Tubeless for Dummies

[ElyDave]

About 2000km on Orange Seal so far, no issues, easy to get into the tryes, no leakage.

[chrisbainbridge]

Mucoff have a really well designed pouch which fits over the valve making filling really easy and clean plus I like their valves. But they are expensive.

[JonBuoy]

Mucoff have a really well designed pouch which fits over the valve making filling really easy and clean plus I like their valves. But they are expensive.

It looks like Muc-Off have a new valve design out so they are selling off old stock cheap: https://muc-off.com/collections/tubeless-valves/products/tubeless-valves-v1

[Sergeant Pluck]

Having spent some time on this I just don't think there is a clear winner. The only one that seems to be fairly consistently poorly rated is the Lifeline one. However, the quality of testing seems poor and there are virtually no long term tests.

[BrianI]

To be honest, for my very occasionally used MTB, I'm thinking of going back to tubes (or even tubes with tube compatible sealant in em). Every time I go to look at my MTB, the rear tyre has deflated, and become unseated. This is despite using a proper tubeless compatible tyre, and a tubeless conversion kit, and a "pool noodle" tubeless tyre liner...  Or even go for something like Schwalbe Smart Sam Plus, which has the same thick puncture resistant layer as Marathon Plus tyres.....

[Ian H]

Thanks Ian H.

Is it not undesirable for tyres to be easy to get on and off in a tubeless set-up, a sign that that they are not seating as well as they should?
How often are you needing to top up, and is the sealant drying up or being lost in between times? If the latter, are you having to clean up much mess from the bike?

Top-up probably every couple of months or so.  The rims I am using have a slight lip either side of the well which helps to locate the tyre.  Also they are 38mm and fairly low pressure (50psi).

Another bike has 25mm tubeless (GP5000) running at 70/80psi.  In two years I've had two deflations - 1st was partial, a 'burp' over a pothole.  I increased the rear pressure to 80.  2nd was a hole in the sidewall.  I put a tube in and replaced the tyre later.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Every time I go to look at my MTB, the rear tyre has deflated, and become unseated.

Interesting that it is only the rear. Perhaps some distortion in the bead?

The odd report of tubeless perhaps being less good for bikes that unused for long periods led me to choose my most frequently ridden bike for my first tubeless venture. Rarely more than a few days between rides.

Top-up probably every couple of months or so.  The rims I am using have a slight lip either side of the well which helps to locate the tyre.  Also they are 38mm and fairly low pressure (50psi).

Thanks IanH. Likewise, 38mm and I run them at around 45 front and rear tubed and I’ll probably have a few PSI less when tubeless.

I base my tyre pressures on this now:
https://silcavelo.eu/pages/sppc-form

https://youtu.be/ZuxUWFziuGI

[BrianI]

Every time I go to look at my MTB, the rear tyre has deflated, and become unseated.

Interesting that it is only the rear. Perhaps some distortion in the bead?

Probably due to the fact that the way the MTB is stored, is the front wheel is removed, and tucked along the side of the frame, while the rear of the mtb is resting on the floor, wheel still in the frame.  So the rear has probably lost pressure over the last few months, meaning the bead unseated, due to lack of air pressure... 

[Kim]

To be honest, for my very occasionally used MTB, I'm thinking of going back to tubes

I've resisted trying tubeless on my MTB for this reason, even though the immunity to snakebites would give it a real advantage.  I just don't ride it regularly enough to be worthwhile.

[fd3]

Having spent some time on this I just don't think there is a clear winner. The only one that seems to be fairly consistently poorly rated is the Lifeline one. However, the quality of testing seems poor and there are virtually no long term tests.

Okay, so maximise the L/£ of purchase then.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Having spent some time on this I just don't think there is a clear winner. The only one that seems to be fairly consistently poorly rated is the Lifeline one. However, the quality of testing seems poor and there are virtually no long term tests.

Okay, so maximise the L/£ of purchase then.

I think if you have a fleet of tubeless bikes that’s a reasonable approach. It may even be a good approach for one bike. My choice of sealant was more or less random as I have little faith in the various tests online. One criteria I did use was that it be ammonia-free.

[BrianI]

To be honest, for my very occasionally used MTB, I'm thinking of going back to tubes

I've resisted trying tubeless on my MTB for this reason, even though the immunity to snakebites would give it a real advantage.  I just don't ride it regularly enough to be worthwhile.

Still unsure whether sealant in tubes is a good thing, or just simplify even more by getting a set of (heavy) puncture resistant tyres, like Schwalbe Smart Sam Plus or similar MTB tyre with puncture resistant layer.  ALthough something like that is a pretty heavy tyre.....  1090g a tyre in 29x2.25" size..... 

[Kim]

I've never been particularly convinced by sealant in tubes, but I'm capable of repairing punctures, and sealant spaffing everywhere tends to wreck your chances of a successful patch.  If you're not going to attempt a repair at the roadside, sealant might be worth it.

