Author Topic: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)  (Read 74238 times)

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #700 on: 28 July, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »
I wasn't aware of that.  I hope this means he will be less withdrawn, though I don't expect him to parade his life in the tabloids for us.
Getting there...

rdaviesb

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #701 on: 28 July, 2009, 06:36:58 pm »
Its really good to be hearing from Robert Millar again, albeit on his own terms. He's a really astute cycling commentator.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #702 on: 28 July, 2009, 09:01:30 pm »
Well, just back from France where I've had no access to internet so haven't been able to join in with the discussion, but suffice to say I enjoyed it.

The only TV on the campsite was in the bar, which didn't open until 5pm, so I didn't get to watch much live coverage until I twigged that anyone could just go in the bar before it opened and switch the telly on. So I watched most of the "Five Cols" stage, which was brilliant. Didn't bother with the time trial but wished I had when I read about it later. Likewise after not bothering to watch the stage that turned out to be Cav's Fifth because I wasn't expecting that! (Was anyone?) Watched the Ventoux stage from shortly before the main pack reached Bedouin, and watched the final stage from shortly before they reached Paris.

Have to say in light of previous comments that I doubt Contador is clean but still admire his performance in what turned out to be a cracking race in the final week, so I'm happy to see him take the win. Even if he isn't clean, he's not the only one.

As to Wiggo's cleanliness... there were subtle insinuations in the French press (mostly in the form of unaccredited people asking the question of how he could be doing so well when it was totally unexpected ::-) ) but no outright accusations. And he mostly scored well in L'Equipe's daily ratings chart.

But sod what the French think - what an absolute hero that man is. As I think I mentioned upthread, I had a horrible feeling that he would eventually succumb to the constant attacks in the big mountain stages, and so it proved to be, but he put in a truly heroic effort every time the road went uphill, especially on Ventoux. The "Five Cols" stage was unfortunate in the way it ended for Wiggo but played to tactical perfection by LA, who was clearly just marking Wiggo up the last climb and making him do the work before blitzing him at the top. If Wiggo had a stronger team to help him in the mountains, he might have been able to compete with the Astana boys - maybe next year?

L'Equipe was also surprisingly favourable in its comments about Lance Armstrong. And I have to admit I was wrong about him - I didn't think he could come back after four years out and still be a dominating force but he rode an excellent race and I seriously believe that he could have challenged Contador for GC if he hadn't been playing the team game like he promised he would, his disappointing TT notwithstanding. Despite the Kloden incident (which I think was a mistake by Contador, or just a communication problem between Kloden and Contador, rather than a deliberate attempt to create more friction) it seems to me that the trouble in the Astana camp was somewhat overhyped by the press and TV - throughout the race, they repeatedly showed what a strong team they were when it really mattered. And two out of three ain't bad, especially given that it took a phenomenal performance by Andy Schleck and the abandonment of Leipheimer to prevent it being a likely three out of three.

Talking of L'Equipe, I did enjoy being able to buy a daily paper that gave proper coverage to the Tour - six whole pages of reports, interviews and comment pieces every day! Brilliant!

And I don't care what anyone else says about Cav, I think he's great. The ordeal of coming through the mountains seemed to have a pretty humbling effect on him - by the time the race reached Paris he was noticeably a lot less mouthy and a lot more respectful. Plus his comments about Hushovd after the big man's lone breakaway heroics were as magnanimous and respectful as you would expect. We've seen Cav really grow up in the last three weeks. Besides, regardless of what you think of him as a person, his achievements on the bike are nothing short of incredible - even Eddy Merckx hadn't won as many TdF stages as Cav at the same age. He is already one of the greats of the sport and it's frightening to think what he could go on to achieve (with Zabel coaching him, I'd say it's a safe bet that he'll win the green jersey within a few years - and let's not forget that this is the first time he's finished the TdF, so to come a close second in the points competition is a pretty big achievement in itself). We should all be hugely proud of him.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #703 on: 28 July, 2009, 09:10:31 pm »
it seems to me that the trouble in the Astana camp was somewhat overhyped by the press and TV -

Oh no it wasn't. You obvioulsy haven't heard Contador's latest press offering and Armstrong's twittered response  ;D ;D

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #704 on: 28 July, 2009, 09:44:33 pm »
You obvioulsy haven't heard Contador's latest press offering and Armstrong's twittered response  ;D ;D

Indeed I haven't...

