Author Topic: Round The Year Randonneurs Log  (Read 425596 times)

Weirdy Biker

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #275 on: 01 February, 2010, 01:50:32 pm »
*Literal meaning warning*.  Essentially +1 to the coments below though.

Should we not promote riding round the year?

No, Audax UK shouldn't.  But it should facilitate it.

Whether individuals or clubs want to reward the dedication of riding around the year is a different matter.  That differs from promoting it though.

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Is AUK wrong to put on events during the winter months?

AUK doesn't put them on, individual organisers do.  Whether organisers should or not is a matter for them.  I'd support the right of (suitably experienced) organisers to put on events regardless of the time of year.

One thing I had on hand at my November 50/100s was a print out of the weather forecast that people could look at if they wanted.  I also, based on experience, gave a little speech at the start warning the riders to expect ice/frost in the lanes that will tend to clear by lunchtime.  All part of helping riders make an informed choice of whether to ride or not.

My one regret about that event was not providing either a partial refund or the possibility of doing the ride as a permanent (see below).  My rationale at the time was that 50/100km events didn't matter in the scheme of things and the distribution of "profit" of £45 between 40 riders wasn't worthwhile, but now feel that was a poor decision on my part.

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Should we have a close season, like the DATC (or CTC Tourist Competition?) from November-February?

Winter rides are not inherently dangerous.  It is prevailing weather conditions that increase risk.  So, no, a close season is not something I'd vote for.

Personally I think the flexibility shown on the Poor Student and Winter Solstice demonstrates a sensible, pragmatic way of dealing with this.  Events are not cancelled but riders are given the flexibility to defer riding the event when weather conditions improve.

A possible criteria for Winter events might be that the organiser must be willing to offer this flexibility, subject to authorisation from the AUK events secretary, and events must be organised (or at least be encourage to be organised) with this possibility in mind.  For example, had bad weather more adversely affected the Hills and Mills 100km event, it would not have been possible to ride it as a perm (due to use of checkpoints on the event) without the use of infos (which could have been submitted by the organiser).  But even with such an initiative, I suspect caution would be needed in order to avoid the responsibility of omitting to do something (i.e. omitting to offer an alternative date).

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What about Perms?

Given these offer the most flexibility, I see even less justification for these being kaboshed over the winter months.  That said, one of the bits of beauraucracy that slightly jars with me is the "requirement" to inform the organiser when you intend to ride when this is very much weather dependent and makes no difference to the organiser (certainly not to me on my perms).  A minor irritant though, as no doubt the "safety" brigade have their motivations.

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #276 on: 01 February, 2010, 01:55:54 pm »
Save yourself the anguish Mike and sack the whole RRTY thing.

Weirdy Biker

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #277 on: 01 February, 2010, 02:07:17 pm »
Save yourself the anguish Mike and sack the whole RRTY thing.

I agree with the sentiment if not the statement.

The award is Mike's invention.  He can do with it what he wants.  Whilst he organises it, he gets my thanks (and based on comments bemoaning the Jan/Feb extension, my sympathy).

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #278 on: 01 February, 2010, 02:17:38 pm »
I just had a dreadful schlep down to Birmingham.

To start with I had a sudden, vicious dose of the squits, which meant an impromptu crap in some scrub in Rochdale. And again in Manchester. The other four times, I found a loo, so things did improve. Then it snowed, really heavily, all the way to Northwich, leaving me covered in oily sludge. I punctured at Midway, and again in Birmingham. Oh and the snow washed my chain clean, leaving me squeaking along for 20km until I could get some 3-1.

At least I didn't break anything, I suppose.

Perhaps we could do with a new form of audax ride.  TRTY - toilets round the year - with controls located at public/cafe lavatories and loo paper used for the Brevet Card receipt  :o.

Perhaps more seriously, your ride sounds horrendous and I hope you are feeling better. 
Organiser of Droitwich Cycling Club audaxes.  https://www.droitwichcyclingclub.co.uk/audax/

border-rider

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #279 on: 01 February, 2010, 02:22:47 pm »
Before RRTY came along, there were very few 200s between the end of October and March.  And much less interest in perms.

