Heads up! Dr Who starts Saturday....

[MattH]

This series has been pish so far 

My daughter, who is early teens and so target audience AAIUI, shares this view (though not the way you phrased it  ). She's losing interest, and she was a massive fan.

[Flynn]

The magic wand is becoming seriously over-used.

[Hillbilly]

I do wonder with that kind of thing whether it is largely to drive sales of imitation sonic screwdrivers.

[citoyen]

My carp is why the monsters, which were the part-melted / burning-up future versions of the protagonists were so desperate to kill their own selves from slightly in their past? Maybe an exposition of why this was so was one of the bits that was lost in poor editing. I know its only a childrens' series but such a major plot facet as why the monsters were hell-bent on killing their past selves must have been thought through.

Yes, possibly lost in the editing. I liked it on the whole but it was a bit of a messy episode and felt very rushed.

Of course, the simplest explanation would be that the process of being melted just turned them into Scary Monsters. It didn't do much for their outward appearance, so it's bound to have mucked up their insides a bit too, right? If you want a more complex explanation, how about the partial melting process had left them in so much pain and torment that they wanted to kill their old selves to break the timeline and put themselves out of their misery by never having existed? Slightly paradoxical, but that's half the fun of it.

The magic wand is becoming seriously over-used.

Agreed. And the Big Friendly Button was a Deus Ex Machina too far for me.

[Steph]

I was not impressed this week. Now, the previous one: I am trying to remember who wrote the SF story that episode gratuitously ripped off, where a spaceman is returning in a different time rate so that he appears as a regular spectacle in a fixed place, his posture only very slightly different each time...

[Flynn]

I was not impressed this week. Now, the previous one: I am trying to remember who wrote the SF story that episode gratuitously ripped off, where a spaceman is returning in a different time rate so that he appears as a regular spectacle in a fixed place, his posture only very slightly different each time...

I've seen that used in the original Star Trek series and Babylon 5.

[citoyen]

Sounds like something Brian Aldiss might write.

[TimO]

I've seen the concept used in several science fiction books concerning time travel, it's not terribly original, although more so than the average Grandfather paradox time travel storyline.

[citoyen]

Diana Rigg! Strax! Vastra and Jenny!

And best of all... Thomas Thomas!

Superb.

[Rhys W]

Finally, an improvement, possibly the first in this series that didn't have me cursing a deus ex machina. I should have expected that it would Mark Gatiss who'd deliver. Nice bit of pre-electricity steampunk, Victorian smog and comedy Yorkshire accents.

When Jenny ripped off her crinoline to reveal a shiny catsuit and start high-kicking baddies... was that a tribute/reference to Diana Rigg?

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

There's trouble att' mill.

[David Martin]

Ay'up - how did it take me so long after thinking - he sounds just like a sat-nav to shorten the name. Doh!

[citoyen]

I should have expected that it would Mark Gatiss who'd deliver.

Didn't realise it was his. Obvious now you mention it though.

When Jenny ripped off her crinoline to reveal a shiny catsuit and start high-kicking baddies... was that a tribute/reference to Diana Rigg?

Oh yes, the style of fighting and everything was pure Emma Peel.

[bobb]

Mr Sweet freaked me the fuck out! 

[David Martin]

"Is that a lobster in your cleavage or are you just pleased to see me?"

[TimO]

Definitely a good episode, but the triumvirate of Madam Vastra, Jenny and Strax have always delivered.  Strax, and even Jenny to an extent in this episode, often manage to exceed their nominal employer, Madam Vastra!  Apparently we'll see them again later in this series, which is good.

The Tom-Tom reference was a mild joke, although it was clear from the moment he comes out with his directions that this was going to relate to car GPS units.  I'm not sure it was worth the contrived effort to insert it into the episode however, but it doesn't distract significantly.

It hadn't occurred to me, that Jenny in her catsuit, which we've seen before in A Good Man Goes to War, was a nod to Diana Rigg and The Avengers, but I'd imagine that it was a deliberate homage in this episode.  She certainly had a quick session of beating up the baddies, but realistically it didn't continue to the extremes that is often shown, with her attempting to fight a huge crowd of armed nasties, and instead they followed the Doctor's traditional maxim of running.

