Very good suggestion Matt.
Given TeethGrinder might turn up at my gaff with dodgy rubber I realise I haven't the foggiest idea how to fix one of those tubeless things.
If you need to (re) seat the bead for any reason you need to blast air in fairly fast. Some say you need an air compressor but you can achieve it by taking the valve core out, then giving a few blasts with a track pump. You will know when the bead seats. When you take it off all the air will escape rapidly, but the bead will be seated by then and should stay so.
If you need to (re) seat the bead for any reason you need to blast air in fairly fast. Some say you need an air compressorI've always assumed, as a non-user, that a CO2 cylinder would be best for a quick blast.
That works as well, but it uses it up though and you'd have to buy another one.If you need to (re) seat the bead for any reason you need to blast air in fairly fast. Some say you need an air compressorI've always assumed, as a non-user, that a CO2 cylinder would be best for a quick blast.
Thanks.Very good suggestion Matt.
Given TeethGrinder might turn up at my gaff with dodgy rubber I realise I haven't the foggiest idea how to fix one of those tubeless things.
Temporary fix by putting a tube in if the sealant won't.
Seems like a lot of faff to me.especially if you still need to carry a spare tube on the road.
They are obviously good or Steve wouldnt be using them.
Thanks.Very good suggestion Matt.
Given TeethGrinder might turn up at my gaff with dodgy rubber I realise I haven't the foggiest idea how to fix one of those tubeless things.
Temporary fix by putting a tube in if the sealant won't.
Will an ordinary 700x25 (or 23) Presta be a good fit?
Could I do this with just my standard tyre levers, pump, hands and brain, treating it like a clincher?
Thanks.Very good suggestion Matt.
Given TeethGrinder might turn up at my gaff with dodgy rubber I realise I haven't the foggiest idea how to fix one of those tubeless things.
Temporary fix by putting a tube in if the sealant won't.
Will an ordinary 700x25 (or 23) Presta be a good fit?
Could I do this with just my standard tyre levers, pump, hands and brain, treating it like a clincher?
[Rest of replies: TL; DR; for this context !]
What should this Dummy do if Steve arrived with damaged/split outer, not likely to last (say) another 100 miles?
My findings on repair/replacements:The Stan's installation guide calls for two layers of tape on their road rims by default...
- One thing I found is the first time I came to replace my tubeless tyre after the new wheel build (and I guess Steve's wheels are new builds too) is that it was way harder to seat the tyre bead than when the wheel was first built. Air kept escaping around the tyre. Even using a compressor or CO2 didn't help. In the end, an additional layer of stan's yellow tape was needed right around the rim: the original single layer worked fine for the first install, but then deformed enough at the spoke holes that it was letting too much air escape "around" the tyre bead an never getting a good seal. Once the second layer was added, it just popped right on with a basic pump.
...
I've also had one colleague mention Schwalbe One (as Steve is using) work great to a point but then reliability went off a steep cliff. If Steve is reporting multiple flats in a day, a complete tyre replacement maybe due. If he / you don't have tubeless on hand, any good quality clincher, 23 or 25 or whatever he prefers, should work fine on the Stans rims (maybe with a tiny bit of swearing to installed) to get back home.
ATEOTD Schwalbe's motivation is presumably to get more of us buying these things, and I'm prepared to be "sold" if there is evidence to justify the greater up-front cost.
ATEOTD Schwalbe's motivation is presumably to get more of us buying these things, and I'm prepared to be "sold" if there is evidence to justify the greater up-front cost.
Depending on what you're comparing them too, they can be had for around €33 each from German sellers right now.
The Stan's installation guide calls for two layers of tape on their road rims by default...
The hutchinson ones are nearly £50 each though (from what bikey-mikey told me) ?
This seems to be because it is trickier to get the tyre to sit in the valley. It is a job that needs time and patience.
The rubber bungs work, mind only had to use once snce 2006.Might be worth checking Steve has some? Much quicker than a tyre off and on. 1 use in 8 years that is impressive
A question for those who "converted" standard rims to tubeless. What, if anything did you use to seal the valve to the rim tape with? I've just taped up a Mavic Askium One, 2 layers of packing tape over the original Mavic vinyl tape. I made a small cross cut through the tape to install the valve, and used CO2 to get the bead seated - a track pump wouldn't do the initial expansion quick enough. Seated the bead, deflated the tyre, added sealant, re inflated (with track pump) only to have a leak around the valve stem as evidenced by bubbles from the soapy water Id used to aid installation and bead seating. I've used pliers to tighten the valve stem nut, added extra sealant and "bounced" the tyre to splash it about around the valve area, and seem to have slowed the loss of air (it dropped from 6 to 2 bar overnight before I added extra sealant this morning). It may just be a case of letting the valve seat bed in to the tape until all flexibility has gone, but something to give an initial seal would help - and I need to be able to remove the valve roadside to use a spare tube in emergencies, so an overnight valve stem nut isn't desirable - I was thinking maybe Vaseline, or a non setting mastic?This happened to me with tubeless rims. I did much as you. It is important not t pull the valve too hard they can pull through apparently. It can be the seating of the valve onto the rim tape but it can be a leak through the tape elsewhere (apparently). what tape were you using? What pressure are you pumping to?
A question for those who "converted" standard rims to tubeless. What, if anything did you use to seal the valve to the rim tape with? I've just taped up a Mavic Askium One, 2 layers of packing tape over the original Mavic vinyl tape. I made a small cross cut through the tape to install the valve, and used CO2 to get the bead seated - a track pump wouldn't do the initial expansion quick enough. Seated the bead, deflated the tyre, added sealant, re inflated (with track pump) only to have a leak around the valve stem as evidenced by bubbles from the soapy water Id used to aid installation and bead seating. I've used pliers to tighten the valve stem nut, added extra sealant and "bounced" the tyre to splash it about around the valve area, and seem to have slowed the loss of air (it dropped from 6 to 2 bar overnight before I added extra sealant this morning). It may just be a case of letting the valve seat bed in to the tape until all flexibility has gone, but something to give an initial seal would help - and I need to be able to remove the valve roadside to use a spare tube in emergencies, so an overnight valve stem nut isn't desirable - I was thinking maybe Vaseline, or a non setting mastic?
A question for those who "converted" standard rims to tubeless. What, if anything did you use to seal the valve to the rim tape with? I've just taped up a Mavic Askium One, 2 layers of packing tape over the original Mavic vinyl tape. I made a small cross cut through the tape to install the valve, and used CO2 to get the bead seated - a track pump wouldn't do the initial expansion quick enough. Seated the bead, deflated the tyre, added sealant, re inflated (with track pump) only to have a leak around the valve stem as evidenced by bubbles from the soapy water Id used to aid installation and bead seating. I've used pliers to tighten the valve stem nut, added extra sealant and "bounced" the tyre to splash it about around the valve area, and seem to have slowed the loss of air (it dropped from 6 to 2 bar overnight before I added extra sealant this morning). It may just be a case of letting the valve seat bed in to the tape until all flexibility has gone, but something to give an initial seal would help - and I need to be able to remove the valve roadside to use a spare tube in emergencies, so an overnight valve stem nut isn't desirable - I was thinking maybe Vaseline, or a non setting mastic?
I'm confused I 'm guessing that tubeless now is something completely different from the 'Tubs' I had to cement onto my rims 30 years ago?
I'm confused I 'm guessing that tubeless now is something completely different from the 'Tubs' I had to cement onto my rims 30 years ago?
Yes, tubeless essentially does away with an inner tube. The Stan's rim strip, Gorilla Tape etc. are used to seal the spoke holes to prevent air loss. I don't know how it is for road set ups but on a MTB I use a standard tyre and a latex solution/suspension in the tyre that initially seals any holes in the tyre (some sidewalls can be quite porous) and then serves to plug any holes caused by thorns etc..
There are advantages. Yesterday my rear tubeless flatted. I refilled with CO2, spun the wheel a few times and continued on my way. About 3 minutes in total
I've been using Hutchinson Intensive 25s for over three years now. Mounted on Stans No Tubes ALPHA 340 rims - these rims, with your choice of hubs n spokes, make for some seriously light wheels.
....
Yes I pay £50 per tyre, but how many inner tubes would you buy / use over 85,000 kms ?? (At what cost?)
...
I've been using Hutchinson Intensive 25s for over three years now. Mounted on Stans No Tubes ALPHA 340 rims - these rims, with your choice of hubs n spokes, make for some seriously light wheels.How many miles/km do you think you get out of a rear tyre?
Most of you know my mileages, but in case you don't I did 33,300 kilometres nominal in Audax events last season, but including over-distances on calendar events, and even a few non Audax journeys, you could call it 35,000 kms. Previous two years each around 25,000 kms. So that's over 85,000 kms on tubeless.
I've been using Hutchinson Intensive 25s for over three years now. Mounted on Stans No Tubes ALPHA 340 rims - these rims, with your choice of hubs n spokes, make for some seriously light wheels.How many miles/km do you think you get out of a rear tyre?
Most of you know my mileages, but in case you don't I did 33,300 kilometres nominal in Audax events last season, but including over-distances on calendar events, and even a few non Audax journeys, you could call it 35,000 kms. Previous two years each around 25,000 kms. So that's over 85,000 kms on tubeless.
Hutchinson Intensive 25s are on XXCycle.fr at 39.90 €
Conti GP4000s II 25s are at 33.90 €
Difference = about 1.5 tubes.
Sounds good.
What pressure do people run tubeless tyres at? I've done some searches and, surprisingly, don't find much on this.
I'm around 62 kgs
Sector 28s...
Have been running 85 psi since inception about 8000 Km's ago..
They hardly lose any pressure, maybe half a dozen strokes of a floor pump after three or four days standing....
Some of the above answers tempt me to try lower though.... But I'm worried that over a protracted event, e.g. from Paris to somewhere west and back, I might lose too much..
How are those lower pressures standing up post ride??
So, um, Schwalbe Ones, or Sector 28s?
Can find both for under €40, which seems reasonable enough, albeit postage bumps it up a little.
I'm around 62 kgs
Sector 28s...
Have been running 85 psi since inception about 8000 Km's ago..
They hardly lose any pressure, maybe half a dozen strokes of a floor pump after three or four days standing....
Some of the above answers tempt me to try lower though.... But I'm worried that over a protracted event, e.g. from Paris to somewhere west and back, I might lose too much..
How are those lower pressures standing up post ride??
I'm worried that over a protracted event, e.g. from Paris to somewhere west and back, I might lose too much..
I'm around 62 kgs
Sector 28s...
Have been running 85 psi since inception about 8000 Km's ago..
They hardly lose any pressure, maybe half a dozen strokes of a floor pump after three or four days standing....
Some of the above answers tempt me to try lower though.... But I'm worried that over a protracted event, e.g. from Paris to somewhere west and back, I might lose too much..
How are those lower pressures standing up post ride??
What do you find the (esp. wet) grip of Hutchinsons like?
Any diff between sector and intensive other than 25/28 - any particular reason to switch?
So, um, Schwalbe Ones, or Sector 28s?
Can find both for under €40, which seems reasonable enough, albeit postage bumps it up a little.
Not sure who's tried both. I've only ridden the Schwalbes, and they're fine and dandy. Others may offer similar views on the Sectors.
So, um, Schwalbe Ones, or Sector 28s?
Can find both for under €40, which seems reasonable enough, albeit postage bumps it up a little.
Not sure who's tried both. I've only ridden the Schwalbes, and they're fine and dandy. Others may offer similar views on the Sectors.
I only went with Schwalbes because I've never had a bad experience with any of their other models (but have no experience of Hutchinson)
OTH i went for Stan's valves (stainless) rahter than Schwalbe (Aluminium) ones.
Right, I've been running my Schwalbe One tubeless for around 6 months now. Is it time to refresh the sealant? And does one just add more through the valve, or should one dismount the tyre and remove the (residue of) the old?
Hutchies were absolute crap in the 80s and 90s. They'll never get another cent from me, regardless of what they are like now. There is a pair of Ones at home waiting to go on a bike.
I suppose that your experiences back up Schwalbe's advice when I asked about tubeless for tandems - 'Just say no'.
Idiot question... is it easy/possible to convert a "normal" rim to run tubeless (CXP33 and OpenPro if that matters)?? I was thinking you could with some special tape, a valve and a tubeless wheel but my LBS said that it wasn't possible. It is quite likely that they don't know they are talking about...
From memory, Schwalbe list maximum weights for the various tyres and widths. Anything above the maximum weight is not recommended/ covered, regardless for being a solo or tandem.
Per tyre I think but weight distribution is rear biased with about 60-65% on the rear of a solo, depending on rider position.
Now I'm intrigued to see how Things+tandem weight distributions plays out. We have 2 sets of bathroom scales...
Per tyre I think but weight distribution is rear biased with about 60-65% on the rear of a solo, depending on rider position.
Stan's (pretty sure - I didn't put it in myself).
I got mine refitted and inflated with no problems and it is staying at 75psi. Seems fixed ok. May get a new tyre for PBP though just to be on the safe side.
I'm happier with a patch on (the inside of) a tubeless tyre as the natural inclination of the air pressure is to hold it on, unlike patching (the outside of) a tube where the natural inclination of the air pressure is to try to blow it off.
We mostly use Orange Seal. When it's worked (including on tubeless and tubular) it worked great.
What sort of patches do you put inside? I've never really tried this. You rough up the inner surface and glue it like normal?
.............. Hutchy Fusion 3s in 25mm are big tyres - easily 28mm across and very tall.That's very useful information as I'm considering the option of tubeless on my Paccenti rimmed wheels that Mike Conway made (and they are superb wheels!). But, I doubt 28mm will fit the bikes I wish to use them on. I currently use 25mm Conti 4 Seasons which are not the biggest profile tyres, but matched with 23mm rim widths give a comfortable ride for me.
[Anyone know a pub where they will serve you "A pint of Stan's Sealant" ??]
.............. Hutchy Fusion 3s in 25mm are big tyres - easily 28mm across and very tall.That's very useful information as I'm considering the option of tubeless on my Paccenti rimmed wheels that Mike Conway made (and they are superb wheels!). But, I doubt 28mm will fit the bikes I wish to use them on. I currently use 25mm Conti 4 Seasons which are not the biggest profile tyres, but matched with 23mm rim widths give a comfortable ride for me.
I have purchased a 28mm Conti 4 Seasons to experiment with sizes. Knowing the 25mm Fusion comes up on the large size is good information
I am also getting much better mileage on them...
I am also getting much better mileage on them...
Out of interest, how long are yours lasting? My Sector 28s are still going strong at over 8,000km, which seems rather impressive (that's on varyingly rough or silky smooth, but mostly rough, Yorkshire Dales roads).
Anyone know of a source of 25mm Schwalbe One Tubeless?
My rear tyre has worn through to the canvas - & I've currently had to resort to a non tubeless Durano.
I've done a trawl of the German websites and the usual Google shopping search,but no luck.
I'm guessing the dearth of these tyres at the moment is because Schwalbe are switching over to the new pro version?
Edit: I've just interrogated veloviewer and I'm a bit disappointed with the milage (kilometreage?) I've got from this tyre - only 3500 km. - that's only 10 rides for Steve! I'm still prepared to give them another go though as in all other respects the tyres have been excellent
Anyone else got any stats on how long their tyres have lasted?
Having been putting off (and off, and off ...) actually switching over, can anyone tell me how large the 28mm Schwalbe Ones come up? Currently trying to work out whether they'll fit in place of Krylion 25s with reasonable clearance.
Nigel the owner agreed and showed me an easy way to test. First you unscrew the valve core, with the valve situated a 3 o'clock, so any fluid will have drained away and not spurt all over the place. Then you put the valve at the bottom. Then you get a tiny Allen key and dip it to the inside bottom of the tyre, withdraw it, and read off the level of the fluid.
I strongly suggest you check your sealant regularly.
A short tale to illustrate a maintenance issue...
Two days ago I felt my rear tyre begin to get 'squirrelly', meaning pressure reduced. I stopped and it was quite a bit down, and I found a tiny hole in the sidewall, bubbling but not sealing. I put my finger on it and gave it ten seconds, and it was sealed. I pumped tyre up to nearly the pressure I usually use, and finished the ride. It cost me four minutes....
Having lent my bottle of sealant to my local bike shop, I took the bike there the next day, with my "putting extra fluid in" syringe, and I showed them the tiny hole (now sealed solid) and suggested that the tyre was probably just about empty of sealant fluid, which would account for the delayed seal and loss of significant pressure.
Nigel the owner agreed and showed me an easy way to test. First you unscrew the valve core, with the valve situated a 3 o'clock, so any fluid will have drained away and not spurt all over the place. Then you put the valve at the bottom. Then you get a tiny Allen key and dip it to the inside bottom of the tyre, withdraw it, and read off the level of the fluid.
My tyre had none.....
We reposed it, and you then have to reinflate / reseat the tyre...
I did a 200 today with no issues.
The moral of the story is that I was lucky, cos if there had not been the last dregs of fluid in the tyre, it would not have sealed, and I would have had to put in a tube, which would have taken much longer.
The tyre had done maybe three months and 7,000 kms and the fluid was just about gone...
I strongly suggest you check your sealant regularly.
Having been putting off (and off, and off ...) actually switching over, can anyone tell me how large the 28mm Schwalbe Ones come up? Currently trying to work out whether they'll fit in place of Krylion 25s with reasonable clearance.
I recently had a very significant visitation on mine
I recently had a very significant visitation on mine
So did I, yesterday - but mine didn't seal :( Mind you there was an 8mm sabre shaped piece of metal swarf right through the carcass! Luckily I was <200m from starting out. In this instance I just intubated the tyre (I'm on hols at a friends place in France) and I'll sort it properly when I get home.
Also whenever you pump up the tyre there is movement of high pressure air in and out of the pump, and that would also entail movement both ways through the valve stem, whilst the pump is connected..
When you disconnect the pump there is always a 'pssssssst' as the higher pressure air inside the pump escapes..
And inevitably it will contain some volatilised sealant...
Any physicists care to confirm my conjecture?? Please ?
Also whenever you pump up the tyre there is movement of high pressure air in and out of the pump, and that would also entail movement both ways through the valve stem, whilst the pump is connected..
When you disconnect the pump there is always a 'pssssssst' as the higher pressure air inside the pump escapes..
And inevitably it will contain some volatilised sealant...
Any physicists care to confirm my conjecture?? Please ?
Connect the Trackpump head to the presta and there is a clear passage of pressure to the gauge on the pump. Air from inside the tyre rushes to pressurise the pump's connection hose and gauge. This may allow sealant to get into the pump's connection hose. Then there is a valve between the gauge and the outlet of the pump cylinder.
Also whenever you pump up the tyre there is movement of high pressure air in and out of the pump, and that would also entail movement both ways through the valve stem, whilst the pump is connected..
When you disconnect the pump there is always a 'pssssssst' as the higher pressure air inside the pump escapes..
And inevitably it will contain some volatilised sealant...
Any physicists care to confirm my conjecture?? Please ?
Connect the Trackpump head to the presta and there is a clear passage of pressure to the gauge on the pump. Air from inside the tyre rushes to pressurise the pump's connection hose and gauge. This may allow sealant to get into the pump's connection hose. Then there is a valve between the gauge and the outlet of the pump cylinder.
Your pump works very differently to mine, and indeed to any I have ever used.
With mine, I connect the pump head to the valve, and there is no movement of air in either direction because the valve remains closed. When I pump, the pressure rises rapidly in the gauge, hose and head rises rapidly, until it exceeds the pressure inside the tyre/tube sufficiently to press open the valve. Then, air from the pump rushes into the tyre, and when the pressure equalises, the valve closes. Pump again, and restart the cycle, with air moving from pump to tyre.
Connect the Trackpump head to the presta and there is a clear passage of pressure to the gauge on the pump. Air from inside the tyre rushes to pressurise the pump's connection hose and gauge. This may allow sealant to get into the pump's connection hose. Then there is a valve between the gauge and the outlet of the pump cylinder.
My opinion is that sealant will eventaually get to the gauge. Might take a long time. Dunno if the gauge can be internally cleaned.
On disconecting the pump head from the presta, the 'trapped volume' in the gauge, connector hose and pump head releases with a quick 'pssst'.
unless you connect the pump with the valve at the bottom which you wouldn't,
I've got a pump where either the pressure rises in the tube and opens the tyre valve, or the chuck holds the tyre valve open and pressurises the tube/gauge to the tyre's pressure from the outset - depending on how firmly you attach the head.
