Author Topic: Tandem thoughts  (Read 12103 times)

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Tandem thoughts
« on: 24 January, 2013, 02:05:46 pm »
Starting to think about buying a tandem - maybe - and I thought it might be nice to get some expert opinion/advice.

Bit of backstory - my better half suggested last year that we get a couple of bikes last year to get out and about on at the weekend.  So we got a couple of semi-decent bikes and got going.  Turns out she also had an ulterior motive to get me exercising again and (she clearly knows me too well) expected me to take to  it like a duck to water.  She was a bit too right for her own good.  It started out like that but I quickly stopped driving to work at all and commuted every day.  As I got fitter I got addicted and soon had two bikes and was jetting around up mountains and for long treks at the weekend.  Increasingly solo as I left her way behind in terms of both fitness, distance and getting out and about.
I've joined both the CTC and AUK, am doing a 200k audax this weekend (weather permitting) and am signed up for a further audax in Feb and a 100 mile sportive in April.  That might give you an idea of my sudden onslaught of enthusiasm for my new found hobby - we got our first bikes back at the end of May 2012.

Now I know she's a little (not too much) miffed about this and feels a bit left out but I'm actually very keen to get her out and about so she also can get fit, lose weight and get the same experience as I am getting.  If we do go out together (she's rather less enthusiastic about cycling in abominable weather than me) I tend to zoom off and come back to her to keep it all together.  It would be lovely to get out together as per the original plan.  I was going to enter both of us for a BP audax in Bristol in March but looking at the hilliness of it (Barry's Bristol Bash it was to be I think) I think it would be too much for her.

So I think it might be nice to get a tandem so that I can't run off - I can let her experience the zip and speed of how fast I go and more importantly she can get the distance in and see the world as it should be seen.
 
What I'm interested in is the logistics - I'm guessing this is accounted for but I'm 5' 10" and she's 5' 2" - how flexible are the frame sizes and is it a fixed position thing - do I always have to go up front as the stronger of the two?

How much of a dead weight is the unfitter of the two riders?  Not that this would necessarily stop me riding with her, you understand, just so I have some sort of idea about attempting to climb the north face of the Alpe d'Huez with someone who would potentially blow up within the first 100m of ascent (at the outset at least).

Are there issues with cornering that are significantly different to a normal bike? I don't want to have the responsibility of taking us both off after a fast descent or something.

Who controls gear changes and is much communication necessary for this sort of thing ("Ease up on the pedalling dear, going to the smaller ring!"*)?

Just advice on the general experience really.

Oh yeah, and how much is a tandem likely to slow me down with an unfit/inexperienced rider on board?  Closer to her pace, closer to mine, halfway betwixt?

Cheers for any helpful interesting comment in advance.  This will likely (or maybe) happen later in the year, from experience I know I won't get her out in wet weather yet...


* Ooerr missus!
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

dasmoth

  • Techno-optimist
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #1 on: 24 January, 2013, 02:13:15 pm »
The best way to find out if it's "right" for you or not is to go to a specialist tandem shop and ask to try one.  My wife and I did this a few years back, going to JD Cycles in Ilkley (they've since split off their tandem operations and moved down a few miles down the road, but they're still great).  At the time, Emily had done very little cycling and we were pretty unsure about the whole business.  Ten miles later, we knew we had to get one.

5'10 on the front (captain) and 5'2 on the back (stoker) should be a good fit for plenty of off-the-peg frames.  The other way round is harder, but not necessarily impossible.

Captain generally controls the gears and brakes.  The first time you ride, it definitely helps to call gear changes, pretty much exactly as you suggested.  After a few rides, it's much less of an issue.

