Totally off topic thread - pet dogs.

[TPMB12]

I'm curious. Who owns a dog on here?

Second question. What's a good dog for a family with a young child of about 4 years? Active family but the little lad can only walk 3 miles in one go with breaks so I'll have to take it on extra walks in the evening. IF we get one.

What's your view? Especially value opinions from people with dog experience, hence question one.

BTW I like large breeds like big lurchers and especially Irish Wolfhound. BTW they're too big for our situation being in a 3 bed house with back yard. Labrador has been recommended but I'm thinking border terrier. A smaller dog could fit in with a cycle tour with a doggy trailer. Knew a guy who took his border terrier rock climbing.  The terrier would stick it's head and front paws out of the rucksack to look around but when bored of that would just fall asleep on the guy's butties. Very funny watching him lay back to see the dog looking straight down at you from his sack. The dog was fearless about heights!

[PaulF]

We've  got a Cockapoo so on the basis of recommend what you've got that would be my suggestion.

Hreat company, loves people, doesn't need too much exercise but enjoys a long walk and very friendly

[Basil]

Well, we have a border.  But I have never owned any other dog, so can't really compare it.
Based on a sample of one bitch: 
Very gentle
Not barky
Good long distance car traveller
Will "switch off" when we do.
A bit skitty when meeting other terriers (any type) in the park.
Destroyed everything in the house until she was about 6 months old.
Can be stubborn when she decides to be.
Can be prone to skin problems.
No problems with bicycles, horses or sheep (In fact, totally disinterested.  But that may be more to do with the way we brought her up in a very rural location)
Will run with the bike.  Although I familiarised her very early in her life.  (The breed were developed to run with the hunt.  (Digger out)
Can develop weight problems unless you are careful.  They just don't have an Off Switch.

As I say, I have only owned one dog in my life.  For all I know, most of the above may be common to all dogs.
 

[Auntie Helen]

Another vote for a Cockapoo - they are great!

I had a Labrador and a Weimaraner before. Beautiful dogs but the size means much more work.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

A friend of mine who has a youngish child has a lurcher and a greyhound, and is very happy with them.

[Ruthie]

Staffies are smashing dogs, ideal for families.  Lovely things.

[JBB]

If you've got kids something with floppy ears! see https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/mans-new-best-friend-a-forgotten-russian-experiment-in-fox-domestication/ for the reasons.

We're on our third german shorthaired pointer; great family dog but needs a lot of exercise and can suffer from separation anxiety. Do remember that as long as you have a place to let your dog off the lead you will not need to walk as far as it can run! If you want a smaller dog our vet recommends a Tibetan terrier (not a terrier in the European sense).
Otherwise we have a friend with border terriers and they are the best of the european terriers as regards temperament. i.e not as snappy and/or yappy.

Happy to answer any practical queries   
Julia

[JBB]

Staffies are smashing dogs, ideal for families.  Lovely things.

Great with people; sadly not always as great with other dogs.

[TPMB12]

I was sat in the front of old dungeon ghyll pub in the Langdales once. Next to us was a great Dane female tied to the picnic table leg. There were 3 such tables side by side and we were separated by an empty table. There were many different breeds of dog around the beer garden. Suddenly a Staffie turned up and all kinds of he'll broke out. Every dog got up, their heckles up and they all barked aggressively at the Staffie. Without leads I'm certain they'd have attacked the Staffie.

I only got worried when the great Dane stood up and started to pay attention. It could have dragged us all along behind it. Luckily it just gave one loud but low frequency bark. Then everything went silent and all other dogs went back to lying under their tables. The Staffie was left to carry on. Seriously that great Dane shut the squabble down with just one bark. Now that's impressive!

Don't like Staffies purely because of the reputation of having very strong bite. I've heard it say they have such a strong bite and high pain threshold that it takes a lot to open their bite up once locked that worries me a lot because all dogs can be dangerous. On the other hand a lot of gun dogs have what they call soft bites or jaws.

