Author Topic: Tubeless for Dummies (Read 195921 times)

simonp · « **Reply #950 on:** 26 June, 2019, 02:45:35 pm »

Had my first puncture on Sunday - a sharp piece of glass in the front tyre. When I pulled it out, the tyre didn't seal. Spinning it just resulted in a spray of sealant.

I put in a dynaplug and trimmed it, then inflated with CO2. This wasn't quite enough. A second dynaplug did the job.

Bit of a learning curve - but proved it could be handled. I was probably 10-20 miles from home. I need to reinflate the tyre with air and check if it's going to hold. I suspect it would be a very good idea to patch the tyre properly now, but I'm likely to swap back to the road tyres anyway.

vorsprung · « **Reply #951 on:** 02 July, 2019, 09:51:22 am »

Put the GP5000 on the Genesis. I won't be running them for PBP, just want to try them out.

First impressions riding them around the block they are as expected. Roll fast, fairly comfy for a 25mm. It's a bit difficult to do A/B comparison with the previous tyres as they were 2bliess in 32mm. Was running them at 90psi, probably be fine at 80 however

The GP5000 are thicker / heavier than a Pro One. They are pretty much slick, just a "decoration" half hearted light pattern on the shoulders

I had some trouble fitting them which is worth mentioning

The wheels, as far as I remember, have only had one coating of rim tape since I started running them tubeless, maybe 2 years ago now
The front tyre went on fine. I didn't have to use a bead jack, it went on with fingers. The tyres are as mentioned above 25mm GP5000, the rims are Velocity Aeron. The rims are tubeless specific and listed as istr 22mm internal width. 20mm tape fits tightly and exactly. I some kind of problem with my pump and used CO² to inflate, but it was straight forward

On the rear however, I had trouble. I tried mounting it with the airshot - fail, with CO² - fail, clean the rims more carefully - fail, use soap solution - fail
The rim tape was crinkled in a few places. But there had been a tyre on it before that inflated just fine. I decided to try replacing the rim tape. I have a large reel of tape. I pulled off the old tape, cleaned all the latex off the edges of the rim (only tiny bits) Under the tape the internal surface of the rim was pristine. I cleaned it finally with isopropyl and retaped with two layers.
Refitted tyre and it inflated easily with the airshot

Moral is, if the rim tape looks shite, replace it

bludger · « **Reply #952 on:** 02 July, 2019, 09:56:26 am »

I had the same rim tape problem with my last attempt. Bunged a load more on and off we went.

One big bugvearr I have with tubeless tyres on road/cross is that they seem to be very intolerant of high pressures, in my experience. I want to be able to blow up 32s to high pressure for road surfaces and then let them down for rough stuff, but whenever I try it the seal seems to be lost either running high or low. ☹️

BrianI · « **Reply #953 on:** 02 July, 2019, 11:31:07 pm »

First tubeless puncture tonight on the MTB. Looks like a bit of glass cut through the tyre. Sealant urinated out the hole, and tyre deflated. Was just a mile from home, so rather than mess about with a messy tyre, just walked home pushing the bike... Not too happy about the fact that the bead unseated. Tubeless compatible tyres, on a rim converted using a Stans no tubes rubber rim strip with the rim well sealed with Tessa tape...

BrianI · « **Reply #954 on:** 03 July, 2019, 07:27:43 pm »

Hmm. Found the hole in the tyre, right at the join between a tread block and the tyre carcass. Pretty deep cut. Was able to patch it with a tubeless patch on the inside, alas when inflated again, the hole opened up even wider, letting me see the patch from the outside! Suffice to say the tyre will be getting binned (at least it was just a cheap BTwin Tubeless Ready tyre) , and I'll probably forego my tubeless travels, going back to ye olde worlde normal non tubeless tyres, albeit with slime tubes...

suffolkngood · « **Reply #955 on:** 07 July, 2019, 09:01:59 pm »

I wrote an article for cycling weekly. On my website I expand further on tubeless technology. It's not brand specific but some brands that are useful solutions to problems often encountered are mentioned.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/tubeless-tyres-properly-406530/amp

I have yet to be stranded with tubeless anxd I have fixed some big holes albeit on a temporary basis that you could shove my thumb through comfortably. Most tyre plug repairs are for the lifd of the tyre. One thing to not not all plugs like everything tubeless are git for purpose. There is a big range in functionality in tubeless equipment which cause many of the issues tubeless user encounter.