Most tandems have pretty benign handling/cornering.  Try one!
Half term's when the traffic becomes mysteriously less bad for a week.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #2 on: 24 January, 2013, 02:19:55 pm »
Thanks for the reply.  I just looked up specialist tandem retailers and hit upon tandem hiring businesses-  now there's a good way of trying it.  And there's one smack on the Taff Trail here in Cardiff. Indeed I actually already know the joint and hadn't thought about it.   That's the ticket to begin I think :)
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #3 on: 24 January, 2013, 02:25:15 pm »
You would also be welcome to sample the delights of tandem riding around the Rutland area.
I have the Tandem and could also supply accomodation if required.
Yes, said tandem is for sale.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #4 on: 24 January, 2013, 02:49:02 pm »
Interesting, look for a PM  :thumbsup:
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #5 on: 24 January, 2013, 04:56:39 pm »
HIGHLY recommend going to a decent tandem retailer - if you're in Wales, your best bet might be Peter Bird over in Ironbridge - http://www.tandeming.co.uk/

My better half and I went and hired a tandem from him when we were considering purchasing one.  He spent an hour or so showing us how to ride a tandem (there's a few things that are a little counter intuitive).  He was superb and explained all the basic principles.

OK - you have a lot of questions:

Size difference - not that an unusual pair and I would have thought you'd have no problems buying off the peg.  It is certainly easier with the stronger rider up front, but by no means compulsory.

pretty much every other question you asked - EVERYTHING on a tandem is about communication and compromise

You will not move at the speed of the fastest rider, nor that of the slowest - you'll find your pace somewhere in the middle (if you try and tear her legs off, you won't be tandemming for too long!). 

Climbing hills on tandems is, typically, a fairly slow process compared to a decent solo rider - low gears, spin away.  On the flipside - downhills and flat bits, without too much effort you should be quicker (especially downhill where things get very fast, very quickly).

Typically the rider up front deals with gears, steering and braking.  The rear rider will deal with signalling, looking around before manouvering etc. So there's a lot of trust in both directions - up front, I have to have absolute trust in Cass if she is telling me it's okay to move lane etc. and she has to trust me not to steer us into a ditch.

Gear changes - you will call them a lot at first (and this is a good thing) - nowadays, neither of us say when we need to change up or down a gear, we just know.  We still tend to call front ring changes though.

Overall tandem experience - best way possible of cycling with someone who is of different pace/strength to you - no waiting at the top of hills, no being waited for.  Lots of talking.  Some bottom fondling.  Lots of attention wherever you pull up for a stop! 

They are fabulous things - take trust and communication - but if you can do it (and some couples just can't (and I don't think it has anything to do with the strength of their relationship or any subtext like that)), then you will never have more fun on a bike than riding on a bicycle made for two.

And the golden rule?  The stoker is ALWAYS right.  Follow that and your life will be easy. 
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #6 on: 24 January, 2013, 05:12:35 pm »
Great, thanks again, lots of good info there.

Some bottom fondling.
8) never thought of that, mmmm

And the golden rule?  The stoker is ALWAYS right.  Follow that and your life will be easy. 

Well that is of course true anyway  ;) , but I've been doing some erstwhile websurfing and yes, I've seen that piece of advice.  I already have to be very encouraging when we go out together otherwise the whole thing becomes a bit demoralising for her which is unfair as the whole point is to enjoy.  I think we'll probably go and hire one from pedalpower first - assuming I get a positive response when I suggest it tonight!
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #7 on: 24 January, 2013, 05:19:23 pm »
The bottom fondling is the best bit about being up front!

Cass and I have very different paces on solos - even day rides can involve frustration for both parties and I don't think we could tour on solos without killing each other.  A tandem solves all of this and we move at the pace the bike wants us to move at. 

