Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Rides and Touring => Topic started by: Wallace on 05 January, 2022, 02:49:17 pm

Title: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 05 January, 2022, 02:49:17 pm
Looking to do a bit of touring this year. I will require a new bike for this journey, problem is, there are so many to choose from, and some great content out there.

Currently, I am leaning towards the Trek 520, it's their longest running build, has an alloy fork and steel frame this year. Does weigh a bit though.

The Trek 920 looks good also, which I prefer, thought about frame only and a self build, but no idea how to build that up with parts to make a robust and reliable tourer. That would be a bit of research

The plan is, either around Scotland, or, ferry from Newcastle to Denmark, and then the Ferry from Denmark to Iceland, for a few weeks cycling and fly fishing.

What touring cycle would you recommend and why?

Happy New Year Folks!
Title: Re: A Touring Bike List
Post by: joy of essex on 05 January, 2022, 03:20:41 pm
All  touring bikes " weigh a bit", especially now they have disc brakes.

Have  you  looked at the Geneisi/ Ridgeback models?
Title: Re: A Touring Bike List
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 05 January, 2022, 03:25:53 pm
Classic answer would be Surly (Disc) Trucker. Kona Sutra seems very good too. I'm very happy with my Specialized Sequoia, though it certainly does "weigh a bit" (and I don't think they sell it in the UK anymore).
Title: Re: A Touring Bike List
Post by: tatanab on 05 January, 2022, 03:27:30 pm
One assembled yourself to suit your own needs/fantasies/desires.  A great deal of fun can be had procuring new or second hand parts and frame to build it up.  This experience will be of great use should anything go wrong while on your travels.  An off the peg machine will always be some manufacturer's idea of what might suit - or what bits they have in abundance.

I recently assembled one such (another one) for myself because, with the sale of a couple of machines, I found I had almost everything needed to build another - just needing a frame and a rear hub, so I bought a 531 frame from about 1990 and a Shimano 105 hub.  I made sure that the frame I bought had 130 rear ends so that it would be compatible with shop built wheels if I needed something while on tour.  I deliberately wanted it to be a low key build using downtube levers (that I had) instead of Ergo/STI that I use elsewhere.  These were my choices.
Title: Re: A Touring Bike List
Post by: Wallace on 05 January, 2022, 03:29:19 pm
Have  you  looked at the Geneisi/ Ridgeback models?
[/quote]

Genesis look good, but it gets complicated with their 10, 20 and 30 models... and then there is flat bar or drop bar? Mmmm! Cheers!
Title: Re: A Touring Bike List
Post by: Wallace on 05 January, 2022, 03:33:53 pm
One assembled yourself to suit your own needs/fantasies/desires.  A great deal of fun can be had procuring new or second hand parts and frame to build it up.  This experience will be of great use should anything go wrong while on your travels.  An off the peg machine will always be some manufacturer's idea of what might suit - or what bits they have in abundance.

That's an excellent piece of advice, I never got round to fettling much over the decades, usually when I have an issue it goes to the LBS... Being self sufficient and knowing the build inside out, would be useful when out on a limb... Good philosophy...
Title: Re: A Touring Bike List
Post by: JenM on 05 January, 2022, 03:34:33 pm
You need to check the idea of travelling to Denmark direct by ferry. As far as I am aware the only direct ferries are for freight only.
Title: Re: A Touring Bike List
Post by: Wallace on 05 January, 2022, 03:41:43 pm
You need to check the idea of travelling to Denmark direct by ferry. As far as I am aware the only direct ferries are for freight only.

Cheers, will check again...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: BFC on 05 January, 2022, 05:02:42 pm
Traditional high spoke count wheels (like 36 spoke) give the best general reliability and ridability in case of a broken/damaged spoke. Combined with offset rim on the rear its about the strongest and roadside servicable wheels.

You may want to consider hub dynamos if you are travelling/sleeping off grid and want to keep electronics working - not a cheap upgrade and best to do the install yourself so you know what to look for if the system plays up or wiring gets damaged (typically when parked up or in transit).

With the build best to do it yourself or find a local bike fettler whose willing to train you and has most of the occasional use tools.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Paul H on 05 January, 2022, 05:40:27 pm
The two major UK touring specialists are Spa Cycle and Thorn, both worth a look
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s225p0/Bikes/Touring
https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/bikes

You might also find some options among the reviews on the Cycling UK website
https://www.cyclinguk.org/taxonomy/term/6946
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 06 January, 2022, 09:22:20 am
Traditional high spoke count wheels (like 36 spoke) give the best general reliability and ridability in case of a broken/damaged spoke. Combined with offset rim on the rear its about the strongest and roadside servicable wheels.

You may want to consider hub dynamos if you are travelling/sleeping off grid and want to keep electronics working - not a cheap upgrade and best to do the install yourself so you know what to look for if the system plays up or wiring gets damaged (typically when parked up or in transit).

With the build best to do it yourself or find a local bike fettler whose willing to train you and has most of the occasional use tools.

Agree, 36 spoked wheels... The (@) has 32 I think, which means a self build if I go that route, would give an option to fit 36h wheels, would need to research best touring wheels with threw skewer... Cheers...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 06 January, 2022, 09:25:03 am
The two major UK touring specialists are Spa Cycle and Thorn, both worth a look
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s225p0/Bikes/Touring
https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/bikes

You might also find some options among the reviews on the Cycling UK website
https://www.cyclinguk.org/taxonomy/term/6946

Cheers, the thorns are top rated...! Problem at present is getting a bike, not a lot out there... 
Title: Re: A Touring Bike List
Post by: Wallace on 06 January, 2022, 09:27:22 am
All  touring bikes " weigh a bit", especially now they have disc brakes.

Have  you  looked at the Geneisi/ Ridgeback models?

The Genesis Tour looks very robust, flat bar option also, 10, 20 or 30?
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: phil653 on 06 January, 2022, 09:52:59 am
This bloke knows what he's talking about considering the miles he's put in over the years

https://tomsbiketrip.com/which-touring-bike-should-i-buy/
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: sean78 on 06 January, 2022, 09:56:05 am
Check out the Fairlight Faran as well for a great all-rounder and robust touring/gravel bike.

https://fairlightcycles.com/product/faran-2-frameset-deposit/

Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TPMB12 on 06 January, 2022, 10:20:31 am
Take a look at HP Velotechnik (HPV) Streetmachine GTe. A great touring bike. Like cycling in a reclining chair with full suspension and a high load capability, very fit stability and very well engineered/ built.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 06 January, 2022, 12:36:02 pm
This bloke knows what he's talking about considering the miles he's put in over the years

https://tomsbiketrip.com/which-touring-bike-should-i-buy/


Very very helpful website, cheers for that... Its certainly made me think about terrain, and bike capability, or my capability... I think the 520 is still in the running, the 920 too as a self build...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 06 January, 2022, 12:37:48 pm
Check out the Fairlight Faran as well for a great all-rounder and robust touring/gravel bike.

https://fairlightcycles.com/product/faran-2-frameset-deposit/

Yep, that is very nice, not sure about the wheelbase, could be more bikepacking orientated, but very nice indeed...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 06 January, 2022, 12:39:01 pm
Take a look at HP Velotechnik (HPV) Streetmachine GTe. A great touring bike. Like cycling in a reclining chair with full suspension and a high load capability, very fit stability and very well engineered/ built.

Interesting, but not my cuppa, and could be tricky offroad... Cheers...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Kim on 06 January, 2022, 12:52:38 pm
Take a look at HP Velotechnik (HPV) Streetmachine GTe. A great touring bike. Like cycling in a reclining chair with full suspension and a high load capability, very fit stability and very well engineered/ built.

Interesting, but not my cuppa, and could be tricky offroad... Cheers...

Yes, along with the Azub Six, the SMGTe is an excellent touring bike, and far better at carrying luggage and not hurting the rider than any upright.  Reasonably train-friendly.  Being designed for unmade roads, it's about as good off-road as a two-wheel recumbent gets (the limiting factor is mostly the rider's nerve, followed by the diameter of the 20" wheel).  But when the going gets tough, it's not a bike you want to have to push for any real distance.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TPMB12 on 06 January, 2022, 01:24:06 pm
Take a look at HP Velotechnik (HPV) Streetmachine GTe. A great touring bike. Like cycling in a reclining chair with full suspension and a high load capability, very fit stability and very well engineered/ built.

Interesting, but not my cuppa, and could be tricky offroad... Cheers...

Yes, along with the Azub Six, the SMGTe is an excellent touring bike, and far better at carrying luggage and not hurting the rider than any upright.  Reasonably train-friendly.  Being designed for unmade roads, it's about as good off-road as a two-wheel recumbent gets (the limiting factor is mostly the rider's nerve, followed by the diameter of the 20" wheel).  But when the going gets tough, it's not a bike you want to have to push for any real distance.
But it is a nice bike to ride on surfaced roads including our incredibly potholed roads. Used to ride it on the canal. Narrow slicks on wet grass and muddy ruts. Entertaining!

Bear in mind it's still just a bike. Learn to ride it you should be capable of riding more than easy roads. It's just the hills that you suffer on. Until your recumbent legs kick in of course.

