Are e-bikes ruining mountain biking?

[Cudzoziemiec]

It's to do with the terrain, and also Strava, it seems.
https://theconversation.com/are-e-bikes-ruining-mountain-biking-166121

On a barely even tangentially related note, I saw the labelling on one of those "reusable but disposable" coffee cups, "ecoffee". Which is presumably meant to be read as a portmanteau of eco and coffee, but did make me think "electric coffee".

[Kim]

Sounds like all the usual arguments that non-cyclists use against mountain bikers.

Maybe the erosion and manners are worse, or maybe they've just found an exciting new visible outgroup...

[nobby]

"The Conversation - Academic rigour, journalistic flair"

I think 'journalistic flair' triumphs over 'academic rigour' in this Conversation.
"Sales of electric bikes have increased dramatically recently. In 2020, 4.6 million e-bikes were sold in the EU and UK, a 52% rise year on year. In the UK, nearly one in three adult bikes sold are now electric."
A tell you nothing useful sentence worthy of the Mail.

[Lightning Phil]

Their research is nothing in the sort, click on the link.

“travelling at speeds that are unsafe for other users of the countryside”

Ironic given the hill walkers complaining almost certainly drove to the start of their walk at speeds that are unsafe for other road users.

Erosion from hill walking in the Lakes is well known and been a problem for decades.

Perhaps the greater question is the pressure and environmental impact from the vast hordes who decide to drive to and around the Lakes.

[FifeingEejit]

Considering MTBs have moved to fatter tyres with lower air pressures and this is believed to be less erosive on the ground than skinny mtb tyres and even feet, and that an eMTB can be used to go up steeper stuff that would previously have required said feet.

You could argue eMTBs will cause less erosion.

Shite braking techniques however...

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

[Cudzoziemiec]

"The Conversation - Academic rigour, journalistic flair"

I think 'journalistic flair' triumphs over 'academic rigour' in this Conversation.

Unfortunately that seems to be increasingly the case on The Conversation over the last couple of years.

[nuttycyclist]

Considering MTBs have moved to fatter tyres with lower air pressures and this is believed to be less erosive on the ground than skinny mtb tyres and even feet, and that an eMTB can be used to go up steeper stuff that would previously have required said feet.

You could argue eMTBs will cause less erosion.

Shite braking techniques however...

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

I've always argued that MTB causes less erosion than walking.  Back where I used to live the back roads were "horse riding routes" and in the winter they were neigh on impassable by foot or bike - I was frequently up to my hubs in churned up mud.

I've ridden through many country parks and other outside places where cycling is "discouraged" and left no trails or damage at all.  Unfortunately my riding style isn't the same as others who can tear up the ground through excessive braking, and so damage is obvious to fuel further hatred towards the cycling community from the anti-cycling mentality out there.

Recently I've been on official cycle routes through the countryside, where the horse riders can go everywhere and complain if a cyclist dares leave the authorised path.  Their argument is the damage bikes cause, but I just look at the ground and question which bikes are equipped with horse shoes as that's the only evidence of damage and erosion.  It has always amused me when I'm chugging up a steep track and get overtaken by a couple of OAPs riding their e-bikes back to their campervan.

Much as I dislike e-bikes and have to constantly explain that my dynohub isn't a motor, I think it's a good thing that it's enabling non-cyclists to get out into the countryside and explore.

[bobb]

Agree with all above.

OT, but the only thing that annoys me about ebikes is just how hard they're being pushed. Every MTB YouTuber is always bigging them up which is hardly surprising seeing as they're being paid to ride and promote the bloody things.

This week has been the MTB world champs. Now there's even an E-XC race! If people want to race eebs, that's fine by me, but a world championship race? Will we be seeing an e-road race? Maybe an e-TT? Perhaps they could introduce it to athletics. We could have the e-10,000m where every other lap they get on an e-scooter....

I think it's a good thing that it's enabling non-cyclists to get out into the countryside and explore.

The thing is though, most e-MTBs are being used by young people who are just too fucking lazy to pedal up hills...

