Yet Another Cycling Forum

Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: quixoticgeek on 25 December, 2021, 10:50:28 am

Title: JWSTelescope
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 December, 2021, 10:50:28 am
Happy Telescope Launch Day everyone!

Who's gonna watch the launch?

J
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Polar Bear on 25 December, 2021, 11:00:01 am
Already on it.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Basil on 25 December, 2021, 11:06:36 am
Me too.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: T42 on 25 December, 2021, 11:18:07 am
Me too.  Just now they're warbling about stuff anyone who's interested will already know.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Basil on 25 December, 2021, 11:24:24 am
Bah! My time calculation is one hour out.  At least I haven't missed anything.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 December, 2021, 11:27:04 am


Which streams are people watching?

I'm on:

https://youtu.be/5rARTOhbLDg

J

Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Beardy on 25 December, 2021, 11:54:29 am
I’ll be having a look in shortly. Son-in-law bought a telescope for Ms Beardy the elder which made her very happy. I’m a little jealous, especially as she lives on the edge of Dartmoor which is a protected night sky. 
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Polar Bear on 25 December, 2021, 12:11:25 pm
Just nine minutes to launch now.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 December, 2021, 12:12:25 pm


Have switched to this stream now:

https://youtu.be/7nT7JGZMbtM
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Polar Bear on 25 December, 2021, 12:16:16 pm


Which streams are people watching?

I'm on:

https://youtu.be/5rARTOhbLDg

J

 This one.  (https://youtu.be/nA9UZF-SZoQ)
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Basil on 25 December, 2021, 12:21:05 pm
Woo hoo  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 December, 2021, 12:21:56 pm

Lift off!

J
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Kim on 25 December, 2021, 12:40:52 pm
ob-xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2559/
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 December, 2021, 01:11:32 pm

Switched off the stream when some nasa administrator started some sort of christian sermon...

This is space science, why are they bringing Christianity into it?

Anyway, was a good launch!

I think Nancy-Grace-Roman telescope is the next up, which will be in no more than 6 years.

J
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: T42 on 25 December, 2021, 02:37:31 pm
The roast duck was going critical and I was deep-frying prawns when the count hit zero, so I missed it.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 25 December, 2021, 03:28:21 pm
Jehovah's Witness Space Telescope?  :o
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Beardy on 25 December, 2021, 05:21:52 pm
The next dodgy moment is when they start to unfold it. I suspect there we’ll be a fair few fingers crossed when they press that button.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: hatler on 25 December, 2021, 06:16:10 pm
I think I've inspired both my children and our three nephews by the wonders of the universe and the enormity and significance of JWST with the result that we all sat and watched it lift off.

Little Miss hatler, who up to now hasn't been too enamoured of things scientific is blown away by the whole enterprise and is sending links to the lift off to her mates.

There's hope for the future !!
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: hatler on 25 December, 2021, 06:17:37 pm
Did I read that there are 237 single points of failure in getting this thing up and running ?
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: andyoxon on 25 December, 2021, 08:47:43 pm
This is good: Deployment sequence  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzGLKQ7_KZQ&t=107s

Does show that there is a lot that still needs to go well...

JWST orbit lagrange points info is interesting...  https://webb.nasa.gov/content/about/orbit.html
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 December, 2021, 09:16:18 pm
Did I read that there are 237 single points of failure in getting this thing up and running ?

307 single points if failure, out of a total of 344 moving parts.