RRTY has changed the calendar and the way we ride.  In a good way.  In the end it's up to the individual if they wish to ride, and up to Mike whether he wishes to carry on with the scheme.  I'm just very appreciative of what it has achieved.

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #280 on: 01 February, 2010, 10:06:25 pm »
Before RRTY came along, there were very few 200s between the end of October and March.  And much less interest in perms.

RRTY has changed the calendar and the way we ride.  In a good way.  In the end it's up to the individual if they wish to ride, and up to Mike whether he wishes to carry on with the scheme.  I'm just very appreciative of what it has achieved.

My sentiments exactly MV. And as Mike himself stated, "The RRTY isn't supposed to be easy!  The lucky ones are those who have a Perm card on the shelf and the flexibility to just ride any day that the weather breaks."

If Mike doesn't wish to carry on with the scheme, I'm sure someone else will pick-up the baton - rather like Mike himself did when the RTTY originator decided to take a back seat. It's difficult to invent something comletely new, but it's impossible to un-invent it.
where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

LEE

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #281 on: 02 February, 2010, 10:44:29 pm »
I'm with ChrisS on this - I think you're too hard on yourself, Mike.  We are all adults**, able to make up our own mind whether to ride.  In poor conditions many will decide not to ride (indeed, with last month's Poor Student all decided not to ride).

+1

It's my decision to ride or not.
It's my decision how important RRTY is to me.
It's my fault if I decide to ride in poor conditions and hurt myself.

I'm grateful to Mike for setting up RRTY and giving me a new challenge but I won't blame him if I fall off during a ride.

I DNS the Poor Student because of the weather and, if the weather was as bad all February then I would forsake my RRTY, it's not that important to me.  Riding a Feb ride in March may get me RRTY but I'd know that I didn't do it really.

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #282 on: 03 February, 2010, 12:28:35 am »
I agree with all the above - RRTY is something worth aiming for - it encourages me to get out and ride a 200 when i may not otherwise have done so. I've never claimed a RRTY award - which seems a bit daft - but its got me out of bed on some days when otherwise i wouldnt have. And i can honestly say i've never regretted it.

In terms of riding The Solstice  last weekend - on saturday the conditions were good - exceptional in fact and we went for it. I was watching the weather and there was no major risk from it.

The other Merc bunch, including the 'Real' Mercury Jim, rode in awful conditions on sun - by all accounts anyway. Me and Harry wouldnt have ridden in that. He'd have sat in the car for 12 hours with a bottle of coke and a bag of ready salted  ;D

With modern kit riding year round is possible. Only the individual can make their decision on the day. And if you cant make a sensible call due to lack of experience or whatever - then the answer has to be no

jim

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #283 on: 03 February, 2010, 08:11:46 am »
  Riding a Feb ride in March may get me RRTY but I'd know that I didn't do it really.
Only Jan rides may be carried over to Feb, not Feb to March.

3peaker

  • RRTY Mad 42 up
Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #284 on: 04 February, 2010, 03:57:13 pm »
Quote MW: Fortunately, I've only heard of one casualty of the January weather (John Radford) who slipped in the first 2km of his DIY 200.

Since my grounding last Wed on mud/pothole, life is restoring to a dead R leg, though, still, I cannot climb stairs unaided (60-70% wt support?).  Now, I took the Trike up Leckhampton Hill 1:6ish today, twiddling my lowest gear, so am thinking of a Trikie 200 on Sunday, to keep the RRTY(Feb) wheels rolling.  The TrikeA(West) is having a lunch by Chew Valley Lake and that is only a 4km diversion from my Severn & Estuary 200. Ambitious?

SteveP
SteveP

Promoting : Cheltenham Flyer 200, Cider with Rosie 150, Character Coln 100.

mikewigley

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #285 on: 04 February, 2010, 07:35:28 pm »
  Riding a Feb ride in March may get me RRTY but I'd know that I didn't do it really.
Only Jan rides may be carried over to Feb, not Feb to March.