Best of luck!
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

LeFlic

  • Retired and enjoying it!
    • Somer Valley Cycling Club
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #8 on: 24 January, 2013, 07:19:02 pm »
I won't repeat the advice about trying before you buy, gear changes and communication as that's been covered above.
What's will say is that I was in similar position to you three years ago and getting a tandem was the best thing we ever did.
Out on solos I got frustrated having to wait and my other half got fed up getting left behind. Since we got he tandem we have ridden many more miles together and have been able to join social club runs. I get a good workout and I think it is good training.
There are still odd things that cause problems, we still argue about cadence, apparently I pedal too fast!
If you can find a machine to try persevere, it can feel odd at first especially if the stoker is trying to steer, but once you get more confident it is great fun. Be conscious of how it feels for the stoker on descents, my wife sits on the back of my motorbike and is fine but some find the speed on descents a bit unnerving not having any control.
Good luck

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #9 on: 24 January, 2013, 07:51:15 pm »
Yes the training thing I was going to say but forgot.  I can imagine that after climbing on a tandem solo climbs must be easy in comparison.

I've broached the subject and she is quite receptive to the idea.  As  I said I think we'll try hiring one first...
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #10 on: 24 January, 2013, 08:05:02 pm »
You imagine wrong.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #11 on: 24 January, 2013, 08:15:48 pm »
Ha well, hope springs eternal
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #12 on: 24 January, 2013, 09:16:46 pm »
Tandeming:it's difficult to have more fun with your clothes on ;)

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #13 on: 24 January, 2013, 09:22:25 pm »
Size difference- no problem. We are an inch taller than you- Chris is 5'11" and I'm 5'3". I wouldn't want to go on the front, not because I'm a less strong rider (that's very much open to debate) but because I just don't have the upper body strength to hold him. That's the biggest difference in driving a tandem than a solo- the captain needs upper body strength that you can get away without having on a solo. The heavier your stoker the more true this is.
I have had all my children (now 14-20) and my mum on the back of my tandem (not all at once!) and the lighter they are the easier it is to manage- not while you're riding so much, but slow speed setting off and turns and stopping. Chris also finds slow speed turns (especially to the right) hard work with my massive bulk on the back. This is compensated by my being a huge engine on the flat.

Most couples get a tandem to even out the differences in their pace. That's less true for us than many- we rode together on solo bikes a lot before we were a couple, we naturally ride at a very similar pace. We're much faster on the tandem than we are on solos, on the flat, and steady climbs are OK. Long descents are brilliant (60+kph). Choppy terrain is less good, but that's more to do with our weight than tandeming per se.

I borrowed arabella's tandem before I bought one for child-ferrying duties and we tried that out on a 100k, then had another tandem long term loan before Chris splashed out on the Longstaff. There's a lot of tandems about, and most people (us included) are happy to let you have a try of theirs. You'd fit my Dawes and probably be OK on the Thorn we also have on loan. I'd think you're too small for the Swallow (as it was almost too big for us) and our Longstaff is not available for loan, as if the weather's any good, we're on it!

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #14 on: 25 January, 2013, 09:26:33 am »
Well I can do upper body strength - I used to play prop forward ;D  As you can imagine, I'm ideally built for the polka dot jersey - not :-\

The loan idea is nice - what friendly people I've stumbled across in this forum.
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #15 on: 25 January, 2013, 11:01:40 am »
Our tandem holidays were our best ever. Even though we were experienced, we always seemed to have a couple of ballistic near divorce arguments on the first day or so before getting into our routine.  My kids now prefer solo's and my wife and I aren't back into the tandem yet, though I live in hope.  My advice to anyone is to get a tandem.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #16 on: 26 January, 2013, 04:27:22 pm »
Although my wife and I are definitely hardcore tandem enthusiasts, I reckon that the tandem is not suitable for everyone.

The first question you should ask yourself is:

Whenever you are not at work, or sleeping, or fulfilling other duties, do you, and your partner, prefer to  have common leisure activities, or separate ones?
If your answer is "common", chances are that you will be happy on a tandem, even if one of you have never cycled. That's our case. I'm a former racer, my wife had
(almost) never cycled until 3 years ago, and now we regularly do 500+ km rides on weekends. If your answer is "separate", the tandem will work as a surprisingly
efficient divorce machine. I sincerely hope that you are in the first category!

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #17 on: 26 January, 2013, 07:01:49 pm »
LW&B said that the tandem is a relationship accelerator. Wherever it's going, it'll get there quicker on a tandem...