J
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Mr Larrington on 26 December, 2021, 12:00:22 am
If astronomer and SCIENCE writer Tom Kerss gets a look at his BBC interview on the subj. from the viewers' perspective he's gonna be fummin' when he sees the caption describing him as an astrologer.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: andyoxon on 26 December, 2021, 11:17:43 am
Quote
Between days three and seven, Webb will deploy the parts of its sunshield, raise the tower assembly and deploy the momentum flap. Day 10 might be the most nail-biting, as Webb hoists its secondary mirror into position. Heidi Hammel, a scientist on the mission, said:
For me, personally, that’s the scariest part of the whole deployment sequence, the secondary mirror … If we don’t have a secondary mirror, we don’t get any light from space into our cameras and spectrographs. There’s nothing.
  https://earthsky.org/space/james-webb-space-telescope-30-days-of-terror/
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: T42 on 26 December, 2021, 03:24:11 pm
The secondary mirror deployment mechanism looks as if it uses quite robust hinges & joints, so I wouldn't worry too much.  It's the sunshade that looks like the real nail-biter, given that an earlier test tore one.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: quixoticgeek on 26 December, 2021, 03:36:16 pm
The secondary mirror deployment mechanism looks as if it uses quite robust hinges & joints, so I wouldn't worry too much.  It's the sunshade that looks like the real nail-biter, given that an earlier test tore one.

Yep, that's the thing that's scaring me.

J
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Beardy on 26 December, 2021, 06:26:22 pm
And there’s a lot of it for something to go wrong. It’s not as if they had the luxury of designing in redundancy given the payload restrictions.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: jsabine on 27 December, 2021, 12:51:16 am
Scope for unpredictable failure conditions too with an Xmas day launch:
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/december_25th_launch.png)
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: T42 on 27 December, 2021, 09:21:13 am
JWST status page:

https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html

And this bit for fun:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_orbit
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: woollypigs on 28 December, 2021, 11:16:17 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHocebGUYAMHFFw?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Jurek on 28 December, 2021, 11:47:31 am
^ :thumbsup:
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: quixoticgeek on 28 December, 2021, 11:49:32 am


I have an ESA branded "remove before launch" tag I was given by one of the ground control crew from the ISS.

The space stuff all has before launch, not before flight...

J
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: quixoticgeek on 28 December, 2021, 11:55:57 am

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHsVnYPWQAITidP?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHsVjhNWYAE0OSc?format=jpg&name=large)

J
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: T42 on 29 December, 2021, 04:25:48 pm
Looks like sunshield deployment has been at least partially successful: the status page is showing large temperature differences between cold & hot sides.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: hatler on 29 December, 2021, 04:35:45 pm
And that's before the sunshield is fully deployed. They're still folded up and not due to be stretched out in place until Day 6, and then fully tensioned on Day 7.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Pingu on 29 December, 2021, 05:30:02 pm
JWST status page:

https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html


For sensible units: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html?units=metric
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: JonBuoy on 29 December, 2021, 05:38:16 pm
JWST status page:

https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html


For sensible units: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html?units=metric

...with improbable accuracies  ::-)
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: rogerzilla on 29 December, 2021, 05:39:12 pm
Beyond the moon, -150 deg C, and cruising at 2,000mph.  That's worse than the BCM audax.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Jurek on 29 December, 2021, 06:39:45 pm

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHsVnYPWQAITidP?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHsVjhNWYAE0OSc?format=jpg&name=large)

J
So cool.
I want.
It makes my 'Remove before flight' tags pale into insignificance.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Kim on 29 December, 2021, 08:24:09 pm
JWST status page:

https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html


For sensible units: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html?units=metric

...with improbable accuracies  ::-)

I bet the sensors are reading in Celsius/Kelvin and it's being converted from degrees SCIENCE to degrees Frankenstein and back.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: JonBuoy on 29 December, 2021, 08:34:34 pm
JWST status page:

https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html


For sensible units: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html?units=metric

...with improbable accuracies  ::-)

I bet the sensors are reading in Celsius/Kelvin and it's being converted from degrees SCIENCE to degrees Frankenstein and back.

Probably mV, mA or something like that.