Cockerpoo sounds good except I do not like poodles at all. I just can't look at them without thinking eurgh! Bedlington terriers are the same, schnauzers and Airdales too.

Someone I know with a lot of dog experience reckons that if you get a puppy the dog will be what you make it. Kind of the owner can make the best or worst of a dog's breed characteristics.

What about leaving a dog alone for some time? If you make your rear yard secure and have access indoors too dogs can often be perfectly happy to be left alone. Well if they have a doggy companion. You can even buy dog runs too. What's your view on.that? Kind of a kennel.

We're not going to get a dog unless we're confident it fits into our lifestyle in a way that's good for the dog. I know people with at least 2 dogs who just leave their dogs all day long in their kennels. One person's dogs actually ignore her when she gets home, the dogs just play with each other and the kennel is where they actually like to be even if their owner opens the door.

Would you get 2 dogs if leaving for a few hours? What about 8 hours? Personally I think that's too long. My experienced dog owner friends don't think so if you get two at the same time and have to an indoor/outdoor run or space. Near us there's a few houses like ours with 2 or more dogs in their yard. They have access to the house through a dog flap or they have an outdoors kennel like a rabbit hutch for dogs. Their owners are at work all day long I believe. Well I've never seen them at home any time between 9 to 5 at least.

[TPMB12]

I actually like jrt dogs. IIRC there's long and short legged breeding populations. I'd prefer the long legged ones. That is totally different to the separate breed known as Parson Russell terrier. That's like a long legged jrt bred to go down fox holes but still run all day long with the hounds. I like that. The border terrier was bred for the same use. They're longer in the leg than Norfolk or Norwich terrier AFAIK. 

[Wowbagger]

We have a red setter who is as soft and gentle a dog as you could wish for. He is very tolerant of children. Our grandson is wary of him because he is so big.

The drawbacks are mostly to do with huge drifts of fur that appear everywhere in the house, and he is a terrible slobberer. Flatulence can be a problem.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Someone I know with a lot of dog experience reckons that if you get a puppy the dog will be what you make it. Kind of the owner can make the best or worst of a dog's breed characteristics.

I pretty much agree with this.

Of the terriers, I think a great deal of border terriers. They are hardy, fit, good natured dogs, not as yappy and aggressive as jrt and I think in my limited experience (my inlaws had one) better with small children.

That said, a small or medium dog from a dog rescue centre can be a good dog. Look for something that responds to you, quite often with these places you can go and walk a dog over a period of weeks and get to know them. It isn't essential to get a 'breed'.

[PaulF]

<snip>

Cockerpoo sounds good except I do not like poodles at all. I just can't look at them without thinking eurgh! Bedlington terriers are the same, schnauzers and Airdales too.
<snip>

Give them a try before you make a decision. They have as many of the characteristics of a spaniel as they do of a poodle. I thought the same way before I met some poodles when we were finding a breeder and realised that they're also great dogs, it's just the way that some owners choose to have them clipped. They can also have quite a "normal" cut

[TPMB12]

Poodles, clipped or not, are one of the few dogs I could never like. I know the standard poodle is among the most intelligent, family friendly dogs you can get. It's a look thing, I'm ashamed to say I'm totally prejudiced on superficial reasons. Even my dislike the for tiny toy breeds has some practical basis but not with poodles or poodle crosses. Now even if the cockapoo had only cocker Spaniel characteristics I'd be OK but for the price I would probably go for the full spaniel breed not the cross.

My experience of jrt dogs has only been positive. Admittedly a small sample. I grew up visiting relatives with one three years older than me it was. Lovely temperament. Only barked in a couple of spots in the garden where it had chased off a fox. Never barked much at all. It made a half hearted effort to bite me once that I can recall. That was my fault. I wanted to play with him but he was sleeping in a warm, sunny patch in the dining room. I poked him 3 times then on the 4th poke he lifted his head and snapped in my direction before going back to sleep. He was nowhere near my fingers.