And thinking about it, you've only got 58 days in January(not 59), which would leave you only 1 day for your February ride

dasmoth

  • Techno-optimist
Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #286 on: 04 February, 2010, 07:40:36 pm »
If you started a 200km perm just after midnight, didn't hang around too much, then set out for a second lap immediately, wouldn't that give you two qualifying rides on the same day?
Half term's when the traffic becomes mysteriously less bad for a week.

mikewigley

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #287 on: 04 February, 2010, 08:20:35 pm »
If you started a 200km perm just after midnight, didn't hang around too much, then set out for a second lap immediately, wouldn't that give you two qualifying rides on the same day?

That would certainly count and it would be a very smart trick to pull off

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #288 on: 04 February, 2010, 08:29:05 pm »
If you started a 200km perm just after midnight, didn't hang around too much, then set out for a second lap immediately, wouldn't that give you two qualifying rides on the same day?

I believe you are correct, from a logical view point it's similar using a sub 200km event and an ECE to make-up the distance.

Something else that's rather interesting, and it was pointed-out to me a couple of years ago, that there's nothing in the AUK rules to prevent cyclists doing rides events concurrently. I've never thoroughly examined the rule book - so I'm quite happy to stand corrected if the relevant clauses to the contrary can be produced.

So if you had a 204km perm, you could start the first at 0km and finish at 200km, the second at 1km finish at 201, the third at 2km finish at 202km, the fourth at 3km to 203km, and the fifth from 4km and finishing at 204km.

I'd be the first to agree that it's hardly ethical - but they seem to have been given a miss recently. I will now put on my hard hat and dive into the nearest bunker until the fall-out has dispersed.
where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

LEE

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #289 on: 05 February, 2010, 09:24:15 am »
 Riding a Feb ride in March may get me RRTY but I'd know that I didn't do it really.
Only Jan rides may be carried over to Feb, not Feb to March.

OK, riding a Jan ride in Feb may get me RRTY but I'd know that I didn't do it really.

It's winter that makes RRTY difficult.  If difficult turns to impossible then I think that's tough luck. Start again.  

Parts of the country are susceptible to snow and ice every year.  Living in the South of England makes RRTY easier than living in, say, Fort William in Scotland.

I didn't get a second chance when my bike snapped on my September 200 though, and I didn't expect one.  October 200 became RRTY ride#1

Like I say, riding 200km isn't what makes RRTY difficult.  Finding suitable weather, having reliable equipment and being able to find time in your life (family life) is what makes it difficult.  Luck (and bad luck) play a big part.

Having said all that, I'm not bothered how others view the challenge.  It's a personal challenge for me to get the 12 consecutive months and I was lucky to get a break in the weather for a solo perm 200 in January.  I have a shot at a Feb perm this weekend by the look of things.




mikewigley

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #290 on: 05 February, 2010, 09:30:26 am »
you could start the first at 0km and finish at 200km, the second at 1km finish at 201, the third at 2km ....


You would be out of time, and out of controls, before too long.

It's not unknown for a ride Organiser to have multiple Calendar events registered on the same date, as he/she is allowed (and indeed encouraged) to ride the events the week before to check out the route sheet (I think there's at least me and Marmite Geoff who've done this).  Of course it's the date you actually ride the event, not the published date of the event in the Calendar, that counts for an RRTY

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #291 on: 05 February, 2010, 11:20:14 am »
I haven't studied the rules, so stand ready to be corrected, but I thought that the rules specifically precluded multiple events on the same date.  Seems a sensible sort of rule, really, though perhaps unnecessary.

I recall a few years ago I did the route-check for the Kennet Valley 200 a week before the event, and (after helping at the start) I rode the 100 event on the day, helping at the finish of the 200 afterwards.  I had formally entered both.  It was "suggested" to me that it was not within the rules to claim both, as both were listed as the same date.  The 100 didn't count for anything anyway so I was happy to request this be withdrawn from the results list.  (It did however leave Mrs D with a small problem, as the 100 was done on a tandem, and both riders should be entered, which I suppose we were.)

I realise the RRTY rules are slightly different, but since the dispensation to ride an event before the actual date is limited to helpers, it would seem unlikely that anyone doing this will seek to claim a 200 or more on the official date, as they will be helping.

