Author Topic: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.  (Read 8977 times)

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #25 on: 16 October, 2017, 07:09:58 pm »
I was living in Horsham at that time so pretty much in the thick of it. My experience of it? Well the letter box flap rattled once o twice but I managed to ignore it and slept like a baby. Got up looked out at the scene of bins rolling around saplings flattened and an eerie lack of traffic...
Then I went out to walk to my bosses for a lift. Trees uprooted, sheds perched on hedges, householders wondering how their fence had finished up where it did.
My route took me over a level crossing and I amazed to see the amount of oxidation on the rails, this was main commuter line not some derelict siding, weird. Boss said work was cancelled. So I went back home, several pots of tea later I mooched down try to the pub, which was open despite no power, the ale was all hand pumped so winner all round!
" One Cup Of Tea Is Never Enough But 2 Is One Too Many " - John Shuttleworth

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #26 on: 16 October, 2017, 07:51:59 pm »
I remember it well. I didn't have to go to school as it no longer had a roof...
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #27 on: 16 October, 2017, 08:05:01 pm »
This weekend I felled my first victims of Ash Dieback, so the cycle may repeat itself. I'm concerned that the response is a bit slow. Standing dead trees are hard to fell, as you can't influence the direction of fall. That caused deaths in the 70s and 80s with Elm. I foresee similar problems with Ash.

Out of interest, what can you do with live trees you can't with dead ones?

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #28 on: 16 October, 2017, 08:07:33 pm »
I'm guessing that with dead trees:
A) there can be rot in the trunk affecting how the trunk will 'break'
B) for safety reasons, you can't climb the tree and take limbs off to alter the balance of the tree
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Aunt Maud

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #29 on: 16 October, 2017, 08:11:01 pm »
Plus you need to watch out for Widowmakers.

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #30 on: 16 October, 2017, 09:25:59 pm »
I was in Epsom living with my parents. Work was on top of a hill just North of Sevenoaks.

I slept through it.

Mrs hatler on the other hand spent the evening at her parents' (between Sevenoaks and Tonbridge) and then headed home to a farm she was staying in about four miles away. Her pop warned her to go easily as it was a bit blowy. She recalls it being very warm. She too slept through it.

Next morning the quad in front of the farm house was littered with fallen several hundred year old oaks. Her Fiat 126 survived, but they had no power for a couple of weeks. It took her four days to get back to see her parents. When she got there her parents were in tears as their orchard of hundreds of trees was reduced to about 20. (They couldn't face clearing that field for about 15 years.)

My work was closed for a week, trees down everywhere.

My brother lived in one of the squares on Brighton seafront above Madeira drive), in a fourth floor flat. He was a journo working on the Evening Argus. He woke at 3am to the sound of pebbles hitting his windows !  He deduced (correctly) that there was probably a story or two to be had, so he set off for work. The only safe way to do this was to wait for a slight lull in the wind, then run to the next lamp-post and hang on until the wind eased enough for him to run to the next one.
Rust never sleeps

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #31 on: 16 October, 2017, 09:27:37 pm »
Plus you need to watch out for Widowmakers.
Is that elm trees ?
Rust never sleeps

Kim

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #32 on: 16 October, 2017, 09:37:24 pm »
Submarines, I thought.  (I'm still avoiding them.)

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #33 on: 16 October, 2017, 09:52:08 pm »
This weekend I felled my first victims of Ash Dieback, so the cycle may repeat itself. I'm concerned that the response is a bit slow. Standing dead trees are hard to fell, as you can't influence the direction of fall. That caused deaths in the 70s and 80s with Elm. I foresee similar problems with Ash.

Out of interest, what can you do with live trees you can't with dead ones?

