Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Racing => Topic started by: andyoxon on 20 August, 2023, 04:52:15 pm

Title: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 20 August, 2023, 04:52:15 pm
 7 of 9 stgs to the first rest day are Hilly / Mountain stgs...  :)

https://www.lavuelta.es/en

Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: rafletcher on 20 August, 2023, 07:37:41 pm
Highlights on Quest.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 26 August, 2023, 05:55:56 pm
Wet TT course...  & dark. 
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: quixoticgeek on 26 August, 2023, 09:34:59 pm


Wtf. Racing in the dark ?!?!

J
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: JonBuoy on 26 August, 2023, 09:51:51 pm


Wtf. Racing in the dark ?!?!

J

Last start time:  20:19

Typical stage time:  18:00

Finishing at :  20:37

Sunset in Barcelona:  20:33

Close enough!
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: quixoticgeek on 26 August, 2023, 09:59:57 pm

Last start time:  20:19

Typical stage time:  18:00

Finishing at :  20:37

Sunset in Barcelona:  20:33

Close enough!

Except the rain made it darker for even those before sunset.

Why so late ?!?

J
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 26 August, 2023, 10:55:23 pm
Because Spain and TV.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: quixoticgeek on 26 August, 2023, 11:06:04 pm


Maybe the UCI should require lights and mudguards in these conditions...

J
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 26 August, 2023, 11:25:45 pm
Remco on the late timing...  https://twitter.com/GcnRacing/status/1695540467041984793?s=20

ETA.   The team finishing in the dark (those headlights!)... https://twitter.com/eurosport/status/1695510092798394661?s=20

Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: quixoticgeek on 26 August, 2023, 11:28:35 pm
Remco on the late timing...  https://twitter.com/GcnRacing/status/1695540467041984793?s=20

He's not wrong.

J
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: morbihan on 27 August, 2023, 10:55:50 am
could start a whole aerodynamics/weigh/drag discussion on the merits of a TT bike set up with a dynamo or a battery light.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Peter on 27 August, 2023, 11:43:57 am
But fortunately we're not going to bother!
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 27 August, 2023, 08:01:56 pm
Another 'strange' day.  Hopefully some GC action tomorrow.

Had forgotten that we don't get the first ~2hrs of coverage on GCN/Discovery+ for some 'rights' reason...
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: quixoticgeek on 27 August, 2023, 08:05:16 pm


Wtf was that?

J
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 29 August, 2023, 11:05:38 pm
Groves is looking good in the sprints. 
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Stuart Anderson on 30 August, 2023, 08:18:05 pm
Highlights on Quest.

The main TV was taken up by the kids tonight so I thought I'd watch it on my mobile phone via the Freeview app. No joy. The channel is not coming up as playable at all. I did have to retune the TV the other night to watch highlights. Google informs me Quest have changed frequency. Might this be why? Any other Android/Freeview users watching successfully?

Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Basil on 30 August, 2023, 09:05:45 pm
Quest is chanel 167 on my FreeSat.
Not tried watching the Vuelta on it.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 31 August, 2023, 01:56:28 pm
... Might this be why? Any other Android/Freeview users watching successfully?

Tried the Freeview app on Android.  iplayer worked through the freeview app, but not Quest.  Also I couldn't see a 'stand alone' Quest app, that may be req'd to work in tandem, as iplayer does.

ETA.  Have Discovery+ here.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 31 August, 2023, 02:37:11 pm
Possible strategic blunder currently in progress...
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Stuart Anderson on 31 August, 2023, 07:46:48 pm
... Might this be why? Any other Android/Freeview users watching successfully?

Tried the Freeview app on Android.  iplayer worked through the freeview app, but not Quest.  Also I couldn't see a 'stand alone' Quest app, that may be req'd to work in tandem, as iplayer does.

Discovery channel have it on but there's a fee... So not happening.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: rafletcher on 01 September, 2023, 08:14:03 am
Highlights on Quest.

The main TV was taken up by the kids tonight so I thought I'd watch it on my mobile phone via the Freeview app. No joy. The channel is not coming up as playable at all. I did have to retune the TV the other night to watch highlights. Google informs me Quest have changed frequency. Might this be why? Any other Android/Freeview users watching successfully?

Doesn’t work for catch-up on iOS either.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: alfapete on 01 September, 2023, 08:36:23 am
Highlights on Quest.

The main TV was taken up by the kids tonight so I thought I'd watch it on my mobile phone via the Freeview app. No joy. The channel is not coming up as playable at all. I did have to retune the TV the other night to watch highlights. Google informs me Quest have changed frequency. Might this be why? Any other Android/Freeview users watching successfully?

Doesn’t work for catch-up on iOS either.


You're missing a great event!

What would happen if Primoz and Jonas rode for Sepp for the next two weeks? It would pay him back for his support in recent years. Or would that just open the door for Remco?
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Flite on 01 September, 2023, 11:39:48 am
I'd love to see Sep Kuss win a lot more. But I suspect there are bigger egos in that team.

