Chess not as a sport

[citoyen]

How about the fact that arbitrary definitions of what is and isn't a sport, or indeed what is a cake and what is a biscuit, are really not the point?

[Oaky]

How about this as a definition of "Not a Sport" ?

If the competitor can be successfully replaced with my Gran, whilst the competitor shouts instructions.... it's not a sport.

Chess - "..now move the Horsey-shaped one forward a bit and left a bit..no...not there.. one more..yes that's it.. now put it down and say the word "Check""

That could work (OK it may be a tad annoying for the other player).

Discus - "...now twirl round really fast and throw the heavy Frisbee thing through the hole in the net....No..that was shit...it only went 2 metres...spin faster and try for about 70 metres"

That wouldn't work...coz it's a sport.

Speedcubing (Rubiks cube solving against the clock) becomes a sport under your definition.  You may or may not agree that that is a sport.

Your Gran would probably also lose at Blitz Chess, even with Garry Kasparov shouting the instructions.

[PaulF]

I'd expand that to slightly to "If the competitor can be successfully replaced with my Gran, whilst the competitor shouts instructions and the winner is obvious to a layperson rather than a judge.... it's not a sport.

[mattc]

How about this as a definition of "Not a Sport" ?

If the competitor can be successfully replaced with my Gran, whilst the competitor shouts instructions.... it's not a sport.

Chess - "..now move the Horsey-shaped one forward a bit and left a bit..no...not there.. one more..yes that's it.. now put it down and say the word "Check""

That could work (OK it may be a tad annoying for the other player).

Discus - "...now twirl round really fast and throw the heavy Frisbee thing through the hole in the net....No..that was shit...it only went 2 metres...spin faster and try for about 70 metres"

That wouldn't work...coz it's a sport.

Speedcubing (Rubiks cube solving against the clock) becomes a sport under your definition.  You may or may not agree that that is a sport.

Your Gran would probably also lose at Blitz Chess, even with Garry Kasparov shouting the instructions.

Wrong - Lee's Rule is just for identifying many NON-Sports; he doesn't say how to prove that something IS a sport. He did put that bit in bold for you.

(Suppose I should add a to that ... )

[Oaky]

How about this as a definition of "Not a Sport" ?

If the competitor can be successfully replaced with my Gran, whilst the competitor shouts instructions.... it's not a sport.

Chess - "..now move the Horsey-shaped one forward a bit and left a bit..no...not there.. one more..yes that's it.. now put it down and say the word "Check""

That could work (OK it may be a tad annoying for the other player).

Discus - "...now twirl round really fast and throw the heavy Frisbee thing through the hole in the net....No..that was shit...it only went 2 metres...spin faster and try for about 70 metres"

That wouldn't work...coz it's a sport.

Speedcubing (Rubiks cube solving against the clock) becomes a sport under your definition.  You may or may not agree that that is a sport.

Your Gran would probably also lose at Blitz Chess, even with Garry Kasparov shouting the instructions.

Wrong - Lee's Rule is just for identifying many NON-Sports; he doesn't say how to prove that something IS a sport. He did put that bit in bold for you.

(Suppose I should add a to that ... )

OK - agreed.

Speedcubing is NOT "Not a Sport", under that definition.

Blitz chess is also NOT "Not a Sport".

[Legs]

I'd expand that to slightly to "If the competitor can be successfully replaced with my Gran, whilst the competitor shouts instructions and the winner is obvious to a layperson rather than a judge.... it's not a sport.

That excludes Olympic boxing. 

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

How about the fact that arbitrary definitions of what is and isn't a sport, or indeed what is a cake and what is a biscuit, are really not the point?

This post is not in the spirit of YACF at all. 

[LEE]

How about the fact that arbitrary definitions of what is and isn't a sport, or indeed what is a cake and what is a biscuit, are really not the point?

Are you suggesting that we stop aimlessly discussing pointless shit on YACF?

That's going to upset a lot of people.

Discuss.

Or....

Trying to throw a heavy saucer-shaped object as far as possible is not a proper Olympic Sport.

Discus.

[citoyen]

This post is not in the spirit of YACF at all. 

Fair point.

[PaulF]

I'd expand that to slightly to "If the competitor can be successfully replaced with my Gran, whilst the competitor shouts instructions and the winner is obvious to a layperson rather than a judge.... it's not a sport.

That excludes Olympic boxing. 

Yes, can't a downside myself

[Mr Larrington]

How about the fact that arbitrary definitions of what is and isn't a sport, or indeed what is a cake and what is a biscuit, are really not the point?

This post is not in the spirit of YACF at all. 

Surely you're not saying Citoyen is a spoilsport?

The blue blazer with brass buttons, please.

[spesh]

There is one way that chess could become an O Lympic sport. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing

[Exit Stage Left]

I find it hard to believe that no-one in the chess world has offered to help out with the accounting. They have possibly found that Mr Basman is difficult to deal with.

As you often heard me say, we are not just producing chess champions but super-kids who can run the world! So this crisis is a good opportunity to find out how the world works, and possibly to improve it. Hopefully children (and their parents!) will read my analysis and see if they agree.