[Socks]

Apparently there's going to be an ebike championship in Yorkshire in 2022, sponsored by Wrigley's chewing gum.

(click to show/hide)

ee by gum

[FifeingEejit]

Agree with all above.

OT, but the only thing that annoys me about ebikes is just how hard they're being pushed. Every MTB YouTuber is always bigging them up which is hardly surprising seeing as they're being paid to ride and promote the bloody things.

This week has been the MTB world champs. Now there's even an E-XC race! If people want to race eebs, that's fine by me, but a world championship race? Will we be seeing an e-road race? Maybe an e-TT? Perhaps they could introduce it to athletics. We could have the e-10,000m where every other lap they get on an e-scooter....

I think it's a good thing that it's enabling non-cyclists to get out into the countryside and explore.

The thing is though, most e-MTBs are being used by young people who are just too fucking lazy to pedal up hills...

What next?
A Motorcycle Grand Prix World Championship?
Motorcycle Trials being a sport?

Going up hill on them isn't effortless either, it's a "different" sport from what is seen as traditional MTB, but I doubt you could put Dougie Lampkin on a Super Bike and expect him to win the IoM TT, or for that matter put John McGuiness on a Trials Bike and expect him to be class topping at a 6-Days trial either.

[nuttycyclist]

...
Going up hill on them isn't effortless either, it's a "different" sport from what is seen as traditional MTB, ...

Maybe not a sport, but as per above it amazes me every time I get overtaken by OAPs on a steep gravel uphill when they are hardly pedalling.

Last week I was heading home from the shops, not hanging around but with panniers and rucksack full of shopping.  I estimate I was heading uphill at about 15mph and three ebikes overtook me at my estimate of nearly 30mph based on local knowledge of the road and the speed the cars were doing.

I'm not sure I agree with the "effortless" word in your statement, but I haven't ridden a ebike so I won't dispute your usage of it.

[bobb]

I doubt you could put Dougie Lampkin on a Super Bike and expect him to win the IoM TT, or for that matter put John McGuiness on a Trials Bike and expect him to be class topping at a 6-Days trial either.

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not talking about different cycling disciplines, just like your example, an XC rider is never going to win a DH race and a DH rider is never going to win an XC race. But we're talking an XC race and an e-XC race. If all the XC riders did a race on acoustic bikes, then did the same on e-bikes, I can't see there being much difference in the result.

Dunno why you were talking about motorcycles anyway, this is about e-assisted racing. Which to me seems pointless. A bit like say, e-assisted weightlifing or e-assisted marathon running....

[Peter]

Bobb, as a fellow player, can I ask if you invented "acoustic bike"?  It's brilliant!

[quixoticgeek]

Bobb, as a fellow player, can I ask if you invented "acoustic bike"?  It's brilliant!

I've seen it used on twitter before...

J

[quixoticgeek]

First use I can find is 2014.

https://twitter.com/thebeatcroft/status/421263159673245696

J

[bobb]

Bobb, as a fellow player, can I ask if you invented "acoustic bike"?  It's brilliant!

As mentioned, it's quite a common term!

[Peter]

OK - but thanks for bringing it to me!

[FifeingEejit]

I doubt you could put Dougie Lampkin on a Super Bike and expect him to win the IoM TT, or for that matter put John McGuiness on a Trials Bike and expect him to be class topping at a 6-Days trial either.

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not talking about different cycling disciplines, just like your example, an XC rider is never going to win a DH race and a DH rider is never going to win an XC race. But we're talking an XC race and an e-XC race. If all the XC riders did a race on acoustic bikes, then did the same on e-bikes, I can't see there being much difference in the result.

Dunno why you were talking about motorcycles anyway, this is about e-assisted racing. Which to me seems pointless. A bit like say, e-assisted weightlifing or e-assisted marathon running....

It was a comparable example of different disciplines in outwardly the same sport that came to mind, also includes motor assisted movement...

e-XC and XC are different disciplines, they don't race against each other.