When you are felling it's important to know that the tree is going to go in the right direction. You do that by creating a 'hinge'. http://www.husqvarna.com/uk/forest/when-working/usage/directional-felling/

That requires that the tree can move through a long enough arc without the hinge breaking, a dead tree isn't flexible enough to have an effective hinge, so will always tend to fall in the direction it is weighted in, if you are trying to pull it over with a winch, it will tend to fall at 90 degrees to the cable. It can then 'hang up'. Many fatalities occur when trying to bring down hung-up trees.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/treework/resources/casestudies.htm

Quote
A 29-year old self-employed firewood supplier was crushed by a falling tree. He had been asked to take down a number of mature hardwood trees on a farm and was being assisted by the farmer. A large beech tree was next to a road so a tractor, operated by the farmer, was being used to help direct the tree away from the road. Tension had being applied to the tree by a strop and rope attached to the tractor. It appears that the contractor had difficulties in making the felling cut and had failed to create a sufficient hinge to help control the tree as it fell.  Before the felling cut was complete the tree started to go over but, despite the tension being applied by the tractor, it turned and fell back towards the road. The tree landed on top of the contractor as he tried to get clear, causing severe crush injuries to his chest, abdomen and spine.

How to prevent this type of accident:

Directional felling of large trees is highly skilled work and those carrying out the work must have the required level of training and experience to ensure that they are competent to do the job safely. It involves competent people using the correct equipment and felling techniques.

If you use a contractor to carry out tree work on your behalf then you need to satisfy yourself that the contractor you choose can do the job safely. This means making enquiries to assure yourself that the contractor has the right combination of skills, experience and knowledge. The degree of competence and, therefore, the extent of your enquiries will be determined by the level of risks and the complexity of the job.

Find out more:

FISA 805 Training and certification link to external website
INDG368 Using contractors - A brief guide PDF
Tree climbing operations AFAG 401 PDF
Chainsaws at work INDG 317
FISA 307 Chainsaw felling of large trees link to external website
FISA 310 Use of winches in directional felling and takedown link to external website link to external website

There'll be a lot of cases like that in the coming weeks.

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #34 on: 16 October, 2017, 11:26:48 pm »
I remember a lot of Tree fellers & round timber hauliers from the north east , went out to Germany to help clear up the storm damaged forests . A lot of lads commented on how well the job was organised . Made the ( UK ) forestry commission look like amateur night.
Its More Fun With Three .

hellymedic

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #35 on: 16 October, 2017, 11:45:48 pm »
It was a bit blowy. I was staying with my parents.
The Succah my young brother had built for the recent Jewish festival of Succot, remained intact.

Jaded

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #36 on: 17 October, 2017, 08:02:21 am »
I’m sure we’ve had a thread about this before as I remember writing something similar before, but here goes!

We had a nice quiet night in Manchester, and put the tellybox on to see the news being read by someone lit by a single lightbulb. I thought war must have broken out. We got on and went about or daily lives. Later we went to the Brockham Bonfire and were amazed at the damage across the SE.

It was definitely a storm for the rich South East  ;D
It is simpler than it looks.

Aunt Maud

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #37 on: 17 October, 2017, 09:08:05 am »
Plus you need to watch out for Widowmakers.
Is that elm trees ?

They are hung up broken branches in the crowns of trees, which have a tendency to drop on the head of whoever is felling the tree at the time, and account for something like 11% of chainsaw related fatalities.

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #38 on: 17 October, 2017, 09:32:27 am »
Plus you need to watch out for Widowmakers.
Is that elm trees ?

They are hung up broken branches in the crowns of trees, which have a tendency to drop on the head of whoever is felling the tree at the time, and account for something like 11% of chainsaw related fatalities.

Very true.

Quote
A 43-year old estate worker was struck by a tree branch. He was a qualified and experienced forester felling a diseased elm tree with a chainsaw in a remote woodland gulley. As the tree fell in the planned direction, a dead branch dropped and struck him on the head. The branch may have either fallen out of the felled tree or an adjacent tree that it was entangled with. Despite wearing an appropriate helmet, he died from head injuries.

How to prevent this type of accident:

Be very thorough in your assessment of the tree being felled. Look out for dead wood, insecure branches and any signs of decay both in the tree to be felled, and in adjacent crowns. Be constantly aware of likely danger, especially when the tree begins to fall.

After you have assessed the tree but still remain uncertain about its condition (or the condition of adjacent trees that could be affected) be prepared to leave the tree unfelled or change your felling method.


Woodland is often on the sort of ground that's unsuitable for agriculture in the UK, so it relies on skilled operators, rather than machinery.

Returning to Kent for the weekend made me realise that working in woods is a form of 'adventure leisure' in those areas without mountains. It's under tighter control these days, and only those with current certification get the fun. It does mean that there are going to be a lot of dead Ash in our woods.