It just bugged me that the temperatures were quoted in integer degF (but to two DP  ::-)) then converted to degC with the same 2DP.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Kim on 29 December, 2021, 08:45:54 pm
I squinted at the page source to see if it was doing the conversion in the browser, and now I wish I hadn't.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Jaded on 30 December, 2021, 12:16:10 pm
It is 389k miles away now, and some kind of little separation tower is deployed.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Pingu on 30 December, 2021, 07:21:58 pm
Sunshield covers released.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Zed43 on 30 December, 2021, 07:33:51 pm
JWST is now expected to have a 10+ year lifespan (https://blogs.nasa.gov/webb/2021/12/29/nasa-says-webbs-excess-fuel-likely-to-extend-its-lifetime-expectations/) due to the precision of the Arianespace Ariane 5 launch, which exceeded the requirements needed to put Webb on the right path.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: quixoticgeek on 30 December, 2021, 07:36:48 pm
JWST is now expected to have a 10+ year lifespan (https://blogs.nasa.gov/webb/2021/12/29/nasa-says-webbs-excess-fuel-likely-to-extend-its-lifetime-expectations/) due to the precision of the Arianespace Ariane 5 launch, which exceeded the requirements needed to put Webb on the right path.

This is excellent news. I'm still holding out hope that they come up with a robotic refueling mission.

J
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: hatler on 03 January, 2022, 03:52:32 pm
Does anyone know why the sunshield tensioning has been re-scheduled ?
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Pingu on 03 January, 2022, 04:54:36 pm
https://www.space.com/james-webb-space-telescope-sunshield-tension-delay
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: hatler on 03 January, 2022, 04:56:48 pm
Aha !   Thank you.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Pickled Onion on 03 January, 2022, 07:17:57 pm
I bet the sensors are reading in Celsius/Kelvin and it's being converted from degrees SCIENCE to degrees Frankenstein and back.

TIL: according to that website, the opposite of "Metric" is "English"  :facepalm:

TI actually L: I was wondering whether it was getting a bit crowded at the L2 "point" and how big a point it actually is, but it turns out that the various telescopes do not just orbit the sun but also orbit the L2 point. How they orbit something that's not actually there and so doesn't have any gravity is some kind of magic to do with gravitational wells or something.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 03 January, 2022, 08:23:22 pm
"English" seems a sensible term in that context. They don't want to use "Imperial" because they're American (and if they gave measurements of volume or weight, "Imperial" would be incorrect anyway), and they don't want to use "US customary measures" because they're aware that they have an international audience. But the three countries which don't officially use metric measures all speak English to some degree, and the vast majority of people choosing to see miles and fahrenheit will be English speakers.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Beardy on 03 January, 2022, 09:15:53 pm
Apropos to the above; I was recent;h looking at a British canal route finder on the interwebs and all the distances were giving in miles and furlongs. I had heard that the canals were a bastion of gammons, but the more research I do into thE possibility of obtaining g a live aboard the less I feel like doing so because my potential neighbours are going to be racing ranting gibbonous gammons.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 03 January, 2022, 09:23:45 pm
Might it be that canals were originally built in miles and furlongs and have never really been surveyed since? Just as railways still use miles and chains cos that's what the Victorian engineers used and the cost of resurveying (simply converting would introduce all sorts of errors) isn't worth it? Similar rules apply to cricket, horse racing and whatever...
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Pickled Onion on 03 January, 2022, 09:33:15 pm
Apropos to the above; I was recent;h looking at a British canal route finder on the interwebs and all the distances were giving in miles and furlongs. I had heard that the canals were a bastion of gammons, but the more research I do into thE possibility of obtaining g a live aboard the less I feel like doing so because my potential neighbours are going to be racing ranting gibbonous gammons.

The reason for that is because all the bridge and tunnel markings will be in chains, furlongs and miles. Just historical, no gammon conspiracy.

There are a fair number of bigoted old gits to be found on the waterways, but also a lot of hippy types and lots of other sorts too. Don't be put off by the minority that post loudly on canal forums. If you want to discuss practicalities start a new thread - I'm moving on to my new boat tomorrow after a gap of over 20 years.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Kim on 03 January, 2022, 09:43:41 pm
TI actually L: I was wondering whether it was getting a bit crowded at the L2 "point" and how big a point it actually is, but it turns out that the various telescopes do not just orbit the sun but also orbit the L2 point. How they orbit something that's not actually there and so doesn't have any gravity is some kind of magic to do with gravitational wells or something.