I love the stability and planted nature when fully loaded. 135 litres of kit on it and when riding it handled as friendly as when unladen. But you've got to want to ride a recumbent as there's a learning and training aspect to first riding them. Train your legs that is.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 06 January, 2022, 04:00:45 pm
[quote  Train your legs that is. [/quote]

It does look a capable machine, after being away from cycling the past three years, its certainly time to get the legs back into shape... Maybe on a more traditional tourer... Thanks...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: ElyDave on 06 January, 2022, 04:15:54 pm
Check out the Fairlight Faran as well for a great all-rounder and robust touring/gravel bike.

https://fairlightcycles.com/product/faran-2-frameset-deposit/

I've had my eye on one of these for a while as well, as a general tourer/audax/gravel bike, they have a lot going for them in that respect.

With other peoples experience i'm moving away from the idea of titanium in favour of Al or steel. Now just need an excuse, or a wodge of unexpected cash
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: rogerzilla on 06 January, 2022, 04:18:24 pm
The Surly Disc Trucker is the default choice.  Sadly no rim-braked LHT any more.

Thorn tourers are stodgy to ride unloaded and can be fugly (they really love headset spacers!) but they do handle really well with a ton of gear on them.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TPMB12 on 06 January, 2022, 04:21:26 pm
[quote  Train your legs that is.

It does look a capable machine, after being away from cycling the past three years, its certainly time to get the legs back into shape... Maybe on a more traditional tourer... Thanks...
[/quote]
To be fair it's probably is one for when you've done a bit first. A few tours and after you've had a run of cycling. Even when I was commuting every day the switch to recumbent was hard.  I was upright fit but recumbent uses the legs a bit differently.

I. Like genesis tour de fer personally or Spa cycles bikes are very traditional which suits some. Surly disc/long haul trucker I've read is a no compromise tourer which you might not like if you're using it a lot unladen as a commuter or day ride bike. If that's your main use then croix de fer might be a decent option. Have a look at sonder bikes too if backpacking or light touring is your thing. Both off and on road options from sender. I like the trek 520 but there's not many around in the UK right now it seems. A bit harder to get than the others. An outside the mainstream option is from giant. Can't remember the models but there's a European style touring bike option with flat bars and a few gravel bikes with front and rear rack versions. No idea how good they are because there's something a bit different about giant bikes I can't put my finger on. Can't work out if designs are very dated or just a different take on modern design.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: yoav on 06 January, 2022, 04:24:26 pm
Sorry to disappoint but there is no ferry from Newcastle to Denmark. The only ferry is to Ijmuiden (Amsterdam).  There is a weekly service from the north of Denmark to Iceland calling at the Faroes, which I’d love to do sometime though in practice, flying to Iceland is the more practical option.

My tourer of choice is the Shand Stoater Rohloff.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 06 January, 2022, 04:50:45 pm
Sorry to disappoint but there is no ferry from Newcastle to Denmark. The only ferry is to Ijmuiden (Amsterdam).  There is a weekly service from the north of Denmark to Iceland calling at the Faroes, which I’d love to do sometime though in practice, flying to Iceland is the more practical option.

My tourer of choice is the Shand Stoater Rohloff.

Pity about that, there was one from Newcastle, there is a ferry to Esbjerg also, not sure where from... Faroe is amazing, I would recommend a fish supper (Fish & chips) at Torshaven, best I have ever had... I will check out the Stoater,... Cheers!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 06 January, 2022, 04:55:16 pm
[quote  Train your legs that is.

It does look a capable machine, after being away from cycling the past three years, its certainly time to get the legs back into shape... Maybe on a more traditional tourer... Thanks...
To be fair it's probably is one for when you've done a bit first. A few tours and after you've had a run of cycling. Even when I was commuting every day the switch to recumbent was hard.  I was upright fit but recumbent uses the legs a bit differently.

I. Like genesis tour de fer personally or Spa cycles bikes are very traditional which suits some. Surly disc/long haul trucker I've read is a no compromise tourer which you might not like if you're using it a lot unladen as a commuter or day ride bike. If that's your main use then croix de fer might be a decent option. Have a look at sonder bikes too if backpacking or light touring is your thing. Both off and on road options from sender. I like the trek 520 but there's not many around in the UK right now it seems. A bit harder to get than the others. An outside the mainstream option is from giant. Can't remember the models but there's a European style touring bike option with flat bars and a few gravel bikes with front and rear rack versions. No idea how good they are because there's something a bit different about giant bikes I can't put my finger on. Can't work out if designs are very dated or just a different take on modern design.
[/quote]

Thanks, my LBS has just pulled out a boxed Trek 520 in my size, which is very tempting, it would save on a self build, I could strip it down and build it before leaving to get used to the bike... It may double as a good commuter training bike also... It takes 2.00 inch tyres... Decisions!
Title: Re: A Touring Bike List
Post by: Oscar's dad on 06 January, 2022, 05:35:11 pm
Classic answer would be Surly (Disc) Trucker. Kona Sutra seems very good too. I'm very happy with my Specialized Sequoia, though it certainly does "weigh a bit" (and I don't think they sell it in the UK anymore).

Cudz is bang on the money.  I've have a Surly Disc Trucker (Fred) since 2015 and love it.  I haven't done masses of touring and yes the DT is heavy but Fred has never ridden like a heavy bike.  I also have a lightweight wheel set which makes him like a different bike.

Fred feels as safe as houses when descending at speed, even when carrying touring loads, and is my go anywhere, do anything bike.  I'm sure there are other bikes which are just as good but I'd recommend a Surly Disc Trucker.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: sg37409 on 06 January, 2022, 05:55:34 pm
I had a trek 920 from a few years back but looks like the same frame as the current model.  I didn’t get on with the geometry much and gave it to my nephew.  It was a good tourer.   
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bhoot on 06 January, 2022, 06:18:10 pm
there is a ferry to Esbjerg also, not sure where from...
The passenger/car ferry WAS from Harwich, sadly withdrawn a few years ago. I found out on this forum that it was the final year of operation and very quickly booked it - we had an amazing tour from our front door to Oslo and back utilising the Harwich-Esbjerg ferry each way, the Hirtshals-Bergen and Oslo-Copenhagen overnight crossings (and two smaller ferries to and from a Danish island to avoid putting the tandem on the train across the Great Belt)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Karla on 06 January, 2022, 07:05:37 pm
If you're thinking of going to Iceland, I was there for three weeks this September.  The ring road is nice enough, but most of the interesting stuff is in the interior, which involves riding unmade roads.  These vary from hard rock to gravel to black sand, potentially switching every hundred yards, depending on how long since the latest volcanic eruption in that area.  The black sand is particularly annoying to ride over as you will sink in it and  progress is very slow - you'll learn to love washboard as at least it gives you something solid to ride over.  Get the widest tyres you can.  I was on 700x45, and though I wished I'd had wider, I had an easier time than my friend who had narrower (35ish) tyres and a heavier bike, as I could float over some of the bits where he dug in.  My bike - a Kinesis Tripster, which I'd thoroughly recommend - could have taken 50 mm tyres; it looks like the 520 will take at least that size, so make sure you fit them, and don't overpack. 

There's no ferrry UK-Denmark anymore, but as mentioned upthread, if you get the ferry from there to Iceland you can stop off in the Faroe Islands.  I didn't do this but it sounds like an excellent idea if you've got the time. 
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: mike on 06 January, 2022, 09:28:49 pm
controversially, I sold my surly long haul trucker because I didn't like the way it rode without luggage (it was **amazing** with a load).  So I bought a surly crosscheck instead - Love it to bits.  is loads of fun on road, did sterling service as a brisk winter club ride bike (with lighter wheels) and has done a few well loaded tours with panniers front and back.

I'd go direct to a surly straggler now, the only thing wrong with my crosscheck is the brakes aren't great fully loaded, on a steep downhill, in the wet.  I weigh 110kgs though...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bobb on 06 January, 2022, 09:41:50 pm
My LHT is now into the second half of its second decade. I'll probably keep it forever as I can't see it dying before I do! It is an excellent touring machine and has done many, many fully loaded miles.

However, now that my Ti Tripster is a few years old, I fancy giving it a bit of abuse. It will also give me an opportunity to make a comparison for myself regarding traditional tourers vs more modern "Bike packing" (*vomits*) bikes rather than taking the word of some hipster kid with a silly beard...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: IanDG on 06 January, 2022, 09:42:39 pm
Another Trucker rider here (LHT not disc). I haven't got round to loading up for a tour yet (went into lockdown as I was planning my first tour) but like the way it rides unladen. It soaks up the miles - not fast but comfortable. I've even used it  for a few 200/300km audax events and managed 25kph moving average.

Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bobb on 06 January, 2022, 09:43:27 pm
Another Trucker rider here (LHT not disc). I haven't got round to loading up for a tour yet and like the way it rides unladen. It soaks up the miles - not fast but comfortable, I've even used it  for a few 200/300km audax events and managed 25kph moving average.

I did an SR on mine. Then PBP  :)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: IanDG on 06 January, 2022, 09:44:36 pm


I did an SR on mine. Then PBP  :)

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TPMB12 on 06 January, 2022, 09:49:40 pm
Sorry to disappoint but there is no ferry from Newcastle to Denmark. The only ferry is to Ijmuiden (Amsterdam).  There is a weekly service from the north of Denmark to Iceland calling at the Faroes, which I’d love to do sometime though in practice, flying to Iceland is the more practical option.