On the other hand, I was cheering on Bardet - can't remember when he was so high up on a stage of a GT?
And he still looks like a teenager
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Nuncio on 01 September, 2023, 11:47:30 am
Possible strategic blunder currently in progress...
It's difficult to work out what happened when coverage only started with about 85km to go and the commentators were saying that they'd had incomplete and conflicting information as to what had happened up to that point.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: rafletcher on 01 September, 2023, 01:00:29 pm
Highlights on Quest.

The main TV was taken up by the kids tonight so I thought I'd watch it on my mobile phone via the Freeview app. No joy. The channel is not coming up as playable at all. I did have to retune the TV the other night to watch highlights. Google informs me Quest have changed frequency. Might this be why? Any other Android/Freeview users watching successfully?

Doesn’t work for catch-up on iOS either.


You're missing a great event!


No I’m not, I’m recording it  :). Well highlights anyway.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 01 September, 2023, 01:33:11 pm
I'd love to see Sep Kuss win a lot more. But I suspect there are bigger egos in that team.

On the other hand, I was cheering on Bardet - can't remember when he was so high up on a stage of a GT?
And he still looks like a teenager

Yes, great to see Sepp Kuss win, shame not to see him in red, but Martinez (20yrso) did very well too.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 02 September, 2023, 04:17:12 pm
The Kuss-Vingegaard-Roglic 'GC' trio is going to be tricky to counter...
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Peter on 02 September, 2023, 11:45:15 pm
Yes.  Beginning to wonder if JV* is secretly owned by Saudi Arabia.  It's becoming as predictable as football (unless you are Brighton ...).

* Jumbo Visma, not Jonas Vingegaard, though I suppose he would be included.  Only just noticed the JVs!
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: RichForrest on 02 September, 2023, 11:59:24 pm
Yes.  Beginning to wonder if JV* is secretly owned by Saudi Arabia.  It's becoming as predictable as football (unless you are Brighton ...).

* Jumbo Visma, not Jonas Vingegaard, though I suppose he would be included.  Only just noticed the JVs!

1st thought here on JV was Jonathan Vaughters.
Must listen to Bobby and Jens too much  ;D
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Peter on 03 September, 2023, 12:07:05 am
 ;D
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 03 September, 2023, 11:14:21 am
It could be that Remco's only chance to claw back significant time on Kuss is in the TT?  Stg 6 was not good for Soudal.

ETA.  When will Rog-Ving become a pair of super domestiques?   ;)
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Nuncio on 03 September, 2023, 12:29:49 pm
I'm not sure if this counts as a spoiler given that there will be no coverage of it but currently
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 03 September, 2023, 01:22:26 pm
I'm sure it won't last but it's a shame we won't be able to see it.

Wondering who, if anyone, gets to see the first 2hrs/100km ish?  Eurosport in EU?
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Nuncio on 03 September, 2023, 03:45:20 pm
Isn't it up to the host tv service, so if the motorcyle cameras are not taking pictures nor the helicopters up to relay them, then there's nothing for anyone to see? I think we've been spoilt in recent years by live coverage from the start in the Grand Tours and classics, and I do enjoy seeing the battle for the break. I don't know why it's not happening for the majority of stages in this Vuelta.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: quixoticgeek on 03 September, 2023, 07:49:54 pm


Can someone explain why the GC timing point was moved by 2km today? How does it work?
J
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: TheLurker on 03 September, 2023, 08:32:50 pm
Quote from: quixoticgeek
Can someone explain why the GC timing point was moved by 2km today?
Filthy weather.

Quote from: quixoticgeek
How does it work?
Not a clue old bean, not a clue.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Nuncio on 03 September, 2023, 09:14:50 pm
Excess of mud on the road a couple of hundred meetings from the end.
 
Timings for the GC and various competitions taken at the revised 'finish' point (and presumably also positions for the points jersey), but the winner of the stage decided by who crossed the 'real' finish time first.  Similar to what happened on the second stage, ending in Barcelona.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: quixoticgeek on 03 September, 2023, 09:17:14 pm
Excess of mud on the road a couple of hundred meetings from the end.
 
Timings for the GC and various competitions taken at the revised 'finish' point (and presumably also positions for the points jersey), but the winner of the stage decided by who crossed the 'real' finish time first.  Similar to what happened on the second stage, ending in Barcelona.

I didn't understand what happened in Barcelona either...

J
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Nuncio on 03 September, 2023, 10:21:28 pm
For all the competitions which end at the end of the the final stage (GC, points, young rider, team, mountains(?)) today's stage ended at the revised finish point, and that's where the times were taken and bonus seconds awarded. At that point there was nothing more for the GC riders to race for, which is why they started cruising. The winner of the stage was decided by who passed the original finish line 2km further on. So it would have been possible for a rider to have won the stage but to have dropped drop down the GC. 

Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Salvatore on 04 September, 2023, 11:05:36 am
It was considered too dangerous for GC riders to sprint for the line on a muddy road, but not too dangerous for the pawns in the breakaway to sprint for the line on a muddy road.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: rafletcher on 08 September, 2023, 08:12:42 pm
Wow, that was something unique today.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 09 September, 2023, 09:57:21 am
Wow, that was something unique today.

Wadda day on the Tourmalet!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 09 September, 2023, 02:59:56 pm
Wait...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: rafletcher on 09 September, 2023, 08:15:29 pm
Wow. What a ride. Chapeau.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 10 September, 2023, 02:19:41 pm
Remco seems to be in his element chasing mountain tops & stages...
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 13 September, 2023, 10:04:05 am
Angliru!

(https://img.aso.fr/core_app/img-cycling-vue-png/e17-ve23-l-angliru/16772/0:0,1100:1797-500-0-70/d84fb)
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Nuncio on 13 September, 2023, 11:21:05 am
It will be interesting to see if/when the Lotto triumvirate co-operation shifts to outright competition.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 13 September, 2023, 06:27:06 pm
Post Angliru, JV & PR seem to be disrespecting SK...
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: spesh on 13 September, 2023, 06:57:44 pm
Another way of looking at it is that going into the race, the Jumbo-Visma plan was for either Vingegaard or Roglič to go for a second GT win in one season*, with Kuss being the mountain super-domestique in support.

While Kuss winning the Vuelta would make for Jumbo winning all three GTs this year with different riders, I suspect that in reality, he knows his place:

Quote
"I came here with no expectations and was just looking to help out the guys like always. Then I came into this beautiful jersey and I discovered a new level of self-confidence and racing instinct," said Kuss, who has led since stage eight.
...

Jumbo-Visma boss Grischa Niermann said: "I think everyone would like to have Sepp in the lead and he's still in the lead, but they also want to win the stage and we agreed that everybody is allowed to go for it."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/66801381


* Last achieved by Chris Froome in 2017 when he won the Tour and Vuelta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Crown_of_Cycling#Winning_two_grand_tours_in_one_year).
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 13 September, 2023, 08:03:05 pm
Yes, I suspect it's a between the lines 'know your place'.  It's clear that the team is not saying 'you two support Sepp this could be his moment'; which is a shame, and it's not as though there's a small margin between three Jumbo riders and the next rider in 4th - almost 3 minutes. 
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Peter on 13 September, 2023, 08:54:26 pm
I think we'd all like to see Kuss win but the way for him to do that is to beat Roglic and Vingegaard.  It's one thing to give someone a stage, quite another to throw a tour.  And anyone who thinks Vingegaard is going to give anybody (including Roglic) anything more than a stage is almost certainly mistaken.  He hasn't got the face or the words for it judging by his post-race interview.  He looked extremely uncomfortable, to be fair.  Primoz looked much more cheerful, but he was lying in his teeth, too.  The most elegant solution might be for Roglic and V to find ways to abandon.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 14 September, 2023, 09:47:00 am
This final stage mountain stage should be interesting.  Perhaps JV/PR are just hoping SK will 'bow out' and take one for the team i.e. them.  Hope SK gives it everything he's got, to stay in red.  It's reasonably clear that 'every man for himself' JV & PR regard themselves as 'too important' to be team players when it comes to defending the team's late stages red jersey held by a 'team super who's done well'.  All this 'I wanted to win because it's my [insert close family member's] birthday today', doesn't really wash either...   ;)
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Peter on 14 September, 2023, 10:42:27 am
Especially since Sep Kuss is a Jumbo family member and it was his birthday yesterday and they gave him ..... nowt.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: rafletcher on 14 September, 2023, 12:25:01 pm
Why Kuss probably won't win, and why he should.

https://twitter.com/Laura_Meseguer/status/1702043007678140509
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 14 September, 2023, 03:51:25 pm
The Boa's constricting... 
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Peter on 14 September, 2023, 08:36:50 pm
Anyone else think there's a little of Eddy about Remco?
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 14 September, 2023, 10:02:43 pm
Anyone else think there's a little of Eddy about Remco?

Apparently at 19 yrso, he said 'I'm not the new Merckx, I'm the new Evenepoel.'
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Peter on 14 September, 2023, 10:40:50 pm
I think he's pretty amazing, though I understand that there are/have been controversies with van Aert and Merckx.  But there's room for all - especially those three!  It was his tendency to win races by so much which put me in mind of Eddy.
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 15 September, 2023, 11:34:39 am
'LBL-like' Stg20, 208km / 4000m+ (Sat.) looks like another Remco kind of day...
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: Peter on 16 September, 2023, 07:55:17 pm
'LBL-like' Stg20, 208km / 4000m+ (Sat.) looks like another Remco kind of day...

And very nearly was!
Title: Re: La Vuelta 2023
Post by: andyoxon on 17 September, 2023, 06:52:03 pm
 :o