They're only not there in the sense that a hilltop isn't there:  Think of gravity like a contour map, with the Earth and Sun as holes of appropriate depth.  L1, L2 and L3 are 'saddles'[1], and L4 and L5 are ridges.  If you place an object near L1, L2 or L3 it will tend to drift away, but if you put it in orbit around the point, you can keep it there with the occasional burst of thrust.  That's why the JWST's lifetime is limited by its fuel supply; eventually it will run out and go wandering off into heliocentric orbit.

You'd expect the same to be true of L4 and L5, but it turns out the contour map is rotating (I dunno, it's in the hands of a car passenger who's a frequent perpetrator of terms like "other left" or something), and inertia pulls it back into place.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Lagrangian_points_equipotential.gif)


[1] In the horse rather than bicycle sense.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: hatler on 04 January, 2022, 05:55:11 pm
Huzzah !! Sunshield deployment complete.

I would think that the engineers were more concerned about this stage than any of the others.
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: rogerzilla on 04 January, 2022, 09:02:35 pm
I bet the sensors are reading in Celsius/Kelvin and it's being converted from degrees SCIENCE to degrees Frankenstein and back.

TIL: according to that website, the opposite of "Metric" is "English"  :facepalm:

TI actually L: I was wondering whether it was getting a bit crowded at the L2 "point" and how big a point it actually is, but it turns out that the various telescopes do not just orbit the sun but also orbit the L2 point. How they orbit something that's not actually there and so doesn't have any gravity is some kind of magic to do with gravitational wells or something.
Need to allow space for the alien monolith/stargate, too.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Kim on 05 January, 2022, 06:12:11 pm
Secondary mirror appears to have deployed successfully.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: ElyDave on 05 January, 2022, 06:22:36 pm
Huzzah!

Although not previously posting here i am quietly excited about this, if only from a difficulty pov
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: hatler on 05 January, 2022, 06:32:30 pm
Indeed. Great news. Though I have to question this blurb on the update website : -

Quote
The secondary mirror plays an important role in reflecting the light from the primary mirror to where the instruments sit, behind the primary mirror.

An important role ??  It's the only thing doing the reflecting.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: hatler on 05 January, 2022, 06:43:28 pm
And here's a thought. If the side bits of the main mirror fail to deploy then they have at least got two thirds of the main mirror in place, so, barring other possible disasters, they are guaranteed to have a working telescope.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Jaded on 05 January, 2022, 07:28:28 pm
Indeed. Great news. Though I have to question this blurb on the update website : -

Quote
The secondary mirror plays an important role in reflecting the light from the primary mirror to where the instruments sit, behind the primary mirror.

An important role ??  It's the only thing doing the reflecting.

Let's have a think about that.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: yorkie on 06 January, 2022, 03:29:21 pm
Obligatory xkcd (https://xkcd.com/2564)  :-D
Title: Re: JWST
Post by: Diver300 on 08 January, 2022, 07:34:15 pm
JWST status page:

https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html


For sensible units: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html?units=metric

...with improbable accuracies  ::-)

I bet the sensors are reading in Celsius/Kelvin and it's being converted from degrees SCIENCE to degrees Frankenstein and back.

Probably mV, mA or something like that.

It just bugged me that the temperatures were quoted in integer degF (but to two DP  ::-)) then converted to degC with the same 2DP.

They have now changed both Celsius and arcane to the nearest whole number. They also admit that the temperatures are only updated daily, as they don't expect fast changes.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Pingu on 08 January, 2022, 07:51:45 pm
Nasa engineers complete the unfolding of the James Webb space telescope (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/08/nasa-engineers-complete-the-unfolding-of-the-james-webb-space-telescope)
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: woollypigs on 08 January, 2022, 09:46:55 pm
\o/ for space origami
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Giraffe on 09 January, 2022, 08:42:50 am
Now, if it hadn't all unfurled:
'Oh what a tangled Webb we wove'
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 21 January, 2022, 07:45:57 pm
https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html?units=metric