Phixie

  • No gears and all the ideas
Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #292 on: 05 February, 2010, 12:10:12 pm »
In the past helpers have ridden events in just the way Phil describes and I, personally, do not have a problem with that.  If you get an extra point or so as a "reward" for assisting in the organisation, that's fine.  But with Blacksheep's scenario you would need any number of extra control points, fairly close together, which might not actually be available.  A more realistic scenario would be to start the second series of control brevidence after 50km.  If you completed the original 200km, you could then continue for a further 50km to complete the second set, say on something like the Middle Road.  The upshot of this would be a claim for four points having ridden 250km which is completely against the spirit of Audax.  It would very likely be picked up by either the Perm organiser or the Perms Events Secretary who would then reject the claim.

I cannot see any regulation categorically forbidding this double counting and am loath to introduce one until such time as it becomes an actual rather than hypothetical problem, not wishing to emulate the alleged binary nature of the Audax Australia rule book where stuff is either forbidden or mandatory.  No doubt it is a very large book.
At the end of the day, when all's said and done, there's usually a lot more said than done.

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #293 on: 05 February, 2010, 01:10:45 pm »

You would be out of time, and out of controls, before too long.

It's not unknown for a ride Organiser to have multiple Calendar events registered on the same date, as he/she is allowed (and indeed encouraged) to ride the events the week before to check out the route sheet (I think there's at least me and Marmite Geoff who've done this).  Of course it's the date you actually ride the event, not the published date of the event in the Calendar, that counts for an RRTY

Sorry Mike, I probably didn't explain it too well. Suppose there was a "204 km circuit". Start ride 1 at 0km, when you get to 1km - start ride 2 (you're already on ride 1), at 3km start ride (you're now on ride 1,2 & 3) etc........
At 200km Finish ride 1, but youre still on 2,3,4 & 5. At 201 km finish ride 2 (still on ride 3,4 & 5). At 202km finish ride 3 (still on ride 4 & 5). at 203 km finish ride 4 (still on ride 5) . Then at 204 km finish ride 5.

I run a couple of 600s on the same day - so I understand where you're at there. Just riding one is enough for me. On the day of the events,  I take the harder option.
where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #294 on: 05 February, 2010, 01:20:27 pm »
But you'd need a start/end control at 0km, another at 1km, another at 2km and so on.... it's finding this series of controls I think people were suggesting would be rather challenging. plus the time spent at each would really start to add up.

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #295 on: 05 February, 2010, 01:29:24 pm »
The "controls by tracklog" would make this sort of thing much much easier though, great for points chasers. Why divide it up in 1km bits though, why not have the starts 500m apart ? 205km then could be 10 rides, 20 points.

I think Phixie is referring to the unwritten rule that says one can't ride more than one event at once.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #296 on: 05 February, 2010, 01:36:46 pm »
Surely the answer for purists who are caught up in the weather is to do two in Feb?
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #297 on: 05 February, 2010, 01:41:47 pm »
But you'd need a start/end control at 0km, another at 1km, another at 2km and so on.... it's finding this series of controls I think people were suggesting would be rather challenging. plus the time spent at each would really start to add up.

Pretty trivial in London. I could get receipts at shops/cashpoints in:-

Putney, Parsons Green, Vauxhall, Southbank, Liverpool St

then continue on my normal 200 up to Cambridge (may have to extend the ride by 10km or so to compensate for the later start controls) and back ending in Putney. It'd be a bit of a pain having to get 5 receipts at each of the intermediate stops too, along with the final stop in Putney.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #298 on: 05 February, 2010, 01:42:56 pm »
I think Phixie is referring to the unwritten rule that says one can't ride more than one event at once.

Yes, the same one that's designed to stop you starting a DIY 1000, giving up at 650km and submitting the proof-of-passage collected and trying to claim for a 600.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Round The Year Randonneurs Log
« Reply #299 on: 05 February, 2010, 03:14:01 pm »
I think it's actually a written rule isn't it?(with which I agree, I hasten to add). Else I would have got my 600k last year - having ridden just short of 1000k in time of LEL. But no SR for me last year  :'( except in my head  ;)
Behold the turtle - he only makes progress if he sticks his neck out.