My tourer of choice is the Shand Stoater Rohloff.

Pity about that, there was one from Newcastle, there is a ferry to Esbjerg also, not sure where from... Faroe is amazing, I would recommend a fish supper (Fish & chips) at Torshaven, best I have ever had... I will check out the Stoater,... Cheers!
Harwich to Esbjerg was with DFDS and ceased in 2014. There is a ferry run by DFDS from Immingham but its trucks only.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TPMB12 on 06 January, 2022, 09:53:02 pm
[quote  Train your legs that is.

It does look a capable machine, after being away from cycling the past three years, its certainly time to get the legs back into shape... Maybe on a more traditional tourer... Thanks...
To be fair it's probably is one for when you've done a bit first. A few tours and after you've had a run of cycling. Even when I was commuting every day the switch to recumbent was hard.  I was upright fit but recumbent uses the legs a bit differently.

I. Like genesis tour de fer personally or Spa cycles bikes are very traditional which suits some. Surly disc/long haul trucker I've read is a no compromise tourer which you might not like if you're using it a lot unladen as a commuter or day ride bike. If that's your main use then croix de fer might be a decent option. Have a look at sonder bikes too if backpacking or light touring is your thing. Both off and on road options from sender. I like the trek 520 but there's not many around in the UK right now it seems. A bit harder to get than the others. An outside the mainstream option is from giant. Can't remember the models but there's a European style touring bike option with flat bars and a few gravel bikes with front and rear rack versions. No idea how good they are because there's something a bit different about giant bikes I can't put my finger on. Can't work out if designs are very dated or just a different take on modern design.

Thanks, my LBS has just pulled out a boxed Trek 520 in my size, which is very tempting, it would save on a self build, I could strip it down and build it before leaving to get used to the bike... It may double as a good commuter training bike also... It takes 2.00 inch tyres... Decisions!
[/quote]
The 520 is the longest running trek bike apparently,  the oldest model made by them that's still sold. It's not changed much only modernised components but the geometry I believe never changed. I think that says a lot about the quality of the 520's design.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: mzjo on 06 January, 2022, 10:38:42 pm
If you want to build your own bike the 520 is available as a framekit (at least it is in France!) 669€ incl post. Sounds like a good deal to me as these things go. Cheaper than the Strangler (although perhaps not the Disc  Trucker).
I have a clubmate with a DT, he swears by it loaded. Before he had a 650 Confrérie Evolution 3 that used to shimmy very badly loaded (he is a big bloke). I also came across someone from another club who did PBP on an LHT.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 07 January, 2022, 08:02:49 am
Thanks for all the comments folks...

Lotta LHT/LHDTs out there...

Great to know that in a post-Brexit sea faring Island nation, we sail literally nowhere... There was a route between Norway from Shetland, will check that out also... I have a few weeks of freedom this year, so I am flexible on travel, remote and fly-fishing is the main objective, with a decent enough bike to carry the load and tackle a bit of off-road/gravel etc...

I'll check out the Trek 520 at LBS its £1300.00, 36h wheels, racks included, alivio groupset, 2021 model, the 2022 model is £1600.00+, good to know it will fit wider tires also if Iceland is a go...

Cheers!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 07 January, 2022, 08:49:15 am
Och, just when ye think ye have the bike all sorted, up pops this wee beastie... Very braw indeed!

Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: yoav on 07 January, 2022, 09:26:30 am
Sorry to disappoint again but the Smyril line ferry that runs between Denmark, Faroes and Iceland stopped calling into Shetland about 15 years ago.

I was in my local branch of outdoor seller Tiso and their in-house cycle shop Alpine bikes had this:
https://www.tiso.com/bicyg1al0168/bombtrack-arise-tour-blue/00212613 (https://www.tiso.com/bicyg1al0168/bombtrack-arise-tour-blue/00212613)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 07 January, 2022, 10:23:52 am
... controversially, I sold my surly long haul trucker because I didn't like the way it rode without luggage (it was **amazing** with a load)...

Its interesting how people have different experiences with the same machines.  I find my Disc Trucker, which I am assuming is exactly the same frame geometry as the LHT, rides beautifully when lightly loaded. 

In fact me and Fred, lightly loaded and fitted with his lightweight wheelset, spent 6 days in the Alps with some yacf chums back in 2018; Fred never put a foot wrong and was a lovely ride.  If you have 13 minutes so spare HERE (https://youtu.be/GgY9qV_ZOk4) is what it looks and feels like to descend from a French alpine col aboard a Surly Disc Trucker!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 07 January, 2022, 10:27:26 am
Sorry to disappoint again but the Smyril line ferry that runs between Denmark, Faroes and Iceland stopped calling into Shetland about 15 years ago.

I was in my local branch of outdoor seller Tiso and their in-house cycle shop Alpine bikes had this:
https://www.tiso.com/bicyg1al0168/bombtrack-arise-tour-blue/00212613 (https://www.tiso.com/bicyg1al0168/bombtrack-arise-tour-blue/00212613)

That Bombtrack is a nice machine also, pity about the Smyrill line... I have heard, that it may be possible to book a bunk on a freight vessel as a solo passenger... But their are plenty fallback options, three weeks touring Scotland, would be just as wonderful... That would be four more days fishing also! Thanks for the heads up, very helpful this thread...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 07 January, 2022, 10:39:13 am
In fact me and Fred, lightly loaded and fitted with his lightweight wheelset, spent 6 days in the Alps with some yacf chums back in 2018; Fred never put a foot wrong and was a lovely ride.  If you have 13 minutes so spare HERE (https://youtu.be/GgY9qV_ZOk4) is what it looks and feels like to descend from a French alpine col aboard a Surly Disc Trucker!
I enjoyed watching that. Doing it must have been great fun!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 07 January, 2022, 10:45:32 am
... controversially, I sold my surly long haul trucker because I didn't like the way it rode without luggage (it was **amazing** with a load)...

Its interesting how people have different experiences with the same machines.  I find my Disc Trucker, which I am assuming is exactly the same frame geometry as the LHT, rides beautifully when lightly loaded. 

In fact me and Fred, lightly loaded and fitted with his lightweight wheelset, spent 6 days in the Alps with some yacf chums back in 2018; Fred never put a foot wrong and was a lovely ride.  If you have 13 minutes so spare HERE (https://youtu.be/GgY9qV_ZOk4) is what it looks and feels like to descend from a French alpine col aboard a Surly Disc Trucker!

Well done, hope you were wearing knee sliders... The bike looked fairly planted, not twitchy at all... If I were 40 years younger, I would have had my longboard down there  ;D... Question is, how was it going up? Was there a Ferry? Cheers!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 07 January, 2022, 10:57:34 am
In fact me and Fred, lightly loaded and fitted with his lightweight wheelset, spent 6 days in the Alps with some yacf chums back in 2018; Fred never put a foot wrong and was a lovely ride.  If you have 13 minutes so spare HERE (https://youtu.be/GgY9qV_ZOk4) is what it looks and feels like to descend from a French alpine col aboard a Surly Disc Trucker!
I enjoyed watching that. Doing it must have been great fun!

It was great fun, were went in 2014 as well and did much the same routes in 2018 - we'll be going again in the not too distant future I hope.

... controversially, I sold my surly long haul trucker because I didn't like the way it rode without luggage (it was **amazing** with a load)...

Its interesting how people have different experiences with the same machines.  I find my Disc Trucker, which I am assuming is exactly the same frame geometry as the LHT, rides beautifully when lightly loaded. 

In fact me and Fred, lightly loaded and fitted with his lightweight wheelset, spent 6 days in the Alps with some yacf chums back in 2018; Fred never put a foot wrong and was a lovely ride.  If you have 13 minutes so spare HERE (https://youtu.be/GgY9qV_ZOk4) is what it looks and feels like to descend from a French alpine col aboard a Surly Disc Trucker!

Well done, hope you were wearing knee sliders... The bike looked fairly planted, not twitchy at all... If I were 40 years younger, I would have had my longboard down there  ;D... Question is, how was it going up? Was there a Ferry? Cheers!

Thanks, the bike was very well planted and no twitching.  I have descended at speed full loaded with Fred's heavy wheel set and he's just as well planted.  Descending Snake Pass sticks in my memory, as you went round bends at speed you could feel the frame, wheels and tyres subtly flexing and working together, it was amazing!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 07 January, 2022, 10:59:28 am
Fred fully loaded up...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/4378/37301975355_0d1efbde10_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YQfnG8)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 07 January, 2022, 11:07:35 am
 :thumbsup: Nice set up... I am looking forward to this trip now... Thanks for sharing OD...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 07 January, 2022, 11:10:37 am
:thumbsup: Nice set up... I am looking forward to this trip now... Thanks for sharing OD...

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 07 January, 2022, 12:25:07 pm
OD remind me what commission did Surly have you on?
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 07 January, 2022, 12:36:42 pm
OD remind me what commission did Surly have you on?

0% regrettably!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Karla on 07 January, 2022, 03:28:26 pm
Och, just when ye think ye have the bike all sorted, up pops this wee beastie... Very braw indeed!