It certainly seems to work better at MTB pressures.

[BrianI]

I've never been particularly convinced by sealant in tubes, but I'm capable of repairing punctures, and sealant spaffing everywhere tends to wreck your chances of a successful patch.  If you're not going to attempt a repair at the roadside, sealant might be worth it.

It certainly seems to work better at MTB pressures.

Unfortunately there isn't much choice nowadays with regards to "puncture resistant" MTB tyres, which don't rely on a Tubeless setup with Sealant in the Tyre to provide the puncture resistance... 

[Cudzoziemiec]

If you're no good at, or just don't like, patching tubes, then it might be a good idea to try the "instant patches". The decent ones from eg Park or Lezyne work pretty well. IME they're as long-lasting as traditional patches, a lot easier to apply at the roadside, and harder to apply badly in bad conditions (mud, rain, etc).

[L CC]

For me, tyres going flat in storage isn't a concern- as long as they go up and stay up when you're riding?
I don't ride any of my real bikes often enough, and it's easy enough to get out the track pump before I ride..

[Kim]

I'm working on the (possibly erroneous) principle that a neglected tubeless tyre will require re-seating and possibly topping up with sealant (with implied 'can you trust it?' phase), whereas a neglected tubed tyre you can just pump up and ride.

[Hot Flatus]

That is a sound principle. If left long enough it may deflate and unseat.

[BrianI]

For me, tyres going flat in storage isn't a concern- as long as they go up and stay up when you're riding?
I don't ride any of my real bikes often enough, and it's easy enough to get out the track pump before I ride..

Main issue is tubeless tyre becoming unseated. Maybe less of an issue had i tubeless rims on the MTB, combined with tubeless tyres. Whereas tubeless tyres on converted non tubeless rims may not be an ideal combination especially for a rarely used mtb.  And no, i cannot justify the cost of a tuneless wheelset for the mtb, especially as ye olde worlde standard q/r skewer disc wheelset is pretty hard to get nowadays...

[Sergeant Pluck]

Front wheel done this morning. I did a practice reseating before putting in the sealant - probably just as well. I needed to take the valve core out first time round, then when I added the sealant I unseated as little as possible. Reseated first time with sealant and so far so good.

Feels strange to have a bike tyre without a tube in it so will only do one wheel and see how it goes for a day or two. I know there are at least two holes in the rear so less confident about that one.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Went ahead with the rear. The process, seating and so forth went fine but I must say I am a little concerned about how long the Silca took to seal the only hole there is in the tyre (as observed when doing a practice seat with no sealant). This is a tiny 2mm fine slice caused by a small glass shard. Sealed it partially immediately, but struggled to seal completely at 60 psi, and even now at 42 psi (the pressure I’ll be riding at) a bit of manipulation and squeezing around the hole leads to a little bit more sealant emerging.

Let’s see. Certainly it sealed it enough within seconds to change it from a more-or-less instant deflation to a slower puncture, but I’d like to have seen that seal immediately.

[Sergeant Pluck]

No pressure loss overnight. They went flat overnight without sealant when new so the sealant is working. 40km this morning, did some bumpy stuff, clattered it over a few fast road humps, all good 

Fingers crossed.

[Hot Flatus]

The key (IME) to successfully mounting tubeless tyres is to not skip wiping the beads with a strong washing-up liquid solution. Use an airshot, or similar. Replace valve-cores every so often. Overinflate on first mounting (by about 20%). Shake the tyre sealant around the rim and tyre...  then ride pretty soon after and for the first few days.

The hardest ones I've ever mounted were gravelkings on mavic gravel wheels, but that was because they were tight. After one inflation and no riding they are still rock hard after 3 days.

[Sergeant Pluck]

The ones I have just done were Gravelkings. I did the soapy water bit. I have an Airshot. I needed 150psi in the Airshot and the valve core out to get them to seat to begin with. I did this without sealant initially.  The Silca needs to go directly in the tyre rather than through the valve, so I wanted to try to keep one side seated while I added sealant. Had 160psi in the Airshot for the final inflation, with a valve core in obv.

Replacing valve cores - how often roughly and do they tend to unseat while you do this?

[sojournermike]

I replace valve cores when they get gummed up and make pumping the tyre up annoying. Most tyres on my rims don’t unseat - combination of rim design and sealant I think. I just let the tyre down, pop out the core, top up sealant and pump back up.

A tip to extend the life of valve cores is to let the bike sit with the valances at 7-8 o’clock, allowing sealant to drain away, for a while then gently rotate the valve up to the top of the wheel before opening and pumping up. This can pretty well eliminate sealant getting blown into the core for quite a while. But, yes, they become consumables - although you can often get them a bit cleaner and extend their life.