I think this is complete bollocks,
unless you connect the pump with the valve at the bottom which you wouldn't,
But what if you are in Australia, eh? What then?unless you connect the pump with the valve at the bottom which you wouldn't,
And even if you did the valve is at the top of the bottom, and the sealant will have pooled to the bottom of the bottom.
unless you connect the pump with the valve at the bottom which you wouldn't,
And even if you did the valve is at the top of the bottom, and the sealant will have pooled to the bottom of the bottom.
I recently had a very significant visitation on mine
So did I, yesterday - but mine didn't seal :( Mind you there was an 8mm sabre shaped piece of metal swarf right through the carcass! Luckily I was <200m from starting out. In this instance I just intubated the tyre (I'm on hols at a friends place in France) and I'll sort it properly when I get home.
What happens then? Does the tube get cemented to the inside of the tyre with residual fluid?
I was talking to a chap from a company who make the tyre sealant canisters you get with some modern ‘eco’ cars.
He told me the sealant quality is from using carrot fibre. The small microscopic strands clog up the hole and the rubber matrix binds it all together.
I haven’t looked at carrot cake again in the same light.
Or was it parsnips ??
i wonder how much of actual rubber bits remain in the tyre when the liquid evaporates? say if i pour in 30ml of "milk", what's the amount of solid content in it? does it turn into sticky goo?
i've used a conti revo sealant in latex inner tubes - just wondering if i can reuse them with different tyres, and if i flatten them would the insides glue together.
i wonder how much of actual rubber bits remain in the tyre when the liquid evaporates? say if i pour in 30ml of "milk", what's the amount of solid content in it? does it turn into sticky goo?
i've used a conti revo sealant in latex inner tubes - just wondering if i can reuse them with different tyres, and if i flatten them would the insides glue together.
A combination of a & e should sort it out.
I've made some new wheels, Son H+ and used a Stan's tubeless conversion kit on them. Hutchinson Intensive 25mm are on. All taping and goo adding was done by the book. Actually by the youtube video. Each tyre has "a cup" 60ml of white stuff in them
However, they don't seem able to hold 80 to 90 psi overnight. They drop off to much less than this, 40 psi for one and 10 for the other. Should I
a) put them on a bike and ride them about and keep pumping them up
b) add more white goo
c) put them somewhere cold/warm/damp/environmentally different to a garage
d) give up immediately and fit inner tubes
e) keep pumping them up and give them another couple of days ( they have done this since Saturday )
I've made some new wheels, Son H+ and used a Stan's tubeless conversion kit on them. Hutchinson Intensive 25mm are on. All taping and goo adding was done by the book. Actually by the youtube video. Each tyre has "a cup" 60ml of white stuff in them
However, they don't seem able to hold 80 to 90 psi overnight. They drop off to much less than this, 40 psi for one and 10 for the other. Should I
a) put them on a bike and ride them about and keep pumping them up
b) add more white goo
c) put them somewhere cold/warm/damp/environmentally different to a garage
d) give up immediately and fit inner tubes
e) keep pumping them up and give them another couple of days ( they have done this since Saturday )
f) don't be a cheapskate and get some actual tubeless-specific rims rather than a conversion kit ;)
I only agree if modern means straight-pull or super-thick spokes.
Every time a non-racer rides on reduced spoke-count wheels, the ghost of Sheldon Brown kills a ghost-kitten, trufax
I don't see a point in going under 32 spokes for a general purpose, all weathers wheel. You gain very little and if just one spoke breaks, then the wheel might pringle. Less likely to happen with the CF rims though.
I've made some new wheels, Son H+ and used a Stan's tubeless conversion kit on them. Hutchinson Intensive 25mm are on. All taping and goo adding was done by the book. Actually by the youtube video. Each tyre has "a cup" 60ml of white stuff in them
However, they don't seem able to hold 80 to 90 psi overnight. They drop off to much less than this, 40 psi for one and 10 for the other. Should I
a) put them on a bike and ride them about and keep pumping them up
b) add more white goo
c) put them somewhere cold/warm/damp/environmentally different to a garage
d) give up immediately and fit inner tubes
e) keep pumping them up and give them another couple of days ( they have done this since Saturday )
Maybe should have used tubeless ready rims.
I've made some new wheels, Son H+ and used a Stan's tubeless conversion kit on them. Hutchinson Intensive 25mm are on. All taping and goo adding was done by the book. Actually by the youtube video. Each tyre has "a cup" 60ml of white stuff in them
However, they don't seem able to hold 80 to 90 psi overnight. They drop off to much less than this, 40 psi for one and 10 for the other. Should I
a) put them on a bike and ride them about and keep pumping them up
b) add more white goo
c) put them somewhere cold/warm/damp/environmentally different to a garage
d) give up immediately and fit inner tubes
e) keep pumping them up and give them another couple of days ( they have done this since Saturday )
Update. The wheels are on the bike and I have been riding it since Tuesday. I have ridden to the station and back morning/evening everyday and to the pub on Weds night
On Tuesday, pumped both to 90 psi before leaving for station. At station rear is less than rock hard. Pump up in evening to get home. At home both front and rear seem ok
Wednesday morning front and rear both seem ok (not rock hard but fine to ride) so just go to station. Wednesday evening both still acceptable, ride back
Wednesday evening later both seem ok Ride to pub. Pressure fine during this trip.
This morning check both front and rear with track pump pressure gauge. Both are down to 60psi, pump up to 90
So I am still not happy but 60 psi is better than 40. Hoping for further improvement
Every time a non-racer rides on reduced spoke-count wheels, the ghost of Sheldon Brown kills a ghost-kitten, trufax
I don't see a point in going under 32 spokes for a general purpose, all weathers wheel. You gain very little and if just one spoke breaks, then the wheel might pringle. Less likely to happen with the CF rims though.
I know what you mean. My preference would be for good ole 36 spoke three cross, but they seem to be reserved for cheap mountain bikes and unsupported continental crossings :(
Maybe should have used tubeless ready rims.
Check out this article, which is the only thing I've seen anywhere that attempt to explain what a "road tubeless" rim is
http://wheelworks.co.nz/roadtubeless-vs-standard-rims/
Most of the advantages are to do with mounting, although the anti burping stuff might affect the maximum pressure obtainable
Here's the H Son Plus vs a Stan's Alpha 340
(https://audaxing.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/rimcompare1.png)
I note also that some sources claim that the maximum allowed pressure on a Alpha 340 is 90 psi
Maybe should have used tubeless ready rims.
Check out this article, which is the only thing I've seen anywhere that attempt to explain what a "road tubeless" rim is
http://wheelworks.co.nz/roadtubeless-vs-standard-rims/
Most of the advantages are to do with mounting, although the anti burping stuff might affect the maximum pressure obtainable
Here's the H Son Plus vs a Stan's Alpha 340
(https://audaxing.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/rimcompare1.png)
I note also that some sources claim that the maximum allowed pressure on a Alpha 340 is 90 psi
I was getting my head around this topic when I saw on rant.cc that Hunt have released a range of tubeless ready (to the extent of being supplied with tubeless Schwalbe One's pre-installed) wheels which come with hookless rims.I've just got a set of the Mason x Hunt 4 Seasons for my new Litespeed- picked up the bike Saturday- on the basis of the few miles I've done so far, excellent wheels. Was looking for something equivalent to Campagnolo Zondas, in terms of price/weight/performance/durability, and they fit the bill nicely. Recommended weight limit of 100 kg. The just-announced Gravel Disc versions are 28 hole spoke pattern rather than 24, 110 kg weight limit and the same weight (I think there's 5g in it....). Josh Ibbett at Hunt (Transcontinental Race winner!) has been very helpful in answering my queries, worth dropping him a line.
Now I have to start again :(
linkeh http://road.cc/content/tech-news/169286-hunt-launches-three-new-wheelsets
Do you reckon the 4 season ones could cope with my generous frame? They do look rather lovely for the price....
You might get better answers on a mountain bike forum. Most of us are beginners at the tubeless game.
I've had no issues with my Schwalbe Ones on A340 rims, but that doesn't help you!
Whereas road tubeless have no standard other than some patents by Stan's and want to run the tyres at much higher psi
Your tyres are losing pressure far too quickly. I pumped my tubeless up to 100 psi , rode to Paris, rode PBP, rode back. Total of 8 days elapsed and pressure had dropped to 70 psi. 70 psi us actually my preferred pressure where the comfort and rollng balance feels just right.
This is kind of what I'd expect. So the next question is, what do I do to the wheel to make it less leaky? I am thinking more yellow tape. Unfortunately the extra reel of it I bought seems to be too wide for the rim so I'd have to get some from somewhere.
This is kind of what I'd expect. So the next question is, what do I do to the wheel to make it less leaky? I am thinking more yellow tape. Unfortunately the extra reel of it I bought seems to be too wide for the rim so I'd have to get some from somewhere.
Do an eBay search for tesa 4289 tape. I've seen it in 19mm and 25mm widths, but not the 21mm width that's common for Stan's tape.
You could also try to determine whether it's leaking from the valve hole with some soapy water. Then possibly buy new valves.
Pinching a tyre to test its pressure is an old myth popularized in the music hall with hand actions to the song “Daisy bell.” ( a bicycle built for two )
Precisely. I did suprise someone on a night ride when I got the pressure right to within 5psi.Pinching a tyre to test its pressure is an old myth popularized in the music hall with hand actions to the song “Daisy bell.” ( a bicycle built for two )
Bit odd to call it a myth. Ok, it's hard (literally) when it's over 120 psi, but otherwise it's easy to gauge accurately enough with a strong pinch + experience.
This is kind of what I'd expect. So the next question is, what do I do to the wheel to make it less leaky? I am thinking more yellow tape. Unfortunately the extra reel of it I bought seems to be too wide for the rim so I'd have to get some from somewhere.
Do an eBay search for tesa 4289 tape. I've seen it in 19mm and 25mm widths, but not the 21mm width that's common for Stan's tape.
You could also try to determine whether it's leaking from the valve hole with some soapy water. Then possibly buy new valves.
I have the 21mm tape - it's too wide. The stuff with the kit (12mm tape) is sold as "Universal" tape so I will get some more of this. The rim was taped with 2 layers as recommended.
The valves are included in the "rim strip" which was in the conversion kit. This is a piece of rubber that goes all the way around like a rim tape but has the valve in it
I've just added more sealant to one of the wheels as someone else suggested. See what happens
Thinking of finally trying tubeless (only five years after I got Zonda 2 Way Fits for the Viner specifically to give me that option!)- will be either 25mms for the Viner or something between 28-35mm (or thereabouts) for the new beastie. Apologies if this has already been answered, but on fitment & the necessary bead-fitting inflation: Will a track pump do the job for road tubeless, if not what about a 12v car inflator (the kind powered by a lighter socket), is that enough of a compressor? CO2 seems a bit wasteful, so if purchasing something to fit tyres is needed I'd probably go for an Airshot (http://www.airshotltd.com/product/airshot/).
Hutchinson Sector 28?
Bikey Mikey rates them. I'm on Schwalbe Ones. Fast, but don't know about wear yet. They are about to be made 70g lighter with the Pro One
I fitted Hutchinson Sector 28s last November and they've done just under 7,000 km now, with about 3,000 of that being November-March. I keep toying with replacing them, but whilst the rear has just begun to square off (2-3mm, vaguely flat centre section), the front still looks almost new with the moulding line clearly visible. Very comfortable and no issues with grip in wet or dry.
Your tyres are losing pressure far too quickly. I pumped my tubeless up to 100 psi , rode to Paris, rode PBP, rode back. Total of 8 days elapsed and pressure had dropped to 70 psi. 70 psi us actually my preferred pressure where the comfort and rollng balance feels just right.
Your tyres are losing pressure far too quickly. I pumped my tubeless up to 100 psi , rode to Paris, rode PBP, rode back. Total of 8 days elapsed and pressure had dropped to 70 psi. 70 psi us actually my preferred pressure where the comfort and rollng balance feels just right.
Hi Phil - just saw this, which I missed the first read through...
I started PBP with a little more than usual, say 90 psi, and finished with about 75.....
I also tend to over inflate a tad on the long rides, to allow for leakage etc, but I'm beginning to think that starting lower and using the pinch test, is probably a better option...
Just done the front wheel on the Renegade.
Couldn't have been easier! Remove tube, fit tubeless valve, pump up to seat tyre, remove valve core, squirt in gunk, replace core then pump up again.
American Classic Argent wheels with Clement X'Plor USB tyres.
I get by with a track pump fine, but my trick is to fit new tyres with an inner tube first and leave them overnight to conform to the rim and get rid of any major creases. etc. The other trick is to leave the valve core out for the initial inflation to get the air in quicker/easier.
The other trick is to leave the valve core out for the initial inflation to get the air in quicker/easier.
I believe the difficulties going tubeless is overrated as displayed in this video: https://teammooseisloose.wordpress.com/2015/10/30/team-moose-tackles-the-tubeless-tale/
Dunno, if you have the right combination of rim, tyre and the right equipment it is easy. Trouble is there is quite thin info on what works and doesn't work. Getting hold of the correct stuff isn't that easy. Compared to fitting clichers it isn't as well understood or easy to do. Remember, on yacf (which has on average higher cycling "know how") we have more than on thread about how difficult it is to fit clicher tyres.
Had one single visitation, not dissimilar to Frank's experience... but hissed for longer and liberally coated inside of mudguard with sealant before holding about 10psi. Re-inflated to 70-ish with the mini-pump at roadside and rode home without problems. Rode another 200, also without problems, before dismounting the tyre to check it thoroughly for internal damage and replenishing sealant.
So now you have a tyre weighed down with an unknown quantity of gloop, gloop on the mudguard, and gloop in a puncture that may or may not hold for the life of the tyre. And you still had to stop when you got the puncture, though I accept you had less work to do than replacing an inner tube would have involved.
This doesn’t sound like a worthwhile trade-off to me, yet very many road cyclists are converting to tubeless. Maybe I just hate gloop more than most.
So now you have a tyre weighed down with an unknown quantity of gloop, gloop on the mudguard, and gloop in a puncture that may or may not hold for the life of the tyre. And you still had to stop when you got the puncture, though I accept you had less work to do than replacing an inner tube would have involved.
This doesn’t sound like a worthwhile trade-off to me, yet very many road cyclists are converting to tubeless. Maybe I just hate gloop more than most.
I must admit to sharing your scepticism. I've recently fitted some tubeless-capable tyres to my mountain bike, and have been pondering whether it's worth mucking about filling them with snot. It seems to be a trade-off between ability to run at <30PSI and having a chance at self-sealing after hawthorn attacks, and having to do extra snot-maintenance on an infrequently used bike.
On the road, where I get maybe one or two punctures a year, I'm struggling to see the advantage. But I'm not a weight/rolling resistance weenie.
was riding offroad on a stony track and heard a pss...pss...pss. Then felt a tiny brief spray on my leg
was riding offroad on a stony track and heard a pss...pss...pss. Then felt a tiny brief spray on my leg (no, it wasn't Rogerzilla hiding behind a tree).
was riding offroad on a stony track and heard a pss...pss...pss. Then felt a tiny brief spray on my leg (no, it wasn't Rogerzilla hiding behind a tree).
Could have been worse. Might have been Hummers.
Were they disappointed with the taste?No one ever found out because their mouths were sealed. :)
All very droll, but you only get the psst psst noise and puffs of escaping fluid in the very occasional deep cut type of incident, and you won't even notice the vast majority of ordinary silently sealed pricks...
In a chain gang it's better to get a hypothetical (I don't believe this actually happened) spray in the face from a rider who carries on, than a group crash caused by a sudden complete deflation, tyre off rim, punctured clincher, happening six inches in front of a fast following group
1: New tyres. Old version. But because they're discontinued, I got 'em for €30 each. I can cope with that price.
1: New tyres. Old version. But because they're discontinued, I got 'em for €30 each. I can cope with that price.
Where did you manage to find stock?
Yes - I tried that one too!
1: New tyres. Old version. But because they're discontinued, I got 'em for €30 each. I can cope with that price.
Where did you manage to find stock?
http://www.bikediscount.de/Schwalbe-One-Tubeless-Faltreifen-EVO
claim to have 25mm in stock for 32.90 euros
Oh, no if you press "buy" it says "ausverkauft". So not there
Yes - I tried that one too!
1: New tyres. Old version. But because they're discontinued, I got 'em for €30 each. I can cope with that price.
Where did you manage to find stock?
http://www.bikediscount.de/Schwalbe-One-Tubeless-Faltreifen-EVO
claim to have 25mm in stock for 32.90 euros
Oh, no if you press "buy" it says "ausverkauft". So not there
Cheaper than what? Acycles have them for £39.14 each at the moment ( http://www.acycles.co.uk/recherche.html?motclef=hutchinson+sector+28 ) and shipping is free (from France; takes 5-7 days)
I'd be interested in a pair if you do?
Interesting (perhaps) comparisons:
http://velonews.competitor.com/where-the-rubber-meets-the-road-what-makes-cycling-tires-fast (http://velonews.competitor.com/where-the-rubber-meets-the-road-what-makes-cycling-tires-fast)
wider tyres roll better, but are heavier and less aero. so in real world not faster, but more comfy.
That depends on what kind of real-world riding you're doing, surely?
Has anyone tried specialized roubaix tubeless?
fairly dear at £80 online but 180tpi compared to schwalbe one's 127 tpi....
and 295g compared to schwalbe ones claimed 255g.
So where does that leave Schwalbe Ones on Stan's Alpha rims? are they dangerous then?
So where does that leave Schwalbe Ones on Stan's Alpha rims? are they dangerous then?
Stan's Alpha rims are generally just dangerous. I wouldn't ride them.
So where does that leave Schwalbe Ones on Stan's Alpha rims? are they dangerous then?
Stan's Alpha rims are generally just dangerous. I wouldn't ride them.
Really? Why?
anyone know the answer to this question?
https://www.dtswiss.com/Technology/TUBELESS-Technology (https://www.dtswiss.com/Technology/TUBELESS-Technology)
With the rim in the top pic, the inner bed isn't drilled. So how are spoke nipples inserted?
He says that there are no tubeless rims, only tubeless wheelsets.
What are tubeless wheelsets made with then? Majik fairy wings?
So where does that leave Schwalbe Ones on Stan's Alpha rims? are they dangerous then?
Stan's Alpha rims are generally just dangerous. I wouldn't ride them.
Chris has proposed a method, but that sounds extremely slow and not possible to automate.
So where does that leave Schwalbe Ones on Stan's Alpha rims? are they dangerous then?
Stan's Alpha rims are generally just dangerous. I wouldn't ride them.
All of the rims or just the 340?
Generally we believe you but in this case facts, figures and personal experience to back this up are required
MTB tubeless is a completely different thing. There is much more experience "out there" and there are widely adopted standards for tyres and rims.So where does that leave Schwalbe Ones on Stan's Alpha rims? are they dangerous then?
Stan's Alpha rims are generally just dangerous. I wouldn't ride them.
All of the rims or just the 340?
Generally we believe you but in this case facts, figures and personal experience to back this up are required
I think the MTB rims are fine, but you're not running as high pressures as you are on a road bike. I certainly know people personally who run the MTB rims with tubeless and non-tubeless tyres (and non-tubeless tyres run tubeless with sealant) and the tyre hasn't rolled off the rim. Some run pretty extremely low pressure as well.
The problem with the road rims is the shape of the bead of the tyre and the shape of the "bead socket technology" as Stan's call it. You will probably be okay with a Hutchinson tyre as the bead on these is a thick carbon fibre bead with a very distinct shape.
Normal tyres with a kevlar bead and inner tube run the highest risk of blowing off. I've lost track of what the other tyre companies are using for their tubeless beads. I think it's simpler and safer to use a different rim with more of a hook (Velocity, Kinlin, Pacenti) and you can successfully run tyres with inner tubes and not have to worry as much about getting the right rim / tyre combination.
There are two questions to ask:
1. if the tyre deflates, will the tyre roll of the rim?
If the rims follow the Shimano / Hutchinson standard then they will not.
2. if you have to put a tube in as your tyre will not seal, will the tyre blow off the rim?
Again, if the rim follows the Shimano / Hutchy standard then it will not.
There are two questions to ask:
1. if the tyre deflates, will the tyre roll of the rim?
If the rims follow the Shimano / Hutchinson standard then they will not.
2. if you have to put a tube in as your tyre will not seal, will the tyre blow off the rim?
Again, if the rim follows the Shimano / Hutchy standard then it will not.
Read the thread, Mikey. Hutchinson don't blow off the rim because of the thick carbon fibre bead they use. You might not be so lucky with other tyres. The Schwalbes seem to get a good write up, and I haven't read any incidents of them blowing off the rim, either.
I'm no luddite - I'm running Hutchinsons on DT Swiss R23 spline tubeless ready wheels. They haven't blown off the rim, either.