  • https://www.stanforthbikes.co.uk/kibo-dirt-drop/li]
Tbh if you're thinking of heavily loaded touring potentially on dirt roads, I'd go discs.  Your rims are bound to take a beating and a buckled rim won't kill your braking on a disc bike.[/list]
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: rogerzilla on 07 January, 2022, 03:51:28 pm
Tubus Tara, OD?  I can't get mine level on the LHT, either.  The fork bosses are in the wrong place or Tubus have put the mounting slot too far forwards on the rack struts.  You'd think there would be a Blackburn low-rider standard they could follow.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 07 January, 2022, 03:55:58 pm
Tubus Tara, OD?  I can't get mine level on the LHT, either...

Yes I think so, it's annoying you can't them level.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Canardly on 07 January, 2022, 04:08:08 pm
OD what is that Ortlieb? bag you have mounted laterally at the tail end?
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 07 January, 2022, 04:14:54 pm
OD what is that Ortlieb? bag you have mounted laterally at the tail end?

On the back, sitting on the rack top is a Carradice, my tent in a bag and a folding stool. The photo was taken back in 2015 just after I'd finished building the bike and I was seeing how much weight it would carry and what it felt like to ride.  Conclusion: a lot and lovely  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: rogerzilla on 07 January, 2022, 04:27:33 pm
When you load up a touring bike, the 22T chainring gets dirty for the first time!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 07 January, 2022, 04:29:14 pm
When you load up a touring bike, the 22T chainring gets dirty for the first time!

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Paul H on 07 January, 2022, 04:55:27 pm
If you get seduced by the LHT lobby, be aware the current disc model is considerably different from those being discussed here, it may or may not suit you, but considering the current model on the basis of reviews of the previous might be a mistake.
I have three touring bikes, not just because I'm greedy, there's also more than one type of tour and the bikes are considerably different. You can't really go wrong, buy something designed as a touring bike and it'll be fine to go touring on, many bikes not designed for it are also fine.  If you do have a better idea of what you like and what you want to do with it, the chances are you'll get a better bike, you might just get lucky or it might take a few bikes to get there.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 07 January, 2022, 05:04:51 pm
If you get seduced by the LHT lobby, be aware the current disc model is considerably different from those being discussed here, it may or may not suit you, but considering the current model on the basis of reviews of the previous might be a mistake.
I have three touring bikes, not just because I'm greedy, there's also more than one type of tour and the bikes are considerably different. You can't really go wrong, buy something designed as a touring bike and it'll be fine to go touring on, many bikes not designed for it are also fine.  If you do have a better idea of what you like and what you want to do with it, the chances are you'll get a better bike, you might just get lucky or it might take a few bikes to get there.

Very good points ^^^
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: ElyDave on 07 January, 2022, 06:03:45 pm
Very true, of the bikes I have  now, two are 17 yo Al frame carbon fork road bike with triple, and >20 years old 26" wheel MTB with rigid frame. Since buying those I've bought and sold a full carbon road bike and a 29'er with front suspension. Both were fast, but just not as enjoyable or comfortable for the rides I do.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: IanDG on 07 January, 2022, 06:09:21 pm
Tubus Tara, OD?  I can't get mine level on the LHT, either.  The fork bosses are in the wrong place or Tubus have put the mounting slot too far forwards on the rack struts.  You'd think there would be a Blackburn low-rider standard they could follow.

Aah, thanks for that - I've bought Tara for when I finally get round to my first camping trip. Won't be pulling my hair out thinking I'm doing something wrong and spend hours trying to get it level  ;D
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 07 January, 2022, 08:40:49 pm
Cheers all, very helpful… Wallace…
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 08 January, 2022, 12:54:08 pm


Just a quick word re building your own.

The bike industry supply chain is really screwed up at the moment. I just tried to buy some shifters and was getting 32+ week ETA's for when they will have stock. You may find that your choice of components are not the ones you want, but simply the ones you can get hold of.

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 14 January, 2022, 11:02:21 am
What Quixotic said.

I came here to say something similar. The problem isn't just availability, but cost. I've just bought chainset, chain, cassette and jockey wheels = £180

It is really important to have gears low enough for you (when touring), and many bikes are sold with a stupid 50/34 setup. Thankfully the gravel market is changing that. The old touring standard of a good-sized big ring and a twiddly grannie ring has returned after a couple of decades.

So buying a complete bike will probably be cheaper than building one up.

If I were setting up a bike for extended touring, I'd probably plump for either down tube or bar end shifters (that can be operated in friction mode). Easier to get replacement gear bits on the road if something like a cassette or derailleur breaks.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 14 January, 2022, 11:45:10 am
If I were setting up a bike for extended touring, I'd probably plump for either down tube or bar end shifters (that can be operated in friction mode). Easier to get replacement gear bits on the road if something like a cassette or derailleur breaks.

Agree!  :thumbsup: 

Fred is 100% friction so front and back derailleurs can be trimmed to cope with massive gear ranges.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Kim on 14 January, 2022, 02:34:15 pm
If I were setting up a bike for extended touring, I'd probably plump for either down tube or bar end shifters (that can be operated in friction mode). Easier to get replacement gear bits on the road if something like a cassette or derailleur breaks.

I got pissed off with the Dura-Ace bar end shifters being ridiculously fragile - there's a plastic friction ring that cracks easily if the lever is subject to significant sideways force (eg. from the bike falling over or bouncing against it on a train), at which point neither indexed nor friction shifting works.  For the last few years I've been using the Microshift alternative, which seems much more robust, but lacks the ability to disable the indexing.

I do however have a friction thumb-shifter operating a second brake on my rear wheel.  This is extremely useful on a recumbent, as you can lock it on and sit astride the bike hands-free, but the benefits of stabilising the bike when using a kick-stand, faffing with luggage or securing it on trains are equally applicable to an upright.  If one of my shifters were damaged on a long tour, I could re-purpose it to operate the relevant derailleur.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bobb on 14 January, 2022, 03:06:24 pm
If I were setting up a bike for extended touring, I'd probably plump for either down tube or bar end shifters (that can be operated in friction mode). Easier to get replacement gear bits on the road if something like a cassette or derailleur breaks.

Why would parts be easier to get if you're using down tube or bar end shifters? And what relevance is that to broken cassettes* or mechs?

*Has anyone ever actually "broken" a cassette?!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 14 January, 2022, 03:09:23 pm
If I were setting up a bike for extended touring, I'd probably plump for either down tube or bar end shifters (that can be operated in friction mode). Easier to get replacement gear bits on the road if something like a cassette or derailleur breaks.

Why would parts be easier to get if you're using down tube or bar end shifters? And what relevance is that to broken cassettes* or mechs?

*Has anyone ever actually "broken" a cassette?!

I think it's because as the shifters can be set to be friction rather then indexed it means if you end up with say an 8 speed cassette or a weird and wonderful derailleur you can still work it

Although I imagine breaking a cassette might be hard although if the wheel broke and you had to change to a different spec rear wheel same effect
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bobb on 14 January, 2022, 03:12:14 pm
Ah, I see - any old cassette and mech will do...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: tatanab on 14 January, 2022, 03:23:13 pm
If I were setting up a bike for extended touring, I'd probably plump for either down tube or bar end shifters (that can be operated in friction mode). Easier to get replacement gear bits on the road if something like a cassette or derailleur breaks.
Agreed.  My touring frames are custom built, so I have brazed on downtube lever bosses so that if my ergo levers or rear dropout get mangled I will have an escape route.  To that end, I carry a right hand friction lever - just in case.  No need to carry a left since changes on that side are less frequent and could be done by hand.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 14 January, 2022, 03:40:21 pm
Ah, I see - any old cassette and mech will do...

Exactly this. Ironically more of an issue now with the supply problems.

Being able to fit anything - say, 9spd cassette when you have a 10spd setup, or, more likely, a random rear mech because you've dropped clothing in the gearing and broken the mech.

Friction will work with anything.

My mercian has indexed bar ends, not sure of the model (they are really robust, I've crashed that bike multiple times in a day), that can be switched to friction mode. Terrific kit.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bobb on 14 January, 2022, 04:21:40 pm
I still wouldn't be seen dead on a bike with bar end shifters  :P
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 14 January, 2022, 04:33:23 pm
When I tried bar ends, I couldn't get on with them. I'd far rather have d/t shifters if I were to go friction mode. But I'm sure this is in large part a question of what you're used to.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 14 January, 2022, 05:23:41 pm
Bar ends are pretty crap, bash on your knees if you don't shorten the bars, long cables in the way and make shifts worse, get scratched or change gear when you lean the bike against a wall.

Bobb's right, they look awful.

Downtube shifters the coolest and best.
 
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 14 January, 2022, 05:25:02 pm
Fred fully loaded up...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/4378/37301975355_0d1efbde10_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YQfnG8)

Amazing, how many long tours have you ridden with that set up OD?
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 14 January, 2022, 05:25:47 pm
Bar ends are pretty crap, bash on your knees if you don't shorten the bars, long cables in the way and make shifts worse, get scratched or change gear when you lean the bike against a wall.

Bobby's right, they look awful.

Downtube shifters the coolest and best.