<googles>

Good grief. Children, the pair of them. Never mind doping accusations, this is spoiling the race for me.  >:(

Still, could make next year's Tour interesting.  ;D

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

gonzo

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #705 on: 28 July, 2009, 10:03:25 pm »
There's been some interesting questions about who's going to get invited next year. Two new teams want in (Radioshack & Sky) so some will have to leave to make room. Will Vino's team get an invite?

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #706 on: 28 July, 2009, 10:43:29 pm »
Well, nobody is allowed to talk about next year's contracts until september 1 st. My gut feeling is that Astana will be back where it started.... dodgy as hell, but without Contador. Armstrong's twitterings run a little hollow, as Contador has already won 2 grand tours (I think) with Astana without any accusations from the rest of the team.

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #707 on: 28 July, 2009, 10:49:45 pm »
Millar was exchanging emails with David Harmon on Eurosport, during the Tour.  He seemed to be quite forthcoming, if only within the context of email.

his communication seemed also to have been unsolicited, which was interesting.

Oh, and while I can never really trust a Bruyneel man, I think Contador did a fantastic job of keeping his head when all around were trying to chop it off.  Armstrongs comments regarding Contador and his team support seem a lot of piffle to me; I think that was a really strong solo effort on many fronts.  Chapeau to LA for his performance though, and a very special trilby each for Wiggins, Cavendish, Miller and Charlie Wig, too.  I've never previously had the chance to watch so much of the TV coverage live and it was a real treat to be able to watch the decisive (or not) moves after seeing the build up to them also.

gonzo

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #708 on: 28 July, 2009, 11:37:22 pm »
Contador has already won 2 grand tours (I think)

2x French tours, 1 Spanish and 1 Italian

ChrisO

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #709 on: 29 July, 2009, 05:10:14 am »
Bloody hell... Hincapie rode the last four stages, including the time trial, Ventoux and his stage-winning leadout for Cavendish with a broken collar bone.

That's f**king Hard. Chapeau doesn't go far enough.

There's been some interesting questions about who's going to get invited next year. Two new teams want in (Radioshack & Sky) so some will have to leave to make room. Will Vino's team get an invite?

This is the team order by prize money, based on placings...

Got to keep Quick Step and Lotto for the Belgies. Rabobank similarly for the Dutch. Agritubel are French I think so they're safe.

Lampre and Skil Shimano are looking a little vulnerable.

Of course it is possible Radio Shack (or Sky) mightt take over an existing team.

 
Tour de France Prize Money
1    Astana    € 697,050    
2    Team Saxo Bank    362,850    
3    Liquigas    156,360    
4    Garmin-Slipstream    151,870    
5    Team Columbia-HTC    102,300    
6    Cervélo TestTeam    86,710    
7    BBox Bouygues Telecom    63,470    
8    AG2R La Mondiale    54,730    
9    Euskaltel-Euskadi    49,820    
10    Cofidis Le Credit en Ligne    40,690    
11    Team Katusha    36,820    
12    Française des Jeux    35,660    
13    Team Milram    32,830    
14    Caisse d'Epargne    31,540    
15    Rabobank    31,310    
16    Agritubel    27,690    
17    Silence-Lotto    22,570    
18    Skil-Shimano    22,530    
19    Quick Step    17,760    
20    Lampre-NGC    17,040

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #710 on: 29 July, 2009, 08:20:02 am »
Contador has already won 2 grand tours (I think)

2x French tours, 1 Spanish and 1 Italian

Some of those were pre Astana though, weren't they?

gonzo

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #711 on: 29 July, 2009, 10:21:54 am »
Contador has already won 2 grand tours (I think)

2x French tours, 1 Spanish and 1 Italian

Some of those were pre Astana though, weren't they?
2007 (Disco)- Tour
2008 (Astana) - Giro & Vuelta
2009 (Astana) - Tour

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #712 on: 29 July, 2009, 11:09:38 am »
Silence-Lotto have had a dismal season so perhaps they might have sponsorship problems and give way to Radioshack or Sky?

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #713 on: 29 July, 2009, 11:15:54 am »
Of course it is possible Radio Shack (or Sky) mightt take over an existing team.

If they let Radio Shack in, along with Garmin and Columbia, that would be three American teams... what are the chances of that?

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #714 on: 29 July, 2009, 01:27:43 pm »
Of course it is possible Radio Shack (or Sky) mightt take over an existing team.

If they let Radio Shack in, along with Garmin and Columbia, that would be three American teams... what are the chances of that?

d.
If they're the teams with the riders that people want to see?  Very good.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #715 on: 29 July, 2009, 01:53:02 pm »
If they're the teams with the riders that people want to see?  Very good.