It was the most loyal dog that loved being around us. It would be sat at the foot of the stairs (wasn't allowed upstairs) from about 3am each morning waiting for us. When it heard us moving it would creep up the stairs to meet us, until my gran caught him and scolded him.

He would know we were on our way down (5 hour drive) and would sit all day by the front door. It just knew. Then for 2 or more weeks after we left it used to cry by the front door.

Then another jrt was my grans brothers rescue dog I met it once shortly after they got it. It couldn't judge distance so kept walking into door frames. It was from an rspca prosecution case that involved jail time it was so serious.

That dog was so unsteady but take it on a walk it was straight into a very large bramble patch chasing rats through the tunnels in it. It didn't use sight there so it wasn't disabled. It got quite a few and a good example of instincts that terriers have.

I'd have no issues taking on a jet with kids. Afterall a dog is often what the owners make of it.

One thing, we are currently taking every opportunity to train our 3 year old about animals especially dogs and cats. With dog owner's permission we are trying to teach him how to.be around dogs. Initially it's about how he shouldn't approach.strange dogs but also creating a positivity about dogs. My partner loves cats so there's been a dog vs cat thing going on. We've stopped that because it was making him wary around dogs. Before that he wasn't bothered. Anyway we feel animal awareness is important, almost as important as swimming perhaps.

To my mind border terriers suit us well. Just concerned that they are potentially intelligent enough to train well but that intelligence could equate to damage in the house through boredom. It's the reason we could never consider border collie dogs. Too intelligent!

Physically I think the border terrier could be a trained to a level that it could walk for long distances without tiring. It has the physical attributes but that of course would depend on us giving it the active life that enables it. My relatives jrt was not able to walk great distances because they never took him on long walks. If they had he would have had boundless energy. Other terriers were similar. Their owners were puffing and panting up the hills so they were too.

[T42]

Far from expert but here's my virtual great-nephew Jules mixing in with our chocolate labs:

[TPMB12]

My old neighbours when I was a teenager had red setters. I used to see them as they set off on a walk. All bouncy and excitable. Not good for a 3 year old IMHO. Very few large dogs are I reckon. I've heard either Bernese mountain dogs or Newfoundland dogs are possibly the few large dogs good with young kids around. I've heard Newfies are known as nature's nannies due to their family friendly nature. Smaller houses aren't good for big lumps like me let alone big dogs as well.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

Flatulence can be a problem.

You can blame it on the dog though.

[TPMB12]

Flatulence can be a problem.

You can blame it on the dog though.

But in our house it's usually me. I always get the blame. Why do you think I want a dog? The vain hope they'll believe it wasn't me!

Seriously dogs can be.bad. Don't feed them.too many vegetables before a long car journey.

Going to hold off on the dog idea for awhile. I'm just not sure and if there's a doubt I won't risk a bad decision. It would be the dog that suffers.

I guess I'm just too cautious about homing a dog. I've volunteered at a rescue before and have always been brought up being told you can't leave a dog alone for more than a few hours. It's cruel I was always told. Seeing the life of dogs in the rescue, lifers some of them,  it's not right for a nation of animal lovers. There's too many cases of dogs and cats in centres in a very stressed condition.

[Mr Larrington]

This is Rocky:



He's a rescued Something Hairy and madder than a monkey in a bucket of custard and one year my chums Brad and Deb may find their RV lacking a certain something on their way home from Batlle Mountain.

[TPMB12]

Do you know what, experiences when young really do play in your subconscious and come out as irrationality.

You fell into a pond when very young, you're afraid of water. Bitten by a dog, you're afraid of dogs. Just two examples.

With me I lived on a street with few dogs, but one was a known problem dog. If the owners left the metal driveway gates open this dog would come out. If kept shut the dog wouldn't even though it could still get out easily. It's a kind of psychological barrier for the dog I suppose.