I like bar ends!  I know they can get in the way but they are nice to use.  Fred has Salsa Woodchipper bars so the bar ends are well away from your knees.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Kim on 14 January, 2022, 05:27:23 pm
Bar ends are pretty crap, bash on your knees if you don't shorten the bars, long cables in the way and make shifts worse

To be fair, these are a fault specific to drop handlebars, not the shifters.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 14 January, 2022, 05:28:21 pm
Fred fully loaded up...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/4378/37301975355_0d1efbde10_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YQfnG8)

Amazing, how many long tours have you ridden with that set up OD?

Up North week long tour in 2016.

Another week long tour in up to Stone, Staffs in 2017.  Plus various weekends.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 14 January, 2022, 05:31:53 pm
Fantastic, I thought you always drove there and caught the train home. You've gone up in my estimation.

Not so much for all the unnecessary stuff you take with you though.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Lightning Phil on 14 January, 2022, 05:37:19 pm
I like bar ends, and they just work unlike STI levers.   My road bike has index 10 speed bar ends, the recumbent I have 9 speed bar ends on friction.  I sometimes swap the road bike 10 speed wheel onto the recumbent.  No fiddling with cable tension etc to get it to work. Just chuck the wheel in and go.

As for banging your knees on bar ends on drops. The solution is slightly flared drops. The problem goes away.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 14 January, 2022, 05:37:56 pm
Fantastic, I thought you always drove there and caught the train home. You've gone up in my estimation.

Not so much for all the unnecessary stuff you take with you though.

 ;D

Both tours featured 120 mile first days with 80ish mile second days.  Its all on Strava.

Re the amount of kit... the front Ortliebs aren't completely full neither is the Carradice on the back.  I tend to keep some free room in the Carradice for food.  I also have full cooking kit (Trangia) onboard, on the Stone and back tour I did a steak dinner with all trimmings on the final night.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 14 January, 2022, 05:48:00 pm
What happened after the 2nd day though?
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 14 January, 2022, 05:53:21 pm
What happened after the 2nd day though?

On the Up North tour, as we were into the hills we were doing 30 to 40 miles a day.  On Stone and back I was doing about 60 a day.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bobb on 14 January, 2022, 06:11:38 pm
Bar ends are pretty crap, bash on your knees if you don't shorten the bars, long cables in the way and make shifts worse, get scratched or change gear when you lean the bike against a wall.

Bobb's right, they look awful.

Downtube shifters the coolest and best.
 

The last time I had a bike with downtube shifters was in the 80s. The decade that taste forgot and unfortunately some still inhabit  :P
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: perpetual dan on 14 January, 2022, 06:22:52 pm
I like my bar end shifters. No knee issues, and they’ve broken no more than STIs. The only annoyance I’ve had is that the cable run to the rear mech needs a “tandem” inner on my bike, which has pannier friendly seatstays.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bobb on 14 January, 2022, 06:59:19 pm
People often seem to fret about Ergos and STDs breaking when on tour, hence their insistence on down pube or bell end shifters. The Ergos on my tourer are 17 years old and have been bashed and battered over many tens of thousands of miles. They've never broken. They did start to get a bit vague after about 10 years, but they still worked and I just got them rebuilt when I got around to it....
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Lightning Phil on 14 January, 2022, 07:57:17 pm
If was my experience of STIs breaking that made me shift to bar end shifters.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bobb on 14 January, 2022, 08:06:10 pm
I guess that's Shimano for you... Ergos don't break  :P
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 14 January, 2022, 08:09:01 pm

One of the great joys of Di2, is multiple shifting locations. So if one of my shifters dies, I can just use one of the others. I can even remap them from my phone...

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TPMB12 on 14 January, 2022, 08:11:42 pm
I've got bar ends on my recumbent,  they point up on the USS so pretty hard to bash your knees when cycling. Rear shifter is indexed front us traction. Works very well indeed. My road bike has downtube shifters. Much prefer my road bike with paddle shifters and indexed gears.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: cycleman on 14 January, 2022, 08:26:23 pm
I still hanker after a pair friction thumbshifters. Simple and effective  :)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 14 January, 2022, 08:32:27 pm
I've had a few sti cable breaks, it's poor design in the brifter, the cable has a sharp 90 degree bend on to the ratchet. It can be awkward to retrieve the broken cable too. Shimano shifting accuracy seems to be sensitive to cable condition.

Might try Campagnolo next, what have you got on your Tripster bobb?

Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 14 January, 2022, 08:34:48 pm
People often seem to fret about Ergos and STDs breaking when on tour, hence their insistence on down pube or bell end shifters. The Ergos on my tourer are 17 years old and have been bashed and battered over many tens of thousands of miles. They've never broken. They did start to get a bit vague after about 10 years, but they still worked and I just got them rebuilt when I got around to it....
Just wondering about this sequence of "apparent typos"...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 14 January, 2022, 08:35:30 pm
Bar ends are pretty crap, bash on your knees if you don't shorten the bars, long cables in the way and make shifts worse, get scratched or change gear when you lean the bike against a wall.

Bobb's right, they look awful.

Downtube shifters the coolest and best.
 

The last time I had a bike with downtube shifters was in the 80s. The decade that taste forgot and unfortunately some still inhabit  :P

Your stuck in the 90s though bobb, hardly an improvement.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 14 January, 2022, 08:36:46 pm
People often seem to fret about Ergos and STDs breaking when on tour, hence their insistence on down pube or bell end shifters. The Ergos on my tourer are 17 years old and have been bashed and battered over many tens of thousands of miles. They've never broken. They did start to get a bit vague after about 10 years, but they still worked and I just got them rebuilt when I got around to it....
Just wondering about this sequence of "apparent typos"...

It's a representation of your usual vocabulary bobb!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Paul H on 14 January, 2022, 08:43:39 pm
My spares kit, when touring on a derailleur bike, includes a down tube friction shifter with a cable attached. It's the size of a matchbox, 70g, can be fitted front or back in less time than it takes to fix a puncture and leaves me free to use my shifters of choice (Ergo 9spd) without worrying about mishaps. 
I started carrying it after crash damaging an Ergo about 15 years ago, I haven't used it yet.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: LateStarter on 15 January, 2022, 06:34:10 am
There is no UK distributor for these touring bikes (Vivente) but the web site is a treasure trove of touring info and 40 years of experience worldwide, well worth a browse, especially the "Guidance" sections for general advice applicable to any brand touring bike and the About>Test Trips sections for a life time of touring, just about everywhere

https://viventebikes.com/

Noel (the owner) insists on personally testing every component change on months long overseas tours, a really tough job but someone has to do it (he says) !

(disclosure, I have a 2013 model)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Pickled Onion on 15 January, 2022, 10:03:10 am
Och, just when ye think ye have the bike all sorted, up pops this wee beastie... Very braw indeed!

  • https://www.stanforthbikes.co.uk/kibo-dirt-drop/li]
Tbh if you're thinking of heavily loaded touring potentially on dirt roads, I'd go discs.  Your rims are bound to take a beating and a buckled rim won't kill your braking on a disc bike.[/list]

I've never had a bike with disc brakes, so this may be a dumb question: how easy is it to pack up a bike in a soft bag for flying so that the discs don't get bent in transit?
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: JonBuoy on 15 January, 2022, 10:24:58 am
If I were setting up a bike for extended touring, I'd probably plump for either down tube or bar end shifters (that can be operated in friction mode). Easier to get replacement gear bits on the road if something like a cassette or derailleur breaks.

Why would parts be easier to get if you're using down tube or bar end shifters? And what relevance is that to broken cassettes* or mechs?

*Has anyone ever actually "broken" a cassette?!

I helped out a guy a few years ago on the Kidderminster Killer who had broken his cassette.  He didn't understand why his gears were playing up until I pointed out that a significant chunk of one of the larger cogs on his expensive-looking cassette was making a bid for freedom.  I fully removed the broken chunk and told him not to use what was left of that gear and to be really careful when he changed across the gap that was left.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 15 January, 2022, 04:08:54 pm
Quote from: Pickled Onion
[/quote

I've never had a bike with disc brakes, so this may be a dumb question: how easy is it to pack up a bike in a soft bag for flying so that the discs don't get bent in transit?

I'd you are running hydraulics then more of an issue is someone or something applying the brake levers and the pads coming out too far so having either a lock for the lever or something to stick in between the pads is worth doing.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 15 January, 2022, 04:13:39 pm
I'd you are running hydraulics then more of an issue is someone or something applying the brake levers and the pads coming out too far so having either a lock for the lever or something to stick in between the pads is worth doing.

That's why you need to remember to put the little yellow plastic blocks into the caliper between the pads so that this doesn't happen.

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Paul H on 15 January, 2022, 05:26:10 pm
I've never had a bike with disc brakes, so this may be a dumb question: how easy is it to pack up a bike in a soft bag for flying so that the discs don't get bent in transit?
Plenty of bike bagging vids on Youtube, some different options, but the obvious thing is to pack the wheels with the rotors facing into the bag. 
If that's not possible, or you're still not convinced they're well enough protected, it's a quick job to remove them and transport them somewhere else.  I've done this a couple of times when taking an Airnimal on coach holidays without a decent bag, rotors came off and packed in a pannier.   
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Kim on 15 January, 2022, 06:09:25 pm
And ultimately, truing a disc rotor isn't particularly difficult given somewhere quiet and an adjustable spanner.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 15 January, 2022, 10:01:12 pm
And ultimately, truing a disc rotor isn't particularly difficult given somewhere quiet and an adjustable spanner.

