Author Topic: LED room lighting (again)  (Read 29905 times)

LED room lighting (again)
« on: September 14, 2011, 05:09:33 pm »
Not economic or bright enough even six months ago.  But I found new Philips 7W GU10 lamps for £12 each (EDIT: £12.99) on eBay.  2700K "very warm white", 25 degree spotlight beam angle.  They are absolutely brilliant, i.e. they work exactly the same as the old 50W halogens but use 14% of the power (a 172W saving!).  They even look good because the profile of the heatsink happens to match the spotlight fitting as if the two were designed that way.  Payback period should be 2 years or less based on 2.5 hours use per day (it's less in summer and more in winter).

Keep an eye out, because at the RRP of about £30 they are not economic.  Also avoid the versions with a higher colour temperature as they will be nothing like halogen and more like old CFLs.
Never tell me the odds.

border-rider

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 05:19:11 pm »
We have Aurora 8.5 W 35 degree dimmable LEDs in our kitchen.  They are fantastic, though we went for 4200 K colour temp as the 2700s were way too orange for kitchen use.  4 Cree emitters in each.

They did cost £30 apiece though*, so £12 for the Philips ones is a steal.  I might bag some to replace the crappy CFL spots in other parts of the house.

*and there's a lot of them.  In our case it's a 700 W saving,

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 05:57:43 pm »
They're also available, and more common, in a 40 degree beam.  The thing I hated most about the Megaman CFL GU10s* was the wide beam (also the sickly colour and the 3 minute - yes really - warmup time), hence I went for the narrowest option here.  They certainly put more light where it's wanted than the halogens.

*stuck with them for 18 months, took them out one Christmas "just for the festivities" and couldn't bear to put them back.  Can lighting inspire so much hate?  Yes!
Never tell me the odds.

LEE

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2011, 06:02:03 pm »
My kitchen has 500W of GU10s right now (that I always hesitate to turn on).  Very interested in this thread.

Do you have a link to the Ebay shop?

With the disappearance of 100w and 60w bayonet filament bulbs I'm also keen to know what LED equivalents/replacements are like.

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2011, 07:55:50 pm »
£12.99, my mistake.  Still pays back in two years on my calculation.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220846669263&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:GB:1123

5 left at the moment.  Remember - these are 25 degree spots, which I like but they will leave the floor and ceiling of your kitchen rather dark.  40 degree spots are more widely available.
Never tell me the odds.

tonycollinet

  • No Longer a western province of Númenor
Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2011, 08:06:20 pm »
Just ordered 3 - sorry Lee, but I don't thing there were enough for you in any case.

border-rider

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 09:08:07 pm »
We now have 79 GU10 fittings.  You can imagine the incentive to replace the halogens with CFLs and LEDs  ;D

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2011, 04:21:34 am »
I think my sister-in-law also has about 1500W of lighting just for the stairs and landing.  Builders should be shot for fitting so many GU10 housings; they're worse for the leccy bill than tumble driers if they're in rooms which are used a lot.

Are there any CFLs that genuinely come on instantly and can cope with being flicked on and off for short periods?  The upcoming ban on 60W round bulbs is a problem for lighting our hall and stairs.  The LED alternative is now available at £55 each, which would have a payback period of about three centuries given how little the lights are used.
Never tell me the odds.

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2011, 07:02:58 am »
I think my sister-in-law also has about 1500W of lighting just for the stairs and landing.  Builders should be shot for fitting so many GU10 housings; they're worse for the leccy bill than tumble driers if they're in rooms which are used a lot.

Are there any CFLs that genuinely come on instantly and can cope with being flicked on and off for short periods?  The upcoming ban on 60W round bulbs is a problem for lighting our hall and stairs.  The LED alternative is now available at £55 each, which would have a payback period of about three centuries given how little the lights are used.
I've got cheapo Tesco own-brand 11W "Stick" CFLs (http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=259117114) on my hall and landing.

These are better than any of the branded products I have tried as they don't flicker, come on immediately at acceptable brightness and don't seem inclined to fail quickly. I've also tried philips but they were a lot worse (and megman which were terrible).

The only snag I see with the Tesco own-brand product is that they could change sourcing at any moment and the replacement version could be completely different.

I've got 12 GU10s in my kitchen and I haven't found an acceptable lamp replacement for these eco-disasters yet. The fittings are too small to take any of the alternatives I have looked at so far (and I couldn't bring myself to pay £30 for leds - crazy money). I've dropped the lamps down to 35W as they have failed - which is also relatively often  ::-)

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2011, 07:47:52 am »
As we have a dozen or so GU10's (bathroom and kitchen) I'll be following this thread  :).  Those lamps are most of our lighting usage.  Otherwise the majority of lighting with higher usage is from various table lamps in living room and bedroom.  here we use Philips Turbo (or possibly Tornado) 20W CFL. Fast starting and as bright as conventional 100W bulbs - so good in fact that my wife will tolertae one as her bedside reading light.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2011, 08:00:13 am »
I've had a quick look round the 'net following on from this thread. The Aurora 6W GU10 is good value (<£15) and looks pretty enough that it might work as a 35W replacement in one of my kitchen fixtures where the whole bulb is exposed.

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2011, 08:47:52 am »
Hmm, having looked at the Philips bulbs they're no good for me - they are a much longer bulb than the standard halogens so won't fit the recessessed fitting we have, particularly the IP reated ones in the bathroom.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2011, 07:41:42 pm »
I've had a quick look round the 'net following on from this thread. The Aurora 6W GU10 is good value (<£15) and looks pretty enough that it might work as a 35W replacement in one of my kitchen fixtures where the whole bulb is exposed.
Bought 2 to try them. Brightness is good, but 4000k is just too white and clinical for our kitchen general room lighting.

