Author Topic: Caffeine withdrawal  (Read 6265 times)

Ben T

Caffeine withdrawal
« on: 10 May, 2018, 11:06:15 am »
Thought it might be interesting to gain views on caffeine withdrawal for a long ride involving an intended non-sleeping night, i.e. 'ride through'. How much of an effect it has on wakefulness, why, what schedule to adopt and whether/when to drink coffee on the ride itself?




Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #1 on: 10 May, 2018, 11:18:06 am »
Did it years ago and never looked back.

Stopping drinking coffee for a few days before a ride had little or no effect in my experience, it took a week of going cold turkey for it to be of any benefit on a ride. During that week I slept very poorly, soaked through my pillow from night sweats every single night (to the point I had to cover my pillow in a towel each night and get up and change it at least once during each night) and was a tad rattier than usual according to Mrs GB. It's a pernicious drug (I was probably drinking 5 or 6 cups of coffee a day back then).

Since doing that though I sleep so much better and I have to limit myself to a single caffeineated coffee a day (and if I have that single one after 5pm I may have trouble sleeping). Instead I drink decaf (luckily I'm not a coffee snob and so I make do with Saino's gold roast instant decaf most of the time) and up to 10 cups of that a day (which fits given it contains about 1/10th of the caffeine of a normal coffee).

I've only done 3 or so long Audaxes since giving up caffeine (BCM, LEL and PBP). In all cases I had a coffee when I needed it and it worked wonders most of the time (the only time that failed was one night on LEL'09 and I needed a 45 minute power nap to recover, although I think I inadvertently stumbled across the concept of the nappucino by doing that).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #2 on: 10 May, 2018, 11:45:12 am »
Like Alex, I gave up years ago to allow its use for "special purposes" - i.e. audax!  It's only when you are in the process of quitting that you realise what a powerful drug it is.  I had splitting migraines for days, along with stomach and leg cramps.

I exist perfectly happily without, drinking decaf green tea and coffee.  When I do resort to a coffee, energy drink or, in extremis, caffeine gum it's like taking rocket fuel!
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #3 on: 10 May, 2018, 12:19:06 pm »
I tried this once prior to a 24 and have no desire to repeat the experience. Though as a tea drinker rather than a coffee drinker I may not be having quite the same caffeine boosts. If you want to try here are some important points to consider:

1. Withdrawal takes about a week and is thoroughly miserable.

2. Decaffeinated tea tastes horrible. If that isn't enough to dissuade you, look up the decaffeination process on Wikipedia and it will put you off drinking anything decaffeinated for life.

 3. I'm not convinced it actually did anything for my wakefulness. Though at the time I was weekly commuting between Scotland and London and so was probably in permanent sleep debt. Really I think the most important thing is to be properly rested before the event, it's quite possible to miss one night's sleep in those circumstances without ill effect.

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #4 on: 10 May, 2018, 01:31:42 pm »
I was also a tea rather than coffee drinker but the caffeine levels even in green tea are remarkably high.  4 cups a day was enough to make giving up extremely miserable.

Agreed decaf stuff is variable in taste.  I've settled for Tetley's decaf green tea - very insipid but certainly not unpleasant.  As for the decaf process I remember reading about it and it's certainly not without issues, not least of which is buying the stuff back again in the form of energy drinks and gum!
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #5 on: 10 May, 2018, 01:35:29 pm »
I exist perfectly happily without, drinking lesbian tea and occasionally decaf green tea and coffee.  When I do resort to a coffee, energy drink or, in extremis, caffeine gum it's like taking rocket fuel!

That^

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #6 on: 10 May, 2018, 01:42:05 pm »
I once gave up any caffeine after midday - couldn't give it up entirely as I enjoy my morning coffee too much, but I found even that made a big difference along the same lines as Greenbank's experience (though I never did anything longer than a 600).

If you want to give it up entirely, the best way to go about it is to cut down gradually. Going complete cold turkey is very unpleasant. I've done it a few times and the headaches are excruciating.

