Author Topic: Tandem Braking  (Read 14456 times)

Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #25 on: 23 November, 2012, 09:42:49 am »
Firstly I must own up that I have not had a tandem in 30 years, but before that I rode tandem quite a lot.  In the 1970s this was pre and post war stuff on which I used a pair of Weinemann centrepulls.  In 1981 I had a custom built double marathon frame.  This was at a time when Mafac cantis were about unavailable and Shimano etc had yet to introduce their cantis to the UK.  I had the frame built to take 3 Campag sidepulls with cable stops so that the second rear brake could be run from the front or the rear.  I always ran it operated from the front (a Mafac twin cable lever).  This braking set up worked fine around hills such as the Cotswolds.  Later I modified the set up to have cantis front and rear (leaving the second rear sidepull brake position unused) and a hub brake in the front.  The hub brake was operated from a second lever mounted underneath and to the side of my normal drop bar front brake lever.  It was a straight bar lever which had been reshaped to follow the curve of the bars somewhat.  This set up meant I could use 2 fingers on each of the front brake levers when braking from the drops.  Mostly I would use the hub brake and the rear brake when descending steep hills, leaving the front rim brake as back up.

I never put brakes or gear controls on the rear because I usually rode with inexperienced riders or non cyclists.

Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #26 on: 23 November, 2012, 09:54:30 am »
arresto-momentum

 ;D think I'll use this one

Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #27 on: 23 November, 2012, 10:28:08 am »
As Chris says, a snapped cable with only 2 brakes could be very life-shortening on a tandem - so there's certainly security there with 3.

If it is the rear brake, then this can be combatted by the stoker physically pushing a v-brake or canti on.  I can tell you that this is bloody scary and not a recommended long-term solution.

Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #28 on: 23 November, 2012, 10:51:12 am »
I'm tempted to get them fitted but not attached, then in extremis I'd only have to manually brake (:o Jasmine! ) once before we put the cables on for Chris. There are descents I'm not sure I'd be able to resist using them, and as clarion says above, I just can't see to know what is or isn't appropriate.

Placebo-brakes.

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
    • the_dandg_rouleur
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #29 on: 23 November, 2012, 11:00:31 am »
I added a drag brake to a friends tandem - an old Weinmann side pull calliper operated by a thumb shift on the stokers bars. Gave the stoker confidence that she had some control of the braking when descending in the recent Ullapool sportive - too much control IMO :(


Drag Brake by windy_, on Flickr


Drag Brake Off by windy_, on Flickr

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #30 on: 23 November, 2012, 11:37:39 am »
I had a drag drum brake on my tandem, operated by the captain, and took it off after a year of being unused. A pair of cantilevers worked fine for us, including in Tasmania. We could stop reasonably well with either brake alone. Never took it to the Alps but wouldn't mind taking a tandem into the big hills.

Keeping an eye on brake cables is always a good idea, more so on a tandem.

My suggestion is the third brake controlled by the captain. The stoker has the option of pulling the bare cable to actuate the brake, if the cable isn't fully sheathed.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #31 on: 23 November, 2012, 12:42:45 pm »
A drag brake on a friction shifter handily doubles as a parking brake, which is a good thing to have on a large unwieldy bicycle.  Either way, it's nice to have some sort of brake that can be applied while the stoker holds the bike from their position as the captain dismounts briefly to rummage in a pannier, inspect a hedge or whatever.

Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #32 on: 23 November, 2012, 03:02:34 pm »
Either way, it's nice to have some sort of brake that can be applied while the stoker holds the bike from their position as the captain dismounts briefly to rummage in a pannier, inspect a hedge or whatever.
Chris isn't allowed in the bag, and doesn't do hedge inspections (except on Tuesdays). I can only think of 2 occasions in our ~8,000 tandem km when I've held the bike from the stoker seat. (Well. frame, I can't reach the ground from the saddle).