Anyway if you were cycling past the open gate that dog would chase, biting at your leg. If wearing trousers you're ok but shorts, well you better be quick. That dog was the same light brown underneath and darker on top like Rocky. I have never felt comfortable around dogs that colour since.  Indeed I actually don't like them. Irrational but you're a product of your experiences I suppose. Dogs do instill a primal feeling. Whether fear, companionship or whatever there will be deep feelings within most people regarding dogs. My theory at least.

BTW logic separates memories of fear about particular dog types. Logic part of me knows that dog was not doing anything wrong. I do think humans have a big affect on their dogs. Whether through ignorance or conscious thought, it is likely to be a human owner's fault if a dog becomes dangerous and aggressive.

[hatler]

Mrs hatler's cousin had a soft coated wheaten terrier. Unbelievably well behaved. Never ever pulled on the lead, even when cycling (with lead in a loose grip). Cool around kids. Happy to be left all day (though he didn't make a habit of that). Doesn't moult. Were we ever to get a dog (and we won't), it would be one of these.

[peliroja]

I'm not a dog expert but have picked up an awful lot since rescuing my first dog in 2013.

We have a gorgeous rescue collie cross, Tilley (who even has her own website, see http://woofy.woollypigs.com/2016/09/three-is-the-magic-number/). We wouldn't be without her. She was abandoned before she was six months old on a busy road in Leitrim, Ireland, with her sibling. They were thankfully rescued, ended up at Darlington Dogs Trust and we were lucky enough to be "chosen" by her. (We'd gone for a little look, and ended up with a hyper, skinny, shit-covered ball of fur... who blossomed into a completely wonderful friend.)

She's affectionate, very intelligent and a proper character. She's chilling out more and more as she gets older. But she is a proper diva at times and is very high-energy. As you've mentioned, I'm not sure a border collie would be right for you, given your circumstances.

I strongly recommend, as mrcharly suggested, checking out your local rescue centres. Dogs Trust figures for 2014-15 showed that one unwanted dog was put to sleep every two hours  by council pounds in the UK, and over 100,000 were abandoned that year. For that reason, and having fostered unwanted dogs and found them new homes, we would never contemplate buying a puppy from a breeder. YMMV.

You're right that a dog is whatever you put into it. If you're concerned about getting a "damaged" dog from a rescue, don't be. They have plenty of puppies and young dogs who would provide you with a blank canvas to work with. Many provide training (positive reinforcement is the type to go for) as part of the package and rescue back-up in case you need advice or have problems.

I would keep an open mind about suitable breeds. Rescue centre staff will get to know their dogs very well, and you might find that a Heinz 57 is your perfect mutt. Crossbreeds are cheaper to insure and tend to be healthier and live longer than pedigrees, too. Breeds that are traditionally good with kids are lurchers/greyhounds (they are actually very lazy, despite their speed, and like nothing better than a comfy sofa), bull terriers as Ruthie suggested (known as "nanny dogs") and labradors.

But, the most gentle and chilled out dogs I've ever met have been crossbreeds (with the exception of Wowbagger's Morphy who is a pedigree Red Setter). We fostered a gentle giant, Quinn, who had been tied to railings in a back street in Bradford and dumped. He was the most affectionate, gentle creature despite his dreadful treatment. He was probably collie cross red fox labrador. Ruby, a rescue puppy from the snowy streets of Romania, was equally chilled out, loved to sleep, and became a perfect family pet. He was a Belgian Shepherd Cross. It really depends on the individual dog, and - of course - what you are prepared to put into the relationship with your four-legged friend.

As well as the Dogs Trust I'd really recommend Jerry Green Dog Rescue, Babworth Animal Rescue Kennels (BARK - they have loads of gorgeous little crossbreeds), and Many Tears in Wales.

