Author Topic: 5p bags  (Read 13510 times)

Martin

5p bags
« on: 01 October, 2015, 04:55:56 pm »
About time too  :thumbsup:

just a thought; the big piles of currently free bags next to the self service checkouts in Tesco etc, how are they supposed to know if you've taken one (or even 10)?

better idea would be that if you don't press the "I brought my own bag" button (which in my case corresponds to "I don't want one but I'll have the 1 green point for not using one thanks") it adds 5p to the bill  ;)

Kim

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #1 on: 01 October, 2015, 05:44:05 pm »
I expect this means that I'm going to have to start buying bin liners.  Or continue as normal and pay for the bags.

Not that that's really a problem, given the abundant evidence in every hedgerow that many people don't seem to manage to re-use bags.   >:(

What do green points mean?

Basil

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #2 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:04:37 pm »
I don't think it's so much about collecting the 5 pences, more about encouraging a change in culture.
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Kim

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #3 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:10:08 pm »
I don't think it's so much about collecting the 5 pences, more about encouraging a change in culture.

Indeed.  As soon as the bag becomes not-free, people are more likely to re-use it, or use something else.

Re: 5p bags
« Reply #4 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:10:58 pm »
Tesco have been giving away their "bags for life" but will start to charge for them again next week.
Sainsbury's stopped giving points for own bags a while ago, around the same time that they put up the price of tinned pineapple by 25%!  :(
Apart from a couple of occasions I've been own bagging since '91.  :thumbsup:

Green points, is that a Co-op scheme?

Re: 5p bags
« Reply #5 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:17:04 pm »
the plastic is devastating to wildlife


but its okay if you pay 5p for a bag
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Biggsy

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #6 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:23:42 pm »
It's okay if you don't buy a plastic bag, which is what's being encouraged by charging for them.

Shame paper bags aren't more common in the UK, I think.

1 Tesco Green point = 1 normal point, but listed separately on your statement to make you feel green.
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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #7 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:29:30 pm »
they'll still be disposable at 5p, people aren't more thoughtful of the environment because they can afford 5p bags

I agree, all bags should be like the old strong paper variety.
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Kim

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #8 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:30:29 pm »
they'll still be disposable at 5p, people aren't more thoughtful of the environment because they can afford 5p bags

They're more thoughtful of being wasteful with their 5ps, though, which has the same effect.  You can't carelessly dispose of a bag you haven't bought.

Re: 5p bags
« Reply #9 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:37:18 pm »
I don't think this will impact the carnage these things cause. If 50% of the purchased bags get thrown away, it's still enough to kill wildlife. I can't see why plastic is used when brown paper things can do the same job, then they can be recycled or at least degrade and not strangle or choke things.

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hellymedic

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #10 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:42:13 pm »
the plastic is devastating to wildlife
but its okay if you pay 5p for a bag

Careless disposal of plastic bags is devastating to wildlife. Reuse and recycling minimise the effect on wildlife.
Charging 5p can reduce wanton wastefulness and introduce some thought into the purchasing process.

I am still trying to work out the practicalities of receiving my groceries without bags without delaying the delivery driver, inconveniencing partner or damaging some fragile items.

Bags are currently returned for recycling if not used as bin liners/laundry bags/pannier liners etc.

We minimise our plastic waste as much as we can.

Re: 5p bags
« Reply #11 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:45:59 pm »
Since they introduced the same scheme in Wales in 2011 the number of single use plastic bags used has gone down by 70% so charging 5p has a massive effect out of all proportion to the actual cost of the bags. It shifts the way people think.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #12 on: 01 October, 2015, 06:54:25 pm »
they'll still be disposable at 5p, people aren't more thoughtful of the environment because they can afford 5p bags

I bet you 5p they'll be a significant reduction in the number of bags issued, especially at supermarkets where people (including me, I'm afraid) have been grabbing ten or fifteen bags at a time.  I won't want to pay 50p extra, so I'll more often take my own proper bags shopping.  Even the odd single 5p will influence me sometimes.  It's not that I can't afford 5p, it's just that I don't think one of those silly flimsy little bags is worth 5p!
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Kim

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #13 on: 01 October, 2015, 07:02:30 pm »
the plastic is devastating to wildlife
but its okay if you pay 5p for a bag

Careless disposal of plastic bags is devastating to wildlife. Reuse and recycling minimise the effect on wildlife.
Charging 5p can reduce wanton wastefulness and introduce some thought into the purchasing process.

I am still trying to work out the practicalities of receiving my groceries without bags without delaying the delivery driver, inconveniencing partner or damaging some fragile items.

Bags are currently returned for recycling if not used as bin liners/laundry bags/pannier liners etc.

We minimise our plastic waste as much as we can.

Similarly, I only acquire plastic bags when doing a Big Horriblemarket (or random shop) shop.  Most of our day to day shopping is at Aldi, and I re-use Horriblemarket bags to simplify handling and prevent leaks in hard-to-clean panniers.  They go into the plastic bags bag for re-use, ending the cycle when either get given to someone who needs a thing wrapped in a plastic bag, they fall apart, or get used as bin liners.

The difference in shopping habits I notice most at Aldi, compared to the other supermarkets, is that disorganised shoppers will go to much greater lengths to carry their shopping with a minimum of 5p bags.  Organised shoppers bring their own durable or re-used bags.  The other thing is that the staff aren't foisting extra bags on you by doing your packing for you, as they tend to in smaller supermarkets when a queue forms.

I expect this will mean a few less bags flapping about in hedges, which can only be a good thing.