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #33 on: 23 November, 2012, 03:07:28 pm »
Either way, it's nice to have some sort of brake that can be applied while the stoker holds the bike from their position as the captain dismounts briefly to rummage in a pannier, inspect a hedge or whatever.
Chris isn't allowed in the bag, and doesn't do hedge inspections (except on Tuesdays). I can only think of 2 occasions in our ~8,000 tandem km when I've held the bike from the stoker seat. (Well. frame, I can't reach the ground from the saddle).

Agreed - stoker should never really be in that situation - stoker's feet should never be on terra firma unless they are getting on or off the bike. 
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #34 on: 23 November, 2012, 03:12:10 pm »
stoker's feet should never be on terra firma unless they are getting on or off the bike. 
We break that 'rule' all the time. Chris'd break his legs trying to hold my lardy arse up at junctions and whatever. We get away well enough.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #35 on: 23 November, 2012, 03:16:42 pm »
When I'm stoking, my left foot gets deployed at junctions.  It's only fair.

As for brakes, we have cantis front and back on the Supergal.  We also swapped the drum brake for a disc brake at the last refurb.  That's operated by the stoker, and has been very very rarely used.  I think having the option of applying a brake (after suitable consultation with the pilot) is enough reassurance.
Getting there...

Chris S

Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #36 on: 23 November, 2012, 03:17:57 pm »
stoker's feet should never be on terra firma unless they are getting on or off the bike. 
We break that 'rule' all the time. Chris'd break his legs trying to hold my lardy arse up at junctions and whatever. We get away well enough.

OT

Luckily, we both lead with our right legs, and both ride fixed gear when on solos - so we've perfected the tandem-version of the fixed gear getaway. I don't think I could coordinate a getaway in the more traditional fashion - and didn't even try when I had No2Son in the stoker seat at the end of the Mildenhall 100 - and he weighs about 10g.

Kim

  • Timelord
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Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #37 on: 23 November, 2012, 03:58:16 pm »
stoker's feet should never be on terra firma unless they are getting on or off the bike. 
We break that 'rule' all the time. Chris'd break his legs trying to hold my lardy arse up at junctions and whatever. We get away well enough.

Even with wide, flat bars I've never been able to support the weight of an adult stoker (even a really underweight one) safely when stopped, let along set off while doing so.  I'm just not tall or strong enough, and don't really trust the grip of my bike shoes.

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #38 on: 23 November, 2012, 04:08:04 pm »
I guess it was one of the first things we were shown when we went to tandem school - including a scary (especially for Cass on the back) demonstration on "look how far over you can lean over  a tandem with stoker strapped in and not drop her"!). 

I'm not a big lad but can easily hold up tandem with panniers and stoker (who's a couple of kg heavier than me).

Anyway - each to their own!  With the stoker strapped in, Cass can really provide the power when we set off, so I can concentrate on going in a straight line and getting sat down etc. - very useful for hill starts as well.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #39 on: 23 November, 2012, 04:15:32 pm »
Despite him threatening to drop me, I had absolute faith in Wow after the first stop at a junction in Fulham on our test ride and didn't put a foot down unless instructed to for the whole of the Dun Run - I think maybe twice apart from when getting on or off.  At the time I think Wow was probably the only tandem captain on the forum that outweighed me.  He did comment that my being a shortarse helped as it at least meant a low centre of gravity :D

Stoking for Martin109 I discovered that, although I outweighed him by quite some margin, I had to trust him to hold the bike and me up when stopped, as I couldn't get even a toe down getting off the saddle - the standover height on Bertie is just too big for me. 

I wouldn't want a brake under my control.  I don't think I'd trust a captain who would trust me with one.  Pedal and not even need to follow, that's the joy of stoking for me.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #40 on: 23 November, 2012, 04:34:00 pm »
I found that a stoker brake lever is a noise damper.  Even at speed, there's now no shrieking from the back.
Getting there...

Pancho

  • لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #41 on: 23 November, 2012, 04:44:36 pm »
Am realising I'm a real tandem numpty.

I bought it off ebay and never went to tandem school (WTF?). I'm horrified now that I only have two brakes. And, what's all this "stoker's feet never on the ground"? Is it some cunning tactic to avoid the general confusion, swearing and skinned shins when trying to start/stop in coordination?