It just annoys me when there are clearly set out standards for these rims and tyres and not everyone follows the standard, including Stan for their rim shape. The hooks should be bigger. It'd add about 10 grams to the rim weight!.
Read the thread, Mikey. Hutchinson don't blow off the rim because of the thick carbon fibre bead they use. You might not be so lucky with other tyres. The Schwalbes seem to get a good write up, and I haven't read any incidents of them blowing off the rim, either.
I'm no luddite - I'm running Hutchinsons on DT Swiss R23 spline tubeless ready wheels. They haven't blown off the rim, either.
It just annoys me when there are clearly set out standards for these rims and tyres and not everyone follows the standard, including Stan for their rim shape. The hooks should be bigger. It'd add about 10 grams to the rim weight!.
The theory of an inner tube giving mechanical support still baffles me. Needing stiffer beads for the shallower hooks they're sometimes used with is all the manufacturers need claim.
The theory of an inner tube giving mechanical support still baffles me. Needing stiffer beads for the shallower hooks they're sometimes used with is all the manufacturers need claim.
I had the same view, but there is a mechanical difference. With a tube the pressure holding the bead under the hooks is exerted through the tube, which is pushed against the tyre creating friction helping to stop the tyre riding up over the bead hooks. This works because air isn't held in any gaps by a seal and so the tube is always forced against the tyre. With a tubeless tyre, the air holds the tyre against the rim wall, but there is not additional resistance to the tyre riding around the bead.
Some mtb rims are now hookless!
The theory of an inner tube giving mechanical support still baffles me. Needing stiffer beads for the shallower hooks they're sometimes used with is all the manufacturers need claim.
I had the same view, but there is a mechanical difference. With a tube the pressure holding the bead under the hooks is exerted through the tube, which is pushed against the tyre creating friction helping to stop the tyre riding up over the bead hooks. This works because air isn't held in any gaps by a seal and so the tube is always forced against the tyre. With a tubeless tyre, the air holds the tyre against the rim wall, but there is not additional resistance to the tyre riding around the bead.
Some mtb rims are now hookless!
Dunno if all the Hunt-Mason road wheels are completely hookless but apparently at least the carbon fibre ones are
http://road.cc/content/news/165935-hunt-bike-wheels-massively-expands-disc-brake-wheel-range-2016
Just the carbon I suspect. I don't think you need to look far to work out what the alloy rims are.
Just the carbon I suspect. I don't think you need to look far to work out what the alloy rims are.
What are they? I was toying with the idea of getting some!
road.cc have a review of the tubeless S-One if you're interested.
http://road.cc/content/review/173205-schwalbe-s-one-tubeless-tyre
OK here is an update on my 'mileage' (kilometreage?) on my REAR Hutchinson Sector 28 tubeless.
I have at last found the post where I described how I inadvertently ruined the previous rear...
On the Rural South 300 (27th June 15) I had a silly moment. I forgot to reconnect the long strap that tightens around the Koala bag on the seat post. Some time later I was descending a really fast hill with really smooth tarmac, touching 60 kph, and feeling totally secure, when the rear wheel locked up completely. Oh shit, I'm doing an extended Swedish Rally sideways slide at over 50 kph, and the bike's not even slowing and it's twitchy all over the place and it's still happening and oh god I'm beginning to get scared and I don't know whether to jump or fight the slide till it stops...funny how you get scared when there is time to visualise the pain... Any way I finally stopped and saw what had happened... The strap had wound round and round the rear axle, and in so doing it stopped the wheel... The tyre had worn right through the tread and two layers of puncture resistant material, and the damage was roughly the size of my little finger, and it looked horrible, but the air was still safe inside it, so I tried riding it expecting it to blow at any time, but it lasted another maybe 180 Kms.. Go figure...
With the exact date I was able to go on Garmin Connect and run a report on my distance etc since then, and I have done:-
8,596.2 kms
over 425 hours 36 mins 21 secs
averaging 20.1 kms including stops
and climbing 62,618 metres
THE TYRE STILL HAS A NICELY ROUNDED PROFILE, AND I'M PRETTY CHUFFED.....
road.cc have a review of the tubeless S-One if you're interested.
http://road.cc/content/review/173205-schwalbe-s-one-tubeless-tyre
Sounding good.
road.cc have a review of the tubeless S-One if you're interested.
http://road.cc/content/review/173205-schwalbe-s-one-tubeless-tyre
Sounding good.
It does, doesn't it ?
Sadly, I've had an e-mail from a German on-line shop that they haven't got them in stock and they don't know when they'll get them.
My LBS (1st port of call) said the same, hence my looking for alternative suppliers.
This is a bit of a bugger since the GP4Seasons on the rear of the Disco (by far my favourite bike) is looking so bad that I'm very reluctant to use it.
It's lucky that I'm not audaxing or even riding much atm ..............
road.cc have a review of the tubeless S-One if you're interested.
http://road.cc/content/review/173205-schwalbe-s-one-tubeless-tyre
Sounding good.
It does, doesn't it ?
Sadly, I've had an e-mail from a German on-line shop that they haven't got them in stock and they don't know when they'll get them.
My LBS (1st port of call) said the same, hence my looking for alternative suppliers.
This is a bit of a bugger since the GP4Seasons on the rear of the Disco (by far my favourite bike) is looking so bad that I'm very reluctant to use it.
It's lucky that I'm not audaxing or even riding much atm ..............
I've probably got a very slightly used 28mm One Tubeless somewhere if you want to try such a thing through the dark months?
PM if so
Mike
I have an unused 35mm Marathon Supreme hanging around that I can use in the short term and enjoy the comfort of a large tyre ;D.
There's lots for clearance on the Disco so I don't forsee any issues.
I have an unused 35mm Marathon Supreme hanging around that I can use in the short term and enjoy the comfort of a large tyre ;D.
There's lots for clearance on the Disco so I don't forsee any issues.
Hhhmm, much less room than I anticipated; I had to ditch my botch-up mudguards.
Haven't ridden it yet but the tyre looks huge; it measures 36mm at 80psi.
No doubt I'll drop the pressure when I get used to it.
Punctured yesterday.
First flat since 12th May 2015.
Old tube out. New tube in, pump up and go home.
Fix punctured tube in front of telly last night.
No messy goo.
Punctured yesterday.
First flat since 12th May 2015.
Old tube out. New tube in, pump up and go home.
Fix punctured tube in front of telly last night.
No messy goo.
You know, I think early condom adverts sounded much the same ;D ;D ;D
Has anyone tried out the Schwalbe S-One Evo Microskin TL-Easy Folding tyres?
I am attracted to them given they are 700x30C, I love my Durano Plus Folding and I have been visitation free for a good 4000 combined miles over 2 bikes, but I miss the comfort of a fatter tyre having come from 700x35 cyclospeeds.
I've got a HSON+ on the front and Alex Rims XD-Elite on the back but my assumption is it's just a case of giving it a good wrap of tape to get a seal......?
<snip>
Tyre now at 10,226.61 kilometres
Had no punctures/stoppages and it's still looking reasonable, and it's holding it's pressure well, and still pretty grippy, <Snip>
<snip>
Tyre now at 10,226.61 kilometres
Had no punctures/stoppages and it's still looking reasonable, and it's holding it's pressure well, and still pretty grippy, <Snip>
Hey Mikey, what pressure are you running in your Sector 28's please.
I can't quite bring myself to go any lower, probably because I'm a cowardly wimp...
Then again a little voice in my head is saying
"just suppose his pump reads 15 psi less than my pump, for the same actual pressure?"
Has anyone ever done a pump multi test??
Has anyone tried out the Schwalbe S-One Evo Microskin TL-Easy Folding tyres?
I am attracted to them given they are 700x30C,
Has anyone tried out the Schwalbe S-One Evo Microskin TL-Easy Folding tyres?
I am attracted to them given they are 700x30C,
I've been trying to get a pair since before Xmas; the German bike stores don't have stock and no indication when they might get some and my LBS haven't been able to get any out of the importer.
If you find some, please let me know where they are.
I fancy them on my Dirty Disco because they're 30mm and they seem to offer more durability than the Pro One.
Thanks vorsprung.
I hadn't checked recently (ie this week) on the sites so I missed that.
A tyre has been ordered.
Fingers crossed that they do have stock.
I'm toying with the idea of this:
http://www.milkit.bike/
for when I have to replace, seems a good way to inspect the goeyness of the goo
QuoteI'm toying with the idea of this:
http://www.milkit.bike/
for when I have to replace, seems a good way to inspect the goeyness of the goo
They are a very good way to inspect the gooeyness!! I backed them on kickstarter and have had a pair for a while. Please do make sure that you completely deflate the tyre before doing the sampling thing! otherwise your garage is sprayed with the goo!
I pumped the tyre up again and it was holding....until I put weight on it and it started leaking again.the difference (in pressure in the tyre) between you and a 65kg lightweight sitting on the bike is going to be very little
Thanks vorsprung.
I hadn't checked recently (ie this week) on the sites so I missed that.
A tyre has been ordered.
Fingers crossed that they do have stock.
The hole doesn't look big to me (less than 2mm) but it must be too large for the sealant. I am going to try and patch it with a inner tube patch on the inside and superglue on the outside and see how I get on. A proper "tubeless external repair kit" is on order
Some rim / tyre combinations are harder to put on than others - whether tubeless or not. I've only done Schwalbe One / Stan's Alpha rims and they are no harder than the average clincher. I've had to do one roadside repair in the last year and got the tyre back on with my fingers.
This does put me off tubeless somewhat. Patching the hole is very difficult because tubeless tyres are so tight. To remove requires multiple steel tyre levers. To refit requires a bead jack. I wouldn't want to attempt this at 3am in Wales.
This does put me off tubeless somewhat. Patching the hole is very difficult because tubeless tyres are so tight. To remove requires multiple steel tyre levers. To refit requires a bead jack. I wouldn't want to attempt this at 3am in Wales.
This forum would be fairly scathing of people who tried to run 10 speed mechs with 9 speed cassettes
Except that the indexing comes from the shifter, not the mech, so a 10-speed mech and 9-speed cassette (or indeed 10-speed cassette and 9-speed mech) will generally work just fine.
(As ever, one of the edge cases is where you want to use 10-speed Shimano road shifters and an MTB mech, where you *must* use a 9-speed or earlier mech, because the cable pull ratio changed for 10-speed MTB derailleurs.)
... But the point about 'non-recommended' options working perfectly in the right combinations stands.)
QuoteThis does put me off tubeless somewhat. Patching the hole is very difficult because tubeless tyres are so tight. To remove requires multiple steel tyre levers. To refit requires a bead jack. I wouldn't want to attempt this at 3am in Wales.
This forum would be fairly scathing of people who tried to run 10 speed shifter with 9 speed cassettes or similar so why complain when your standard clincher rim does not work properly with your tubeless tyre. Yes it may with fudging work but it is not properly designed to work together and it will fail more often and need harder work.
I had a friend staying over last week. He'd tried a 'ghetto tubeless' setup on his road bike, then crit raced it.
The tyre rolled off on a hairpin. My friend looked rather bruised and bloodied.
Quelle surprise.
Panracer make a tubeless repair kit for fixing punctures that doesn't require raking the wheel or tyre off the bike. Been around a while and work great, not that I've had punctures to fix with tubeless other than 2 on mtn bike over a 10 year period.
I've been using Stan's Grail rims for a year, with Hutchinson Sector 28 tyres. Minimal loss of air - well, my idea of minimal anyway, since I pump them up before each ride and it varies from 1-2 psi 'needed' after a day, to 5 psi after 4-5 days. That's with pressures at 70 & 80 psi, front/rear. All four tyres I've fitted on the Grails have gone on without levers (and I'm far from expert, having only been cycling 18 months) and all four have inflated first time with a track pump.
So, I have no comparators, but the Grails, with those tyres, seem to work very well in all respects.
I had a friend staying over last week. He'd tried a 'ghetto tubeless' setup on his road bike, then crit raced it.
The tyre rolled off on a hairpin. My friend looked rather bruised and bloodied.
Quelle surprise.
out of interest, is the "ghetto tubeless" setup a non-tubeless rim plus a tubeless tyre on it? or neither of them tubeless? :o
Use the German online sites like Rose bikes or bike24. You can select English.
Use the German online sites like Rose bikes or bike24. You can select English.
http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/schwalbe-pro-one-evo-osc-tl-easy-25-622-folding-497909 have used this shop. Good
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/schwalbe-pro-one-evo-road-tyre-hs-462-folding-tyre/aid:870785 have used. Expensive
http://www.starbike.com/en/schwalbe-pro-one/ have used. Good. V good for spokes and wheel building
https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=62612;menu=1000,4,22,35 have used often. Good
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Schwalbe/Pro-One-Evolution-MicroSkin-OneStar-Faltreifen-Modell-2016-p45634/ have not used
Be sure to check you are ordering 25mm tubeless, and this years model of tyre - which is slightly better
I am hoping to embark on the tubeless adventure when my new wheels arrive next week.How come your not going 28c Ted?
The only snag appears to be sourcing some tyres. I am having real trouble finding some Schwalbe Pro One 25mm tyres.
Any suggestions welcome (I would like to go with the Schwalbe as I like the clincher version).
How come your not going 28c Ted?
Trouble is, I'm not sure that the Schwalbe tyres will work ok on my non standard H Son Plus rims. So it might be back to clichers
The Hutchinson Intensive 25mm have now done 2100km or so (actually a bit more, some rides were not logged) and I've had yet another puncture that the sealant couldn't cope with. Let's call it a "big hole". "big" is 2mm+ but it's relative
I tried to fix it "in the field" with the Weldite external patch kit. This amazing kit comes with a tube of rubber glue, a knife, two special tools and some strips of rubber coated string. The basic idea is that the string is poked into the hole with the tools. First attempt didn't work at all, inflation blew out the string. Second attempt worked to some extent and I rode for another 30 minutes before the patching string ripped itself out. Third attempt was made more difficult to cope with as by now I am out of CO2 carts. Eventually managed to get the tyre reseated by pumping very very fast. Dunno how good the third repair is but I am home now. The ride was cut short
There seem to be a load of nicks in the tyres now. I wonder if they will do one of these "big holes" every 50 miles or so now? If so I will have to part company with the Hutchinson Intensive option. They are supposed to be "heavy" "winter" tyres. Maybe that doesn't include durability. They aren't fast tyres, the grip is good but they are narrow even on wide rims.
Trouble is, I'm not sure that the Schwalbe tyres will work ok on my non standard H Son Plus rims. So it might be back to clichers
..f so I will have to part company with the Hutchinson Intensive option. They are supposed to be "heavy" "winter" tyres. Maybe that doesn't include durability. They aren't fast tyres, the grip is good but they are narrow even on wide rims.
Trouble is, I'm not sure that the Schwalbe tyres will work ok on my non standard H Son Plus rims. So it might be back to clichers
Sector 28s my boy !!
Trouble is, I'm not sure that the Schwalbe tyres will work ok on my non standard H Son Plus rims. So it might be back to clichers
Non-standard?
My H + Son Archetypes seem to be fine with the Schwalbe One tubeless, both last year's and the new "TL easy" version, although bizarrely the latter was less easy to get seated on the rim.
..f so I will have to part company with the Hutchinson Intensive option. They are supposed to be "heavy" "winter" tyres. Maybe that doesn't include durability. They aren't fast tyres, the grip is good but they are narrow even on wide rims.
Trouble is, I'm not sure that the Schwalbe tyres will work ok on my non standard H Son Plus rims. So it might be back to clichers
Sector 28s my boy !!
Unfortunately the Ridley won't do bigger than 25mm with guards. Which is a shame, I like 28mm
..f so I will have to part company with the Hutchinson Intensive option. They are supposed to be "heavy" "winter" tyres. Maybe that doesn't include durability. They aren't fast tyres, the grip is good but they are narrow even on wide rims.
Trouble is, I'm not sure that the Schwalbe tyres will work ok on my non standard H Son Plus rims. So it might be back to clichers
Sector 28s my boy !!
Unfortunately the Ridley won't do bigger than 25mm with guards. Which is a shame, I like 28mm
Just me and you then Mikey. My Sector 28s are proving a very reliable and nice riding tyre.
So how often should I check the sealant?
So how often should I check the sealant?
Bearing in my mind, I HATE fettling, bikes are for riding not pissing around taking apart and then wondering why it won't go back together withouta hammersomeone who knows what they're doing.
and another thing
I have a new bike that will work best with 30 to 33mm tyres. I'd like fast/race ones. The only option in tubeless in the size slightly bigger than 28mm with a fast compound is the Schwalbe S-One, which is 30mm
Sadly not available anywhere at the moment. I have "alerts" set up on a couple of german sites
TIP of the WEEK
If you want to remove the valve cores to add more sealant, a size 11 spoke key works great. I've previously used point nosed pliers
Before you say "but I don't have an size 11 spoke key! My spokes are 14 gauge!" If you have a cheap tool kit with a round spoke key tool then you probably do
the thing I mean is this
(https://merlincycles-img.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/productImage_1280_1024_ffffff_image-jpeg/5833_icetoolz_multi_spoke_key.jpg)
Just to press hard on the tyre with two thumbs fairly close to the rim. It gets easier as more is unseated. Repeat other side.
Just to press hard on the tyre with two thumbs fairly close to the rim. It gets easier as more is unseated. Repeat other side.
Don't forget to let the air out first;)
Taken the plunge based on the experiences here.
Rather than start a new thread..... Tyre deformity - anyone had this with tubeless??
I've got a Hutchinson Intensive on the back of the fixed after successfully doing a conversion with a rim strip, only this winter's (pitifully low) mileage on of ~500, and there's a slight deformity on one part of the tyre with a bulge about 15mm square but no visible damage whatsoever and the tiny bump it creates isn't noticeable whilst riding. Would you soldier on with this in the proper cheapskate manner or do you think this is something that really wants changing? It's by the valve where the rim strip is really fat so could potentially interfere with the bead, I'm wondering if this has caused it.
I'm jealous! My bike came with the "Performance line" non-tubeless version of the S-One which OEMs use to shave a few pennies :(
You do like a high pressure though, I'm running mine at 60psi and I bet I weight a lot more than you!
I managed to get an anchovy in (first time I'd done it and it is a bit frightening, stabbing your tyre with a metal spike),
I had a failure of sorts yesterday on a club run. I noticed my rear tyre was slightly soft and borrowed a clubmate's pump (as I only had a small, emergency one). It was a Leyzne and it unscrewed my valve core. So I lost the seal and had to put a tube in. I don't blame the tyre for that, though!
FWIW, I got the kit on the basis of a review on roadcc:- http://road.cc/content/review/183575-genuine-innovations-tubeless-tire-repair-kit
If your Lezyne pump is like mine, one end of the hose can be slipped over the valve rather than screwed on, eliminating the risk of unscrewing the valve core.
Alternatively, just make sure your valve cores are tightly screwed in before using the pump. You only need to check this once. Also use the air-bleed button (ABS) before unscrewing the hose, and/or unscrew the hose from the pump before unscrewing from the valve.
Purely for comparison (I'm definitely not trying to tell a vastly more experienced rider how to suck eggs)
I'll admit to 110Kg on a very good day.
I run Schwalbe One 28mm, original tubed version at 75/80 F/R.
I jumped on my new bike with the S-Ones and thought, hey the tyres look about right and was very surprised when I put the track pump on them and read 60PSI. I tried them at that and it seems to work. I doubt I would have gone that low otherwise.
Of course, I might just have a very poor pressure gauge!
1- How do you know how much sealant to put in? I see anywhere between 30ml and 70ml being put in to 28mm tyres.
2- When you top up (every 3 months being mentioned) do you remove all the old sealant and start again or do you just add more?
I now have some Sector 28s mounted on Son H Archetype rims, with Stans tape and sealant. Didnt get much in the way of a loud pop when I mounted them even using a compressor. However they have not leaked any air overnight and there is no evidence of any sealant extruding anywhere.
My question is : What pressure should I run them at?
I am 165 lbs, the side walls say inflate 87-101 lbs. I have read 75 front/85 rear a few times, some people run them lower.
I am confused.
I now have some Sector 28s mounted on Son H Archetype rims, with Stans tape and sealant. Didnt get much in the way of a loud pop when I mounted them even using a compressor. However they have not leaked any air overnight and there is no evidence of any sealant extruding anywhere.
My question is : What pressure should I run them at?
I am 165 lbs, the side walls say inflate 87-101 lbs. I have read 75 front/85 rear a few times, some people run them lower.