Or a bottle opener...

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/tools/products/bottle-opener-with-rotor-truing-tool

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Karla on 15 January, 2022, 10:50:57 pm
If I were setting up a bike for extended touring, I'd probably plump for either down tube or bar end shifters (that can be operated in friction mode). Easier to get replacement gear bits on the road if something like a cassette or derailleur breaks.

Why would parts be easier to get if you're using down tube or bar end shifters? And what relevance is that to broken cassettes* or mechs?

*Has anyone ever actually "broken" a cassette?!

I have to agree.

I went round the world with bar-ends rather than STIs but it wasn't for reliability, it was so I could run 8 speed gears.  The supply of decent 8 speed stuff is drying up though, so it probably didn't buy me much of an advantage.  If I did it again I'd probably run 10 speed and STIs, and know I could get high quality spares anywhere across Asia.  Loads of intercontinental tourists do this and they don't seem to come to any harm.

The other thing to note about STIs breaking (which they won't, because they don't) is that non-functioning gears are a lot less of a problem than non-functioning brakes, so you don't need to worry about them quite so much.  One could kill you, the other will just mean you have to push up a few hills until you get to the next bike shop.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 16 January, 2022, 08:31:57 am
When I built Fred I went for friction shifting from the outset as I didn't want the hassle of tuning index shifting to cope with a huge gear range.  On the road I find friction shifting just as easy to use as index shifting which I have on another bike (Dakota).

On Fred I swapped to downtube friction shifters when Fred was going to spend a lot of time being transported on car roof racks.  DT shifters were fine but I've swapped back to bar ends as its nice to be able shift without taking your hands off the bars.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 16 January, 2022, 12:28:40 pm
My 9 speed downtube shifters are indexed. Very easy to set up, I eyed up the rear sprockets and jockey wheels and adjusted the limit stops and cable tension before I put the chain on and it turned out accurate.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 19 January, 2022, 09:31:00 am
If I were setting up a bike for extended touring, I'd probably plump for either down tube or bar end shifters (that can be operated in friction mode). Easier to get replacement gear bits on the road if something like a cassette or derailleur breaks.

Why would parts be easier to get if you're using down tube or bar end shifters? And what relevance is that to broken cassettes* or mechs?

*Has anyone ever actually "broken" a cassette?!

I have to agree.

I went round the world with bar-ends rather than STIs but it wasn't for reliability, it was so I could run 8 speed gears.  The supply of decent 8 speed stuff is drying up though, so it probably didn't buy me much of an advantage.  If I did it again I'd probably run 10 speed and STIs, and know I could get high quality spares anywhere across Asia.  Loads of intercontinental tourists do this and they don't seem to come to any harm.

The other thing to note about STIs breaking (which they won't, because they don't) is that non-functioning gears are a lot less of a problem than non-functioning brakes, so you don't need to worry about them quite so much.  One could kill you, the other will just mean you have to push up a few hills until you get to the next bike shop.

I said 'break' but that was the wrong phrase. More likely is the chain and cassette wearing out. Having shifters that can be operated in friction mode means you could fit a cassette of a different type; e.g. 8 or 9 speed.

Say your wheel gets buckled. You can get a replacement in a local shop, but it is 10spd shimano and you have 11spd campag shifters. No problem if you can run in friction mode.

Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bobb on 19 January, 2022, 11:44:13 am
Say your wheel gets buckled.

You ain't half pessimistic! I haven't buckled a wheel since some time back in the 20th century. And I've slammed into some pretty deep unseen/unavoidbale potholes whilst fully loaded....

Edit: Of course, someone will be along in a minute to talk about all their buckled wheels :P

Edit 2: Modern bike shops are far more likely to stock modern components. Finding spares for your obselete 7 or 8 speed drive train is going to be harder than finding current stuff...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TimC on 19 January, 2022, 12:03:48 pm
Bobb, people love to be reactionary and antediluvian and live as much as possible in the past - ‘cos it was better then, natch.

Like you, I’m pretty sure that the LBS’s round me would reply ‘dunno, I’ll have to get back to you after I’ve spoken to the distributor’ if I asked for 7/8 speed components, but 11/12 speed will be on the shelf (given that anything at all is on their shelves just now!).

My oldest bikes are getting on for 20 years old and wear 10-speed Shimano Ultegra, which is very hard to get bits for now. It works perfectly, but won’t forever. When it doesn’t, I’ll replace it with something more up to date.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 19 January, 2022, 01:11:04 pm
I have to agree, it's tempting to think all the world still rides your favourite 40 year old bike, but in reality bike and component brands sell their current products in every country.

I've never had a spoke break or a wheel buckle even when I've been riding overloaded bikes on rough stuff. I think rims are stronger now and wheels better made than they ever have been.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 19 January, 2022, 01:28:50 pm
Edit 2: Modern bike shops are far more likely to stock modern components. Finding spares for your obselete 7 or 8 speed drive train is going to be harder than finding current stuff...

Not so. You certainly won't be able to find any high quality 8 speed stuff but there is a lot of cheap Altus, etc. 7/8 speed kit in just about every mom & pop bike shop (even toy store in remote areas) because that is what the majority of their bikes are already fitted with. You won't find that expensive 11sp kit in there. In the middle of a tour, slapping on a cheap new chain, derailleur or cassette could save your holiday, compared to sitting around for 2-3 days waiting for something to be shipped to you.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 19 January, 2022, 01:36:25 pm
Judging by what the Asian riders were riding on the last LEL, it's no problem at all finding 11 speed kit, electric gears, power meters, the latest Garmin etc where they live.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 19 January, 2022, 01:51:38 pm
My experience from India would be that you can get modern, high-end stuff and old fashioned, cheap stuff. So nowadays that would 10 or 11 speed, including I'm sure electronic shifting, and poorly made screw-on freewheels. The difference is that to get the former, you have to find the right shop in a big city, whereas the latter you can find in small towns. Finding decent 8 or 9sp parts (say Sora?) would be harder.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 19 January, 2022, 02:39:07 pm
Judging by what the Asian riders were riding on the last LEL, it's no problem at all finding 11 speed kit, electric gears, power meters, the latest Garmin etc where they live.

I think you're being far too flippant, sourcing equipment to get you out of trouble is a very real problem as well you know  ;D  For example, if you're riding home from a pub in Duton Hill after closing time and a crank falls off what would you do?   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: BFC on 19 January, 2022, 02:53:53 pm
Judging by what the Asian riders were riding on the last LEL, it's no problem at all finding 11 speed kit, electric gears, power meters, the latest Garmin etc where they live.

I think you're being far too flippant, sourcing equipment to get you out of trouble is a very real problem as well you know  ;D  For example, if you're riding home from a pub in Duton Hill after closing time and a crank falls off what would you do?   :thumbsup:

Or riding home on a chilly night and the grease in the freehub glues the pawls in freewheel mode.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: psyclist on 19 January, 2022, 03:12:36 pm
Judging by what the Asian riders were riding on the last LEL, it's no problem at all finding 11 speed kit, electric gears, power meters, the latest Garmin etc where they live.

I think you're being far too flippant, sourcing equipment to get you out of trouble is a very real problem as well you know  ;D  For example, if you're riding home from a pub in Duton Hill after closing time and a crank falls off what would you do?   :thumbsup:

Or riding home on a chilly night and the grease in the freehub glues the pawls in freewheel mode.

Or traversing the Devil's Staircase when your gear cable snaps.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: BFC on 19 January, 2022, 03:25:36 pm
Say your wheel gets buckled.

You ain't half pessimistic! I haven't buckled a wheel since some time back in the 20th century. And I've slammed into some pretty deep unseen/unavoidbale potholes whilst fully loaded....

Edit: Of course, someone will be along in a minute to talk about all their buckled wheels :P

Edit 2: Modern bike shops are far more likely to stock modern components. Finding spares for your obselete 7 or 8 speed drive train is going to be harder than finding current stuff...
Most bike shops around this planet will support screw on freewheel technology - there are so many budget bikes (including E-Bikes) still being built with this technology.
Likewise mid range new stuff will be available in better bike shops that deal with them.

The problems occur when trying to source high end latest model components, or superceded models (like campag 8/9 speed). Single speed/fixed bits are rarely supported intentionally by bike shops but are much less prone to failure/damage - it takes a lot to kill a maintained 1/8" chain (and 3/32" works with 6/7 speed chanins).

At least with rim brakes we would wear a set of rims out and have a "reason" to chuck the wheels and "upgrade" to the currently available technology.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 19 January, 2022, 03:28:30 pm
Judging by what the Asian riders were riding on the last LEL, it's no problem at all finding 11 speed kit, electric gears, power meters, the latest Garmin etc where they live.

I think you're being far too flippant, sourcing equipment to get you out of trouble is a very real problem as well you know  ;D  For example, if you're riding home from a pub in Duton Hill after closing time and a crank falls off what would you do?   :thumbsup:

Or riding home on a chilly night and the grease in the freehub glues the pawls in freewheel mode.

Or traversing the Devil's Staircase when your gear cable snaps.

I feel like I'm being trolled!

I put the crank back on, no problem, by the side of the road. My torque wrench was inaccurate, hence the crank bolt loosened.

The freehub, a longish walk. A non serviceable part, expertly repaired by the engineering genius bfc. Probably the most difficult to replace or repair. Shimano 9 speed.

