Shimano 5700 105 worn drive side bearing, cup and cone

[bobw]

I'm riding LEL shortly and I decided it was a good idea to strip, re-grease and replace any bearings on my rear hub.

When I dismantled it, I found the drive side wasn't in great shape:





The non-drive side cone looks fine to me. The bearings were getting dull, so I'll be replacing those.




This is the second freehub body this hub has had. The first one wore out in pretty much the same way. I've stripped, regreased and replaced the bearings a few times in its life.

Reading other riders experience this seems fairly abnormal. I ride in all conditions and do fairly decent mileage on it, but nothing as extreme as some. I often clean the cassette with a toothbrush and degreaser.

Any idea how can I prevent this happening again, so quickly? How often do others strip these hubs?

[Samuel D]

I service the bearings in my FH-5700 about twice a year, but I should probably do it more often. I replace the balls at the first hint of dullness.

I think you should start by checking that the right-hand seal is still good, replacing if necessary. And why not stop using degreaser on the cassette while it’s on the wheel, instead removing the cassette to deep-clean it? If you do this for a while you could identify whether that’s causing the problem.

What are you using for grease? Some lubricants are much more resistant to water and have better corrosion inhibitors than others. Mobilith SHC 1500 is supposed to be good. Shimano Premium Grease is probably half-decent, though maybe less good at corrosion inhibition. That grease is Shimano part numbers Y04110000 (50 g tub), Y04110200 (100 g tube), or Y04110010 (500 g tub).

I have both of these greases but favour the Mobilith.

Evans Cycles have FH-5700 freehub bodies at a decent price at the moment, if that’s any use to you.

[Samuel D]

A few other part numbers for the FH-5700, because I have them handy (I have the same hub), and in case they’re useful for online shopping or ordering at your LBS:

Y3TA98060 – freehub body (includes Y3CR08000 seal, below)
Y3TA98030 – rear axle assembly with axle, cones, and balls
Y3TA98050 – left cone
Y3TA98040 – right cone
Y00091310 – balls on their own
Y3CR09000 – left seal
Y3CR08000 – right seal

[Torslanda]

I honestly think you may have overdone it with the degreaser. The seal looks to be damaged or distorted and either the degreaser or just the weather has washed out all the grease.

From a repair point of view, it needs a freehub, balls and RH cone. The parts are in stock (you'll have to buy the axle assembly) at SJSC at least and you should be able to get them in time to complete the rebuild before LEL.

As to prevention, one trick is to fill the void under the cassette lockring with thick grease. Messy but worth it. 

Freehub body

Axle service kit

[Brucey]

whilst the LH cone is still in one piece, it shows a more extensive wear mark than it should do. This strongly indicates that the bearings were not set correctly.

 The correct setting is a little free play that just disappears as the QR is tightened. If there is no free play your bearings will be merrily grinding themselves to atoms, once the QR is tight.

The damage to the RH bearing is partly due to (salty winter) water ingress and partly due to the bearing loadings, which are higher on the DS anyway, even if the hub adjustment is correct.  If the (usual type of) grease becomes contaminated with water, wear rates are likely to be x10 higher than normal.

If that were my hub I probably wouldn't bother to replace the freehub body; it doesn't look that bad, and (from the cup, the balls and the cone) the cup  has the least effect on the running of the hub. Also, if the bearings inside the freewheel mechanism are play-free but a bit rough, this has zero effect on the normal running of the hub. [In fact I'd sooner have a freewheel with rough bearings and no play than the usual arrangement of smooth bearings and a little free play.]

From the pictures it is even possible that the RH bearing seal wasn't even working at all, because it appears to be set down into the freewheel body more than normal.

If you want the whole affair to work properly and last a long time, I'd suggest three things

1) New RH cone and ball bearings, please
2) if you have not done so already, learn to adjust the hub bearings correctly. (If correctly adjusted and lubricated, even cheap hubs can look better than your LH cone after 20K miles plus....)
3) Use a semi-fluid grease which contains corrosion inhibitors and solid lubricants, not the usual rubbish (in the context of UK weather) grease that  shimano use.

You can pretty much put as much SFG into the hub as you want; it will get into the freewheel mechanism and (if it is the right grade) it won't interfere with pawl engagement.  The right SFG will (unlike a standard #2 grade grease) keep seal lips wetted and therefore functional. Seals in hubs often fail because the lips are not wetted with lube after a while. 

SFG is also a good choice because most of it will stay inside the hub, even if the seals are not quite perfect. [If the seals are perfect, you can run a shimano freehub in gear oil if you want, but this possibility is rare these days because the RH seal is meant to 'seal' against the lockring screw thread on the seal OD. Oil will always leak through the gap.]

I make my own SFG for this purpose but a suitable off-the-shelf version is the kind of SFG that goes into land rover front swivels.  The only bad things about this lube are

a) it stinks
b) if you get any on your clothes, they are ruined.

cheers

[bobw]

Thanks for the advice.

Y3CR09000 – left seal
Y3CR08000 – right seal

From the pictures it is even possible that the RH bearing seal wasn't even working at all, because it appears to be set down into the freewheel body more than normal.

I'd never realised that seal was removable/replaceable. (I followed this guide: http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/freehub-service#article-section-2), which says:

Do not attempt to pry out right side dust cap from Shimano® freehubs. Damage may result. Clean under dust cap using a brush and rags.