Now 1.5 million km away and 95% of the way there.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 24 January, 2022, 07:32:38 pm
https://webb.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html?units=metric (https://webb.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html?units=metric)
100%

Next step - orbital insertion burn. In about 28 minutes.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Lightning Phil on 24 January, 2022, 07:53:15 pm
Now in orbit and -210C on cold side
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Pingu on 16 March, 2022, 10:44:03 pm
(https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/telescope_alignment_evaluation_image_labeled.png) (https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-s-webb-reaches-alignment-milestone-optics-working-successfully)
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 17 March, 2022, 09:01:06 am
Worth watching Dr Becky talk about this, just for her infectious joy.

https://youtu.be/mpE8ttCEd-w (https://youtu.be/mpE8ttCEd-w)

Something to cheer you up on a grey day.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Wowbagger on 17 March, 2022, 09:06:18 am
Worth watching Dr Becky talk about this, just for her infectious joy.

https://youtu.be/mpE8ttCEd-w (https://youtu.be/mpE8ttCEd-w)

Something to cheer you up on a grey day.

That video seemed to be about women's pay. Very important topic but not what I was expecting!
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 17 March, 2022, 09:16:35 am
Worth watching Dr Becky talk about this, just for her infectious joy.

https://youtu.be/mpE8ttCEd-w (https://youtu.be/mpE8ttCEd-w)

Something to cheer you up on a grey day.

That video seemed to be about women's pay. Very important topic but not what I was expecting!

WTF is happening with youtube? I copied the URL by right-clicking on the vid as usual

Try this one
https://youtu.be/1nOX66G5q9E (https://youtu.be/1nOX66G5q9E)


Oh my, Dr Becky responded to a question I had about the data.  <swoon>
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Pingu on 12 July, 2022, 11:08:28 am
First images from Nasa’s James Webb space telescope reveal ancient galaxies (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jul/11/nasa-james-webb-telescope-ancient-galaxy-images)

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/60f8262ffcf0949c3c439cbc1ff26e30ac5cdc36/0_0_4537_4630/master/4537.jpg?width=1020&quality=85&fit=max&s=c8abb0b5a371966a683846afec8bb5d7)
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Lightning Phil on 12 July, 2022, 11:16:58 am
The contrast with Hubble of same view tells you how much better it is.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: hatler on 12 July, 2022, 01:11:24 pm
The best bit about that is the arcs. Those are the images of 13 billion year old galaxies having been 'lensed' through the galactic cluster which is the sharper images.

Mind blowing stuff.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: quixoticgeek on 12 July, 2022, 01:17:08 pm

It's the coolest photo ever.

No seriously, the sensor is at like 6° above absolute zero...

J
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: andyoxon on 12 July, 2022, 03:25:58 pm
https://www.nasa.gov/webbfirstimages    :thumbsup:

Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Mr Larrington on 16 July, 2022, 10:20:10 am
Quote from: Pawan_ 2.0 @PawanSaysToo
Latest from James Webb Space Telescope

Highest resolution picture of Jupiter ever captured!

#JamesWebbSpaceTelescope #JWST

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXiMsVlaIAAnEdG?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: barakta on 16 July, 2022, 12:28:34 pm
That would be funnier if they were geese.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Mr Larrington on 16 July, 2022, 05:53:39 pm
Untitled ones :P
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Pingu on 16 July, 2022, 07:41:35 pm
Look like geese from here.
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: barakta on 17 July, 2022, 05:10:34 pm
The one on the right might be a Canada goose, but the rest are DEFINITELY ducks!
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: Giraffe on 16 August, 2022, 04:22:05 pm
Last night's Sky at Night was about JWST. Dear Maggie said that the instruments were at a temperature of 7 deg. Kelvin - ouch!
Title: Re: JWSTelescope
Post by: hbunnet on 16 August, 2022, 05:16:45 pm
The one on the right might be a Canada goose, but the rest are DEFINITELY ducks!

Look like Brent Geese to me.