I have pointed out earlier that I am in favour of taxation, but not if it involves excessive extra work (known as “compliance”). This might be because of the tax code book, an enormous tome, ten times longer than the Bible; or the detailed accounts that need to be kept, perhaps going back 10 or 20 years; the crazy VAT system where VAT is paid only to be claimed back; and don’t forget the hordes of accountants, book-keepers, lawyers and tax officers. All the work of keeping records and complying with the rules is completely unpaid but, all the salaries of tax officers and tax associated personnel must be paid for by the people, or through the higher prices of goods.

I raised the point with HMRC that this burden of extra unpaid work contravened Article 4 of the Human Rights Act (enclosed), the prohibition on slavery and forced labour. HMRC replied that their demands fell under Clause 4 (d) which excluded work done which formed part of “normal civic obligations”.

Now this phrase is extremely problematic. In the first place, tax and taxation costs are not specifically mentioned in clause 4 (d); in the second place, what is “normal”? Five hundred years ago, slavery was normal and so were many other things, like burning witches; “normal” does not mean right.

In the third place, is paying tax an obligation or a straight transaction? (i.e. “you run the country, I pay the tax”.)
Finally, and most importantly, no quantitative limits are placed on these obligations. How much forced, unpaid work is one expected to do? One day a week? A full week? Twenty four hours a day?

http://www.delanceyukschoolschesschallenge.com/pdf/2016%2008%20-%20Crisis%20or%20Celebration.pdf

[Wowbagger]

I went to my two remaining schools today, both of which have entered the UK Chess Challenge many times, in the first case every year that it has run. There was an envelope waiting for me, containing the piece ESL links to above, and another more amusing document:-

http://www.ukchesschallenge.com/docs/DailyEchoA3Poster.pdf

Yes, Basman is a very slippery character - not an uncommon trait in the upper echelons of chess organisation (see Eyes passim). I can't think that he is doing himself any favours at all by putting this sort of propaganda into schools. I have been trying to do the calculations, based on inadequate data, to work out how much he must have made out of this tournament over the past 21 years, but there are too many unknowns. Generally there are in the region of 2000 schools that pay a £40 entry fee. That provides them with perhaps £15's worth of prizes and the necessary stationery to run the event. After that, it's school hire - and he has local organisers who will each hire a school for one weekend in May and take entry fees. There are about 30 such events. There's not much in prize money, and the entry fee is pretty big. Each event will take a few thousand in entry fees. I don't know what the schools will charge - probably the local organisers will have some sort of discounted deal.

HMRC only look back 6 years and they found £300000 in unpaid VAT. That's a very impressive amount for an organisation consisting of just one, or possibly two, full time workers.

It would not surprise me if he pulls £300k out of his back pocket in time to keep the tourney running this school year. Entry forms are sent out in the second half of this term, and the first stage of the event is played between Christmas and Easter.

[citoyen]

Going back to the important matter of Jaffa Cakes, did you know that after McVitie's won the Jaffa Cakes case, P&G went to court to have Pringles reclassified as cakes. The justification was that rather than being made of slices of whole potato, they are made from a dough that contains only 42% potato. They won the argument initially, so Pringles were for a brief while classified as cakes for tax reasons, but HMRC soon had the decision overturned on appeal.

[Owthathurt]

Chess is a game and Jaffa Cakes are cake.

That's all well and good but is a Rook a biscuit or a cake.................?   

[Wowbagger]

It seems that Tim Farron has come out in support of Mike Basman.

http://www.ukchesschallenge.com/docs/TimFarroncomesonBoard.pdf

In TF's letter, it says that it was a change in the law last January that caused the UK Chess Challenge to suddenly owe £300000. I'm not certain that that is entirely accurate, but it puts a different complexion on the issue.

[LEE]

If chess is not a sport then how come Wowbagger wears full Chess Kit to every match?



Here we can see Wowbagger sliding diagonally into the venue.

[Peter]

Mitre known you'd come up with something like that, Lee.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The Skardy youth asked me, "Do you like chess?"

Feeling vaguely surprised that the conversation should have taken such an elevated turn, I replied regretfully, "I'm afraid not; it's too highbrow for me."

"You think it is bad habit?" pursued the youth.

"Of course not!" I said. "I'm told it's very good for the brain – it's just that I've never been able to cope with it myself."

"But here you can try!" exclaimed the youth. Then he leant across the stove and said something in Balti to the policeman, who at once produced what looked like a pellet of cow dung. Holding this up between thumb and forefinger and addressing me for the first time, the Head Constable said, "I give you, you give me 50 rupees."

I took the pellet to examine it, and Rachel and I felt it and smelt it; it was odourless. "What is it?" I asked.

"Chess," replied the youth. "My bust friend sell this much for Rs.500 in London, but here it is cheap."

I handed his property back to the Head Constable and caused a gale of incredulous laughter by informing the company that in my country, people are gaoled for selling 'chess'. Then, having failed to do business, the policeman sombrely rolled a joint which he shared impartially with his friends.

Dervla Murphy, Where the Indus is Young