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #39 on: 17 October, 2017, 09:57:14 am »
Reading these stories makes me think that using explosives would be a far safer way to fell trees. Whoever thought that standing next to something that can kill you, using a whirring chain covered with sharpened bits of metal (that can kill you) was a good idea?

Blow the bloody thing up from 100m away, I say.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #40 on: 17 October, 2017, 10:06:19 am »
Reading these stories makes me think that using explosives would be a far safer way to fell trees. Whoever thought that standing next to something that can kill you, using a whirring chain covered with sharpened bits of metal (that can kill you) was a good idea?

Blow the bloody thing up from 100m away, I say.

In some circumstances, explosives can give the required result.

Quote
Early attempts at replicating what was observed in nature had varying results. Roy Finch and Ted Green (Finch 1996) undertook a number of trials at Windsor Great Park in the early nineties. Roy even resorted to using explosives to see what type of fragmented ends would result. The use of explosives is not now advocated in the UK for both the obvious reason of safety but also because it resulted in uncontrollable outcomes. It is interesting however to note that at a recent Ancient Tree Forum visit to Sweden, the Swedish army had been recruited at one of the nature reserves to attempt to promote and recreate the type of habitat that would favour a European target endangered invertebrate species (Osmoderma eremeta). This was carried out mainly on old birch and produced interesting shattered ends.

http://treeworks.co.uk/downloads/8%20-%20Coronet%20cuts%20&%20retrenchment%20pruning%2017%20April%202003.pdf

ian

Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #41 on: 17 October, 2017, 10:07:02 am »
You want to use explosives in the bear-rich environment? I wouldn't, not given that most bears are constitutionally armed.

mattc

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #42 on: 17 October, 2017, 10:28:29 am »

Quote
... a recent Ancient Tree Forum visit...


Sounds like an invasion by Ents.
Has never ridden RAAM
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T42

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #43 on: 17 October, 2017, 11:13:09 am »
It was indeed 30 years ago today that we woke up to such devastation. Frightening stuff.

I was in Germany at the time. Colleague from Sevenoaks sent his dad a postcard addressed to Oneoak, Kent and it got through. Pater was miffed.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #44 on: 17 October, 2017, 11:21:50 am »
Diamond wire cutting of concrete is pretty easy and quick. I can't imagine that it would be too difficult to wire cut timber remotely with man-portable equipment. Bit expensive though...
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Mr Larrington

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #45 on: 17 October, 2017, 04:40:42 pm »
Plus you need to watch out for Widowmakers.

Surely nobody's still flying the F104-G?
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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #46 on: 17 October, 2017, 04:50:17 pm »
According to Mr Wales's Wiki, there are six flyable ones in Leftpondia -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surviving_Lockheed_F-104_Starfighters#United_States
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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #47 on: 17 October, 2017, 04:58:34 pm »
A lot of the bread and butter tree-felling is now done by harvesters or tree-shears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwOrKizyuxA

That's left the really difficult work in the hands of a shrinking group of skilled chainsaw operators. There are still plenty of tree-surgeons about, but they don't get much practice in windblow. There's not a big pool of labour to clear up after storms, so safety gets a bit sketchy.

TheLurker

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #48 on: 17 October, 2017, 07:03:14 pm »
Plus you need to watch out for Widowmakers.
Is that elm trees ?
I believe the nickname has also been applied to both Eucalyptus & Horse Chestnut.  Both have a nasty habit of dropping large branches on people without warning. 

True story.  MrsLurker walked to local garden centre.  On the way back, about 20 minutes later, sodding great conker tree branch over a foot in diameter at it's "root" lying across the footpath and into the road.  On a fine summer's day with barely a breath of wind.
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ElyDave

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Re: The Great Storm - 30 years ago.
« Reply #49 on: 17 October, 2017, 07:31:00 pm »
Having recently read Anthony Beevor's Ardennes, Hitler's Last Gamble, one of the things mentioned several times is that the amount of shelling that took place, including proximity fused shells, resulting in huge amounts of shrapnel embedded in trees rendered forestry in large parts of the Ardennes practically impossible and the timber worthless.

Were the swedes intending to harvest any trees where they let the military loose?
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens