some sort to indicate which type each roundabout is. The one in the film has give way markings between the main carriageway of the roundabout and the cycle lane where it crosses the exit arm, so I guess that's pretty clear!

[Ivo]

How do you tell the difference? Presumably there's a sign or marking of some sort to indicate which type each roundabout is. The one in the film has give way markings between the main carriageway of the roundabout and the cycle lane where it crosses the exit arm, so I guess that's pretty clear!

Indeed, give way markings on the road.
That still doesn't help, the older generation learned to drive when even on a roundabout one had to yield to the sidestreets. They still do this.

[quixoticgeek]

How do you tell the difference? Presumably there's a sign or marking of some sort to indicate which type each roundabout is. The one in the film has give way markings between the main carriageway of the roundabout and the cycle lane where it crosses the exit arm, so I guess that's pretty clear!

My understanding is as follows.

When the roundabout was first introduced to the Netherlands they copied it from the UK, whole sale, without correcting it for changing which side of the road is driven on. Resulting in Give way to the right... when you're on the roundabout. So they didn't work, and not many got built. Recently they introduced a corrected version of roundabouts, where you give way to those already on the roundabout. Which is which is differentiated by white vs blue roundabout sign. Which is which? can't remember...

There will still likely be a bi directional bike path round hte outside, that is likely to have right of way, which does limit the utility of roundabouts here.

The above may be complete utter bull, it's how it was explained to me by a Dutch friend, but they could have been testing my gullibility. Either way, most roundabouts I seem to find in .nl are very recent additions. Four way traffic lights are far far more common.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

French roundabouts used to (perhaps some still do) have circulating traffic give way to joining traffic; an effect of priorite a droite. More likely NL took it from that? Some version priorite a droite applied in many countries until ~1950 when increasing traffic volumes and speeds made it impractical/dangerous AIUI – I don't know if NL was one of them.

[Ivo]

Until quite recently there was a give way distinction between fast and slow traffic. This was changed about 1-2 decades ago. AFAIK this was introduced during the war because the nazi's were upset by having to give way to so many cyclists coming from the right.

[Pingu]

French roundabouts used to (perhaps some still do) have circulating traffic give way to joining traffic; an effect of priorite a droite...

A lot of French roundabouts have signs when approaching saying you do not have priority.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Bulletin the Fifth.   Sustrans - eat your heart out.  And a special guest appearance.

On Sunday I decided to do part of the 'Rondje Eindhoven' route around the town where I live.
At the start of the route I was faffing around with my gears and dawdling along the middle of the cycle path,
when Dutch Granny shouted something at me and left me in the dust. More later.

Some time into the route I came across a cycle road. A road. Wide as a British road, two lanes,  and a footpath beside it.
Street lighting and everything.  Straight as a die and must have been over a mile long.
   Sorry for lack of image posting skillz.

Later on I came across this beauty, parallel to a motorway.   
Sustrans, just take your toys and go home. In the UK this would be called a Greenway, go behind a manky row of shops and finish in a car park behind the bins.

And now an appearance by our special guest.

Scum:  Goedeavond Dutch Granny

Granny: Hoi Schoom
Granny: Schoom - nice Dutch name

Scum: Nee Granny. I am Scottish

Granny: Aha! I see now why the tartan skirt. I just thought you were a transvestite.
             Which is OK. We are very liberal in the Netherlands.  But that kilt... it must be bad for the saddle sores.
             Do you mind if I have a little look underneath?

Scum: Granny!

Scum: Granny, when I was on the Rondje Eindhoven bike path, you shouted something at me. What was that?

Granny: Well Schoom. Lets just say that was some un-Granny like language. You won't be learning that in your Dutch class

Scum: Goodnight Granny

Granny: Goodnight Schoom

[Pingu]

Bulletin the Fifth.   Sustrans - eat your heart out.  And a special guest appearance.

On Sunday I decided to do part of the 'Rondje Eindhoven' route around the town where I live.
At the start of the route I was faffing around with my gears and dawdling along the middle of the cycle path,
when Dutch Granny shouted something at me and left me in the dust. More later.

Some time into the route I came across a cycle road. A road. Wide as a British road, two lanes,  and a footpath beside it.
Street lighting and everything.  Straight as a die and must have been over a mile long.
   Sorry for lack of image posting skillz.

Later on I came across this beauty, parallel to a motorway.   
Sustrans, just take your toys and go home. In the UK this would be called a Greenway, go behind a manky row of shops and finish in a car park behind the bins.

And now an appearance by our special guest.

Scum:  Goedeavond Dutch Granny

Granny: Hoi Schoom
Granny: Schoom - nice Dutch name

Scum: Nee Granny. I am Scottish

Granny: Aha! I see now why the tartan skirt. I just thought you were a transvestite.
             Which is OK. We are very liberal in the Netherlands.  But that kilt... it must be bad for the saddle sores.
             Do you mind if I have a little look underneath?

Scum: Granny!

Scum: Granny, when I was on the Rondje Eindhoven bike path, you shouted something at me. What was that?

Granny: Well Schoom. Lets just say that was some un-Granny like language. You won't be learning that in your Dutch class

Scum: Goodnight Granny

Granny: Goodnight Schoom

rps20170625_231347_468 on Flickr


rps20170625_231223_879 (1) on Flickr

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Aww thankyou Pingu!
That cycle road was a revelation. A sign at the start says something like "This is a cycle road. Cars are guests". Cars can use it for access. Halfway along there is a width restriction, just some logs at the side of the road. None of the idiot metal cages we have in the UK.

[trekker12]

Looking forward to our blitz across Holland (to catch a train to Munich) next month.

"This is a cycle road. Cars are guests".

Would, if in the UK, be taken with the usual amount of liberty associated with much of the motoring public over here.

[Dave_C]

Well we are installed in Kempervennan south of Valkenwald (spelling??). It has been raining today so we have been in the Swiming pool all day but tomorrow promises to be dry.

I have the cheap paper map from the Centre Parcs reception and plan an early morning ride out, perhaps north towards Eindhoven. There looks to be a stright road up, and I imagin it will have a path alongside.

Dave C

[Ivo]

Well we are installed in Kempervennan south of Valkenwald (spelling??). It has been raining today so we have been in the Swiming pool all day but tomorrow promises to be dry.

I have the cheap paper map from the Centre Parcs reception and plan an early morning ride out, perhaps north towards Eindhoven. There looks to be a stright road up, and I imagin it will have a path alongside.

Dave C

The Valkenswaard-Eindhoven road indeed has a bikepath alongside. But it's a rather boring road. for better cycling just go south and take a break at the Achelse Kluis monastry.

[Dave_C]

The Valkenswaard-Eindhoven road indeed has a bikepath alongside. But it's a rather boring road. for better cycling just go south and take a break at the Achelse Kluis monastry.

Hi,

I have already had 2 forays into Belgium (sans passport - naughty) on the bike. On Sunday I rode to the monastery from The Nederlands, and was interested to see the boards explaining how the monks appeared to interned for the duration of the war(?) It was fun then following the border towards the canal I rode along on Saturday. I'm trying to get out once a day but failing due to parental duties...