When it comes to leaving dogs alone, the rule of thumb recommended by positive reinforcement trainers is no more than 4 hours at a time, which is built up gradually to avoid causing separation anxiety. Many dogs are left for longer than this with no problems, but the majority are just really miserable. They are sociable creatures and can really, really miss their people. Tilley started off with real separation anxiety - she'd whine and cry if we left her alone - so we had to follow a careful training plan, getting her used to her crate and gradually building up her time alone. Three years on, we can now leave her for just over four hours, loose in the house. She's absolutely fine, and actually seeks out her open crate and prefers to sleep in there while we're out. Puppies shouldn't be left for too long at first. (A former schoolmate of mine has just bought a tiny beagle puppy for £800 and expects to leave it in its crate for 8 hours solid while she's at work. You can imagine how I feel about that.  )

Something you could do in the meantime to double check whether having a dog is for you is volunteer with the Cinnamon Trust. It's a charity which finds volunteer dog walkers/fosterers for the pets of elderly and/or terminally ill people.

Finally, take a look at these beauties just to give you an idea of what is out there. All abandoned and in need of a home. Please adopt, don't shop. 

http://www.manytearsrescue.org/display_mtar_dog.php?id=17339

http://www.jerrygreendogs.org.uk/RehomeADog/ShowDog/Blidworth/2016-04-18/Little%20Lucy

http://www.jerrygreendogs.org.uk/RehomeADog/ShowDog/Broughton/2016-09-21/Pip

https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/rehoming/dogs/dog/filters/~~~0~~n~/1158147/ebony

http://www.barkonline.co.uk/adopt-a-dog%20/small-dogs/dingo

[woollypigs]

+1 Big time!

I have had five dogs, where Tllley is my 6th. Family/friend have had dogs of all kinds, always dogs around when growing up - Uncle is a German Shepard handler and train police dogs etc etc. I have had breed dogs, with all the family tree paper work etc. But I'm not going back to that again, after having rescued Tilley.

As Peli said the dog will become what you put into it. I can remember when we first got Tilley she was all over there place, now she sleeps on the sofa for hours on end. Peli was worried that we couldn't handle this giddy thing, which she was. I think, I now got proof to what I said back then, give her time to learn us and she will settle. If you are high strung the dog will be too and if you are chilled it will be too. Remember they too have their childhood period and you have too live through the teens years too, HA! But be firm and stick to your guns/rules and they will be brilliant companions for years to come.

Put your time into it, build everything you do up - e.g don't throw the dog into the "deep in" and drive from the UK to Timbuktu, small journeys, often, with treats. Or like us change the car and now she is good and goes to sleep on our laps, instead of screaming her head off and pacing about. That goes for everything you want to teach it, walkies, meeting others, driving, being on its own etc etc.

And best of all - we have fostered six dogs - which proved the saying "rescue dogs really show you that they are thankful for you giving then a sofa to kip on". The dog I have had the longest - 14 years - did show love and affection toward me, the others too. But nowhere near the affection I get from Tilley or got from the foster dogs when they figured out that I was a good'un.

Oh, remember ground rules will broken - you know them, where you said - no dog on the sofa, no dog up stairs etc etc. 

[mrcharly-YHT]

Breeds I wouldn't touch with a barge pole; Beagle (very very strong and wilful, also food hogs, will do anything to overeat) and Rhodesian Ridgebacks (I've met two who were nice dogs and 8 who were killers).

The rest are what you make them, as Peli said. Heck, I've even trained cats to behave, as in they understand they can't go in certain rooms, aren't allowed on tables, on kitchen surfaces and understand 'get down'.

[pcolbeck]

Don't get a border collie. They are absolutely brilliant dogs if you have the time and inclination to provide them with the stimulus they need. They can get bored if not given enough to do and then they get a bit loopy.

Labradors are pretty bullet proof and usually great with kids. Get one from a working line rather than a show line if you want one thats not too big and heavy set. They usually put up with kids messing around with them really well,

We have a labradoodle and she's brilliant.  Mind you she isn't curly haired (looks more like a lab/retriever) and quite small for her type. In general lab/poodle is a good cross but be wary as due to their popularity there are a lot of unscrupulous breeders. Mrs Pcolbeck did loads of research before buying me Tilly.

Most dogs are going to bouncy for the first year and gradually calm down after that. Thats just the way puppies are but you can train them quite quickly not to jump up at people so long as your are consistent and kind.