Gear cable, that was only 4 months old! Bloody 11 speed Shimano brifter! Expensive taxi. Of course, I could take a spare or find one in any Country.

It was all fixable and would have been wherever in the world I had been.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Kim on 19 January, 2022, 04:46:41 pm
Given the amount of effort I had to go to to source a freehub body for an XT 9-speed hub recently, that's not something I'd want to find a replacement for in a hurry.  But I suppose it's the sort of thing you could take with you.  Or at least have a known-good one at home that someone could FedEx to Elbonia if necessary.

Gear cables are an easy road-side fix, as long as you don't need to dismantle a shifter with the intricacy of a fine Swiss watch to get the remains of the broken one out.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Carlosfandango on 19 January, 2022, 04:59:40 pm
Given the amount of effort I had to go to to source a freehub body for an XT 9-speed hub recently, that's not something I'd want to find a replacement for in a hurry.  But I suppose it's the sort of thing you could take with you.  Or at least have a known-good one at home that someone could FedEx to Elbonia if necessary.

Gear cables are an easy road-side fix, as long as you don't need to dismantle a shifter with the intricacy of a fine Swiss watch to get the remains of the broken one out.

Yeah, the cable breaks close to the end, it was a pig to get the remains out. I dismantled the shifter, not that difficult, but fiddly and easy to lose parts at the roadside.

The 9 speed freehub I have is unobtainium. BFC swapped it out and then managed to dismantle and clean mine to replace the one he'd given me. Shimano say it's not serviceable though.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Oscar's dad on 19 January, 2022, 05:21:56 pm
Judging by what the Asian riders were riding on the last LEL, it's no problem at all finding 11 speed kit, electric gears, power meters, the latest Garmin etc where they live.

I think you're being far too flippant, sourcing equipment to get you out of trouble is a very real problem as well you know  ;D  For example, if you're riding home from a pub in Duton Hill after closing time and a crank falls off what would you do?   :thumbsup:

Or riding home on a chilly night and the grease in the freehub glues the pawls in freewheel mode.

Or traversing the Devil's Staircase when your gear cable snaps.

I feel like I'm being trolled!


You are being trolled  :thumbsup:  Take it as a compliment  :-*
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 19 January, 2022, 05:34:53 pm

I think the guidance about running 8 speed cos it'll be easier to find when on the road, etc... is probably a bit out dated. 10 speed tiagra, or 11 speed is likely to be easier to find, just cos it's more common now.

But I think this also ignores to an extent the fact that these days you can get a bike part shipped to almost anywhere in the world in a day or 3. If you can bodge enough to get you to a place that can receive post, you can get the parts you need, tho it may not be cheap. Tho if I was going that far off the beaten track, carrying a spare freehub body, and even the axle kit for a hub isn't gonna slow you down that much.

I know when working in a bike shop in the European capital of cycling, that anything other than the current line of what ever shimano are making, can be pretty hard to get. We certainly didn't have a box of 8 speed cassette just waiting for someone with an old bike came in.

I do like the idea upthread about carrying a friction shifter as a backup, has excellent bodge me to a bike shop potential. But cos I'm on Di2, I can just remap the buttons about to get the shifting I need. I also carry a enough spare wire to recable most of the bike in the event of damage. They weigh very little, so are easy to carry.

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bobb on 19 January, 2022, 06:08:55 pm
I would agree with using stuff that is going to be common wherever you're touring, so if I was going to say India or China, I would kit up accordingly..... But most people here tour in Europe (yes, yes, I know some go further afield) and all this talk of little local bike shops in some little town in the sticks, where the wisened owner carries stock of all manner of parts and will rummage around out back to get you just what you need, is a bit optimistic to say the least. Those places are closing down for good at an alarming rate and have been for years.

So I guess carrying spares and having cunning solutions to get by on whatever set up you have is the way to go. If you can get to civilization, you should be good to go. If you're miles from civilization and something breaks, you probably need to question your choice of bike, not to mention your competence in setting it up in the first place (Carl) :P

Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 19 January, 2022, 09:59:21 pm
Will be testing the Trek 520 and the Trek Checkpoint tomorrow … Comfort and fit, I suppose and availability, not a lot out there… Lots of good advice ringing in my head from this thread, especially, “buy a bike that’s designed for touring”! Makes sense!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 20 January, 2022, 08:05:49 am
Bits that have broken when out cycling, in no particular order:
Spokes
seatpost
saddle nosebolt
BB (complete bearing failure, crank was just waving around)
wheel rim
chain (8spd, snapped)
BB shell distorted
derailleur hanger
wheel axle (many  years ago on a cheapish bike)
rear rack
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Karla on 20 January, 2022, 02:12:36 pm
If I were setting up a bike for extended touring, I'd probably plump for either down tube or bar end shifters (that can be operated in friction mode). Easier to get replacement gear bits on the road if something like a cassette or derailleur breaks.

Why would parts be easier to get if you're using down tube or bar end shifters? And what relevance is that to broken cassettes* or mechs?

*Has anyone ever actually "broken" a cassette?!

I have to agree.

I went round the world with bar-ends rather than STIs but it wasn't for reliability, it was so I could run 8 speed gears.  The supply of decent 8 speed stuff is drying up though, so it probably didn't buy me much of an advantage.  If I did it again I'd probably run 10 speed and STIs, and know I could get high quality spares anywhere across Asia.  Loads of intercontinental tourists do this and they don't seem to come to any harm.

The other thing to note about STIs breaking (which they won't, because they don't) is that non-functioning gears are a lot less of a problem than non-functioning brakes, so you don't need to worry about them quite so much.  One could kill you, the other will just mean you have to push up a few hills until you get to the next bike shop.

I said 'break' but that was the wrong phrase. More likely is the chain and cassette wearing out. Having shifters that can be operated in friction mode means you could fit a cassette of a different type; e.g. 8 or 9 speed.

Say your wheel gets buckled. You can get a replacement in a local shop, but it is 10spd shimano and you have 11spd campag shifters. No problem if you can run in friction mode.

For that to apply, the following conditions need to pile up:

1) You have an unfixable error
2) You find a shop
3) The shop doesn't have what you need
4) The shop has something else, that would work
5) The distance to the next shop is intolerably large
6) Time pressure is such that you can't wait a few days for FexEx

We're getting into some very, very improbable scenarios here.  It seems rather analogous to the EDC (https://everydaycarry.com/) folk who 'need' a 76 function Leatherman to walk to the shops **just in case** they need to dig a stone out of a horse's hoof on the way.  How likely is it to happen, what's the consequence of you having the less fixable solution, and what's the cost of the mitigation you want to impose?
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Notfromrugby on 20 January, 2022, 02:38:28 pm
People over-worry about accidental mechanicals... and under-worry about regular maintenance.
With good maintenance, mechanicals are extremely rare and even there, they very rarely leave you unable to cycle.
I once wrecked a chainring, but it was entirely my fault, for using a completely inappropriate (Alfine) chainring in single speed mode and having removed the protective fairing, which gave some structural rigidity to the all assembly.

When I helped at MC1K, I brought along my all workshop... think a cumulative 60,000 km over the hilliest parts of Wales and all I had to do was to fix a puncture...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: perpetual dan on 20 January, 2022, 04:15:20 pm
...

For that to apply, the following conditions need to pile up:

1) You have an unfixable error
2) You find a shop
3) The shop doesn't have what you need
4) The shop has something else, that would work
5) The distance to the next shop is intolerably large
6) Time pressure is such that you can't wait a few days for FexEx

We're getting into some very, very improbable scenarios here.  It seems rather analogous to the EDC (https://everydaycarry.com/) folk who 'need' a 76 function Leatherman to walk to the shops **just in case** they need to dig a stone out of a horse's hoof on the way.  How likely is it to happen, what's the consequence of you having the less fixable solution, and what's the cost of the mitigation you want to impose?

My typical "tour" is a long weekend away, somewhere reasonably well away from crowds. So:
 - If the problem is unfixable, even in the UK "find a shop" could well involve a longish walk and waiting until tomorrow for the shop to be open.
 - 3 seems to be triggered by neither running the latest components, nor budget bike 8 speed. I'm not doing either of those at the moment.
 - Having found one bike shop, I've probably found enough civilization that the next one isn't so hard to get to - and can be phoned to check stock. But if I'm running some outdated or esoteric setup then Evans is no more likely to have stock than Halfords.
 - Time pressure does usually apply to me, so Fed Ex from a specialist would usually translate to "get yourself home" and deliver it there.

Friction friendly bar end shifters, cable operated brakes, and a small tupperware of spare parts do, I think, help make the bike adaptable to roadside fixes and some level of "what's in stock" fixing. A small box (and budget) for spares (plus inner tubes) keep me honest about the likelihood, consequences and my ability to apply a fix at the roadside.