I am confused.
you don't mention it but with that sort of rim you need to use a rim strip
try it at whatever pressure you fancy, see what happens. Remember you can't snakebite the tyres from too low pressure
I now have some Sector 28s mounted on Son H Archetype rims, with Stans tape and sealant. Didnt get much in the way of a loud pop when I mounted them even using a compressor. However they have not leaked any air overnight and there is no evidence of any sealant extruding anywhere.
My question is : What pressure should I run them at?
I am 165 lbs, the side walls say inflate 87-101 lbs. I have read 75 front/85 rear a few times, some people run them lower.
I am confused.
you don't mention it but with that sort of rim you need to use a rim strip
try it at whatever pressure you fancy, see what happens. Remember you can't snakebite the tyres from too low pressure
Whats the difference between rim strip and rim tape? I used 2 layers of 21mm Stans tape (like your wordpress article) and the separate Stans Valves. Did I need something different?
Thx
I now have some Sector 28s mounted on Son H Archetype rims, with Stans tape and sealant. Didnt get much in the way of a loud pop when I mounted them even using a compressor. However they have not leaked any air overnight and there is no evidence of any sealant extruding anywhere.
My question is : What pressure should I run them at?
I am 165 lbs, the side walls say inflate 87-101 lbs. I have read 75 front/85 rear a few times, some people run them lower.
I am confused.
Your post was clear. It’s just that a rim bottoming out would scare me even with tubeless, so I thought tubeless wouldn’t allow lower pressures in practice (due to rim damage even if you avoid a pinch flat). But you’ve done it and lived to tell the tale, so clearly tubeless does allow lower pressures. Rims are strong things, I suppose.
I have no useful suggestions for you, but I noticed the Japanese company IRC (http://www.irc-tire.com/en/bc/) has several tubeless tyres. Does anyone here use them?
Your post was clear. It’s just that a rim bottoming out would scare me even with tubeless, so I thought tubeless wouldn’t allow lower pressures in practice (due to rim damage even if you avoid a pinch flat). But you’ve done it and lived to tell the tale, so clearly tubeless does allow lower pressures. Rims are strong things, I suppose.
This time there was slow pressure loss and lots of "frothing" around the valve although this was only apparent in the morning after staying in a hotel overnight.
I'd welcome any feedback.
When did you last replace the sealant? I use Stans and it seems to become less effective after a couple of months
This time there was slow pressure loss and lots of "frothing" around the valve although this was only apparent in the morning after staying in a hotel overnight.
My tubeless rear has also deflated via the valve surrounding, have put in a tube and yet to attempt resealing. Couldn't see any cracks in the rim tape. I suspect that part of the problem might be that the majority of the sealant never comes near the valve assembly when on the bike - taking the wheel off and shaking it when held horizontal might be required (as per the Stan's installation instructions) - did you try this?
My wheels have lost about 10 psi over a week. This seems reasonably normal?
I stand by my conclusion that the extra weight I carry (I'm 17 stone) is what causes the issue.
When you hear the rush of air, it's best to jump off and take action to stop it. Either put your finger over the hole or press the hole into the road. That will stop it quicker than relying on the sealant to act on its own.Hasn't worked for me I'm afraid.
Plug type tubeless repair kit.
Surprised at your choice of tyre for these conditions. The Pro One is a light racing tyre. I have them on autumn/spring wheels, but for now im using Hutchinson Sector 32.
<...> The problem with riding that bike in the winter is that it's disk brake pads last about 10 minutes. But let's not get into this now
He may mean acycles.fr (http://www.acycles.fr) or the .co.uk equivalent.
<...> The problem with riding that bike in the winter is that it's disk brake pads last about 10 minutes. But let's not get into this now
wet and skoggy conditions is the only reason i choose to ride disc braked bike, otherwise there's not much point in having disc brakes.. in my opinion.
Whoops yes, acycles in France..
Latest one year of tubeless blog update post here https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2016/12/24/whats-so-great-about-tubeless-tyres/
Latest one year of tubeless blog update post here https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2016/12/24/whats-so-great-about-tubeless-tyres/I'm going to contradict your rather non-positive experience described in that blog post too. At least, since I clearly can't deny that that's your experience, I'll contrast it with mine which is reasonably summed up as 'hassle free and reliable'. I'm sure this comes down to all the variable factors, such as what sort of tyres and rims you have and their interaction, the type of puncture inducing hazards you encounter and possibly how you ride in some manner.
Latest one year of tubeless blog update post here https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2016/12/24/whats-so-great-about-tubeless-tyres/
This doesn't reflect my experience at all. In fact beyond what you need to be tubeless (tubeless tape, tubeless valve, sealant, tubeless tyre) you don't need any specialist equipment at all. Just tyre levers and a track pump. I think possible ways for you to improve your technique are to dispense with the syringe at the time of mounting and just pour the sealant into the well of the tyre at the bottom that you leave open having mounted most of the tyre, then roll the tyre round so that the open part is at the top and finish mounting the tyre. Pre-wiping the outside walls with a strong washing-up liquid solution really helps the mounting. Then inflate like fuck with a track pump. No need at all for an airshot.
The syringe is for topping up the sealant after a few months. Tubeless valves can be found pretty cheaply, and you can use gorilla tape instead of tubeless tape.
Latest one year of tubeless blog update post here https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2016/12/24/whats-so-great-about-tubeless-tyres/
Orangeseal is being punted as very good.
I'm going to try it out in some tubulars.
a broken little finger and part severed tendons in my middle and index fingers on my left hand -Ouch!
Well......
Last week I had a tubeless related accident with my "trusty" ghetto pop bottle inflator. Yep, it went pop at about 80psi while trying to seat a stubborn tyre. Result was tyre still un seated and a broken little finger and part severed tendons in my middle and index fingers on my left hand - I was holding the exit tube of the bottle closed at the time . The title of this thread has become very appropriate for me!
It was a bottle I've been using for a year or so , whenever a track pump alone wouldn't work, and I wonder if that contributed - old bottle, plastic degraded, possibly scratched, weakened from many pressurisation cycles, etc, etc hindsight is a wonderful thing etc, etc lesson learnt the hard way .
Just posting this as a warning just in case anyone else is using this method . I've now taken delivery of an Airshot , which originally seemed expensive, now seems cheap.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
Here you go...Excellent bloodage :thumbsup:
contains blood ;)(click to show/hide)
Ouch - I guess that's the price of "ghetto"? :-\
I understand the point of tubeless on MTB - low pressures with no pinch flats. On road, where you want a reasonable pressure, that doesn't seem like enough of a USP. If simply avoiding punctures is the name of the game, is there any reason why you can't just put that sealant stuff inside an inner tube? I guess it might stick the inner tube to the tyre as it sealed the holes, but I'm sure with enough persuasion you could part them when the time came.
Yeah, for me it's having fast tyres that are also reliable. - the Audax holly grail.
What if a reasonable pressure is low enough to make pinch flats likely? What if you want a higher pressure and don't want any risk of pinch flats? what if you just don't want any flats?Solid tyres? :P
There is only one answer to this.
Well, Ive had no problems and Ive not used Stans rims, not used a compressor, not used a bike shop, not used tried and tested tyres ;D
I wasn't trying to be rude, and I'm glad that there are some significant success stories here. It's often the case that threads are full of people with issues, because they keep coming back, while those for whom it works are too busy having fun! ;)
I'm just looking for a new bike and wondering whether tubeless is something that I should consider when replacing the standard tyres (and they are only 25s, so I'll probably go 28 or 30 fairly quickly).
Here you go...
contains blood ;)(click to show/hide)
For the sake of safety, it is an excellent idea to bind a load of tape (almost any tape is better than nothing) around the bottle. This won't stop it from splitting, but it will mitigate the damage when if it does burst. Also, it isn't a bad idea to have the bottle inside an old trouser leg or something.
It will have to wait - budget gone on bike plus bottle cages etc. It will have to wait until next year for the grand tubeless setup (unless I can make these Fulcrum 77s work properly as tubeless rims and not have a significant faff doing so - maybe my birthday might be a good time for new tyres). I shall keep an eye on this thread...
Yes, you should go tubeless. Even if you want a new bike that comes with the usual quality of OEM wheels, you should buy some tubeless rims or wheels and transition straight away.
Dare I say it - Flatus is correct. And it's good sense in summer too I reckon given that you can buy Vittoria Corsa Speeds in tubeless ready. There are increasing numbers of nice tyres from 23 upwards.
Am I correct in summarising that:I think that's somewhat inaccurate. You need sealant for all types of tyre. Running non-tubeless tyres tubeless is probably a bad idea - the beads are not as strong as tubeless beads... But I'm only a reader - I have no actual experience of tubeless...
Optimal is tubeless tyres and rim, best/essential for higher pressures
Rims can be adapted to tubeless with stans tape, depending on the rim you will hold higher pressures
Tyres can be adapted to tubeless with stans sealant, but you need to run low pressures
You can adapt both rims and tyres
The further you go down the list the lower your psi and the greater the risk.
I'm still not sure of the difference between UST and Tubeless Ready. Is it possible to run Tubeless Ready rims without lashings of rim tape? Do none/some/all have spokes exposed on the tyre side of the rim?
you fit some test spokes of known length (opposite one another), measure the gap and then calculate the ERD from that.
The inserts (which are sometimes nipples rather than nipple carriers, or can be spoke carriers if the nipples are at the hub end) are all highly susceptible to seizure in our lovely climate.
you fit some test spokes of known length (opposite one another), measure the gap and then calculate the ERD from that.
Seems pretty obvious now you mention it.QuoteThe inserts (which are sometimes nipples rather than nipple carriers, or can be spoke carriers if the nipples are at the hub end) are all highly susceptible to seizure in our lovely climate.
Hmmm. Might just stick to a 'tubeless ready' rim then.
Am I correct in summarising that:
Optimal is tubeless tyres and rim, best/essential for higher pressures Yes
Rims can be adapted to tubeless with stans tape, depending on the rim you will hold higher pressuresNo, whether a rim works for tubeless depends on the shape of the channel and the height of the sides. You need a channel with shelves for the bead to sit on, rather than one that slopes gently up to the rim wall - compare profiles of Kinlin 22T and H Plus Son Archetype (below). All these rims need tape. I don't really like Stans and have started using a polyester tape that is similar to the caffelatex tape, but cheaper. The tape seals the holes, but can be used with tubes as well of course. Some rims have a suitable shape, but don't claim to be tubeless ready - you may find bead channel dimensions are not optimal for example. Others don't claim to be tubeless, look the wrong shape but people still do it (archetype is the classic), which I wouldn't.
Tyres can be adapted to tubeless with stans sealant, but you need to run low pressures Sometimes, at your own risk. There is widespread variation in experience. I've done Vittoria Voyager Hypers, based on this link https://whosatthewheel.com/2015/08/10/ghetto-tubeless-conversions/, but one blew off at 80psi when wet with detergent. I run them at 50 to 60 on the road, but it's all a bit of a careful experiment. The issue for road tubeless is that the bead isn't as strong and is stretchier, hence the risk of the tyre dismounting itself.
You can adapt both rims and tyres Never tried, but I presume you could
The further you go down the list the lower your psi and the greater the risk. Yes and, definitely, yes!
Can anyone comment from experience on whether or not rim tape (Stan's in my case) should be replaced when replacing a tyre? I'm finding my tyres are lasting for about 10,000km or so and have only replaced front and rear once each and I've simply left the tape I'd originally fitted in place. Is this normal practise, or should it be renewed with a new tyre? Certainly, I've had no issues so far but perhaps I've just been lucky?
I would only replace if it got dislodged or otherwise leaked
Some rim profiles...
This might be of interest to some
https://whosatthewheel.com/2015/08/10/ghetto-tubeless-conversions/
A propos of which, I'm not planning to use it tubeless initially, but bearing in mind that I will probably switch to tubeless sooner or later, would it be worth using tubeless tape rather than conventional rim tape? Or will that cause problems in use with tubes?
Doesn't cause problems with tubes - but I've found it's easy to damage the tape with tyre levers when fitting particularly tight (non-tubeless) tyres. Thick conventional rim tapes like Velox can make it difficult to fit tyres to tubeless-ready rims as it fills the well in the centre.
This might be of interest to some
https://whosatthewheel.com/2015/08/10/ghetto-tubeless-conversions/
Last year I gave emergency couch space to a rather bloodied friend who had tried that for crit racing. The only thing that surprised me when his tyre rolled off on the last hairpin, was that it had stayed on for all the previous laps.
Hmmm. Thanks for the info. So, potential problems either way... Maybe it will be best to just bite the bullet and go tubeless.
Why the implied reticence?
This might be of interest to some
https://whosatthewheel.com/2015/08/10/ghetto-tubeless-conversions/
Last year I gave emergency couch space to a rather bloodied friend who had tried that for crit racing. The only thing that surprised me when his tyre rolled off on the last hairpin, was that it had stayed on for all the previous laps.
I wouldn't attempt it either, personally, but then I'm not as penny-pinching as some ;)
Why the implied reticence?
Purely the cost of tubeless tyres. Don't really fancy the ghetto conversion of the current tyres (Marathon Supremes). Will probably make the switch next time the tyres need replacing.
Doesn't cause problems with tubes - but I've found it's easy to damage the tape with tyre levers when fitting particularly tight (non-tubeless) tyres. Thick conventional rim tapes like Velox can make it difficult to fit tyres to tubeless-ready rims as it fills the well in the centre.
Hmmm. Thanks for the info. So, potential problems either way... Maybe it will be best to just bite the bullet and go tubeless.
Wiggle did Hutchinson Sector 32 for £28. (Ideal winter tyre)
Why the implied reticence?
Purely the cost of tubeless tyres. Don't really fancy the ghetto conversion of the current tyres (Marathon Supremes). Will probably make the switch next time the tyres need replacing.
If you shop around...
Wiggle did Hutchinson Sector 32 for £28. (Ideal winter tyre)
I got some Schwalbe Pro Ones from France for not much a while back.
I dont carry sealant on the bike. I do have a tubeless repair kit but Ive never used it. I think when you start to get frequent (self-sealing) punctures then you have to start thinking about replacing the tyre.
Incidentally, i use a different mounting method. Mount tyre most of the way, soapy water wiped on bead. Leave a bit of tyre unmounted in which you pour in the sealant. Rotate wheel 90° so that sealant pools at bottom where tyre is seated. Mount remaining but then pump like fuck. Then do the old wobbling and rotating of the wheel to sluice the sealant around.
<...>
Incidentally, i use a different mounting method. Mount tyre most of the way, soapy water wiped on bead. Leave a bit of tyre unmounted in which you pour in the sealant. Rotate wheel 90° so that sealant pools at bottom where tyre is seated. Mount remaining but then pump like fuck. Then do the old wobbling and rotating of the wheel to sluice the sealant around.
imo, all tubeless rims should have a little ridge to keep the tyre bead seated, like in this image:
(https://amclassic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/550x550/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/u/hurricane_tubeless_rim_1.jpg)
some tubeless rims have flat shelves (which is not ideal) or worse - gently sloping shelves, in shape of a sine wave (like fulcrums, although they are marketed as tubeless compatible).
The new tyres would be on Hunt rims initially (4 season Gravel) though I thought I had heard of others putting tubeless on the Archetypes?
Has anyone any experience or comments about the merits of either?
The new tyres would be on Hunt rims initially (4 season Gravel) though I thought I had heard of others putting tubeless on the Archetypes?
Don't know what rims the Hunt gravel have. I know 'everyone' says Archetypes are tubeless compatible, and they may go up and stay up, but I'd be careful (actually I wouldn't use them tubeless and haven't bought any for that reason) as there is no real bead support in the event of deflation or side load. YMMV of course.
imo, all tubeless rims should have a little ridge to keep the tyre bead seated, like in this image:I thought that ridge was just a feature of the mavic UST rims
(https://amclassic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/550x550/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/u/hurricane_tubeless_rim_1.jpg)
some tubeless rims have flat shelves (which is not ideal) or worse - gently sloping shelves, in shape of a sine wave (like fulcrums, although they are marketed as tubeless compatible).
imo, all tubeless rims should have a little ridge to keep the tyre bead seated, like in this image:
The new tyres would be on Hunt rims initially (4 season Gravel) though I thought I had heard of others putting tubeless on the Archetypes?
I thought that ridge was just a feature of the mavic UST rims
Really? I've got 4 velocity a23s and they have the shelf but no lip . Ditto my old pair of stans 340sI thought that ridge was just a feature of the mavic UST rims
My three sets of tubeless compatible rims all have it (Kinlin XR31, Stans Alpha 340 and Velocity A23)
How wide does the rim tape need to be?
With my Vernier caliper, the internal width of the Grail rim comes up as a smidge over 20mm. I've ordered some Effeto Caffelatex rim tape in the 20.5mm size but taking the dip of the rim channel into account, I'm concerned that might not be wide enough. Does it need to go right to the edges for a good seal?
The rear wheel rim is slightly narrower, so the tape should be fine for that one at least.
How wide does the rim tape need to be?
With my Vernier caliper, the internal width of the Grail rim comes up as a smidge over 20mm. I've ordered some Effeto Caffelatex rim tape in the 20.5mm size but taking the dip of the rim channel into account, I'm concerned that might not be wide enough. Does it need to go right to the edges for a good seal?
The rear wheel rim is slightly narrower, so the tape should be fine for that one at least.
What's the panels thoughts on recommended accessories for the tubeless generation, both on and off bike?
Repair kits ? I've seen some reference to anchovies, I'm not a lover of fish but suspect these might be something else....
reinflation ? Mini-pump for on the road and spare tube (I sometimes wonder if tubeless is that good an idea!) or just a couple of CO2 canisters?
Tubeless on non-tubeless rims is going to drive me mad.
I've now got the front wheel working fine.
Gorilla tape combined with a Stans Rim strip and a load of sealant.
Rear wheel, the same but with less sealant because most of the bottle is on the floor after repeated attempts on the front wheel. Air pissing through the valve hole.
Specialized have a different definition of tricky to me
“The Cruzero wheels can be set up tubeless, but have been tricky for some people due to the pinned joint construction. Some suggestions that have proved helpful have been to use a good airtight tape with extra attention paid to the adhesion at the seam of the rim, use extra sealant than you normally would, use a compressor, inflate the rim holding the valve side up and the pinned joint down, and when inflating, shake the rim vigorously."
What's the panels thoughts on recommended accessories for the tubeless generation, both on and off bike?
Repair kits ? I've seen some reference to anchovies, I'm not a lover of fish but suspect these might be something else....
reinflation ? Mini-pump for on the road and spare tube (I sometimes wonder if tubeless is that good an idea!) or just a couple of CO2 canisters?
tyre levers? I think I saw something about needing to have some special none sharp levers?
Good to know tubeless is working for you Jibber. Interesting about the anchovies. Used one on the fat bike and worked fine. Took it out once home and repaired properly with a tubeless patch on the inside. No problem since then about 400km ago.
Hopefully the marathon supremes will be a good choice. A bit heavier than the ones but possibly a bit more hard wearing. Had a regular set previously on the commuter and they were my all time favourites. Lasted ages.
Interestingly the supremes use the same rubber as the ones. Will be interested to see how you get on.
Well 234km done yesterday on the Supremes with no mishaps.
I like them. A lot. Bike feels a bit more sprightly and they offer a really smooth ride. Seem to soak up more road buzz than previous tyres I've been riding. Recommended pressure on the side of the tyre is 60-80 psi so opted for 70 psi to start. Seems a pretty goof choice. May go a bit lower to see how that changes the ride. So far they are a really good choice. :thumbsup:
Good to know tubeless is working for you Jibber. Interesting about the anchovies. Used one on the fat bike and worked fine. Took it out once home and repaired properly with a tubeless patch on the inside. No problem since then about 400km ago.
Hopefully the marathon supremes will be a good choice. A bit heavier than the ones but possibly a bit more hard wearing. Had a regular set previously on the commuter and they were my all time favourites. Lasted ages.
I think the anchovy bit was in reference to tyres less than 30c but probably OK on MTB/FAT bike tyres I'd expect (lower pressures and all that)
Malcolm has posted a pretty good article recently (there is also a video in his latest news which is, umm, interesting) on living with tubeless.
https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres (https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres)
Malcolm is keen to convert the world to tubeless and considering the mileage, range of bikes and various type of riding he does I think he is a pretty good ambassador for the set up. He's the only reason I am still even marginally considering it as an option.
The info on CO2 and it's effect on the sealant is of special interest I expect.
Malcolm has posted a pretty good article recently (there is also a video in his latest news which is, umm, interesting) on living with tubeless.
https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres (https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres)
Malcolm is keen to convert the world to tubeless and considering the mileage, range of bikes and various type of riding he does I think he is a pretty good ambassador for the set up. He's the only reason I am still even marginally considering it as an option.
The info on CO2 and it's effect on the sealant is of special interest I expect.