And I would suggest that you need to do it at least a few weeks ahead of any big ride to really feel the benefit.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #7 on: 10 May, 2018, 01:47:08 pm »
I think, like any drug, it affects different people in different ways.

I don't get much in the way of withdrawal symptoms but then again I never truly feel the "rocket fuel" effect either*

I've done a couple of PBPs and many overnight Audaxes but never thought coffee would help me stay awake.  It may do but there's no noticeable "Pep" in my case.

I'd suggest that, if you get a noticeable effect from a cup of coffee then it may be a good idea to go cold-turkey for a while, to achieve maximum "pep" during a ride.


*It's quite possible that my crack-cocaine and Ketamine habit is masking the effect.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #8 on: 10 May, 2018, 01:54:51 pm »
I'm in a the opposite situation. I don't drink tea or coffee at all and have never done. With my first big multi-day ride coming up this year I was toying with the idea of caffeine tablets (or, more simply, a cup of coffee) if I struggle with sleep deprivation. However, I'm a bit concerned I might not sleep for a week !!

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #9 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:00:16 pm »
I'm in a the opposite situation. I don't drink tea or coffee at all and have never done. With my first big multi-day ride coming up this year I was toying with the idea of caffeine tablets (or, more simply, a cup of coffee) if I struggle with sleep deprivation. However, I'm a bit concerned I might not sleep for a week !!

It's not something I'd start doing if I wasn't used to it. 

A multi-day ride isn't the optimal time to discover that caffeine gives you the shits or stomach cramps.  Multi-day rides are about knowing exactly what you are comfortable with eating and drinking*

*YAZOO Milkshakes...sat on a bag of solid fuel, outside an Esso garage (Audax Banquet)
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #10 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:04:25 pm »
If you want to give it up entirely, the best way to go about it is to cut down gradually. Going complete cold turkey is very unpleasant. I've done it a few times and the headaches are excruciating.

Blimey, I checked back and realised I made no mention of the headaches in my post. Yes. Excruciating. For a week. Joy.

Taking various pain relief can be pointless too as many of the 'max' or 'plus' or 'ultra' versions contain caffeine to boost the metabolism in order to get them processed and acting faster. All you do is continue to feed the caffeine addiction.

Best to combine going cold turkey with something like a stint on Jury Duty.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #11 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:07:31 pm »
I agree with (almost*) everything written above, except I'd cross out 'coffee' and replace it with 'carbs'.

As an addictive stimulant, coffee is nowhere near as powerful as sugar, I find.

*Mebbe it's a brand thing but I find green tea innocuous compared to regular black tea, possibly because it's generally drunk much fresher, i.e., it's not left to 'brew'.


LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #12 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:18:44 pm »
I agree with (almost*) everything written above, except I'd cross out 'coffee' and replace it with 'carbs'.

Absolutely agree. 
Cutting out carbs will (eventually) make you "fat adapted" which is incredibly useful for long-distance cycling. 
It's very useful not to be dependent solely on carbs as fuel*, essential almost.

*Which is why most non-cyclists "bonk" before they reach Brighton on the L2B.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #13 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:39:17 pm »
I agree with (almost*) everything written above, except I'd cross out 'coffee' and replace it with 'carbs'.

Absolutely agree. 
Cutting out carbs will (eventually) make you "fat adapted" which is incredibly useful for long-distance cycling. 
It's very useful not to be dependent solely on carbs as fuel*, essential almost.

*Which is why most non-cyclists "bonk" before they reach Brighton on the L2B.

This is really important for any endurance sport, but it takes a blooming long time!

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #14 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:42:25 pm »
I agree with (almost*) everything written above, except I'd cross out 'coffee' and replace it with 'carbs'.

Absolutely agree. 
Cutting out carbs will (eventually) make you "fat adapted" which is incredibly useful for long-distance cycling. 
It's very useful not to be dependent solely on carbs as fuel*, essential almost.

*Which is why most non-cyclists "bonk" before they reach Brighton on the L2B.

This is really important for any endurance sport, but it takes a blooming long time!

Yes it does, especially if you rely only on just riding long-distance to do it. 
You can definitely speed things up/improve your adaptation by going on a Ketogenic diet though.  It's fundamentally about training your body to access fat reserves efficiently rather than rely on carbs (which only gets you about 2.5 hours down the road).

