Author Topic: 20in but Brompton-ish folding style folder? ie more compact  (Read 2807 times)

20in but Brompton-ish folding style folder? ie more compact
« on: 07 September, 2017, 03:47:13 pm »
Given the roughness/crateredness of modern UK roads and modern railway companies inexplicable acceptance of any 'collection of folded tubes with (2) 20ins wheels' as a folder (rather than the tighter 70 by 90 by 30cm national rail luggage volume that few other than the Brompton can meet):

I was wondering about a 20in Brompton with big apple tyres then found this https://www.crosshead.co.uk/how-it-works

The folded size is  680 x 620 x 360 mm (from https://www.crosshead.co.uk/faqs)
A pity they failed to be inspired by the Bromptons fold keeping gears/chain inside fold for protection....


Is a 20in Brompton worth developingor just a 305 by 2in big apple wheeled Brom variant?

EDITed to add (2) before wheels :)

Kim

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Re: 20in but Brompton-ish folding style folder? ie more compact
« Reply #1 on: 07 September, 2017, 03:50:48 pm »
modern railway companies inexplicable acceptance of any 'collection of folded tubesc with 20ins wheels' as a folder

As long as there aren't more than two 20" wheels in that collection of tubes.  (DAHIKT)

Re: 20in but Brompton-ish folding style folder? ie more compact
« Reply #2 on: 07 September, 2017, 05:48:22 pm »
You can't have the brompton fold with much larger wheels unless you make the entire frame larger in proportion to the wheels! The wheelbase would be seriously long. Perhaps a version with 355 big apples could work... the 305 big apples are a little small and I wonder if the Kinetix mods result in the bottom bracket being too close to the ground.

I'd not seen that crosshead bike before, looks good. Essentially the best 20" design would be something of that sort, or like this:
http://vello.bike/
which is basically a variant of the Mezzo/Birdy fold.

Re: 20in but Brompton-ish folding style folder? ie more compact
« Reply #3 on: 07 September, 2017, 06:17:13 pm »
You can't have the brompton fold with much larger wheels unless you make the entire frame larger in proportion to the wheels!....
I didn't mean simply scale it up, I presumed some different design would be needed but using the same multi-fold principles to fold better than a dahon, lock in in one piece when folded, keep chain inside when folded etc etc

.....the 305 big apples are a little small and I wonder if the Kinetix mods result in the bottom bracket being too close to the ground...

 305 +50 + 50 - 0.15(50)= 405 - 7.5  = 397.5
349+37+37 - 0.15(37) = 417.45mm

A 20mm difference assuming 15% tyre drop. Fit 150mm Cranks perhaps?

.....crosshead bike before, looks good. Essentially the best 20" design would be something of that sort, or like this:  http://vello.bike/
Ahh, also interesting.

Re: 20in but Brompton-ish folding style folder? ie more compact
« Reply #4 on: 07 September, 2017, 06:28:05 pm »
As has been mentioned, I think they may've missed a trick with the fold not keeping the chain on the inside, once it is folded.
Having watched the how-it-folds video in stop-motion mode several times, I remain to be convinced that it couldn't have been done differently - with the chain within the fold.

Re: 20in but Brompton-ish folding style folder? ie more compact
« Reply #5 on: 07 September, 2017, 10:32:44 pm »
A Dahon (I've got one) is undeniably bigger folded than a Brompton. However, it's not that much bigger, even though it does push a strict reading of the limits that you mentioned. A Brompton gives a decent ride and a fold that's pretty-much unbeatable. Once you're prepared to compromise on folded size and go to 20", I think the Dahon family are similarly hard to beat, and I like the ride better. Obviously a 20" Brompton would have a better ride too, but it would be entering a crowded market and giving up its USP to boot.

In practice, almost anything seems to go on our line. Whilst the vast majority use Bromptons, and what seems like a significant and increasing minority Dahons, we get the odd 24" folder and other very large packages, and even the occasional road bike stacked with its wheels out. Also one or two Airnimals, which fold smaller than many 24" bikes, but substantially larger than the limit - a clubmate uses one when getting the train into town and riding the 40-odd miles home.

I've never seen anyone questioned, even when one or two took unfolded bikes - although those simply don't fit on the more crowded trains. I've had one or two trains I couldn't get on with a folded Dahon.

zigzag

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Re: 20in but Brompton-ish folding style folder? ie more compact
« Reply #6 on: 10 September, 2017, 05:45:07 pm »
while i would like to see a brompton-like folder in 20" wheel size it would be even heavier which is not really desirable for the bikes that are being carried around more than any other type of bike. tidy fold is not essential for me and makes very little difference (as long as the bike is accepted in the trains and other public transport), but the ride quality and better handling make significant difference.

Re: 20in but Brompton-ish folding style folder? ie more compact
« Reply #7 on: 11 September, 2017, 11:17:42 am »
Sounds like a big apple  305mmBrompton option is best and best leave  (406) 20in wheels to other manufacturers?