Interesting . The sealant is in contact with air all the time as you pump up your tyre with air. So not convinced about this PH thing when it also meets air on the outside. I haven't carried spare tubes on my road bike for 2.5 years now. The superglue tip is a nice one though. Just need to get a puncture in my tyres after 3 and a bit years now.
So here's a thing. I've just built a set of wheels for my next off road project. Tyres installed and juiced up with stans. I have stans seeping through the rim joint. It does seal but if I apply pressure on the wheel it starts to leak. What to do? Thought about putting superglue along the joint to try and seal before I remount the tyre. Any other suggestions?
So here's a thing. I've just built a set of wheels for my next off road project. Tyres installed and juiced up with stans. I have stans seeping through the rim joint. It does seal but if I apply pressure on the wheel it starts to leak. What to do? Thought about putting superglue along the joint to try and seal before I remount the tyre. Any other suggestions?
... so feeling like I might needs something CO2 based as an insurance... (plus for LEL obvs...)Seems CO2 and tubeless sealants are not a good combination.
So who saw the ITV4 Chris Boardman piece recently about putting sealant in tyres? (and pondering why the pros don't do it).
Were they showing tubeless, or old-fashioned clinchers with sealant added?
So who saw the ITV4 Chris Boardman piece recently about putting sealant in tyres? (and pondering why the pros don't do it).
Were they showing tubeless, or old-fashioned clinchers with sealant added?
They were showing tubeless I think. He was pondering why it was that the pros wouldn't want that extra watt or two in return for such puncture resistance. I can think of a few reasons;
1) pros have spare wheels and spare bikes readily available. Once or twice a season, a handful of riders (with something to lose) run a risk of being genuinely delayed in a stage race by a puncture on a narrow road, because of poor race service.
2) it is probably a greater loss than most folk suppose, or that testing on rollers shows; in the real world (rather than on Crr testing rollers) the whole wheel is jiggling up and down over bumps and the losses are likely to be greater under these conditions.
3) the whole setup is appreciably heavier than with tubs
4) in the event of a flat (and you will still get them), tubs are a known evil, handling wise. Tubeless, not so much.
5)it runs contra to the ethos of 'marginal gains' prevalent in pro cycling these days.
You might just as well ask why it is that the pros don't add sealant to the tubs they use at present; it would work as well, pretty much, and would be a fair bit lighter (for any given strength etc).
Arguably you could make significant gains in bike reliability by ditching electric gears; since they were first adopted in the peloton, I don't think I've seen a major race where no-one had a 'duh, no gears' moment.
cheers
I'm taking the jump into tubeless for my new commuter, with some trepidation. Stan's Notubes sounds like a safe bet for the kit, but how do you decide which width tape to use? the rims are 25mm Hydra (http://hplusson.com/node/44) - does that mean 25mm tape is right? Should I try a 25mm strip of paper or summat?
I posted this on another thread, as I'm looking at tubeless
from another forum, but very interesting:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/maxxis-padrone-tubeless-242537.html (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/maxxis-padrone-tubeless-242537.html)
Currently using the OKO tractor stuff someone off here recommended diluted 2:1 (water:OKO), which makes it about 10%* of the cost of stans. Seems to be working so far (sealed the tyres fine, and one known saled puncture which was the reason for taking the tyre off to top up). Certainly looks like it needs diluting, it's the consistency of thick cream!
Has anyone tried tractor sealant watered down? it seems to be a thing on singletrack apparently.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OKO-TYRE-SEALANT-ANTI-PUNCTURE-OFF-ROAD-1250ML-STOP-PUNCTURES/182124416574?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&clk_rvr_id=1314272698092&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true
Water:sealant 2:1QuoteCurrently using the OKO tractor stuff someone off here recommended diluted 2:1 (water:OKO), which makes it about 10%* of the cost of stans. Seems to be working so far (sealed the tyres fine, and one known saled puncture which was the reason for taking the tyre off to top up). Certainly looks like it needs diluting, it's the consistency of thick cream!
Vittoria Adventure Trails is mentioned in this review of gravel bike tyres as "a fantastic dirt road touring tire, winter and training tire" and it's tubeless
http://www.roadbikereview.com/reviews/7-best-gravel-road-tires
Planet-X have them on special for eight quid (plus postage...but still)
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYVIADVT2/vittoria-adventure-trail-ii-tnt-tubeless-ready-700c-tyre
I'm running Schwalbe Ones. This morning I heard a rhythmic click click from the front. On arriving home I can see the flint embedded in the tread, right on the crown. No sign of sealant nor of pressure loss. Do I dig the flint out (bike on workstand and damage at the bottom to pool sealent just in case) or do I leave it be and see what happens...?
if the hole is a cut (i.e. not a pin hole) there is a high chance it will not seal at road tyre pressures. in that case a get-me-home solution can be a piece of duct tape (50-100cm) wrapped around both the rim and tyre over the cut. it will help to keep the air inside the tyre. rim brake has to be disengaged, obviously.
I've read enough posts on using glitter in diy sealant to believe that people are actually using it, but I've also read in the same threads that they are also using human hair, sawdust, ground up innertubes and other detritus in attempt to create their own sealant. I swear that if we'd only ever had tubeless tyres that the invention of the innertube would be hailed as a miracle of biblical proportions.
I've read enough posts on using glitter in diy sealant to believe that people are actually using it, but I've also read in the same threads that they are also using human hair, sawdust, ground up innertubes and other detritus in attempt to create their own sealant. I swear that if we'd only ever had tubeless tyres that the invention of the innertube would be hailed as a miracle of biblical proportions.
I've read enough posts on using glitter in diy sealant to believe that people are actually using it, but I've also read in the same threads that they are also using human hair, sawdust, ground up innertubes and other detritus in attempt to create their own sealant. I swear that if we'd only ever had tubeless tyres that the invention of the innertube would be hailed as a miracle of biblical proportions.
I reckon it's more like if contact lenses had been invented before glasses.Often you say things I don't understand and I assume it is your superior intelligence
I've read enough posts on using glitter in diy sealant to believe that people are actually using it, but I've also read in the same threads that they are also using human hair, sawdust, ground up innertubes and other detritus in attempt to create their own sealant. I swear that if we'd only ever had tubeless tyres that the invention of the innertube would be hailed as a miracle of biblical proportions.
Ho ho ho...
Every sealant I have ever used in over 150,000 kms of Audax has worked subject only to extremely nasty open wounds.....
The jest about the inner tube is as funny as saying that if we as a species lived on electricity generated from biological solar panels, the invention of assholes would be a miracle of biblical proportions, and we could henceforth eat cakes...
I reckon it's more like if contact lenses had been invented before glasses.Often you say things I don't understand and I assume it is your superior intelligence
i need to service my tubeless tyres as the sealant pooled up and dried out in one place unbalancing the wheels. searching for the options i've come across this product that looks promising, i'd be keen to try it out:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/frostbike-2018-finish-lines-new-sealant-that-never-dries-out (http://reviews.mtbr.com/frostbike-2018-finish-lines-new-sealant-that-never-dries-out)
which sealant are you using at present?
i need to service my tubeless tyres as the sealant pooled up and dried out in one place unbalancing the wheels. searching for the options i've come across this product that looks promising, i'd be keen to try it out:Have you found a supplier yet? I'm almost out of cafelatex so could experiment with this...
http://reviews.mtbr.com/frostbike-2018-finish-lines-new-sealant-that-never-dries-out (http://reviews.mtbr.com/frostbike-2018-finish-lines-new-sealant-that-never-dries-out)
i need to service my tubeless tyres as the sealant pooled up and dried out in one place unbalancing the wheels. searching for the options i've come across this product that looks promising, i'd be keen to try it out:Have you found a supplier yet? I'm almost out of cafelatex so could experiment with this...
http://reviews.mtbr.com/frostbike-2018-finish-lines-new-sealant-that-never-dries-out (http://reviews.mtbr.com/frostbike-2018-finish-lines-new-sealant-that-never-dries-out)
Speaking of sealant, are any of them non-slippery?
I’m thinking about what happens with a puncture at speed. Clinchers already give less control than tubulars in this scenario, and lubricating the inside of the tyre doesn’t sound like it would improve matters. With lubrication, the flat tyre would walk sideways uncontrollably as a constant supply of new tyre arrives with the rotating wheel. The fatter the tyre, the more walking could take place.
Tweets are offering it for ore-order for April delivery. Up to 1l.
https://www.tweekscycles.com/Product.do?method=view&n=3570&g=1464062&p=1463989&d=124&c=4&l=2&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Tyre%20Liners%20&%20Sealant&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIudzJu7Dn2QIVrZPtCh0itA1LEAQYASABEgIe7PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
As i have no clue about tubeless, this is the perfect place to ask if my mavic cosmic elite 23 clincher wheelset 2017 is tubeless friendly or not?
Can’t see anything that says UST so that’ll be a no.As i have no clue about tubeless, this is the perfect place to ask if my mavic cosmic elite 23 clincher wheelset 2017 is tubeless friendly or not?
Does it say "UST" on the rim? If so, yes, they're tubeless friendly. If it doesn't, they're not.
IIRC, the Cosmic Elite come in both a UST and non-UST version...
As i have no clue about tubeless, this is the perfect place to ask if my mavic cosmic elite 23 clincher wheelset 2017 is tubeless friendly or not?
TIA
Sefi
Can’t see anything that says UST so that’ll be a no.
UST are the magic letters as far as Mavic are concerned
UST are the magic letters as far as Mavic are concerned
To be fair, what the manufacturer says isn't always definitive - I've been using a set of Deda Zero2 wheels, which the supplier told me were tubeless compatible, so I fitted tubeless tyres and they worked a treat. But if you look on Deda's website, it clearly says they're not tubeless compatible... ???
Can’t see anything that says UST so that’ll be a no.
See upthread for my tale of woe trying to fit tubeless tyres to non-UST Mavic wheels...
(In my defence, I was led to believe they were UST wheels, but I didn't check properly before starting the job.)
I've just taken delivery of a set of ERE Research Omnia 28mm tubeless tyres - might have a go at fitting them ahead of the Man of Kent this weekend, assuming it's not snowed off...
https://www.ereresearch.com/tires/omnia
I used Orange sealant with very good results .... 3 punctures that I know of, and all 3 sealed. Then I rode over a broken bottle and got a long slash in my tire. It sealed at low pressure but I used a tyre worm which sorted it. Once home, I removed the tyre worm and used an old fashioned patch with the old vulcanised glue on the inside of the tyre. (With IRC tyres, this can be done)
Over the patch, I used a Park Tool tyre boot. It's worked, and the tyre keeps pressure and has held up well. When I refitted the tyre, I tried the new Slime STR Premium sealant. I read good reviews, but the 60ml that I added did not seal the sides of the tyres and I then added some Orange sealant, and it sealed and mounted properly with a track pump
so, I'm not sure if the Slime is better than the orange sealant, as I have not had another puncture yet, but it did not seal the tyre when I re-mounted it
I have a new commuter bike/training bike that I will use with tubeless (I will try Hutchinson Sector 28's first, trhen some Compass tyres), but on my fast bike, I will be going back to Specialized Turbo Cotton clinchers
Keep us updated on the Finish Line Sealant
Deflate it and unseat it, then pop it back and did fresh sealant. Pump up and shake / spin / bounce it about a bit.
Few inches of water in a bath, then roll the wheel/tyre combo around
Taping may not have been done as well as front.
Give the rear wheel a few spins in all directions to see if a bit of sealant needs to get to the small gap that may exist somewhere.
Tubeless sealant, is there a big difference between them or should I go with Schwalbe to match the tyres? Also, should I buy the small bottles because the sealant will dry out in the big bottle, or buy the big bottle because I will get through it eventually?
Tubeless sealant, is there a big difference between them or should I go with Schwalbe to match the tyres? Also, should I buy the small bottles because the sealant will dry out in the big bottle, or buy the big bottle because I will get through it eventually?
Tubeless sealant, is there a big difference between them or should I go with Schwalbe to match the tyres? Also, should I buy the small bottles because the sealant will dry out in the big bottle, or buy the big bottle because I will get through it eventually?
Stans is ok.
Orangeseal is reputed to seal larger holes.
The new (very expensive) Finish Line sealant has two massive advantages. It never dried out, so just replace if you puncture a few times, and unlike the others you can use CO2. (co2 causes other sealants to dry up)
Rim tape, is this *really* important or another case of rebadging for profit? PX sell "Jobsworth" 10m for £2-3, "Schwalbe" is selling for £18.
I've just taken delivery of a set of ERE Research Omnia 28mm tubeless tyres...
i've read somewhere that gorilla tape absorbs moisture and gets heavier and heavier when used in tubeless rims, also the sealant dries out quicker because of that.
I'm not convinced that Orangeseal Endurance stays liquid any longer than Stans...which is it's USP, but I think it does seem holes a bit better.You're right it doesn't. On a recent 300 my rear tyre suddenly went squishy. So I thought putting a blast of air in would help it re-seat but the air just kept escaping. When I took the tyre of to inspect the Orange Seal had formed into a ball about the size of a golf ball and it was that pushing on the sidewall of the tyre that was causing the air to escape.
I wouldn’t use Gorilla tape on road wheels, as it stretches into the spoke holes too much at road tyre pressures.
i've tried mavic tubeless tyres with their ust tape/rims and haven't had any problem either mounting the tyres or keeping the air in. could it be that the rim needs a ust tape of different width?
I have a litre of it. £40 :o
I think one needs to think carefully about it. If it's for an everyday bike then I'm not sure it makes sense, as it is likely you'll need to top up every 4 months anyway
unless you use really tough tyres.
It makes sense for really light tyres that get used for a few months only and are then put away.
(or really tough tyres that rarely puncture,)
They vary pretty hugely, Richard.
Schwalbe Ones are very flimsy compared to the likes of Hutchinson Sector. I've got through 2 sets of Ones in the same time as one set of Sectors, with similar mileage. I've got some Fusion 5 Galaktiks that are even thinner.
Hutchinson tubeless ones.
Obviously it's more labour intensive than anchovies, but I'm not keen on making a small hole bigger in order to effect a repair.
Hutchinson tubeless ones.
Obviously it's more labour intensive than anchovies, but I'm not keen on making a small hole bigger in order to effect a repair.
How would that help?
@Citoyen / Jiberjaber - I assume the tubeless valve was held into the rim with a retaining ring? If so, was it just finger tight, so as to allow you easily to remove it to fit a tube? I carry a tube but haven't yet had to use it in anger, but am a bit concerned I have the valve secured too tightly to allow easy removal :-\
@Citoyen / Jiberjaber - I assume the tubeless valve was held into the rim with a retaining ring? If so, was it just finger tight, so as to allow you easily to remove it to fit a tube? I carry a tube but haven't yet had to use it in anger, but am a bit concerned I have the valve secured too tightly to allow easy removal :-\
Experience of Mavic UST road tubeless.
I recently built some new wheels with Mavic Open Pro UST road rims.
Verdict.
They sell a special UST rim tape that stretches over rim and it not stuck down like the rest of road tubeless rim tape. I never got this to sit properly in the rim and it made trying to get the UST tyres on a bastard. It would not seal. I gave up with the rim tape after swearing a lot and skinning my thumbs trying to get tyres on.
Used a spare roll of Stans 21mm tape I had. Enough for both rims. The Stans rim tape was easy to apply to the rims with an internal diameter of 19c. The UST tyres now went on easily just using hands. The tyres inflated easily first time without soapy water or sealant, with just the pump I carry on bike. I repeated 7 times to check it was not a fluke. They seem to lock in place at about 20 psi. The recommended pressure on these width rims is only 54 psi for 28mm rubber, lower for 30mm etc. They roll nice and smooth and are comfy at these pressures. I added sealant later. The tyres are holding their original pressures after 48 hours.
So big thumbs up to UST road tyres and rims. Big thumbs down to their UST rim tape.
Experience of Mavic UST road tubeless.
I recently built some new wheels with Mavic Open Pro UST road rims.
Verdict.
They sell a special UST rim tape that stretches over rim and it not stuck down like the rest of road tubeless rim tape. I never got this to sit properly in the rim and it made trying to get the UST tyres on a bastard. It would not seal. I gave up with the rim tape after swearing a lot and skinning my thumbs trying to get tyres on.
Used a spare roll of Stans 21mm tape I had. Enough for both rims. The Stans rim tape was easy to apply to the rims with an internal diameter of 19c. The UST tyres now went on easily just using hands. The tyres inflated easily first time without soapy water or sealant, with just the pump I carry on bike. I repeated 7 times to check it was not a fluke. They seem to lock in place at about 20 psi. The recommended pressure on these width rims is only 54 psi for 28mm rubber, lower for 30mm etc. They roll nice and smooth and are comfy at these pressures. I added sealant later. The tyres are holding their original pressures after 48 hours.
So big thumbs up to UST road tyres and rims. Big thumbs down to their UST rim tape.
hi Phil, curious about this as I am having some sealing issues with those same rims.
Mine has got some rim 'tape' installed which is like rubber but it seems to overlap near the valve rather than be a single continuous strip - is that what yours was like?
And when you put the stans tape on did you have a rim 'strip' underneath the tape, or don't you need that? The stans website seems to allude that you do (https://www.notubes.com/stan-s-rim-tape-10yd-x-21mm)but not sure whether it's rim-dependent.
And did you end up using mavic valves or stans valves?
Thanks.
Next Q, I have heard contradictory opinions on whether a tubeless tyre "should" be able to hold air even without any sealant. Anyone care to cast a deciding vote?
Experience of Mavic UST road tubeless.
I recently built some new wheels with Mavic Open Pro UST road rims.
Verdict.
They sell a special UST rim tape that stretches over rim and it not stuck down like the rest of road tubeless rim tape. I never got this to sit properly in the rim and it made trying to get the UST tyres on a bastard. It would not seal. I gave up with the rim tape after swearing a lot and skinning my thumbs trying to get tyres on.
Used a spare roll of Stans 21mm tape I had. Enough for both rims. The Stans rim tape was easy to apply to the rims with an internal diameter of 19c. The UST tyres now went on easily just using hands. The tyres inflated easily first time without soapy water or sealant, with just the pump I carry on bike. I repeated 7 times to check it was not a fluke. They seem to lock in place at about 20 psi. The recommended pressure on these width rims is only 54 psi for 28mm rubber, lower for 30mm etc. They roll nice and smooth and are comfy at these pressures. I added sealant later. The tyres are holding their original pressures after 48 hours.
So big thumbs up to UST road tyres and rims. Big thumbs down to their UST rim tape.
hi Phil, curious about this as I am having some sealing issues with those same rims.
Mine has got some rim 'tape' installed which is like rubber but it seems to overlap near the valve rather than be a single continuous strip - is that what yours was like?
And when you put the stans tape on did you have a rim 'strip' underneath the tape, or don't you need that? The stans website seems to allude that you do (https://www.notubes.com/stan-s-rim-tape-10yd-x-21mm)but not sure whether it's rim-dependent.
And did you end up using mavic valves or stans valves?
I see no point whatsoever in using tubeless tyres without sealant.
Thanks.
Next Q, I have heard contradictory opinions on whether a tubeless tyre "should" be able to hold air even without any sealant. Anyone care to cast a deciding vote?
It just depends. If the wheel is true, the tape good, the tyre correctly moulded then yes. But meanwhile in the real world all stuff has little imperfections. The sealant can deal with those tiny difficulties. Usually (when i've tried it) one of the tyres inflates to a good pressure without sealant and the other one doesn't. More careful people than myself may have a higher success rate than 50%
In other words, is there a minimum standard of air retention without sealant that I should be looking for before I decide the build quality of the system as a whole is good enough to put into service, and thus before I bother adding sealant?
Got these mavic rims currently with stans tape applied to them - currently don't hold air without sealant for more than a couple of seconds - just gushes straight out again. As far as I can tell I've applied the tape correctly - pulled taut, pushed into the well, no air bubbles, twice round with 6" overlap.
I was kind of expecting/hoping that they might hold air for a few hours without sealant but go soft overnight but not straight down like they are doing.
Going to run tubes on this bike for now till I decide how to proceed - not least because I think that if it works, it might be the case that the stability of the system starts off poor but improves as the sealant 'beds in' and it might take a few rides for it to find its way into all the nooks and crannies.
Just looked up the Galactiks - RRP is £59.99, so it sounds like you got an excellent deal there.
I've got a big bottle of stans going for the price of postage if anyone wants it - prefer the orange seal endurance as it seems to seal quicker at higher pressures.
Has anyone experienced problems using the latex sealants and CO2?
I've got a big bottle of stans going for the price of postage if anyone wants it - prefer the orange seal endurance as it seems to seal quicker at higher pressures.