I'm amazed we made it round the IOW now.

Now you're going to report me to social services for having the sprogs in the trailer behind the tandem. I had to admit that that one did feel a little extreme.

Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #42 on: 23 November, 2012, 05:25:09 pm »
When clarion stokes, he has to put a foot down, as he says. Not just the weight, but I lean the bike a long way left (small feet being the issue, I think) and he doesn't, so now I (as the pilot) tend to put my feet up and clip in before setting off and it's a lot smoother. Before i was fighting with him to lean the bike far enough over and it didn't feel safe for either of us.  :D

My Circe doesn't have a third brake, but it does have big discs and usually only travel at speed when I'm alone so it's not heavily laden.
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

Wowbagger

  • Former Sylph
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #43 on: 26 November, 2012, 01:07:01 am »
Despite him threatening to drop me, I had absolute faith in Wow after the first stop at a junction in Fulham on our test ride and didn't put a foot down unless instructed to for the whole of the Dun Run - I think maybe twice apart from when getting on or off.  At the time I think Wow was probably the only tandem captain on the forum that outweighed me.  He did comment that my being a shortarse helped as it at least meant a low centre of gravity :D

Stoking for Martin109 I discovered that, although I outweighed him by quite some margin, I had to trust him to hold the bike and me up when stopped, as I couldn't get even a toe down getting off the saddle - the standover height on Bertie is just too big for me. 

I wouldn't want a brake under my control.  I don't think I'd trust a captain who would trust me with one.  Pedal and not even need to follow, that's the joy of stoking for me.

I'm not strong enough to old Mrs. Wow vertically on the tandem. She always puts a foot down when we stop. Life would be a lot easier if she didn't have to. Crinkly, on the other hand, I found fairly easy to hold upright. All that extra seatpost makes an awful lot of difference: Mrs. Wow is not just tall, she's got disproportionately long legs.

Nutkin, who is about the same height as Mrs. Wow, has a more normal torso:leg-length ratio. I can hold her up as well.

So far as braking is concerned, I find that our V-brakes are fine, but I have to anticipate in the wet, even with tungsten carbide rims and Swissstop blue. There was one hill a couple of weeks ago on which I thought the bloody thing was never going to stop. We weren't going quickly, we just didn't seem to be able to slow down, although of course it did eventually.
The loss of humanity I could live with.

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #44 on: 26 November, 2012, 02:35:37 pm »
We used to adopt a policy of Marj not putting a foot down at all except when dismounting.
Like Pancho I've committed the sin of towing a kiddie trailer behind the tandem. :thumbsup:

Our tandem had  vee brakes front & rear controlled by the pilot & a rear hub drag brake operated by the screamer stoker.

Panoramix

  • .--. .- -. --- .-. .- -- .. -..-
  • Suus cuique crepitus bene olet
    • Some routes
Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #45 on: 26 November, 2012, 02:44:24 pm »
Am realising I'm a real tandem numpty.

I bought it off ebay and never went to tandem school (WTF?). I'm horrified now that I only have two brakes. And, what's all this "stoker's feet never on the ground"? Is it some cunning tactic to avoid the general confusion, swearing and skinned shins when trying to start/stop in coordination?

I'm amazed we made it round the IOW now.

Now you're going to report me to social services for having the sprogs in the trailer behind the tandem. I had to admit that that one did feel a little extreme.

I think that we are two!
Chief cat entertainer.

Re: Tandem Braking
« Reply #46 on: 28 November, 2012, 12:33:37 pm »
We've got discs front and rear. BB7's with 200mm rotors.
They're fantastic & give allot of confidence on steep & fast descents. Most of the time single finger braking is sufficient.
You also get the benefit of consistent performance in the dry & wet.
After having used these I'm convinced that the future on all bikes is discs (just my opinion, don't all shoot me down!)
We've not descended any major alpine passes fully loaded, but they did cope with some super steep Devon hills ok.
 
That said, there aren't many frames & forks with disc mounts....yet.

To the OP: if you have an IS mount on the rear and are prepared to shell out for a new wheel, I'd recommend going disc.