Wowbagger

  • Former Sylph
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #18 on: 27 January, 2013, 08:20:21 am »
We still use the tandem although we haven't toured on it for a couple of years. We had a set of bad experiences bringing it back from Scotland on the trains: it comes apart with S & S couplings, but they are a mixed blessing. Excellent for utilising combined storage space but a nightmare if you need to change trains with a tight deadline. You are left on a station platform with a pile of luggage and two halves of a tandem which are a bit fiddly to reassemble.

The bad experience is beginning to fade in my memory. I toured on it last year with another lady (with my wife's permission) and we had a great time. We are thinking about another tour this year - at least, I am! My wife rides a solo machine and she's a perfectly good cyclist, but she lacks confidence in traffic and with route finding. She gets paranoid that we will get split up in some remote area so the tandem is great for her peace of mind. It's not so good for my back though: I too am a former prop forward but I've been diagnosed with osteoporosis.
The loss of humanity I could live with.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #19 on: 27 January, 2013, 09:42:30 am »
Half recumbent tandems are said to be good for couples who are not matched in cycling ability or interest.

The person at the front gets a seat, so no saddle soreness problems, and they can easily hold a map, take a drink/snack or pass a drink/snack to the rider behind.

It's also easier to chat as you go along.

Perhaps the biggest advantage is you can both see where you are going, instead of the limited view of the stoker on a traditional tandem.

The downside might be the price:

http://www.tandems.co.uk/m3b0s78p97/HASE-Pino-Tour-Half-Recumbent-Tandem-Bicycle


Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #20 on: 27 January, 2013, 11:10:24 am »
Half recumbent tandems are said to be good for couples who are not matched in cycling ability or interest.

The person at the front gets a seat, so no saddle soreness problems, and they can easily hold a map, take a drink/snack or pass a drink/snack to the rider behind.

It's also easier to chat as you go along.

Perhaps the biggest advantage is you can both see where you are going, instead of the limited view of the stoker on a traditional tandem.

The downside might be the price:

http://www.tandems.co.uk/m3b0s78p97/HASE-Pino-Tour-Half-Recumbent-Tandem-Bicycle

I really like the look of this, has anyone tried one?

We have a tandem but the other half is not so keen now, mainly due to being a bit nervous on the rear when she's not in control (she's the same when a passenger in a car.) Also because of seat comfort issues! This could be the solution...

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #21 on: 27 January, 2013, 01:01:34 pm »
Tim Hall has a Pino.
Getting there...

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #22 on: 27 January, 2013, 01:20:11 pm »
Clarion speaks the truth.  I have a Pino*. Would you like to have a go on it?  I'm in W Sussex.


(* I'm mid fettle of the gears, so soon I'll have a working one)
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #23 on: 27 January, 2013, 02:34:05 pm »
Clarion speaks the truth.  I have a Pino*. Would you like to have a go on it?  I'm in W Sussex.

Yes please! Unlikely that we will be able to get down to W Sussex until the summer though. I will PM you nearer the time to see if we can fix up a mutually convenient date. In the meantime, have a virtual beer on me, cheers!

her_welshness

  • Slut of a librarian
    • Lewisham Cyclists
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #24 on: 27 January, 2013, 05:25:58 pm »
Although my wife and I are definitely hardcore tandem enthusiasts, I reckon that the tandem is not suitable for everyone.

The first question you should ask yourself is:

Whenever you are not at work, or sleeping, or fulfilling other duties, do you, and your partner, prefer to  have common leisure activities, or separate ones?
If your answer is "common", chances are that you will be happy on a tandem, even if one of you have never cycled. That's our case. I'm a former racer, my wife had
(almost) never cycled until 3 years ago, and now we regularly do 500+ km rides on weekends. If your answer is "separate", the tandem will work as a surprisingly
efficient divorce machine. I sincerely hope that you are in the first category!

This. This. This.

Welcome to the forum Caerau! Have you asked her how she feels about riding tandem?