Track ends vs horizontal dropouts?

[phantasmagoriana]

I used to have a frame with horizontal dropouts. I had no problems with them; the wheel was easy to remove and replace, even with mudguards. My current frame has track ends, and I don't think I like them at all. Removing the wheel is a pain, especially with mudguards, as there isn't much slack in the chain, and adding a link to it so the wheel sits further back (or flipping the wheel around to use the smaller sprocket on the other side) messes up the brake position.

So - probably a daft question but I'd like to know - what are the advantages of track ends over forward-facing horizontal dropouts?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The head and seat angles and BB height doesn't change with the fore/aft position of the rear wheel.

[Deano]

They look cool, obviously.

They do make it a bit easier to remove the wheel in a non-mudguard situation, and tend to be longer, meaning you can have a greater range of gears with a flip-flop hub, though there's no reason you couldn't have longer dropouts.

You can use the quick release thingies from front mudguards on the rear to make wheel removal a bit easier with track ends, though I've never bothered.

[drossall]

You can use chain tugs with track ends. They can be very good for keeping a wheel in place and the chain tensioned.

[Ian H]

I don't understand the problem with mudguards and track-ends. Surely you just set the guard with enough clearance to remove the wheel. At least, that's what I used to do.

Current fixed has road drop-outs and works well. Good axle nuts with integral spinning washers are the essential minimum for a secure wheel.

[phantasmagoriana]

I don't understand the problem with mudguards and track-ends. Surely you just set the guard with enough clearance to remove the wheel.

There's nowhere near enough clearance on my frame to do that, unfortunately.

[phantasmagoriana]

They do make it a bit easier to remove the wheel in a non-mudguard situation

Really? I find it much easier with forward-facing dropouts, even without mudguards.

You can use the quick release thingies from front mudguards on the rear to make wheel removal a bit easier with track ends, though I've never bothered.

What do you do if you get a puncture - undo the mudguard bolts? I have the QR thingies already, and that's faffy enough...

[tatanab]

There's nowhere near enough clearance on my frame to do that, unfortunately.

I do not understand that.  The mudguard is simply set far enough back from the tyre that the wheel can come out of the dropout.  To remove the wheel, dislodge the chain from the sprocket, if that does not give enough movement then dislodge from the chainwheel, and pull wheel backwards.  No fuss, other than the mudguard position looks a bit messy. Alternatively you could use the same safety connectors used on front mudguards and simply pop out the mudguard stays.  I do not do that because I find they rattle after a couple of years.

Edited to add link to photo of mine http://www.flickr.com/photos/78958939@N05/11114866133/

[phantasmagoriana]

Ah, I see - the stays on mine aren't long enough to do that. I've taken them off for now, anyway, because I was sick of them getting clogged up with mud...

I should probably get new ones anyway, as that set came off another bike and are a bit knackered.

[Tomsk]

Hmmm....Track ends are designed for Track bikes and the stresses of sprinting with Hoy-like thigh muscles. They look cool and so Hipsters like them.

Horizontal [or actually sloping down a bit] ends are designed for the real world of fixed/free/Sturmey 3-speed and mudguards....punctures....etcetera.

[Ewan Houzami]

^ This. And the axle can't get pulled out of the frame no matter how many mega-torques your Hoy-like thize can apply. As per Tomsk, road ends are the sensible choice for normal (non-track) use.

[mzjo]

The head and seat angles and BB height doesn't change with the fore/aft position of the rear wheel.

This is a factor of frame design, not of forkend design. There was a Speedwell track frame in the 70's that was specifically designed to steepen the angles when the wheel was moved forward in the ends. It was considered an advantage on steep tracks to lift the BB.

I have track ends on my tandem ('cos it's vintage) and they are a pain, even with a derailleur. I always put the wheel in deflated and pump it up in place.

The only use that I know for rear-facing fork-ends on a road bike is on a TT frame with a derailleur to adjust the rear wheel as close as possible to the seat-tube.

[clarion]

You can use chain tugs with track ends. They can be very good for keeping a wheel in place and the chain tensioned.

Most track ends.  I never found any chain tugs which would fit my Ridgeback Solo (so, also, presumably, Genesis Skylines and Flyers).

[LEE]

Mudguard solution as mentioned above.

Quick release jobbies are available at SJSC for a couple of quid meaning you can just pop the rear of the mudguard out when needed and leave a close fit at other times.



Note.  I run Single-Speed and would happily have forward facing drop outs but, in the grand scheme of things, it probably adds about 30 seconds to a repair.  It's actually more of a faff to slacken off the tension bolts so I can get the chain off before removing the wheel.

[phantasmagoriana]

I've just refitten the mudguards, with another set of stays I had lying around (they're a bit longer). I've left a big gap at the back as tatanab suggested upthread. It's not very aesthetically pleasing, but I'll see whether it works.

[Deano]

They do make it a bit easier to remove the wheel in a non-mudguard situation

Really? I find it much easier with forward-facing dropouts, even without mudguards.

There's not much in it, but I do find it easier to remove a wheel on a frame with track ends. Just push the wheel forward enough to be able to lift the chain off the sprocket, then the wheel comes out. Even with mudguards, which I have set so as to give me a bit of room.