My main use of coffee is as an appetite suppressant at the start of "going Keto" .
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #15 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:50:30 pm »
If you're serious about kicking coffee, It's easy if you can time it with catching a cold.
I spent a day in bed feeling awful and forgot to have any coffee on Day 1. Once i realised this, I stayed away from it on purpose. Because I felt so dreadful anyway, I barely noticed the withdrawal symptoms.  Job done!

I am back on it now though. There really is nothing like that morning coffee. Ummmm.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #16 on: 10 May, 2018, 03:06:26 pm »
I am a regular caffeine drinker.  I try to regulate my intake to 4 caffeinated drinks a day (with a large coffee shop coffee counting as 2), although at times of work stress that can increase to 5 - 8.   On most Audax events I can't source that level of intake - Coke gives me stomach cramps, reflux, hiccups, etc - and so 8 - 12 hours into the ride I start to suffer from caffeine withdrawal - my power output goes down, I get the dozies, and feel generally dreadful.  At night multiply these symptoms by 2.

Since the Moor Like a 400, which I abandoned halfway round because of the above (in 2005), I've adopted a principle of caffeine abstention before a big ride (over 300km).  The results have nearly always been positive.  I've experimented with different lengths of abstention (4 weeks before PBP2007) down to 4 days for last weekend's Porkers.  And it works for me.  (The few times I haven't abstained have correlated with below par efforts). 

A couple of things I have learnt.  It help to go down to half measures for the first couple of days - ie 2 drinks.   I will suffer headaches and listlessness for a couple of days, but because I know why they're manageable (and perhaps easier to cope with on the 30th repetition of a caffeine fast).  A week is long enough.  That first coffee is like rocket fuel.  So use it wisely.  But I'll often have  a tea at the start of the ride.  The tea is more slow release than the coffee, which can have a peak and crash (like a Mars bar has with sugar), and Red Bull and similar drinks don't work for me - a huge spike and almighty low afterwards.

Eddington Numbers 130 (imperial), 183 (metric) 574 (furlongs)  116 (nautical miles)

telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #17 on: 10 May, 2018, 04:06:53 pm »
I'm in a the opposite situation. I don't drink tea or coffee at all and have never done. With my first big multi-day ride coming up this year I was toying with the idea of caffeine tablets (or, more simply, a cup of coffee) if I struggle with sleep deprivation. However, I'm a bit concerned I might not sleep for a week !!

If you're not into hot drinks, cold coffees are increasingly available at petrol stations and elsewhere e.g. Starbucks Doubleshot. These generally have a higher milk content than the hot ones which is useful protein. Particularly pleasant on a hot day but as with anything, don't try it for the first time on a long ride!
2019 🏅 R1000 and B1000

Ben T

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #18 on: 10 May, 2018, 10:46:21 pm »
To anyone who does benefit, or has benefited, from caffeine withdrawal prior to an audax: is it only a benefit due to the increased staying awake effect of the first coffee when you do finally drink one, or does it have benefits even without that?

Personally I'm not interested in giving it up for good or for any reason other than that it might improve an audax, although I may change my mind on that if I see evidence during any experience that there may be other benefits.

I know there are headaches, I've had them. I remember i once did one of those drug trials when I was a student and caffeine wasn't allowed during the week, and I had to pack due to the headaches.

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #19 on: 10 May, 2018, 10:53:39 pm »
To anyone who does benefit, or has benefited, from caffeine withdrawal prior to an audax: is it only a benefit due to the increased staying awake effect of the first coffee when you do finally drink one, or does it have benefits even without that?

The benefit for me is mainly in the first intake of the day.  Further doses have diminishing effect.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Ben T

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #20 on: 10 May, 2018, 10:54:45 pm »
.  The tea is more slow release than the coffee, which can have a peak and crash (like a Mars bar has with sugar),
Is it really, ah that's interesting. I've read that it's actually got more caffeine in it than coffee, but you don't (ever) absorb it all so in actual fact you get less in total. But the speed of release is an interesting aspect.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #21 on: 10 May, 2018, 11:45:43 pm »
To anyone who does benefit, or has benefited, from caffeine withdrawal prior to an audax: is it only a benefit due to the increased staying awake effect of the first coffee when you do finally drink one, or does it have benefits even without that.