I'm not sure about paper bags... the ones without handles are probably more wildlife-friendly, but I doubt the total environmental cost is clear-cut when you consider the energy involved.  And they're less good at containing leaks, which is the main reason for wanting plastic bags in the first place.

What I do miss is the big pen of useful cardboard boxes that supermarkets used to have for the taking.  It seems to me that the wholesale packaging is much less conducive to re-use these days (cardboard tray + shrink-wrap being typical, rather than a box), and it just goes straight to recycling.

ian

Re: 5p bags
« Reply #14 on: 01 October, 2015, 07:07:04 pm »
It's a reminder what a horribly indulgent society we've become. Why sell disposable plastic bags? I doubt many of the people who favour chucking them in hedges are really that bothered about 5p. Sure, nice folks might, but they're not the ones using that favoured disposal route. Is it that hard to buy a reusable bag and reuse it?

It's a grim reminder living on a school route. Pretty much none of the kids think twice about dropping whatever wrapped the piece of junk they've shoved into their gobs or the bottle or can of whatever sugar solutions they've just glugged. Everything is disposable. I come home with two hands full of litter every day.

Re: 5p bags
« Reply #15 on: 01 October, 2015, 07:09:30 pm »
the majority on here (and even some people who don't visit here :o) are sensible and will recycle their bags for other purposes. Its the small percent of idiots that won't recycle, or care.

the 5p will have an effect, but it still doesn't sort the carrier bag problem out



another thing to look at is the bigger worldwide problem with plastics. The UK is a tiny dot that recycles things and the nation as a whole does other green things to help the environment.

The rest of the world couldn't give a flying f**k, take a walk along a beach in any country.

The 5p is a tax that won't cure the problem it's aimed at. The issue needs fixing, not bodging.

Nothing will change my mind about plastics. I've seen what it does to wildlife and it's not nice.
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Biggsy

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #16 on: 01 October, 2015, 07:15:11 pm »
Unlike some other plastics, at least the modern flimsy shop bags break up in UV light to somewhat reduce the strangling and choking hazard to wildlife, although they don't degrade completely.  Microscopic plastic particles are found everywhere, even in the sea - possibly a more fundamental problem in the long run for wildlife that is effectively forced to eat the stuff, and us who eat the wildlife.
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Kim

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #17 on: 01 October, 2015, 07:24:54 pm »
Carrier bags are surely the tip of the plastics iceberg, in the global scheme of things.

It is, after all, the primary component of lqt (as they say in uk.rec.sheds).  I don't know how anyone can make a real difference in that globally.  It's only going to become prohibitively expensive *after* the shit hits the fan because oil becomes too expensive to burn.

Basil

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #18 on: 01 October, 2015, 07:32:02 pm »
It's a reminder what a horribly indulgent society we've become. Why sell disposable plastic bags? I doubt many of the people who favour chucking them in hedges are really that bothered about 5p.

Ian.  Hopefully you will be surprised.  It's been four years in Wales, and now you just don't see bags in the hedgerows anymore. 1
It didn't happen overnight, but as I said up thread, it's not about the five p, its about making people think.
Asking for bags at the check out should be illustrated with a " The Man Who" H. M. Bateman cartoon.

1 OK, there's still the dog poo bag fruit, but that's another issue.
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Kim

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #19 on: 01 October, 2015, 08:07:12 pm »
Ian.  Hopefully you will be surprised.  It's been four years in Wales, and now you just don't see bags in the hedgerows anymore.

This is one of the really striking things about cycling in Wales.  In the Midlands you're never more than a hundred metres of verge from the next plastic bag, coke bottle, nappy or McDonald's wrapper.  In rural Wales you can go for miles without seeing anything that looks obviously discarded (as opposed to fallen-off-the-back-of-the-van items).  At one point on last year's tour I started properly looking for rubbish, and eventually - on the way in to the next village - came across a rosette for third place in a being-a-cow competition that had been held the previous week.

Dog poo bags are more of an urban phenomenon, of course.  The bulk of hedgerow litter comes from motorists who don't give a fuck.

Chris S

Re: 5p bags
« Reply #20 on: 01 October, 2015, 08:10:25 pm »
This is something we were really struck by in France this year. Little or any litter in the verges and hedgerows. Or anywhere much, really. They just don't seem to do it. Must be a Brit Thing.

Kim

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #21 on: 01 October, 2015, 08:17:34 pm »
I'd like to blame public litter bins for being non-existent[1] or overflowing, but I suspect the real answer is that most people just don't give a crap.


[1] Brits have been removing public litter bins because terrorism for years before it was the trendy catch-all excuse for things.

mattc

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #22 on: 01 October, 2015, 08:18:02 pm »
I am still trying to work out the practicalities of receiving my groceries without bags without delaying the delivery driver, inconveniencing partner or damaging some fragile items.

Bags are currently returned for recycling if not used as bin liners/laundry bags/pannier liners etc.
We choose
"delay the driver".

We have our own crates etc by the front door, so it's a pretty small delay.

Now obv you will delay the driver more than us,  but I suspect:
- its a tiny amount relative to costs/profits of vendor, and
- most drivers would be very understanding of your circs, especially if you are a regular. (if they get stroppy? well, what have you lost? f**k 'em! )
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hellymedic

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #23 on: 01 October, 2015, 08:24:21 pm »
Our drivers know us well; There are at least three 'regulars'.

Partner did ask about bagless deliveries. They do delay things.

I think we'll acquire some boxes/crates.

Eventually.

Kim

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Re: 5p bags
« Reply #24 on: 01 October, 2015, 09:00:14 pm »
Obvious solution:  For a small deposit they could let you keep the delivery trays until next time.