They didn't invite Contador's team last year...

OK, so there may have been other circumstances at play there but the TdF organisers have a track record of not inviting teams of top riders (eg Pantani and Cipollini in 2002), so I'm not convinced by that argument.

But on the other hand, Lance Armstrong probably wouldn't have been able to get the sponsorship - nor is it likely that he'd have even bothered to put his new team together - if he hadn't been given some assurances behind the scenes about being able to participate next year. So maybe yes, we will see three American teams on next year's TdF.

I'm sure the French press will love that. Ho yuss.

As for Team GB, I was surprised to hear Gary Imlach state at the end of ITV's final stage highlights programme that "there will be a British team in next year's Tour". Everything else I've read or heard on the subject suggests it's far from being a foregone conclusion.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #716 on: 29 July, 2009, 05:48:30 pm »
I agree. The team will happen, but it will depend on who they sign, their ranking and maybe if they get a wildcard invitation as to whether they're on the start line mext year.

I doubt that Dave Brailsford being at the tour was just a recruitment exercise, though. Given their anti-doping stance, the general publicity around the team and the excellent performances by the Brits, I expect Dave was pressing the flesh at ASO to try and improve their chances of a place on the Tour.

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #717 on: 31 July, 2009, 10:52:32 am »
I agree. The team will happen, but it will depend on who they sign, their ranking and maybe if they get a wildcard invitation as to whether they're on the start line mext year.

I doubt that Dave Brailsford being at the tour was just a recruitment exercise, though. Given their anti-doping stance, the general publicity around the team and the excellent performances by the Brits, I expect Dave was pressing the flesh at ASO to try and improve their chances of a place on the Tour.

I like to hope that he was invited there by the tour organisers.

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #718 on: 31 July, 2009, 12:26:20 pm »
I se that Contador is now definitely leaving Astana at the end of the season, despite a 4M euro a year deal for 4 years.  I take this to mean he's been tipped the wink that next year's Astana, which will be the Kazakh/Vino mafia, as opposed to this year's which is the Lance/Bruyneel team with light blue jerseys on, will not be riding the tour.  Which is a good thing.  I guess he'll join a Spanish team,

It seems that Lance and Johann are keeping their organisation together, with most of the riders to be retained, plus the support crew, Belgium base and infrastructure and so on.  All that seems about to change is a new source of cash, a new leader yet to be appointed, (but Bradley must be in with a shot given the Schlecks have said no) and the colour of the jersey.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #719 on: 31 July, 2009, 12:38:16 pm »
All that seems about to change is a new source of cash, a new leader yet to be appointed, (but Bradley must be in with a shot given the Schlecks have said no) and the colour of the jersey.

No team leader yet appointed... Does this mean that LA has officially given up hopes of winning the TdF again and will be working for some other GC contender of his choosing?

I'd love to see Wiggo get the kind of strong, well-drilled team and tactical genius of a Bruyneel/Armstrong organisation backing him as team leader. But I'd have mixed feelings about him actually joining their set-up.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

fuzzy

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #720 on: 31 July, 2009, 01:44:26 pm »
Braders has already stated he won't be part of the Team Sky/GB as he is contracted to Garmin.

gonzo

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #721 on: 31 July, 2009, 01:47:06 pm »
Braders has already stated he won't be part of the Team Sky/GB as he is contracted to Garmin.

That was before he came 4th and people started offering him big money!

Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #722 on: 31 July, 2009, 01:49:23 pm »
Who's offering him big money?  The Livestrong team?  If you had Kloden and Lephiemer and Armstrong, why would you need Wiggins?
His contract is up at the end of next year.  That's when he'll get his big money move.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #723 on: 31 July, 2009, 02:07:30 pm »
If you had Kloden and Lephiemer and Armstrong, why would you need Wiggins?

Which of Kloeden, Leipheimer and Wiggo would be the best horse to back for GC? It's a close call, but on current form, Wiggo might just shade it for me. Or maybe I'm letting patriotism cloud my judgment. I guess we didn't really see the best of Leipheimer in this tour.

But those three plus Lance working together... what an awesome team that would be - and why not have all four? It would only increase your chances of a win overall. Don't forget that in his heyday, Lance used to get riders working for him who might otherwise have had a good stab at winning themselves.

However, I suspect LA is more likely to want to poach his old mate George from Columbia than Wiggo from Garmin.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Gus

  • Loosing weight stone by stone
    • We will return
Re: Tour de France 09 (may contain spoilers)
« Reply #724 on: 31 July, 2009, 05:09:44 pm »