I'll have to get a couple of 3000k ones to see if they are too yellow since the standard halogens seem to be 3500k  ::-)

They look good in fixtures where the whole lamp is exposed, the swoopy silver heatsink looks pretty good to me.

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2011, 12:04:05 pm »
I've just ordered 10 x MR16 Cree LEDs for the bathroom.  The payback period on these is longer (4 years for a 170W saving, because the LEDs are £85) but they are the best quality ones, with single LEDs, and also guaranteed to work with the existing transformers.  Some 12V LEDs need a conventional magnetic transformer which is expensive and requires FAFF to swap over.

The other advantage of the LEDs is that I no longer have to have 10 holes in the loft insulation to let the heat escape.

Report soon.  I suspect they will be rather bright  8) as they're more like 35W equivalent to replace 20W halogens, but there wasn't a great choice in 2W.
Never tell me the odds.

LEE

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 03:21:05 pm »
A good point implied by RZ is that Halogen spots are a fire risk and SHOULD (although hardly anyone bothers) have a heat/fire retardent shroud over them in a confied space.  Many will be encased in loft insulation.

LEDs should run cold/cool by comparison.  I may get some just for this reason alone.

tonycollinet

  • No Longer a western province of Númenor
Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2011, 09:32:32 pm »
Well my three (based on the OP) have arrived.

Initial impression - colour good. Not convinced of the 50W equivalence. However, they are bright enough for the room I am lighting.

border-rider

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2011, 11:12:32 am »
A good point implied by RZ is that Halogen spots are a fire risk and SHOULD (although hardly anyone bothers) have a heat/fire retardent shroud over them in a confied space.  Many will be encased in loft insulation.

LEDs should run cold/cool by comparison.  I may get some just for this reason alone.

This is another reason we're changing all ours. They run at a couple of hundred degrees, and in an enclosed dusty space...

They also mean that we can't have proper loft insulation.

By-the-by: building regs require that the fittings be fire-resistant to the same extent as the ceiling they're mounted in.  None of ours are, and that's another reason they have to go.

The new fittings are bigger and the (mains) GU10 LED/CFL lamps are also fiddled so that only they will fit in the new fittings (ie you can't put in "eco" rated light fittings & then subsequently swap the bulbs out for halogens)

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2011, 08:50:56 pm »
Well my three (based on the OP) have arrived.

Initial impression - colour good. Not convinced of the 50W equivalence.
I am; the patches of light on the worktop are MUCH brighter than the 50W halogens, although these are 25 deg rather than 38 deg or whatever the halogens were, so you'd expect that.  On balance, I'd say the same amount of light is coming from them.  Unfortunately getting lumens figures for halogens is tricky.
Never tell me the odds.

border-rider

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2011, 08:55:10 pm »
The 8.5 W Auroras appear *much* brighter than 50W halogens, but colour temperature plays a part; the 2700k ones subjectively looked way dimmer than the 4000k ones and also the halogens.  The beam angle is comparable though

I today ordered some 6 W ones at £12 as a trial (we don't need the intensity that the 8.5 W ones give elsewhere than the kitchen)

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2011, 09:03:29 pm »
I read somewhere today that if every household had 3 low energy fittings that would save enough energy for all street lighting nationally. LEDs are of course much more efficient than Low energy fittings.
Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2011, 09:15:06 pm »
Only slightly, and only recently (and at much greater cost).  The traditional fluorescent tube took a lot of beating, saving about 80% compared to incandescent.  CFLs are more like 60-75% in my experience; a 20W CFL isn't really equivalent to a 100W bulb, especially the cheap ones.  I have a B&Q 20W CFL at each corner of the garage and they provide nothing more than "mood lighting".

The latest 20W CFL spirals from the major brands are very good.
Never tell me the odds.

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2011, 09:25:04 pm »
LEDs are coming on leaps and bounds tho and agree about newer fittings. The aged ones are moaning about inability to source incandescent light fittings but are loathe to install low energy units due to pre conceptions and out of date experiences.
Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

LEE

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2011, 09:25:26 pm »
I have one 50W Halogen in the downstairs Loo that will be a good place to start trialling an LED replacement.

I'd like a fairly wide beam and a colour temperature that doesn't result in a blue-white glare of my B&M CYO front light but also isn't too yellow.

1 - What bulb would meet those requirements?
2 - Have we established a cheap and reputable stockist?

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2011, 09:29:29 pm »
I have one 50W Halogen in the downstairs Loo that will be a good place to start trialling an LED replacement.

I'd like a fairly wide beam and a colour temperature that doesn't result in a blue-white glare of my B&M CYO front light but also isn't too yellow.

1 - What bulb would meet those requirements?
2 - Have we established a cheap and reputable stockist?

1. You'd need a 40 deg beam, assuming the halogen is the usual 38 deg or so.  The Philips ones are about 3x as long as a halogen GU10 and won't go into a recessed fitting if that's what you have.

2700K is about the same as a GU10 50W halogen.

2. Not really; that was a limited amount of stock.  The going rate if you shop around is about £27, which isn't worth it as the thing might crap out before you reach the payback period.
Never tell me the odds.

border-rider

Re: LED room lighting (again)
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2011, 09:31:42 pm »
1 - What bulb would meet those requirements?

I was quite surprised when we set up our beauty parade before we chose the kitchen lights (this was 6 months ago though)

Some of them were sickly green/lurid blue, but the 2700 K Auroras were way too warm. We went for 4000 K in the end, which wasn't what i expected, but for a kitchen with warm wooden units & floor they're ace. You might want a warmer one for a loo

I can recommend Aurora though; we have 20 in our kitchen  :o

Quote
2 - Have we established a cheap and reputable stockist?

They're on Amazon, £12.99.