May I have it please?
Meet up and buy you a pint or two?
I've got a big bottle of stans going for the price of postage if anyone wants it - prefer the orange seal endurance as it seems to seal quicker at higher pressures.
May I have it please?
Meet up and buy you a pint or two?
Damn!
Forgive me for being thick here because this has probably been asked before possibly even by me but I have either forgotten or didn't understand the answer. But:
In simple terms, why do more people not use tubeless sealant but in tubes? One of the benefits of using tubeless is touted as better puncture protection. But the bit I don't get is why this is a benefit of tubeless, rather than a benefit of 'having sealant'.
Is there some physical reason why sealant won't seal a tube as well as it will a tyre?
When I say 'sealant' I'm talking about actual tubeless tyre liquid sealant, not that green slime stuff.
Hypothetically if say I wanted the reliable fitting experience of tubes without it losing air until it's "bedded in", but also wanted the puncture protection of 'tubeless' (or, of 'sealant'), can I have the best of both worlds here?
Forgive me for being thick here because this has probably been asked before possibly even by me but I have either forgotten or didn't understand the answer. But:
In simple terms, why do more people not use tubeless sealant but in tubes? One of the benefits of using tubeless is touted as better puncture protection. But the bit I don't get is why this is a benefit of tubeless, rather than a benefit of 'having sealant'.
Is there some physical reason why sealant won't seal a tube as well as it will a tyre?
When I say 'sealant' I'm talking about actual tubeless tyre liquid sealant, not that green slime stuff.
Hypothetically if say I wanted the reliable fitting experience of tubes without it losing air until it's "bedded in", but also wanted the puncture protection of 'tubeless' (or, of 'sealant'), can I have the best of both worlds here?
In simple terms, why do more people not use tubeless sealant but in tubes? One of the benefits of using tubeless is touted as better puncture protection. But the bit I don't get is why this is a benefit of tubeless, rather than a benefit of 'having sealant'.Sealant generally doesn't work so well in tubes because the holes are typically bigger.
Is there some physical reason why sealant won't seal a tube as well as it will a tyre?
I've moved to the Finish Line as it's advertised as CO2 friendly and it doesn't dry out so no regular messy replacement Has anyone experienced problems using the latex sealants and CO2? I've always used CO2 to do the initial inflation of my tubeless tyres (those I couldn't get to pop with the track pump anyway) and I never noticed an issue with the Stans sealant, it always stayed liquid for several months.
I'm not sure I'd want to put 200psi into my tyres, with a marked max of 7barg, or around 105psi.
Doh - of course the pressure is less in the (greater volume) of the tyre :hand: ::-).
Boyle's Law, innit.
Boyle's Law, innit.
Avoid Milkit - great idea, poorly executed and quite expensive. The long pokey bit which pushes through the rubber valve bit falls off over time ( < 1 year!!) making the thing a bit redundant and harder to put air in.
Finish Line sealant=shite.
Do not buy.
great to see new conti gp5000 released in tubeless version, and also available in 32mm width (along with 25 and 28mm). looks like a perfect tyre for the pbp next year.
I have recently come over to tubeless, despite some concerns, which have thus far all turned out to have been misplaced. I've mounted Hutchinson Sector 32's on Pacenti Forza rims. Easily got them on by hand and seated first time with a blast of CO2. Stans valves and sealant, for the record.
I love how they feel on my new bike (Reilly Gradient) and am riding a 300 next week to test them out properly.
I assume it’s slower than the regular clincher with a latex tube because of the way the two tyres are constructed.This is rather the problem... Why assume? Might be better to find out from those who've used both tyres or wait for reliable test figures.
I've also heard that various manufacturers – not just Continental – routinely call 3 plies of 60tpi 180tpi (etc).
I assume it’s slower than the regular clincher with a latex tube because of the way the two tyres are constructed.This is rather the problem... Why assume? Might be better to find out from those who've used both tyres or wait for reliable test figures.
There's not much more to tell. I've simply read it as a general warning/advice, that for some manufacturers "120tpi" means "120tpi in each ply" and for others it means "120tpi in total, divide by number of plys to find tpi per ply". It's never (that I've seen) been linked to any named manufacturer, but I have a feeling Vittoria do it, for instance. In fact, I wonder if most do. That said, my impression from using both on the same bike is that Vittoria Rubino roll better than Continental GP4Seasons. But that's irrelevant to this thread as neither are tubeless.I've also heard that various manufacturers – not just Continental – routinely call 3 plies of 60tpi 180tpi (etc).
Tell us more.
I don't know about your past! But admittedly you did give reasoning and state clearly it's not based on experience or data, so it's not actually misleading.I assume it’s slower than the regular clincher with a latex tube because of the way the two tyres are constructed.This is rather the problem... Why assume? Might be better to find out from those who've used both tyres or wait for reliable test figures.
Because speculation is fun! I hope it’s obvious from my past that if facts emerge to cast doubt on my assumption I will adjust it cheerfully.
Why is 3 layers of 110 tpi not as good as one layer of 330 tpi?
The strands presumably don't all line up.
If a thorn manages to get between the strands of one layer, it might get caught on a strand in the next layer.
Why is 3 layers of 110 tpi not as good as one layer of 330 tpi?
The strands presumably don't all line up.
If a thorn manages to get between the strands of one layer, it might get caught on a strand in the next layer.
High tpi counts indicate very thin and flexible threads, which leads to a carcass that is softer and with less hysteresis. Consequently, the the tyre is likely to be more comfortable and have lower rolling resistance.
Why is 3 layers of 110 tpi not as good as one layer of 330 tpi?
The strands presumably don't all line up.
If a thorn manages to get between the strands of one layer, it might get caught on a strand in the next layer.
High tpi counts indicate very thin and flexible threads, which leads to a carcass that is softer and with less hysteresis. Consequently, the the tyre is likely to be more comfortable and have lower rolling resistance.
So surely 3 layers of 110tpi is the best of both worlds.... it seems to be being argued above (not by you) that claiming 330 tpi when it is in fact 3x110 is somehow "cheating"... :-\
yeah but better or worse?More supple.
We've now lost two more members as a result of this thread.
What's going tubular, then? That must be like wearing long johns and trousers, sewn together at the waist and the ankles. All very secure until you need to address a leak.
Three plys of 110TPI layered will be stiffer than a single thickness ply of 330TPI.
You pay good money for that in Soho.
To get back on track. I was seduced by the claims of finish line Kevlar sealant. I put it into two new tyres on rims that were designed for tubeless. The rear tyre has stayed up but the front has deflated on 5 successive days despite in excess of 100km and multiple re inflations to 100psi.
I will be using stans in future.
To get back on track. I was seduced by the claims of finish line Kevlar sealant. I put it into two new tyres on rims that were designed for tubeless. The rear tyre has stayed up but the front has deflated on 5 successive days despite in excess of 100km and multiple re inflations to 100psi.
I will be using stans in future.
Had the same experiance. On paper it sounds like it should be great but in practice the liquid bit just doesnt seem to want to "cure" properly and make the seal. Maybe they had to make it thinner to carry the carbon fibre without turning to porridge, I don't know. Whatever it is, it doesnt work.
i haven't had this problem yet, but it can happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYBM-WCAcsE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYBM-WCAcsE)
Good bits from the video was showing how easy it was to remove the tyre with his hands.
Specific question (probably for mike) what size valves do I need? I have Kinlin XR22Ts. Should it be depth (~22mm) + a couple cm? (I'm guessing 55mm would do as that gives me enough space for pump and knuts to hold it in place).
Better to do this at home, at your convenience, in the warm and dry...
To get back on track. I was seduced by the claims of finish line Kevlar sealant. I put it into two new tyres on rims that were designed for tubeless. The rear tyre has stayed up but the front has deflated on 5 successive days despite in excess of 100km and multiple re inflations to 100psi.
I will be using stans in future.
Had the same experiance. On paper it sounds like it should be great but in practice the liquid bit just doesnt seem to want to "cure" properly and make the seal. Maybe they had to make it thinner to carry the carbon fibre without turning to porridge, I don't know. Whatever it is, it doesnt work.
My initial experience was similar, with lots of leakage around the bead and overnight deflation, but once I'd gone out for a couple of 25mile + rides it all sealed up nicely, and retains pressure as well as the tyres I've used Doc Blue on.
I've yet to have a puncture tho, so have no idea of the level of performance there. I may top up that pair of tyres to make up for the initial losses.
Has anyone tried flying with tubeless tyres? Any issues to be be aware of?Unless you get a hand inspection by someone who insists you should completely deflate your tyres you're fine. (I always let a little air out so I can declare in all honesty that yes, I did deflate my tyres ;D) If you deflate the tyre to the point that the bead comes loose from the lip of the rim you're SOL unless you bring a compressor.
Has anyone tried flying with tubeless tyres? Any issues to be be aware of?
J
To get back on track. I was seduced by the claims of finish line Kevlar sealant. I put it into two new tyres on rims that were designed for tubeless. The rear tyre has stayed up but the front has deflated on 5 successive days despite in excess of 100km and multiple re inflations to 100psi.
I will be using stans in future.
Had the same experiance. On paper it sounds like it should be great but in practice the liquid bit just doesnt seem to want to "cure" properly and make the seal. Maybe they had to make it thinner to carry the carbon fibre without turning to porridge, I don't know. Whatever it is, it doesnt work.
My initial experience was similar, with lots of leakage around the bead and overnight deflation, but once I'd gone out for a couple of 25mile + rides it all sealed up nicely, and retains pressure as well as the tyres I've used Doc Blue on.
I've yet to have a puncture tho, so have no idea of the level of performance there. I may top up that pair of tyres to make up for the initial losses.
Well an update. Left to their own devices (ie in the shed untouched) the tyres with Finish Line in continue to deflate, one at an almost acceptable rate, the other most definitely not, with leakage around the rim as evidenced by escaping moisture. It might be a tyre bead issue, as the rims were previously used successfully with a different tyre.
Anyway, after some thought, I've decided to revert to latex (or in my case pseudo latex Caffelatex) sealant. And I'm switching tyres to Fusion 5 All Seasons.
Has anyone tried flying with tubeless tyres? Any issues to be be aware of?
J
Cheers. Am trying to work out what to run on the TCR (and how to get there)
J
I have only put my bike on 3 planes (all BA), but one handler (a very thorough German) did go for hand inspection, and wouldn't be fooled by my fairly-flat tyres*, thus wasting more of my time :(Has anyone tried flying with tubeless tyres? Any issues to be be aware of?Unless you get a hand inspection by someone who insists you should completely deflate your tyres you're fine. (I always let a little air out so I can declare in all honesty that yes, I did deflate my tyres ;D) If you deflate the tyre to the point that the bead comes loose from the lip of the rim you're SOL unless you bring a compressor.
This is good guide to flying and covers what has been discussed here: https://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-library/bikes-public-transport/bikes-air
On a different topic, got an old wheel out yesterday, and could not get the tyre off on one side (S-One + Pancenti SL23), try as hard as I could - ended up cutting it off as was a worn out tyre, but is there a trick to unseating recalcitrant beads? Felt like the sealant had effectively glued it to the rim.
This is good guide to flying and covers what has been discussed here: https://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-library/bikes-public-transport/bikes-air
On a different topic, got an old wheel out yesterday, and could not get the tyre off on one side (S-One + Pancenti SL23), try as hard as I could - ended up cutting it off as was a worn out tyre, but is there a trick to unseating recalcitrant beads? Felt like the sealant had effectively glued it to the rim.
Interesting. I ran S-Ones on SL25’s for 18 months and had no trouble unseating the bead by hand. Maybe it depends on how much sealant gets around the bead initially? I always seat the tyres first using a soapy spray, then add sealant through the valve.
ok tubeless update
I got some specialized 2bliss tyres. They are 31mm, flexible, pretty much slick, Specialized compound. On the invoice they were described as
Specialized
Black
Roubaix Pro 2Bliss Ready Clincher Tyre (Tubeless)
So the first thing I did was try to fit them to my wheels on the best bike which are Velocity Ailerons. These have worked fine with Vittoria Adventure II tubeless and Schwalbe S-One tubeless. However, the 2bliss tyres did not want to inflate. I tried them with a tube inside to stretch them a bit but this didn't help. After a couple of unrewarding afternoons with sealant spraying about I gave up
Today I had another go. I put them on a spare wheel ( Fulcrum DB Sport ) and they worked straight away. I had to use sealant but I think that was leakage around the valve - these wheels hadn't been tubeless before, it was a new valve
In other news I also have some of the new continental 5000 tyres on order and some Pacenti rims
I'm going to try to do the tubeless shuffle again tomorrow morning with a few added layers of rim tape. Wish me luck YACF.
10-20 psi lost overnight first night. Topped up sealant and pumped back up to 80psi. 3-5psi drop last night groovy.
Going for a ride shortly. Will take spare tubes with me. Need to invest in some tubeless puncture repair stuff.
My advice, based on 3 years use would be to use Orangeseal endurance sealant, and carry patches to glue on inside of tyre in case of non-sealing puncture. Never got on with those anchovy things.
good article on road.cc
https://road.cc/content/feature/257746-what-they-dont-tell-you-about-tubeless
Which worms have you found best?
CO2 blast did it
CO2 blast did it
I heard that it’s better not to use CO2 canisters with tubeless, because it ruins the sealant.
Evening all. I've just been looking at my rear Hutchinson Fusion 5 and found at least a dozen cuts in the 1-5mm range. I've definitely had three punctures which sealed, albeit after fairly significant sealant loss and goodness knows how many others that I never noticed.
My question is, is there a point at which you consider your tyres to have been compromised by so many nicks and cuts that it is time to swap it out? Do you just keep running it, provided it holds pressure?
Evening all. I've just been looking at my rear Hutchinson Fusion 5 and found at least a dozen cuts in the 1-5mm range. I've definitely had three punctures which sealed, albeit after fairly significant sealant loss and goodness knows how many others that I never noticed.
My question is, is there a point at which you consider your tyres to have been compromised by so many nicks and cuts that it is time to swap it out? Do you just keep running it, provided it holds pressure?
Does anyone clean out of dried sealant regularly or just leave to get all gooey and weblike?
I've had horizons on for 18 months now and just top it up. No problems but I was wondering if anyone else has a regular clean out and tyre inspect.
So it did fail. However this time I think it's because of holes in the tyres which I'd sustained when running tubes. They sealed up fine when installing and during a ride to a mates birthday yesterday but came apart during a proper ride today. Very annoying but what can you do. I could try again with some tubeless repair patches but tbh just can't be arsed any more. Might try again when/if I get round to buying a nicer set of wheels and new rubber.
Should I explore the world of tubeless, or just get myself some more tubes and live with the odd pinch flat? I'm not replacing the wheels - I don't know if that influences the decision.
I wrote an article for cycling weekly. On my website I expand further on tubeless technology. It's not brand specific but some brands that are useful solutions to problems often encountered are mentioned.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/tubeless-tyres-properly-406530/amp
(https://i.ibb.co/pxGJzJp/tubless-flow-chart-1024x1024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pxGJzJp)
I have yet to be stranded with tubeless anxd I have fixed some big holes albeit on a temporary basis that you could shove my thumb through comfortably. Most tyre plug repairs are for the lifd of the tyre. One thing to not not all plugs like everything tubeless are git for purpose. There is a big range in functionality in tubeless equipment which cause many of the issues tubeless user encounter.
However these failure are rare and no more common than on the tubed tyres I used to use.
Brinal read the article in cycling weekly or the expanded version on my website to find out why your tyres unseated with no air. Also carry plugs as you could have fixed the hole before it went flat.
I wrote an article for cycling weekly. On my website I expand further on tubeless technology. It's not brand specific but some brands that are useful solutions to problems often encountered are mentioned.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/tubeless-tyres-properly-406530/amp
(https://i.ibb.co/pxGJzJp/tubless-flow-chart-1024x1024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pxGJzJp)
I have yet to be stranded with tubeless anxd I have fixed some big holes albeit on a temporary basis that you could shove my thumb through comfortably. Most tyre plug repairs are for the lifd of the tyre. One thing to not not all plugs like everything tubeless are git for purpose. There is a big range in functionality in tubeless equipment which cause many of the issues tubeless user encounter.
However these failure are rare and no more common than on the tubed tyres I used to use.
Brinal read the article in cycling weekly or the expanded version on my website to find out why your tyres unseated with no air. Also carry plugs as you could have fixed the hole before it went flat.
"inject sealant through the core" doesn't work with orange seal. It's so efficient at blocking holes that it blocks the hole in the valve :)
I suppose it depends on your terrain. I raced a 26er at beastway the other week with tubes in and there weren't any dramas but that was sloppy and muddy terrain. Going on more rocky and flinty terrain it might be more worth the while.It was really dry and either quite long grass or rocks and dust this week. Who knows how it will be next week! :)
Stans=okOut of curiosity I decided to try and convert a pair of old Mavic Cross Ride 26" wheels to tubeless. My major concern was that these rims are pinned and I wasn't sure if the sealant would seal the joint exposed beyond the rim tape. I used about 60ml of Decathlon's own brand sealant which sealed the joint on the first wheel without so much as a dribble appearing under pressure, however the seal around the bead was not so good with tiny leaks around the whole circumference of the tyre. Given that the Decathlon sealant is pretty thick, I added 30ml of Stans to the tyre and voila the bead sealed instantly
Orange seal= a bit better
Finish Line= might as well use water.
I wrote an article for cycling weekly. On my website I expand further on tubeless technology. It's not brand specific but some brands that are useful solutions to problems often encountered are mentioned.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/tubeless-tyres-properly-406530/amp
(https://i.ibb.co/pxGJzJp/tubless-flow-chart-1024x1024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pxGJzJp)
I have yet to be stranded with tubeless anxd I have fixed some big holes albeit on a temporary basis that you could shove my thumb through comfortably. Most tyre plug repairs are for the lifd of the tyre. One thing to not not all plugs like everything tubeless are git for purpose. There is a big range in functionality in tubeless equipment which cause many of the issues tubeless user encounter.
However these failure are rare and no more common than on the tubed tyres I used to use.
Brinal read the article in cycling weekly or the expanded version on my website to find out why your tyres unseated with no air. Also carry plugs as you could have fixed the hole before it went flat.
rim joint should be covered by a rim tape - i.e. sealant should only be in contact with rim tape and inner tyre (and a tubeless valve)
rim joint should be covered by a rim tape - i.e. sealant should only be in contact with rim tape and inner tyre (and a tubeless valve)
But surely the rim tape doesn't and shouldn't extend into the hook of the rim? Yes, I guess in theory that the tyre bead should seal against the remaining exposed part of the joint but in my experiment it still left a void that Stan couldn't seal. Good news is that both tyres held pressure overnight and survived a test ride today :thumbsup:
I'm tubeless curious. :o
The aim is to get more grip and lighter weight on my 26" MTB that I'm using for 'cross. Current tyres are worn out (tubed) Continental Speed Kings.
Should I explore the world of tubeless, or just get myself some more tubes and live with the odd pinch flat? I'm not replacing the wheels - I don't know if that influences the decision.
I suspect if the container has air in it or there has been significant contact with air then the reaction will have started.
Fortunately not. The 33mm limit is for races under UCI regs. They also ban MTBs. ;)I'm tubeless curious. :o
The aim is to get more grip and lighter weight on my 26" MTB that I'm using for 'cross. Current tyres are worn out (tubed) Continental Speed Kings.
Should I explore the world of tubeless, or just get myself some more tubes and live with the odd pinch flat? I'm not replacing the wheels - I don't know if that influences the decision.
Do the MTB riders have a limit on their tyre width? (I'm guessing not ... but have never needed to check ... )
I'm thinking of scrounging a rear tubeless (rim-brake) wheel to try in the rest of this year's cross races.not at all. I've run my bike with one tubeless one clincher a few times, usually after a massive split in a tyre. Only thing I can think of is you might want to think about which tyre should have which tyre pressure. And also that the rear one will require more frequent topping up as tubeless tyres do lose a bit of air overnight
Are they are any practical irritations with running this, but with a clincher on the front?
p.s. DuncanM see you at the Oxon rounds??
DuncanM see you at the Oxon rounds??Probably. I rode the Newbury/Reading/Swindon races earlier in the series and then I hurt my knee. Hopefully I can ride Standlake/Dalton/Condors (maybe with my daughter in tow, though she's not been so enthusiastic this winter - it might be the mud!). I'll be at the Condor one whatever.
Lower pressure without damaging rims or losing air pressure in turns (burping).I thought tubeless originated in MTB where they ran equally low pressures. If so, what's the difference? Lack of tubulars for MTB?
What method does anyone else use to top up the sealant?