In some respects, there wasn't much of a story, but it had so many good little bits in it, that I'm not too fussed!

[Rhys W]

And best of all... Thomas Thomas!

Superb.

Ah, now I get it! 

[padbeat]

I've been reliably informedby Primo (14 years old) that yes ... it was Steampunk, but actually it was of the Ray-gun Gothic sub-genre. OK, if you insist.

Another nice nod to the Gothic that we picked up was the Doctor in red was very much Frankenstein's monster - from the way he moved and talked, the way Ada referred to him as her 'monster'.

I did wonder if Sweetville was a reference to Bourneville - an new town set up by a religious group.

In fact the only disappointment was that the title - The Crimson Menace - suggested some Lovecraftian shennanigans, of which there were none.

[TimO]

I was amused by Strax's comments about the North, although those of a more geographically northern tendency may be less so. Later on the Doctor refers to t'Mill in a slightly clichéd fashion, obviously making another joke at the expense of stereotypically Monty Pythonesque northernisms.

Madam Vastra's discussion of how Jenny would locate the Doctor, by following his methods was also worth a brief chuckle, even though it is somewhat accurate description of the technique he generally uses.

I think the Doctor alludes to Tegan Jovanka, when he talks about getting a gobby Australian to Heathrow Airport, although her appearances were mostly before my time, and I don't really recognise her.

I also wonder if Ada is referencing Ada Lovelace, given that hidden behind Mrs Gillyflower's organ is something that looks remarkably similar to a small element of Babbage's Analytical Engine?

[David Martin]

I did wonder if Sweetville was a reference to Bourneville - an new town set up by a religious group.

I did comment to TODM that Sweetville did have more than a passing resemblance to Wonkas chocolate factory, to the tune of 'Oh look, they borrowed the set'

[TimO]

Sweetville is definitely similar to locations such as Bournville and Saltaire, since that sort of arrangement was becoming popular in that era.  Willy Wonka's factory is probably also a similar homage, so it's not surprising that they are seen as looking much the same.

The tall chimney amongst the factory buildings and the close colocation of the workers cottages is more a reflection of the necessity of having a power source, which would have likely been steam, near to the factory, and obviously you also want the workers conveniently located nearby.  So a similar look is more simply just form following function, and a lack of our current enthusiasm for not putting houses near a potentially smoky and unpleasant industrial chimney.

[padbeat]

Ooooh, I've just noticed that next week's episode is by Neil Gaiman!

Don't let me down, fella!

Who else do we need to write an episode? Terry Pratchett? Can Douglas Adams's Shada be polished up and used? Could Garth Ennis tone down to a PG rating?

[Manotea]

Mebbe its me but afaiac this week's episode was entirely predicated on setting on the trail in the last couple of minutes and was otherwise a waste of time, and for that matter the trail doesn't  look promising. God save us, (Who will save us?) from introducing 'kids' into the storyline. Probably inevitable once Clara is defined as a nanny but really, the script writers are really scraping the barrel here....

And the cybermen yet again, yawn.

P.s, chicks in leather catsuits are only interesting if they clear the room. Taking out three with ease then running away is just a nonsense. Pathetic.

[BrianI]

I thought last nights episode was quite enjoyable!

(click to show/hide)

It would have been more interesting had the Doctor not been able to do a quick flash with his Sonic Screwdriver and become non red..  But no, Doctor in peril, quick flash of sonic screwdriver, Doctor no longer in peril

Nice to see the Hot Lizard Woman, Madam Vastra again!   

Although it will be interesting to see how the Cybermen weave into next weeks plot, they are becoming a bit over egged.....

[Flynn]

Mebbe its me but afaiac this week's episode was entirely predicated on setting on the trail in the last couple of minutes and was otherwise a waste of time, and for that matter the trail doesn't  look promising. God save us, (Who will save us?) from introducing 'kids' into the storyline. Probably inevitable once Clara is defined as a nanny but really, the script writers are really scraping the barrel here....

And the cybermen yet again, yawn.

P.s, chicks in leather catsuits are only interesting if they clear the room. Taking out three with ease then running away is just a nonsense. Pathetic.

The kids screamed to me that Clara and the kids may be the replacement for The Sarah Jane Chronicles following the death of Elizabeth Sladen.