I guess I've pushed it down into the freehub body without realising. It probably also explains why it's a bit warped, as I've fished the bearings out without removing it. Should I have removed it? How do I make sure it's located correctly?

1) New RH cone and ball bearings, please
2) if you have not done so already, learn to adjust the hub bearings correctly. (If correctly adjusted and lubricated, even cheap hubs can look better than your LH cone after 20K miles plus....)
3) Use a semi-fluid grease which contains corrosion inhibitors and solid lubricants, not the usual rubbish (in the context of UK weather) grease that  shimano us.

1) I've ordered both, and in a panic last night ordered the freehub from Evans too.
2) I'm sure I get this now. I think the wear on the non-drive side cone is from my first attempt, a while back, the one which destroyed my original freehub.
3) Any recommendations?

I can't seem to find Mobilith SHC1500 in any kind of small quantity. I've been using Rock N Roll Super Web (https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/rock-n-roll-super-web-multi-purpose-grease/).

I've heard "boat trailer grease" via Sheldon Brown, maybe something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morris-K99-Waterproof-Stern-Tube-Bearing-Grease-500g-Marine-Boats-Trailers-/282035086839?hash=item41aa99e5f7:g:WXcAAOSwWntXM5-~?

And I shall be removing the cassette in future to clean it.

[Samuel D]

Should I have removed it? How do I make sure it's located correctly?

I have not found a way to reliably remove it without bending it. It seems you would need a tool that hooks under the seal but that also has a large surface area distributing pressure over a large portion of the underneath face of the seal, allowing you to pull straight up without bending it. And I haven’t found a way to perfectly straighten a bent seal either. However, the seals are not very expensive (although expensive for what they are). A viable option may be to replace them at each service.

I insert the seal with an appropriately sized socket, which helps to keep it straight. I haven’t noticed much difference in where it is precisely located. Would be interested in Brucey’s further thoughts on that.

[Brucey]

re the freehub body seals; there are several patterns in use on different shimano freehubs. Three common ones are

a) all metal type
b) plastic type (looks the same shape as a) more or less)
c) rubber type

The last of these has a seal lip that bears against the cone's 17mm dia and this type of seal can be used with a wide variety of freehubs including those that never had a decent seal to start with as well as those that have had a failed seal, since most cones have a 17mm diameter section on them.

a) and b) are designed to work with a seal that is carried in a groove in the cone.  They can be differentiated from one another by using a magnet. 

The plastic and rubber seals can be removed fairly easily. If the rubber seal deforms it can be straightened (it has a metal core).  If the type a) seal is deformed when it comes out, it can be straightened. If it is a loose fit, it can be re- flared  slightly.

There is a trick to removing the a) metal seal type; take a length of tubing (or a socket) that fits over the upstand, and bosh the seal into the freehub body, hard enough that the centre section becomes dished. This will then loosen it on the diameter, so that it will slide out easily.  If you are keen you can make a small 'D' shaped piece to help extract these seals; the D shaped piece can go through the hole and then slot in behind the seal, and allow the seal to be nudged out from behind.

The deformed seal can be flattened and re-flared etc using simple tools on the back of a bench vice. The tool I use for re-flaring is a socket of the right diameter, with a slight radius on the end.  If seal types b) and c) are a loose fit then they need to be replaced or bonded in place with adhesive of some kind; these cannot be re-flared.

I would suggest that the seal does not normally need to be disturbed unless the freehub bearings are being adjusted, or the seal is loose already (which does happen sometimes).

For a suitable SFG I suggest the kind of grease that goes into land rover front swivels. This is sold as a land rover spare part.

cheers

[bobw]

For a suitable SFG I suggest the kind of grease that goes into land rover front swivels. This is sold as a land rover spare part.

Like this> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Defender-One-Shot-Swivel-Grease-BOTTLE-STC3435-/332020019857?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

It seems a bit extreme to be using something as noxious sounding as this. I always find the discussion of "which bearing grease" quite overwhelming and I tend to get a bit lost in it all.

[Brucey]

It seems a bit extreme to be using something as noxious sounding as this.

er, so you want your bearings to wear out and corrode instead...?

 

I always find the discussion of "which bearing grease" quite overwhelming and I tend to get a bit lost in it all.

just buy it, whack it in, and not worry about it.

Very many (most) other greases are really meant for higher speeds and temperatures, which makes everything easier, lubrication-wise.

   The land rover stuff is meant for horrible conditions including high loads, low speeds and corrosion-inducing road salt spray.  Just like in bicycle hubs....

Every single ingredient in this grease is there for a reason and is useful in bicycle hubs too. Many other greases seem to me to be suitable for some but not all of the service conditions that are seen in bicycle hubs.

cheers

[rogerzilla]

I've never been that impressed with the sealing on Shimano hubs, especially the freehub side.  The MTB hubs with big rubber covers just seem to trap water and are even worse.  Sturmey-Archer got it right in the 1930s, although they've let it go these days as the large ball race on newer hubs has a rubbish one-piece bearing cage and seal.  The old labyrinth seal and loose ball arrangement was much better.  The axle bearings on SA hubs are still protected against pretty much anything except immersion in water.