I thought I had found a quicker method than the syringe, which was to unhook one bead, pour a bit in, and then push it back on and re-inflate.
But I did that just now and it wouldn't reseat, even when I'd cleaned all the sealant out, and wiped it with soapy water.
It did seat however after I'd run it with a tube in for a bit, and then took the tube back out again.
I'm not sure it is wise to pop the bead to refill. When you initially set up the tyre some of the sealant is used to seal the bead. Seems a bit daft to break that seal.
What method does anyone else use to top up the sealant?
I thought I had found a quicker method than the syringe, which was to unhook one bead, pour a bit in, and then push it back on and re-inflate.
But I did that just now and it wouldn't reseat, even when I'd cleaned all the sealant out, and wiped it with soapy water.
It did seat however after I'd run it with a tube in for a bit, and then took the tube back out again.
I just take out the valve core and squirt sealant in with a little pointy bottle from Schwalbe, or a syringe. Then you can put a new valve core in at the same time. Doesn't take long and much easier than breaking the bead seal.
Just found out that I've been riding road tyres tubelessly that weren't tubeless compatible. Gulp...Stop instantly.
I'm not sure it is wise to pop the bead to refill. When you initially set up the tyre some of the sealant is used to seal the bead. Seems a bit daft to break that seal.
think that's probably it. You live and learn...What method does anyone else use to top up the sealant?
I thought I had found a quicker method than the syringe, which was to unhook one bead, pour a bit in, and then push it back on and re-inflate.
But I did that just now and it wouldn't reseat, even when I'd cleaned all the sealant out, and wiped it with soapy water.
It did seat however after I'd run it with a tube in for a bit, and then took the tube back out again.
I just take out the valve core and squirt sealant in with a little pointy bottle from Schwalbe, or a syringe. Then you can put a new valve core in at the same time. Doesn't take long and much easier than breaking the bead seal.
Interesting that you say you put a new valve core in, do you always put a new one in whenever you top up the sealant? Do you get a load of spares at once at the same time as getting new sealant?
I usually reuse the same one but the one on my front tyre's getting a bit stiff to undo now, possibly due to sealant making it a bit sticky.
Yes I've put tubes in. I might be selling some nearly-new 28mm gravel kings on here for a song in the near future. Great tyres but I really dig tubelessness.Ha! When I bought Gravel Kings, at least a year ago, I did the opposite: didn't realize until they arrived that they were tubeless compatible. Panaracer seem to do two versions and I'm not sure it's always made clear which you're getting. Anyway, I still haven't got around to setting them up tubeless, not even sure my rims are compatible. (And no we can't swap, mine are 40mm!)
Just found out that I've been riding road tyres tubelessly that weren't tubeless compatible. Gulp...If the non-tubeless tyres provided a secure fit on the rim and held pressure... what exactly are the risks?
Hmm, I’ve just gone round rim and tyre with a cloth.
Its an absolute no-brainer for winter. Summer, less so.
I got yet another side wall slice on a tubeless set up yesterday. There was no way that was fixable roadside, so I put an emergency boot in ( a five pound note that’s been hanging around before this virus stuff started). Put a tube in, and managed to get home. That’s 6 Irreparable failures from 6 tubeless tyres, in a year. I’m not using them anymore on my road bikes. I’ve still got them on the 29er, they work brilliantly on that bike, just not the road bike.
The failures have been on the Yksion Pro tubeless tyres that came with the Mavic wheels on my cheaper bikes, and one was a Vitorria Graphene on my XR4. The roads I tend to ride on are back roads / country lanes, and they are pretty horrendous for flints and thorns / bits of trees if the weather has been ‘interesting’. I’ve been using them at about 85 psi. I tried replacing the Yksion pros with Continental GP5000TLs, but they won’t go on the Mavic rims, no matter what I try. I checked that it was the tyres that were the problem by fitting another Yksion Pro, which went on with no bother at all, and I tried a non tubeless tyre with a tube, and that went on with no problem. So I’ve left that set up on the bike.I got yet another side wall slice on a tubeless set up yesterday. There was no way that was fixable roadside, so I put an emergency boot in ( a five pound note that’s been hanging around before this virus stuff started). Put a tube in, and managed to get home. That’s 6 Irreparable failures from 6 tubeless tyres, in a year. I’m not using them anymore on my road bikes. I’ve still got them on the 29er, they work brilliantly on that bike, just not the road bike.
I know you are just one person riding one particular set of roads but it would be nice to know which tyres you used that failed, what pressure etc etc
I've also been riding tubeless for a few years and I've had one failure like you describe in several years
Just think what would have happened if you hadn't been riding tubeless :o
Surely that is no worse than if you weren’t tubeless. Side wall damage seems to be very much a personal thing, some people seem to suffer often, others never.It’s about the same, the difference being putting a boot and tube in a tubes set up doesn’t make me look like an accident in a yoghurt factory. I’ve never had a problem with my MTB / Hybrid tubeless tyres though. I guess the MTB / off road tyres are more robust, and the added weight doesn’t matter.
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The only sidewall failure I've ever had was when I was 18 and it was entirely due to my teenage incompetence at aligning brake blocks. It would still have happened with tubeless, just taken a bit longer. Disc brakes would have avoided the problem entirely, but neither they nor tubeless were around back then (hub brakes were, of course).
Spin wheel to spread sealant. Leave overnight to check seal (unless obvious leaks).
Spin wheel to spread sealant. Leave overnight to check seal (unless obvious leaks).
I tend to find that you need to go for a ride to really do the job properly.
If I just spin the wheel after adding sealant but don't go for a ride, I'll come back the next day to find it deflated. Once I've been for a ride, it only deflates at the normal rate from then on.
Just me?
Maybe one of the Hutchinsons if you want to do some occasional gravel ?
I’m currently running a pair of wtb exposure tan wall on one bike. 30mm nominal - wider into 20mm internal rims. They ride nicely, seem fairly fast, and are wide enough for mild gravel and track use. Still losing air slowly, but overall positive. Probably gp5000 or pro1, but good useful tyres.They do look interesting, thanks. Not sure tanwalls would be right for this bike but they appear to be available in all black too...
Anyone got any recommendations for how to get a tight GP5000TL on to a Hope 20FIVE rim? This could be the first tyre/wheel combo in a lifetime of cycling that's defeated me.
Let it dry out completely - I hang mine up. It'll set to a rubbery consistency which can mostly be peeled off. Time consuming and a bit messy though.
Anyone got any recommendations for how to get a tight GP5000TL on to a Hope 20FIVE rim? This could be the first tyre/wheel combo in a lifetime of cycling that's defeated me.
Anyone got any recommendations for how to get a tight GP5000TL on to a Hope 20FIVE rim? This could be the first tyre/wheel combo in a lifetime of cycling that's defeated me.
have all the basics been done right? key ones being: the bead in the centre of the rim, tyre stretched/moved towards the valve, the part near the valve is mounted last.
Anyone got any recommendations for how to get a tight GP5000TL on to a Hope 20FIVE rim? This could be the first tyre/wheel combo in a lifetime of cycling that's defeated me.
have all the basics been done right? key ones being: the bead in the centre of the rim, tyre stretched/moved towards the valve, the part near the valve is mounted last.
Anyone got any recommendations for how to get a tight GP5000TL on to a Hope 20FIVE rim? This could be the first tyre/wheel combo in a lifetime of cycling that's defeated me.
Anyone got any recommendations for how to get a tight GP5000TL on to a Hope 20FIVE rim? This could be the first tyre/wheel combo in a lifetime of cycling that's defeated me.
Anyone got any recommendations for how to get a tight GP5000TL on to a Hope 20FIVE rim? This could be the first tyre/wheel combo in a lifetime of cycling that's defeated me.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/bbb-easy-tyre-fitting-tool-btl78/ (https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/bbb-easy-tyre-fitting-tool-btl78/)
I’d suggest a bit higher pressure to get the bead seated before trying anything else. Say 120psi.
It has probably been mentioned and mooted already numerous times but sometimes one layer of rim tape isn't enough, after adding a second layer of tape helped enable me to seat the tyre (Hutchison Fusion 5 all season 28c on a 21mm internal width rim) using a hand pump, and no soapy water or tyre levers.
I am giving my son a tubeless setup for Christmas BUT he likes tan wall tyres (I know :-\). Can the collective recommend a tan wall tubeless tyre for him? Road and some canal paths/minor trails.
I am giving my son a tubeless setup for Christmas BUT he likes tan wall tyres (I know :-\). Can the collective recommend a tan wall tubeless tyre for him? Road and some canal paths/minor trails.
I bought some OKO motorbike stuff from PX. It is really thick, but so far no issues, and it sealed a largish hole.
Just avoid Finish Line (if it is still available). It is useless
Apologies if this has answered before but is it ok to mix different brands of sealant? I’m thinking of when I have to top up the sealant in the tyre. Can I just add it or should I drain the sealant and start again if just topping up?
I tend to top up every 3 months, or a bit sooner if I am aware of a run of punctures. Don't care if there is more in there than there needs to be.
I dont think it matters it matters that much if you don't. Just stick a tube in...just like you would any other puncture*
*it is really nice to be able to say this now without invoking a wall of abusive language and be called a liar.
I wouldn’t discount that scenario. I have, in getting on for 20,000km, had two occasions to put in a tube. On one occasion I did suffer a slow puncture immediately and there was a pointy bit embedded, so for me currently it is 50%. That said having inspected tyres since then I have found none and I wonder if the lack of inner tube and highish pressure means sharp objects that puncture are blown out and my 50% is just unlucky.I tend to top up every 3 months, or a bit sooner if I am aware of a run of punctures. Don't care if there is more in there than there needs to be.
I dont think it matters it matters that much if you don't. Just stick a tube in...just like you would any other puncture*
*it is really nice to be able to say this now without invoking a wall of abusive language and be called a liar.
Ah no, you forgot about all the sharp objects from previously sealed punctures just lurking to pierce your tube! O:-)
I just carry a small bottle of sealant so my 3 monthly top ups are road side. It is far less hassle than changing a tube as you don’t need to take wheel off and balance bike etc. Valve out, top up, pump up and generally still haven’t caught my breath before I am on my way again.
I just carry a small bottle of sealant so my 3 monthly top ups are road side. It is far less hassle than changing a tube as you don’t need to take wheel off and balance bike etc. Valve out, top up, pump up and generally still haven’t caught my breath before I am on my way again.If you think about it for a moment, the sealant is designed to clag up holes. So inserting it down a narrow value doesn't seem like a good idea. I have done this but I used a syringe
Haven’t descended to the going through bins at audax events stage yet.
I bought a 10 pack of cores (and remove the cores before discarding tubes from other bikes). Haven’t descended to the going through bins at audax events stage yet.
The bottle I use is one of the small (60ml I think) ones which I then refill. It has a pointy nozzle that fits the valve with the core removed. I have never noticed any build up but would not expect to as the liquid is going in an orderly manner*. If not I might have to hit the pipe cleaner collection I bulk bought for blue peter projects a few decades back.
* Tubeless sealing depends on Non-British style queuing with all the little particles trying to get through the exit at once.
July 2019. I fitted a pair of Bontrager XR2 Team Issue tubeless tyres on the mtb, combined with Barbeiri Anaconda tyre liners (aka builders foam backer roads aka pool noodles), and Caffelatex Tubeless Rim Strip (along with a couple of turns around the rim with tessa tape to seal the spoke drillings)
Now I probably didn't need the tyre liner things, however since it's converted non tubeless wheels I'm running, probably safer to have the tyre liners on to stop any burping! Absolutely zero issues since then! I'm only just this evening stripping them out, to put fresh sealant in! :thumbsup: Granted, I haven't done a lot of cycling on the MTB since then (due to health issues from July 2020 onwards...)
:thumbsup:
Interesting as I have just given up on a pair of bontrager tyres. My wheels with the new bike are tubeless ready and the tyres were listed as tubeless. I put proper rim tape on and set them up as I have done every other time. They kept deflating. Changed for a set of Hutchinson sectors and they have been faultless. The tyres were clearly not tubeless!
Using tape can make your overall setup lighter, but it usually takes more effort to set up and doesn’t lock with the bead of the tire quite as well. Not all Bontrager wheels can be set up using tubeless tape, so be sure to check compatibility.
i would only dare riding such setup in non-demanding conditions (runabout bike, speeds up to 20kph on flat terrain). regarding the valve, i'd pack it out so it doesn't wobble/move in a larger hole, it shouldn't cause problems at low(ish) pressures.
Worth asking on an MTB forum I'd have thought. Bound to be people who have done it already.
My view on tubeless is that it is more hassle than it is worth if it is a bike you don't ride regularly because you do need to pump up the tyres every few weeks. If you leave them for a few months they can deflate, unseat and leak.
I'd say that if you are in doubt, then you already have your answer.
I'd say that if you are in doubt, then you already have your answer.+1
My view on tubeless is that it is more hassle than it is worth if it is a bike you don't ride regularly because you do need to pump up the tyres every few weeks. If you leave them for a few months they can deflate, unseat and leak.
I'd say that if you are in doubt, then you already have your answer.
No problem. I am still puzzled about my situation.Sounds a bit like my current situation. Pump up tyres and ride to work and back fine, but then deflate overnight and sometimes deflate when at work.
My view on tubeless is that it is more hassle than it is worth if it is a bike you don't ride regularly because you do need to pump up the tyres every few weeks. If you leave them for a few months they can deflate, unseat and leak.
I'd say that if you are in doubt, then you already have your answer.
No issue with my converted rims on my MTB after not using it for a few months due to health issues. Just more air in the tyres.
regarding air leakage, perhaps worth spraying some soapy water on the wheels?Be careful when using washing up liquid - it contains salt. Aluminium and salt don't get on! Submerging an aluminium rim in salt water never seemed like a good idea to me. Carbon rims should be OK unless they contain aluminium nipples (is it worth the risk?).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyok6z-e_nk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyok6z-e_nk)
even among the tyres of the same model there are inconsistencies how airtight they are. out of six (s-works tyres) in my case two are leaking, the rest can maintain pressure for a week or longer, even without any sealant in them.
it's long overdue for clear and understandable standards, so that you know what you are getting.
I have found that marking known punctures/damage with a paint marker helps (on all tyres). ...This is basically what I did. Used a bit of tubeless goo and wiped it on the sidewall - needs light shining on it to notice though.
With tubeless it gives the option of parking the wheel with the dominant puncture at the bottom at cafe stops etc when you remember.
i had to use tyre plugs yesterday, for the first time in 5+ years of running tubeless. the first cut was too large to seal and squirted almost all the sealant out of it after i removed a flint. another cut was smaller and kinda sealed, but still kept spraying on and off. when the tyre started to suddenly deflate in the train on the way home i plugged it too. the bike needs a good scrub now.
I assume that the metal spike used to lance the tire means that putting a tube in some time down the road is now a no no. Or is there a way of slicing off the spike from the inside and using a tube in a future drama?
Get a prong. Poke it down the valve hole (once you've removed the core. It's gunked up.Well that's marvellously simple, Double Huzzah!
Probably best to top it up as well.
I think it's about 3 years since I have been running tubeless and I will soon be running out of doc blue. What is the better option these days?Doc Blue is supplied to Schwalbe by Stans - it's written in the very small print on the large bottles.
There was some talk of some orange stuff that was better or lasted longer or saved unicorns from extinction or some such.
I am aware that doc blue is rebadged stands, I expect half the stuff is the same liquid latex rebadged.
There was some talk of some orange stuff that was better or lasted longer or saved unicorns from extinction or some such.
I am aware that doc blue is rebadged stands, I expect half the stuff is the same liquid latex rebadged.
I'm quite happy with the OKO magic milk from PlanetX - plus it's very cheap!
Been there, dome that. Which is why I'm recommending the dynaplug.
Tubeless valves.As simple as that? ::-)
also thinking of the recumbent which is a right PITA to do a roadside puncture repair on, can I convert any-old rim to tubeless by replacing the rim tape and using appropriate tyres?
also thinking of the recumbent which is a right PITA to do a roadside puncture repair on, can I convert any-old rim to tubeless by replacing the rim tape and using appropriate tyres?
Getting new tyres to form an initial seal and then "pop" over the ridges on tubeless rims is the biggest problem for most people/equipment. Wet or dry fit is debatable, but the sealant does act as a lube on initial fit, in my experience many tyres don't fully seat (pop) until 100 psi plus - then let them down a bit!
Learning what worms etc will/will not fix is worthwhile, carry a spare tube and tyre boot for the cuts that are not fixable (either operator error or simple reality), tyre boots made from bits of old tyres will bond with the latex compounds and fix the worst flint cuts I have seen but should only be used with a tube.
Tubeless tyre removal is always messy - latex sealant gets everywhere.
Valve cores do get clogged up with sealant, I keep the cores from knackered non tubeless tubes.
Running a tubeless set up on non tubeless rims is possible but without the ridges in the rims, when they lose pressure they will unseat the beads and be impossible to re seat with roadside inflation technology.
I abandoned tubeless and reverted to tubed, no regrets - I do have the compressors to make initial fitment easy (35cfm with 100litre reservoir), I just hated tyres that were always soft/flat and only stopped leaking about 30psi.
So my experience is very different to BFC’s. The other side of my experience is how instantly a tyre can completely demount from a rim when a latex tube splits. That’s not funny at speed.I have seen that happen (think it was an ordinary butyl tube). Rider stayed on, doing at least 20mph downhill, but scary to see. And I think Kim has form in this area...
Mike
So my experience is very different to BFC’s. The other side of my experience is how instantly a tyre can completely demount from a rim when a latex tube splits. That’s not funny at speed.I have seen that happen (think it was an ordinary butyl tube). Rider stayed on, doing at least 20mph downhill, but scary to see. And I think Kim has form in this area...
Mike
Presumably a dented rim is even more likely to immobilise tubeless wheels than tubed (though I guess you can always stick a tube in) but as I remember your tale, it was the rider that was most immobilised...
Presumably a dented rim is even more likely to immobilise tubeless wheels than tubed (though I guess you can always stick a tube in) but as I remember your tale, it was the rider that was most immobilised...
This stuff looks impressive
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/vittoria-air-liner (https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/vittoria-air-liner)
Impressed the tester.
I've removed the tube, installed the tubeless valve, refitted the tyre, pumped and – no. The bead is not reseating. I probably need one of those blastomatic air-chamber pumps. The tyre (Panaracer Gravelking) has always been quite floppy so it's not a big surprise.
Try this first - works most of the time for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rkbkjNvPdk&t=0s
My brain is melting from the range of tyes available. I'm looking for something in the 650b x 47 benchmark, usage being a summer tour on King Alfred's Way or similar conditions elsewhere, followed by droves and byways round here.I’ve got WTB byways, which have been fine for me on South Downs byways and lanes. But I’ve put them on and not tried anything different, so I hesitate to claim that they’re better than anything else.
Droves and byways being hard, gravelly, dusty in summer and slimy clay in winter. I tend to avoid the droves in winter as nothing maintains traction , but there are a few hard packed gravel sections that remain rideable, linked by tarmac.
I'm leaning towards Vittoria Terreno TNT's, any other suggestions? Also considered WTB Byways
I have gone off schwalbe G-0ne tubeless. Twice going on trips I have reduced the pressure in them and found that when I opened the BikeBox, the tyre had Twisted and pulled itself of the rim. It was as if the tyre had a sort of spiral structure. This left me having to put in a tube as the little pump I had with me was not sufficient to reseat the deformed tyre.
I have noticed with a set of continental GP5000TL that when unfolded they immediately relax into a circular tyre shape whereas all the others need a bit of encouragement and time in a warm place.
my tuppence.
So I've put the tube back in that tyre. Having tubed front and tubeless rear feels a bit weird and is in some ways worst of all worlds; I now need to carry spare tube and worms! When these tyres wear out, I might try again with something brand new.
I successfully converted my rear wheel to tubeless a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't easy as the tyre was old, it took a lot of sealant to fill up all the microscopic perforations, but eventually it worked. I started with the rear because the impetus to switch was a series of back-wheel punctures a few weeks ago.
But the front was not so easy. Eventually I gave up and took it to the LBS. And it exploded on him.
The tyre – Panaracer Gravel King(!) – had always been very floppy. It just burst off the rim. Remember that (in)famous Jan Heine photo of sealant all over bike and rider with a tyre blown off the rim? It was like that. Even on the ceiling of the shop. I have seen it. In fact, the force of the tyre blowing off the rim even broke the valve (probably the bead hit it).
So I've put the tube back in that tyre. Having tubed front and tubeless rear feels a bit weird and is in some ways worst of all worlds; I now need to carry spare tube and worms! When these tyres wear out, I might try again with something brand new.
Gravelking, blew off rim whilst sat in kitchen.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220513/b56b33fec8680b55c82e67bba5418dd3.jpg)Check the rim isn't distorted after any blowout/bead failure.
Gravelking, blew off rim whilst sat in kitchen.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220513/b56b33fec8680b55c82e67bba5418dd3.jpg)
Nothing wrong with the rim, the tyre just got baggier and popped off, glad I wasn't riding it at the time!Gravelking, blew off rim whilst sat in kitchen.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220513/b56b33fec8680b55c82e67bba5418dd3.jpg)Check the rim isn't distorted after any blowout/bead failure.
I noticed a big blister in my front tyre today.
To touch it's like a big squidgy, puss filled zit!
I noticed a big blister in my front tyre today. Not sure how long it's been there. I only noticed it as I was cleaning the bike.
Anyway, this is what it looks like:
(https://www.zaribor.co.uk/raz/pics/tyre/1.jpg)
(https://www.zaribor.co.uk/raz/pics/tyre/2.jpg)
To touch it's like a big squidgy, puss filled zit! Is it going to explode if I ride it? I'm assuming the safest course of action is a new tyre. It's a Hutchinson Fusion 5 All Season 11Storm....
Back to the Gravel Kings – they are very floppy and that seems to be the problem. Mind you, the rear seems to be seated okay on an identical rim. I hadn't considered distortion to the rim but while riding yesterday I could see the front wheel now needs truing; nothing too serious just a bit of wibble.
However, the back, which is tubeless, went fairly soft about three quarters of the way through the ride. I'd done 50 or 60 miles and it had been fine, then felt soft. No visible puncture or sealant on the outside. I put some more air in, after which it was fine – just been out to check it this morning and it seems to be holding pressure overnight – but as I took the cap off, I saw the valve nut was undone! I think it had probably come undone as I took the cap off, but it's possible I had failed to do it up after pumping the tyres up that morning. I'm really not sure what the effect would be of riding with an loose valve nut, as you need to depress the core to release air – so theoretically nothing should happen. ???
Expecting a lot of struggle from the apocalyptic tales of non-seating tyres, I was pleasantly surprised that (once I'd sorted out my pump, and stopped it buggering about sending the air to the wrong place) the tyres seated first time, with a few pops as the beads settled out and they are holding pressure quite happily so far with no sealant as yet.
(https://i.imgur.com/19u1Nvv.jpg)
I have Gravelkings but haven’t had the nerve to make the jump to tubeless. How would that compare to the number of punctures you might have expected in 1400km on tubed tyres?
I don't think it would make a difference to the number of punctures, just to the degree of inconvenience.
Sorry if I have missed this elsewhere. Any suggestions for getting tubeless sealant off a steel frame? Took mudguards off for the summer. Have had a couple of incidents that have sprayed sealant everywhere (Muc off sealant). I can scrape it off the down tube but it is a pain in the rear around the bottom bracket and other places. I asked LBS and they suggested disk brake cleaner. I notice that there is sealant remover for tyres, would that do the trick?
What is really gripping me is that it is a white frame and the dried on sealant makes it look really grubby :-X
Thanks in advance.
I was in Mr Sainsbury's Emporium of Toothy Comestibles this afternoon, and discovered that tubeless bogroll is now a thing. This confused me for far too long.
I was in Mr Sainsbury's Emporium of Toothy Comestibles this afternoon, and discovered that tubeless bogroll is now a thing. This confused me for far too long.
So I have been having visitations, not something I am used to. Tyres are Panaracer Gravel King Slick TLC. I am running them tubed, with normal butyl tubes.
It has occurred to me that I might be better off running them tubeless. Today’s visitation was courtesy of a tiny piece of glass that I was fortunate to find and it would surely have been handled by sealant.
However, I read that this tyre not considered great on some rims for tubeless purposes, so not keen to make this my first tubeless venture. The tyres do go on rather easily, without tyre levers, and I can remove them without levers too if I unseat both sides.
Having said that when I was putting the bike together I experimented, since the rims were already taped, and the tyres seated first time using CO2 and stayed up for several hours anyway without sealant.
Any experiences with these particular tyres? I occasionally read comments along the lines of “yes, they are a light tyre, and the reason you are getting so many visits is because you have tubes which the tyres are not robust enough to protect. They are meant to be run tubeless, so that sealant can do its hole-fixing work”.
https://www.panaracer.co.uk/shop-c1/tyres-c34/gravel-tyres-c2/panaracer-gravel-king-slick-tlc-folding-tyre-p48
Mucoff have a really well designed pouch which fits over the valve making filling really easy and clean plus I like their valves. But they are expensive.
Thanks Ian H.Top-up probably every couple of months or so. The rims I am using have a slight lip either side of the well which helps to locate the tyre. Also they are 38mm and fairly low pressure (50psi).
Is it not undesirable for tyres to be easy to get on and off in a tubeless set-up, a sign that that they are not seating as well as they should?
How often are you needing to top up, and is the sealant drying up or being lost in between times? If the latter, are you having to clean up much mess from the bike?
Every time I go to look at my MTB, the rear tyre has deflated, and become unseated.
Top-up probably every couple of months or so. The rims I am using have a slight lip either side of the well which helps to locate the tyre. Also they are 38mm and fairly low pressure (50psi).
Every time I go to look at my MTB, the rear tyre has deflated, and become unseated.
Interesting that it is only the rear. Perhaps some distortion in the bead?
To be honest, for my very occasionally used MTB, I'm thinking of going back to tubes
Having spent some time on this I just don't think there is a clear winner. The only one that seems to be fairly consistently poorly rated is the Lifeline one. However, the quality of testing seems poor and there are virtually no long term tests.Okay, so maximise the L/£ of purchase then.
Having spent some time on this I just don't think there is a clear winner. The only one that seems to be fairly consistently poorly rated is the Lifeline one. However, the quality of testing seems poor and there are virtually no long term tests.Okay, so maximise the L/£ of purchase then.
To be honest, for my very occasionally used MTB, I'm thinking of going back to tubes
I've resisted trying tubeless on my MTB for this reason, even though the immunity to snakebites would give it a real advantage. I just don't ride it regularly enough to be worthwhile.
I've never been particularly convinced by sealant in tubes, but I'm capable of repairing punctures, and sealant spaffing everywhere tends to wreck your chances of a successful patch. If you're not going to attempt a repair at the roadside, sealant might be worth it.
It certainly seems to work better at MTB pressures.
For me, tyres going flat in storage isn't a concern- as long as they go up and stay up when you're riding?
I don't ride any of my real bikes often enough, and it's easy enough to get out the track pump before I ride..
I wouldn't unseat it.
ANyone know of any 650b tubeless ready tyres of the less knobbly variety ( of about 32-35mm diameter
ANyone know of any 650b tubeless ready tyres of the less knobbly variety ( of about 32-35mm diameter
GP5000 is available in tubeless 32mm for 650b. Schwalbe G-One Allround is slightly knobby in 35mm.
Orangeseal ENDURANCE. There are 2 types of OS IIRC.
Yes, I have used it and it is decent stuff. But in all honesty, after 7 years of using various sealants I've got to the point where I don't care too much about what goes in as long as it isn't FINISH LINE which is about as effective a sealant as water.
I think I've got STANS in the aut/winter/spring roadbike, and OKO motorcycle gloop in the gravel bike. Like I said, I think that is what is in there, but I'm not sure because I don't really care
ANyone know of any 650b tubeless ready tyres of the less knobbly variety ( of about 32-35mm diameter
GP5000 is available in tubeless 32mm for 650b. Schwalbe G-One Allround is slightly knobby in 35mm.
https://schwalbe.com/en/gravel-reader/schwalbe-g-one-allround suggests all sizes & versions are TLE (tubeless ready). My 700x35s certainly are, it's printed on them....ANyone know of any 650b tubeless ready tyres of the less knobbly variety ( of about 32-35mm diameter
GP5000 is available in tubeless 32mm for 650b. Schwalbe G-One Allround is slightly knobby in 35mm.
Looking online, I is confused, I think I've looked at the Schwalbe before, but they seem to have two versions, one of which is tubeless ready, the other is not. The 35mm seems to be in the not camp.
I'm looking at 650b's seem to be different, there are two variants evolution, or performanceMine are performance. The evo & performance variants (in 650B and 700C, all widths) are all tubeless, at least the current on-sale versions. If in doubt, check the HS number of what you're looking at & ask Schwalbe. I'm not sure if any of the older G-one models were sold non-tubeless, but I don't think so, test reports always seemed to run tubeless.
https://www.schwalbe.com/en/gravel-reader/schwalbe-g-one-allround (https://www.schwalbe.com/en/gravel-reader/schwalbe-g-one-allround)
Unclear which is tubeless if you lookat merchants, Merlin, for example has the performance as non-tubeless
Having now witnessed a couple of “episodes” on others' bikes - one quick successful seal, one requiring a rasher - I am leaning towards tubeless for the gravel bike in addition to the General Purpose Bicycle.
I think the benefits of being able to stop or repair a puncture with the wheel still in the bike are much greater on gravel rides, rear wheel particularly. Invariably deflations will occur when the bike is covered in shite and in awkward spots that will only add to the mess.
all good for a few days.
That is until I get a flat
I did wonder if it was the tape, it just seems to be sat at the bottom and not up the sides (as such).
Did think it may need to go round twice slightly to one side then the other. The tape is the same width as the rim when putting it on and doesn't go up the side at all.
Tape is Muc-off and supposed to be the correct size for the rim, tyre is Panaracer Gravelking SK TLC
It doesn't seem as pliable as the tape in your picture, it's more like Sellotape.
1st time was a puncture the 2nd just seemed to go down after a few days. Both times it has then leaked sealant from around the rim.
The tyre stayed pumped up overnight without sealant when I 1st inflated it.
Panaracer Gravelking SK TLC
How does the rim tape fit across the rim bed? It should be like the top part of this image:
(https://support.enve.com/hc/article_attachments/360073318772/Screenshot_2020-10-20_143741.jpg)
The edge of the tyre and the tape come into contact in such a way that the sealant doesn’t actually contact the rim itself.
He should have had a dart plug, like dynaplug. Costly, but does the job.I didn't have experience of the set-up to suggest it.
Not that much difference, really.
My kit nowadays consists of small bottle of sealant, plug tool, levers & tube (compare with two tubes, levers, patches & solvent, for tubed tyres)
The difference is...it almost never gets used ;)
That is true. Although regular maintenance of both those things will help.
Watch your back if you are going to be hunched over your tubing
The difference is...it almost never gets used ;)I offered a spare tube to my friend and then used my pump* to inflate his tyre. I also used
The difference is...it almost never gets used ;)I offered a spare tube to my friend and then used my pump* to inflate his tyre. I also used
my pump on the the tyre of a Gloucester CC rider, who had punctured right next to where we
were sorting out our problem. He attempted to inflate it, first with a failed cannister and then
with a pump the size of a pencil.
* Zefal HPX size 4
Has anyone ever used a layer of gorilla tape followed by a layer of proper tubeless tape to tape a rim? Any reason this would be a stupid idea?
I've got a set of Hope 20Five rims, and they seem particularly resistant to being properly taped, pissing air out of the spoke holes after seating the tire and giving it a good shake. I've tried Stan's and Schwalbe tape, and two otherwise reliable shops have also struggled with them. I've had gorilla tape recommended for stubborn rims as it apparently conforms better to the channel and seals the holes better than proper tubeless tape, but have read about issues about gorilla tape being porous, and also getting pushed too deep into the spoke holes at road pressures. I'm thinking a layer of gorilla tape to properly seal the spoke holes, followed by a layer of tubeless tape to provide strength and block sealant travelling through the gorilla tape. Thoughts from the panel?
Has anyone ever used a layer of gorilla tape followed by a layer of proper tubeless tape to tape a rim? Any reason this would be a stupid idea?
I've got a set of Hope 20Five rims, and they seem particularly resistant to being properly taped, pissing air out of the spoke holes after seating the tire and giving it a good shake. I've tried Stan's and Schwalbe tape, and two otherwise reliable shops have also struggled with them. I've had gorilla tape recommended for stubborn rims as it apparently conforms better to the channel and seals the holes better than proper tubeless tape, but have read about issues about gorilla tape being porous, and also getting pushed too deep into the spoke holes at road pressures. I'm thinking a layer of gorilla tape to properly seal the spoke holes, followed by a layer of tubeless tape to provide strength and block sealant travelling through the gorilla tape. Thoughts from the panel?
I use a green high temperature polyester masking tape (for powder coating) by 3M. Sometimes I use a thinner, clear and more flexible version underneath to improve adhesion. My main tape is ‘similar’ to the effeto mariposa tape and I much prefer it to Tesa/Stans.
Gorilla tape can be a bit marginal at road pressures but sticks well (leaving residue mind) and is also a bit too thick for road use and comfortable tyre fitting.
If you’re local to Harrogate I’ll tape up your rims quite happily.
Otherwise:
https://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/collections/polyester-tapes-flash-tapes/products/3m-8992-polyester-tape-50mm-x-66m?variant=32868785520703 (https://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/collections/polyester-tapes-flash-tapes/products/3m-8992-polyester-tape-50mm-x-66m?variant=32868785520703)
20five rims look to have a very deep center channel. Taping into that and keeping the tape the full width of the rim looks challenging.
When youve found leaking and then removed the tyre, where was the tape? Id guess pressure pushed the tape into the channel and pulled it away from the edges? Really you want the tape almost up the sides of the rim so the tyre sits 'on/in' the tape to make a good seal with no path for the air to get under the tape, that might be hard with this rim. Id probably try a wider tape so it has spare width to settle properly then trim off the excess, tho at this point you are probably almost at the cost of the rims in tape :'(
Before you retape tho do check the valve, deep/curved rims like those can be tough to fully seat the valve. Many atfermarket vavles are just have a rubber cone for a seat/seal and these often wedge in the hole at the sides and leave a tiny air path at the deepest point. If you think this may be the issue there are a few options, grease the seal, bathroom sealant on the seal, an instant clear/gel patch over the hole first (this is a trick schwalbe have inculded in some kits before, they are thick and squishy so help seat uneven gaps), or a valve with a different shape seat/seal such as zefal (https://www.merlincycles.com/zefal-tubeless-valves-108313.html?utm_source=PHG&source=PHG&utm_medium=Affiliates&utm_campaign=genieshopping).
Interesting, I need some 50mm wide tape so will give that a shot. Viking is usually who I buy my Tesa tape from.Has anyone ever used a layer of gorilla tape followed by a layer of proper tubeless tape to tape a rim? Any reason this would be a stupid idea?
I've got a set of Hope 20Five rims, and they seem particularly resistant to being properly taped, pissing air out of the spoke holes after seating the tire and giving it a good shake. I've tried Stan's and Schwalbe tape, and two otherwise reliable shops have also struggled with them. I've had gorilla tape recommended for stubborn rims as it apparently conforms better to the channel and seals the holes better than proper tubeless tape, but have read about issues about gorilla tape being porous, and also getting pushed too deep into the spoke holes at road pressures. I'm thinking a layer of gorilla tape to properly seal the spoke holes, followed by a layer of tubeless tape to provide strength and block sealant travelling through the gorilla tape. Thoughts from the panel?
I use a green high temperature polyester masking tape (for powder coating) by 3M. Sometimes I use a thinner, clear and more flexible version underneath to improve adhesion. My main tape is ‘similar’ to the effeto mariposa tape and I much prefer it to Tesa/Stans.
Gorilla tape can be a bit marginal at road pressures but sticks well (leaving residue mind) and is also a bit too thick for road use and comfortable tyre fitting.
If you’re local to Harrogate I’ll tape up your rims quite happily.
Otherwise:
https://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/collections/polyester-tapes-flash-tapes/products/3m-8992-polyester-tape-50mm-x-66m?variant=32868785520703 (https://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/collections/polyester-tapes-flash-tapes/products/3m-8992-polyester-tape-50mm-x-66m?variant=32868785520703)
Interesting, I need some 50mm wide tape so will give that a shot. Viking is usually who I buy my Tesa tape from.Has anyone ever used a layer of gorilla tape followed by a layer of proper tubeless tape to tape a rim? Any reason this would be a stupid idea?
I've got a set of Hope 20Five rims, and they seem particularly resistant to being properly taped, pissing air out of the spoke holes after seating the tire and giving it a good shake. I've tried Stan's and Schwalbe tape, and two otherwise reliable shops have also struggled with them. I've had gorilla tape recommended for stubborn rims as it apparently conforms better to the channel and seals the holes better than proper tubeless tape, but have read about issues about gorilla tape being porous, and also getting pushed too deep into the spoke holes at road pressures. I'm thinking a layer of gorilla tape to properly seal the spoke holes, followed by a layer of tubeless tape to provide strength and block sealant travelling through the gorilla tape. Thoughts from the panel?
I use a green high temperature polyester masking tape (for powder coating) by 3M. Sometimes I use a thinner, clear and more flexible version underneath to improve adhesion. My main tape is ‘similar’ to the effeto mariposa tape and I much prefer it to Tesa/Stans.
Gorilla tape can be a bit marginal at road pressures but sticks well (leaving residue mind) and is also a bit too thick for road use and comfortable tyre fitting.
If you’re local to Harrogate I’ll tape up your rims quite happily.
Otherwise:
https://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/collections/polyester-tapes-flash-tapes/products/3m-8992-polyester-tape-50mm-x-66m?variant=32868785520703 (https://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/collections/polyester-tapes-flash-tapes/products/3m-8992-polyester-tape-50mm-x-66m?variant=32868785520703)
Anyone with experience running 38mm GravelKing SK + tyres tubeless ?
Chatting to the mechanic in the (not)LBS, he wasn't a fan; his experience was that they just didn't stay up no matter which wheels he used them on.
I'm disappointed because I have them on the Ti bike with tubes in and they are very, very good for the riding that I do. Those rims are not tubeless ready and I'm not going to risk a "gorilla" build.
The new bike is tubeless ready and I'm running the OE wheels and tyres (tyres are WTB Nano TCS Light, 700 x 40c) tubeless with Vittoria gravel tyre liners. So far, the tyres been impressively air tight but they are really "draggy" on the road, so much so that I'm thinking of changing them already; I've done 100km.......
Anyone with experience running 38mm GravelKing SK + tyres tubeless ?
Chatting to the mechanic in the (not)LBS, he wasn't a fan; his experience was that they just didn't stay up no matter which wheels he used them on.
I'm disappointed because I have them on the Ti bike with tubes in and they are very, very good for the riding that I do. Those rims are not tubeless ready and I'm not going to risk a "gorilla" build.
The new bike is tubeless ready and I'm running the OE wheels and tyres (tyres are WTB Nano TCS Light, 700 x 40c) tubeless with Vittoria gravel tyre liners. So far, the tyres been impressively air tight but they are really "draggy" on the road, so much so that I'm thinking of changing them already; I've done 100km.......
Setup dozens, never had a problem.
Why bother with wasteful CO2 when you can make your own IED for tubeless setups - https://youtu.be/pasrZtlfrGs
Used one of these to seat a bunch of 29+/27.5+ tyres at home, works incredibly well. It's even worked where a compressor has failed in the shop.
I know some have said don’t use this stuff on non UST rims
My 3 quid pop bottle does that no problem.
My 3 quid pop bottle does that no problem.
. . . one option I had considered was a short length of sturdy plastic hose that's a tight fit to the valve stem and cut the valve stem off an old Schraeder valve and slip that into the other end of the tube (probably need hot water to stretch it a bit) to connect the air tank or compressor - it would probably work but perhaps liable to blow apart?
My 3 quid pop bottle does that no problem.
. . . one option I had considered was a short length of sturdy plastic hose that's a tight fit to the valve stem and cut the valve stem off an old Schraeder valve and slip that into the other end of the tube (probably need hot water to stretch it a bit) to connect the air tank or compressor - it would probably work but perhaps liable to blow apart?
A Schrader valve? stem already has an internal thread. Have you checked whether that fits over a Presta stem?
so.
got a rear tyre punctured today, it was mostly air hissing and barely any sealant. after checking the last top up date, it was the 5th of september, just over four months. no worries, i carry some sealant in a saddle bag for such cases. topped it up (30ml), pumped it up, but it was still not sealing as it should. stopped again to pump the tyre up and by doing so broke the (aluminium) valve stem. o-oh. luckily, after a mini-disaster last year, where both tyres punctured and unseated, i was carrying an inner tube - for similar scenarios. popped it in, pumped it up, cleaned the sealant mess with a baby wipe and reached home no problem.
the moral: use brass valves rather than aluminium, carry an inner tube just in case (i wasn't carrying any for six(ish) years and got away with it).
SKS Edge fit over a 38mm Gravel King.