I think so, yes. Main reason being that you will get better quality of sleep at night, so will be better rested ahead of your event.

Cutting out alcohol in the build-up to a big ride will be beneficial for the same reason.

Thinking back a few years to when I was super-fit, I’m sure my good health was as much down to the fact that I was getting regular, good quality sleep as the regular exercise and controlled diet. But they are all related and feed into each other in a virtuous circle, so just cutting out caffeine may not be sufficient by itself.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #22 on: 11 May, 2018, 08:45:59 am »
.  The tea is more slow release than the coffee, which can have a peak and crash (like a Mars bar has with sugar),
Is it really, ah that's interesting. I've read that it's actually got more caffeine in it than coffee, but you don't (ever) absorb it all so in actual fact you get less in total. But the speed of release is an interesting aspect.

Yes, as a weight for weight comparison.

I have an 11am coffee rule as I'm sensitive to caffeine. I do notice the effects when I abstain for a ride, when I tend to really notice it is more on shorter fast rides when if I'm struggling to maintain a pace I'll have a coffee and a full fat coke, after that I'm absolutely flying and hyped to hell, of course there's a massive crash some short time later but it's fun while it lasts, you can't repeat the trick very often, apart from it being really bad for your pancreas it rapidly leads to gastric distress and lots of hedgerow stops.

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #23 on: 11 May, 2018, 08:46:38 am »
I think so, yes. Main reason being that you will get better quality of sleep at night, so will be better rested ahead of your event.

Cutting out alcohol in the build-up to a big ride will be beneficial for the same reason.

Thinking back a few years to when I was super-fit, I’m sure my good health was as much down to the fact that I was getting regular, good quality sleep as the regular exercise and controlled diet. But they are all related and feed into each other in a virtuous circle, so just cutting out caffeine may not be sufficient by itself.

I think that's right.  For me quitting caffeine was part of a bigger health drive including better diet (eventually settling on intermittent fasting), weight loss and cutting out other dependencies.  Combined they have led to a marked increase in overall health and, as a benefit, cycling performance.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Caffeine withdrawal
« Reply #24 on: 11 May, 2018, 09:11:48 am »
To anyone who does benefit, or has benefited, from caffeine withdrawal prior to an audax: is it only a benefit due to the increased staying awake effect of the first coffee when you do finally drink one, or does it have benefits even without that?

YMMV but it was the decreasing benefits experience for me, it was still useful on days 4 or 5 of a long ride. I only used it when I was getting dozy (i.e. between controls) and wasn't able to sleep, if I was able to sleep then that was my preferred option. If you try and push things too far even caffeine won't help (e.g. it didn't help me enough on night 3 of LEL'09 and I had to have a roadside nap).

Personally I'm not interested in giving it up for good or for any reason other than that it might improve an audax, although I may change my mind on that if I see evidence during any experience that there may be other benefits.

Looking back I'm so glad I gave it up regardless of the occasional help it has been on an Audax. I've never had problems with sleep, either quantity or perceived quality, but since giving up caffeine the quality of my sleep has improved dramatically. Before giving up I would have said that my sleep was "ok" if not "good", but I now know it wasn't.

If in doubt, give it up for a month and then see how you feel (and sleep).

As I said, I'm lucky in that I'm not a coffee snob and so I'm more than happy drinking instant decaf (it took me a while to find a brand that didn't taste like Bovril). Most cafes/restaurants do perfectly passable decaf too and if they don't I'll just have water.

It's nice to be free from the grip of the "morning coffee" and as an ex-smoker I can definitely see the addition/dependency/ritual parallels. I've noticeably reduced my booze intake too (cutting out the unnecessary/ritualistic consumption) but that's something I can never see myself reducing to zero - but avoiding exceeding the recommended limits is a step in the right direction.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."