However these failure are rare and no more common than on the tubed tyres I used to use.

Brinal read the article in cycling weekly or the expanded version on my website to find out why your tyres unseated with no air. Also carry plugs as you could have fixed the hole before it went flat.

bludger · « **Reply #956 on:** 11 July, 2019, 11:00:04 pm »

So I think I figured out how to make tubeless work:

1. Take your alexrims 'tubeless ready' wheels
2. Throw them in the bin
3. Swap them for a pair of Mavic UST ones which are beautifully taped and shaped in such a way that sealing tubeless ready tyres requires no soapy water, valve core removal, air shots, or anything. I daresay I could have managed it with my hand pump.

Shocked at how easy that was. Mavic Allroad (£225/pair), Vittoria Terreno dry (£80/pair), all done within 15 minutes.

I feel like an idiot for not having got rid of the alexrims sooner.

DuncanM · « **Reply #957 on:** 12 July, 2019, 12:38:25 pm »

I'm tubeless curious.

The aim is to get more grip and lighter weight on my 26" MTB that I'm using for 'cross. Current tyres are worn out (tubed) Continental Speed Kings.

Should I explore the world of tubeless, or just get myself some more tubes and live with the odd pinch flat? I'm not replacing the wheels - I don't know if that influences the decision.

zigzag · « **Reply #958 on:** 12 July, 2019, 01:13:14 pm »

Quote from: DuncanM on 12 July, 2019, 12:38:25 pm

Should I explore the world of tubeless, or just get myself some more tubes and live with the odd pinch flat? I'm not replacing the wheels - I don't know if that influences the decision.

read this thread and make up your mind

correct choice of wheels (rims, to be precise) is very important for hassle free tubeless setup. to complicate things, not all rims marketed as tubeless are tubeless, i.e. they don't retain the deflated tyre seated properly (which is a major fail). i'd move to 27.5 wheels as there is a much wider choice of tyres.

DuncanM · « **Reply #959 on:** 12 July, 2019, 01:37:01 pm »

Loads of this thread is about road, not mtb. I don't have the clearance for 27.5 on this bike, so its 26 or new (cross) bike.

bludger · « **Reply #960 on:** 12 July, 2019, 01:58:14 pm »

I suppose it depends on your terrain. I raced a 26er at beastway the other week with tubes in and there weren't any dramas but that was sloppy and muddy terrain. Going on more rocky and flinty terrain it might be more worth the while.

vorsprung · « **Reply #961 on:** 12 July, 2019, 02:16:53 pm »

Quote from: suffolkngood on 07 July, 2019, 09:01:59 pm

I wrote an article for cycling weekly. On my website I expand further on tubeless technology. It's not brand specific but some brands that are useful solutions to problems often encountered are mentioned.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/tubeless-tyres-properly-406530/amp

I have yet to be stranded with tubeless anxd I have fixed some big holes albeit on a temporary basis that you could shove my thumb through comfortably. Most tyre plug repairs are for the lifd of the tyre. One thing to not not all plugs like everything tubeless are git for purpose. There is a big range in functionality in tubeless equipment which cause many of the issues tubeless user encounter.

However these failure are rare and no more common than on the tubed tyres I used to use.

Brinal read the article in cycling weekly or the expanded version on my website to find out why your tyres unseated with no air. Also carry plugs as you could have fixed the hole before it went flat.

"inject sealant through the core" doesn't work with orange seal. It's so efficient at blocking holes that it blocks the hole in the valve

simonp · « **Reply #962 on:** 12 July, 2019, 02:21:41 pm »

Quote from: vorsprung on 12 July, 2019, 02:16:53 pm

Quote from: suffolkngood on 07 July, 2019, 09:01:59 pm
I wrote an article for cycling weekly. On my website I expand further on tubeless technology. It's not brand specific but some brands that are useful solutions to problems often encountered are mentioned.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/tubeless-tyres-properly-406530/amp

I have yet to be stranded with tubeless anxd I have fixed some big holes albeit on a temporary basis that you could shove my thumb through comfortably. Most tyre plug repairs are for the lifd of the tyre. One thing to not not all plugs like everything tubeless are git for purpose. There is a big range in functionality in tubeless equipment which cause many of the issues tubeless user encounter.