Manipulating the motor assistance and handling the increased weight is part of e-MTB racing that isn't part of normal-MTB racing.
The motor assistance also makes fatter tyres more suitable for XC, where you may have gone for a 2.4 instead of a 2,2 for a technical track, you might be looking at being able to use 3" tyres which further helps on roots and rocks as does the extra speed, this may mean that a rider who is better on less technical tracks does better over technical features than they normally would.
It would be interesting to see current XC racers do one race normally then another race on the same track with e-XC bikes.

[nobby]

I estimate I was heading uphill at about 15mph and three ebikes overtook me at my estimate of nearly 30mph based on local knowledge of the road and the speed the cars were doing.

Any e bike going uphill at over 15mph surely has an illegal, over 250 watt, motor?

[bobb]

I doubt you could put Dougie Lampkin on a Super Bike and expect him to win the IoM TT, or for that matter put John McGuiness on a Trials Bike and expect him to be class topping at a 6-Days trial either.

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not talking about different cycling disciplines, just like your example, an XC rider is never going to win a DH race and a DH rider is never going to win an XC race. But we're talking an XC race and an e-XC race. If all the XC riders did a race on acoustic bikes, then did the same on e-bikes, I can't see there being much difference in the result.

Dunno why you were talking about motorcycles anyway, this is about e-assisted racing. Which to me seems pointless. A bit like say, e-assisted weightlifing or e-assisted marathon running....

It was a comparable example of different disciplines in outwardly the same sport that came to mind, also includes motor assisted movement...

e-XC and XC are different disciplines, they don't race against each other.

Manipulating the motor assistance and handling the increased weight is part of e-MTB racing that isn't part of normal-MTB racing.
The motor assistance also makes fatter tyres more suitable for XC, where you may have gone for a 2.4 instead of a 2,2 for a technical track, you might be looking at being able to use 3" tyres which further helps on roots and rocks as does the extra speed, this may mean that a rider who is better on less technical tracks does better over technical features than they normally would.
It would be interesting to see current XC racers do one race normally then another race on the same track with e-XC bikes.

OK, fair enough. Good points.

But do we really need a world championship e-XC race? As far as I can tell it's just an exhibition race for the purposes of selling more bikes. I'm not sure any of the top XC riders took part?

[FifeingEejit]

Isn't all sport involving sponsored technical machinery just a marketing exercise?

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

[nuttycyclist]

I estimate I was heading uphill at about 15mph and three ebikes overtook me at my estimate of nearly 30mph based on local knowledge of the road and the speed the cars were doing.

Any e bike going uphill at over 15mph surely has an illegal, over 250 watt, motor?

That's what I thought too, but there were three of them.  Two that overtook me, and one I saw earlier on my way out.  All same design.

[Jakob]

Considering MTBs have moved to fatter tyres with lower air pressures and this is believed to be less erosive on the ground than skinny mtb tyres and even feet.

This I refuse to believe. I use several hiking trails where bikes aren't allowed and it's clear to see the damage from the few who does ride it anyway. (Despite these trails aren't really good for MTB's and world class MTB trails are all over the place nearby)

[FifeingEejit]

Considering MTBs have moved to fatter tyres with lower air pressures and this is believed to be less erosive on the ground than skinny mtb tyres and even feet.

This I refuse to believe. I use several hiking trails where bikes aren't allowed and it's clear to see the damage from the few who does ride it anyway. (Despite these trails aren't really good for MTB's and world class MTB trails are all over the place nearby)

Quick reference search gives this.
 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327275644_The_influence_of_tire_size_on_bicycle_impacts_to_soil_and_vegetation

I'd say mtb tyres erode more on descent and hiking on climbs, but that's based on seeing people slide down hill locked up and climbed up other people's boot steps cut into hillsides rsther than any study.

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

[cycleman]

I estimate I was heading uphill at about 15mph and three ebikes overtook me at my estimate of nearly 30mph based on local knowledge of the road and the speed the cars were doing.

Any e bike going uphill at over 15mph surely has an illegal, over 250 watt, motor?

Not a issue off road