However these failure are rare and no more common than on the tubed tyres I used to use.

Brinal read the article in cycling weekly or the expanded version on my website to find out why your tyres unseated with no air. Also carry plugs as you could have fixed the hole before it went flat.

"inject sealant through the core" doesn't work with orange seal. It's so efficient at blocking holes that it blocks the hole in the valve

https://twitter.com/ianwalker/status/1143775430333411328

I'm going to try switching to Caffelatex as I'm not convinced by Stan's at all.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #963 on:** 12 July, 2019, 02:29:14 pm »

Stans=ok
Orange seal= a bit better
Finish Line= might as well use water.

DuncanM · « **Reply #964 on:** 12 July, 2019, 02:52:09 pm »

Quote from: bludger on 12 July, 2019, 01:58:14 pm

I suppose it depends on your terrain. I raced a 26er at beastway the other week with tubes in and there weren't any dramas but that was sloppy and muddy terrain. Going on more rocky and flinty terrain it might be more worth the while.

It was really dry and either quite long grass or rocks and dust this week. Who knows how it will be next week!

bludger · « **Reply #965 on:** 12 July, 2019, 03:51:39 pm »

Ah you mean the Beastway summer cross races, I raced the 26er during the Beastway XC MTB series at Redbridge, which owing to its clay soil was a bit of a mud jam. Which was great for me because while everyone else's 27.5s/29ers were getting jammed up with mud around the frame, I had enough clearance to accommodate a family of well fed rats.

I will see you at the Redbridge race in a few weeks if you're sticking at the series, the Gravesend one is a bit too far away for me. I had to take this week off after scraping the skin off my left elbow and knee at Leyton Park.

DuncanM · « **Reply #966 on:** 12 July, 2019, 04:35:40 pm »

Sorry, I'm not at Beastway, I'm doing the Take3 cyclocross series near Abingdon. First race was yesterday - 6 more to go.
The number of times I almost washed out the front was far too high - I suspect I was running more tyre pressure than most but the rims are really narrow and the tyres aren't tubeless ready. Hence why I was wondering about changing it up for next week...

bludger · « **Reply #967 on:** 12 July, 2019, 04:55:15 pm »

Ah righto well hopefully your courses are plenty of fun. Ours are a bit up and down sometimes. The days of dedicated cross courses in the woodland seem to be over...

Bolt · « **Reply #968 on:** 23 July, 2019, 10:08:52 pm »

Quote from: Hot Flatus on 12 July, 2019, 02:29:14 pm

Stans=ok
Orange seal= a bit better
Finish Line= might as well use water.

Out of curiosity I decided to try and convert a pair of old Mavic Cross Ride 26" wheels to tubeless. My major concern was that these rims are pinned and I wasn't sure if the sealant would seal the joint exposed beyond the rim tape. I used about 60ml of Decathlon's own brand sealant which sealed the joint on the first wheel without so much as a dribble appearing under pressure, however the seal around the bead was not so good with tiny leaks around the whole circumference of the tyre. Given that the Decathlon sealant is pretty thick, I added 30ml of Stans to the tyre and voila the bead sealed instantly

So with the first wheel holding pressure well I proceeded with the second but only using 60ml of Stans this time. I inflated the tyre only to see a fine spray of sealant out of the rim joint with no signs of sealing it. So I lobbed in 30ml of the thicker Decathlon sealant and sure enough it sealed the rim joint perfectly. Not sure how well these 2 sealants will work together over time... but they smell about the same

zigzag · « **Reply #969 on:** 24 July, 2019, 02:19:40 pm »

rim joint should be covered by a rim tape - i.e. sealant should only be in contact with rim tape and inner tyre (and a tubeless valve)

BrianI · « **Reply #970 on:** 24 July, 2019, 06:56:12 pm »

Quote from: suffolkngood on 07 July, 2019, 09:01:59 pm

I wrote an article for cycling weekly. On my website I expand further on tubeless technology. It's not brand specific but some brands that are useful solutions to problems often encountered are mentioned.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/tubeless-tyres-properly-406530/amp

I have yet to be stranded with tubeless anxd I have fixed some big holes albeit on a temporary basis that you could shove my thumb through comfortably. Most tyre plug repairs are for the lifd of the tyre. One thing to not not all plugs like everything tubeless are git for purpose. There is a big range in functionality in tubeless equipment which cause many of the issues tubeless user encounter.

However these failure are rare and no more common than on the tubed tyres I used to use.

Brinal read the article in cycling weekly or the expanded version on my website to find out why your tyres unseated with no air. Also carry plugs as you could have fixed the hole before it went flat.

An interesting article, thanks for sharing it. The wheels on my MTB are not tubeless compatible, hence me doing a conversion using tessa tape, and a Joe's no flats rubber rim strip.

I've since bought a new pair of tubeless ready tyres, Bontrager XR2 Team Issue in 29x2.2". Ive also taken a punt on a pair of Barbieri Anaconda tyre liners (look like swimming pool noodles) which should hopefully help with preventing tyre burping. I'll probably be replacing the MTB wheels next year, so I'll probably go for tubeless ready wheelset (assuming you can still get them in ye olde worlde 100mm / 135mm hub widths with standard q/r axles).

Probably going to be a few weeks till I get a chance to fit the new tyres - I'm currently recovering from abdominal surgery to fix my own inner tubes (twisted bowel not much fun!)...

Bolt · « **Reply #971 on:** 25 July, 2019, 12:55:27 am »

Quote from: zigzag on 24 July, 2019, 02:19:40 pm

rim joint should be covered by a rim tape - i.e. sealant should only be in contact with rim tape and inner tyre (and a tubeless valve)

But surely the rim tape doesn't and shouldn't extend into the hook of the rim? Yes, I guess in theory that the tyre bead should seal against the remaining exposed part of the joint but in my experiment it still left a void that Stan couldn't seal. Good news is that both tyres held pressure overnight and survived a test ride today

zigzag · « **Reply #972 on:** 25 July, 2019, 08:55:15 am »

Quote from: Bolt on 25 July, 2019, 12:55:27 am

Quote from: zigzag on 24 July, 2019, 02:19:40 pm
rim joint should be covered by a rim tape - i.e. sealant should only be in contact with rim tape and inner tyre (and a tubeless valve)

But surely the rim tape doesn't and shouldn't extend into the hook of the rim? Yes, I guess in theory that the tyre bead should seal against the remaining exposed part of the joint but in my experiment it still left a void that Stan couldn't seal. Good news is that both tyres held pressure overnight and survived a test ride today

ideally, the tape should cover all voids which means it should be slightly wider than the inner max width of the rim (when wrapped tightly). sealant getting inside the rim is never a good idea, especially if the nipples are alloy.

zigzag · « **Reply #973 on:** 26 July, 2019, 06:36:48 pm »

will be testing some new gloop from oosk. initial impression is good - the sealant looks right thickness (similar to frijj milkshake) with some finely ground rubber particles mixed in. ideally i'd go for stans race sealant, but unfortunately in cannot be injected through the valve. might take months to find out how this works (or doesn't).

bludger · « **Reply #974 on:** 26 July, 2019, 11:45:25 pm »

Did a horrible cross race this week on Mavic allroads (which came with valves), shod with Vittoria Terreno dry 31mms and using OKO hi fibre magic milk from Planet X (https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WSOKOMMHF/oko-magic-milk-hi-fibre-tyre-sealant). Of 24 racers, 6 were KO'd with flats, owing to the horrendously gnarly course which was also covered in thorns. I think the combo held up very well. Which was almost a pity as it meant I had to complete the race, which shook me so hard my bottle cage broke.

Author Topic: Tubeless for Dummies (Read 195921 times)

simonp

simonp