Anyway, I hope Wallace found something that suits today :)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: hatler on 20 January, 2022, 04:32:55 pm
Bits that have broken when out cycling, in no particular order:
Spokes
seatpost
saddle nosebolt
BB (complete bearing failure, crank was just waving around)
wheel rim
chain (8spd, snapped)
BB shell distorted
derailleur hanger
wheel axle (many  years ago on a cheapish bike)
rear rack
Oooo. Interesting thinking.
In no particular order : -
Bust spokes
Missing end to my mini-pump (probably my only walk-somewhere event)
Brake cable
Gear cable
SPD pedal fitting snapped (but only on one side of the pedal)
Rack weld split (cable tied)

That's it.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: JonBuoy on 20 January, 2022, 05:00:50 pm
When I helped at MC1K, I brought along my all workshop... think a cumulative 60,000 km over the hilliest parts of Wales and all I had to do was to fix a puncture...

I did spend ages on the side of yet another Pembrokeshire hill extracting the nub end of a gear cable out of my rear shifter after I decided that I needed to be able to use all thirty gears not just three of them.

There were also a few mechanicals at the last control.  My mate complained bitterly to me that Deano had sorted out his brakes for him so he felt obliged to continue  ;)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 20 January, 2022, 05:48:26 pm
...

For that to apply, the following conditions need to pile up:

1) You have an unfixable error
2) You find a shop
3) The shop doesn't have what you need
4) The shop has something else, that would work
5) The distance to the next shop is intolerably large
6) Time pressure is such that you can't wait a few days for FexEx

We're getting into some very, very improbable scenarios here.  It seems rather analogous to the EDC (https://everydaycarry.com/) folk who 'need' a 76 function Leatherman to walk to the shops **just in case** they need to dig a stone out of a horse's hoof on the way.  How likely is it to happen, what's the consequence of you having the less fixable solution, and what's the cost of the mitigation you want to impose?

My typical "tour" is a long weekend away, somewhere reasonably well away from crowds. So:
 - If the problem is unfixable, even in the UK "find a shop" could well involve a longish walk and waiting until tomorrow for the shop to be open.
 - 3 seems to be triggered by neither running the latest components, nor budget bike 8 speed. I'm not doing either of those at the moment.
 - Having found one bike shop, I've probably found enough civilization that the next one isn't so hard to get to - and can be phoned to check stock. But if I'm running some outdated or esoteric setup then Evans is no more likely to have stock than Halfords.
 - Time pressure does usually apply to me, so Fed Ex from a specialist would usually translate to "get yourself home" and deliver it there.

Friction friendly bar end shifters, cable operated brakes, and a small tupperware of spare parts do, I think, help make the bike adaptable to roadside fixes and some level of "what's in stock" fixing. A small box (and budget) for spares (plus inner tubes) keep me honest about the likelihood, consequences and my ability to apply a fix at the roadside.


Anyway, I hope Wallace found something that suits today :)

You're unlucky if you've gone for a long weekend away on a well maintained bike and you have a total show stopper. Either that or you're experimenting with lithobraking...

In the last 30000km I've had one broken spoke, and that was as a result of the bike falling over. The rear mech got knocked, so the chain shifted into -1 gear, and the chain damaged a spoke. It broke some 1000+km later. I carry a couple of spare spokes, tho no spoke key. More so a shop can fix my bike for me, rather then me bodge a fix in deep dark Zeeland. That's it, that's the only mechanical I've had. When I ran cable operated disk brakes, I did rebuild the back brake at the side of the road in Noord Brabant, but that was because it was starting to not be as effective as I hoped, after doing 1500km in 6 days. I didn't need to do it, but I had the tools and parts, so gave it a go. These days I run hydraulic disk brakes, and di2 shifters. I carry a spare brake hose. I could replace the oil with baby oil if something went really bad. As mentioned I have wires for Di2 rewiring.

Before a big trip I do replace the chain, cassette, discs, bottom bracket, pads, jockey wheels, and chainrings. Before the next big one I'll probably also do the headset bearings.

What things do you expect to fail?

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Kim on 20 January, 2022, 05:50:25 pm
What things do you expect to fail?

Overwhelmingly, the rider.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 20 January, 2022, 05:52:29 pm
Overwhelmingly, the rider.

Oh yeah, the meat sack between handlebars and pedals is incredibly failure prone. And even if you do find a bike shop, most just give you weird looks and can't offer any meaningful repairs... Not sure why...

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: perpetual dan on 20 January, 2022, 06:33:20 pm
What things do you expect to fail?

Overwhelmingly, the rider.
Well, yes, there’s that.
The only problem I couldn’t fix easily on the bike (funny shaped wheel) was accompanied by enough bleeding to put me off riding much further.

I’ve had spokes and a GPS die on a tour.
Chain, shift lever and axle spring to mind as failing on a local ride without prior notice. I have spare links so could fix the chain.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TimC on 20 January, 2022, 07:12:18 pm
I've managed to shatter a chain with my explosive extreeem POWAH going up Church Hill in Kersey (not a tour, just coming back from the pub IIRC). I've had two punctures in the last three years. That's it, as far back as I can remember. I do like fettling my bikes, so they tend to be in very good order, and I don't do astronomical miles - maybe 2-3000 a year on average.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Karla on 20 January, 2022, 09:51:21 pm
As QG says, if your tour is a weekend, your maintenance requirements are essentially identical to those of a day ride.  If you're having problems over that distance, DT shifters won't help you!  If you want to run them because they give you a nice Luddite feeling, go ahead but don't try to make out it's anything other than that.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 21 January, 2022, 10:20:07 am
Setting the maintenance argument aside for now (there being two camps here and no need for flying bread rolls at dawn), I've been considerably peed off with trying to get lower gears on my bike.

The restrictions on shifter/derailleur/chainset/cassette compatibility has made this an expensive and difficult (requiring lots of research) task.

If I didn't really love the shape and comfort of the STI hoods, I would have ditched them and gone to some sort of friction shifters (and square taper BB). Then fitting whatever combination I liked would just be down to the rear derailleur capacity.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 21 January, 2022, 10:24:13 am
You've obviously already got the STI hoods. Could you keep them for their comfortable shape but only connect the brake cables, then use DT shifters (or bar ends, whichever you prefer) for friction shifting?
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 21 January, 2022, 10:24:46 am
Setting the maintenance argument aside for now (there being two camps here and no need for flying bread rolls at dawn), I've been considerably peed off with trying to get lower gears on my bike.

The restrictions on shifter/derailleur/chainset/cassette compatibility has made this an expensive and difficult (requiring lots of research) task.

If I didn't really love the shape and comfort of the STI hoods, I would have ditched them and gone to some sort of friction shifters (and square taper BB). Then fitting whatever combination I liked would just be down to the rear derailleur capacity.

Not wanting to sound like a stuck record, but... My Di2 bike has a lowest gear of 28 front 40 back. And works with both the TT shifters, and the GRX STI style shifters...

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TimC on 21 January, 2022, 10:51:02 am
Setting the maintenance argument aside for now (there being two camps here and no need for flying bread rolls at dawn), I've been considerably peed off with trying to get lower gears on my bike.

The restrictions on shifter/derailleur/chainset/cassette compatibility has made this an expensive and difficult (requiring lots of research) task.

If I didn't really love the shape and comfort of the STI hoods, I would have ditched them and gone to some sort of friction shifters (and square taper BB). Then fitting whatever combination I liked would just be down to the rear derailleur capacity.

Not wanting to sound like a stuck record, but... My Di2 bike has a lowest gear of 28 front 40 back. And works with both the TT shifters, and the GRX STI style shifters...

J

Yep, I have Ultegra Di2 (8000) running a conventional 50/34 compact chainset with an 11-42 on the back. The only adaptation was a 15mm hanger extension. All works perfectly, with the caveat that the Di2 is programmed not to use the largest three cogs at the back while on the big ring.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 21 January, 2022, 10:58:37 am
Setting the maintenance argument aside for now (there being two camps here and no need for flying bread rolls at dawn), I've been considerably peed off with trying to get lower gears on my bike.

The restrictions on shifter/derailleur/chainset/cassette compatibility has made this an expensive and difficult (requiring lots of research) task.

If I didn't really love the shape and comfort of the STI hoods, I would have ditched them and gone to some sort of friction shifters (and square taper BB). Then fitting whatever combination I liked would just be down to the rear derailleur capacity.

Not wanting to sound like a stuck record, but... My Di2 bike has a lowest gear of 28 front 40 back. And works with both the TT shifters, and the GRX STI style shifters...

J
That does sound great.

Just damn stupid that we need mega expensive kit to provide functionality that was available in the 80s.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 21 January, 2022, 11:09:43 am
Though I don't think 11-42 cassettes were available in the 80s...
But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 21 January, 2022, 11:17:57 am
You could get a Suntour Alpine AG 5sp 14-38t freewheel from 1981. It was a low to mid-range freewheel that cost the same as other Japanese freewheels. Not high end at all.
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/suntour_ag_tech_derailleur_5000.html
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Paul H on 21 January, 2022, 11:23:10 am
But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.
We're wandering well off topic, but that is only the case with UK/US preference for drop bar tourers, which has always been too small a market for the big players to bother with, though this may be changing.  The larger market for flat bar tourers, trekking bikes if you prefer, has always been well catered for, either borrowing from the MTB world, or with dedicated groupsets.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Lightning Phil on 21 January, 2022, 11:36:02 am
But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.

or friction shifting in which case anything works with anything pretty much.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 21 January, 2022, 11:39:41 am
But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.
We're wandering well off topic, but that is only the case with UK/US preference for drop bar tourers, which has always been too small a market for the big players to bother with, though this may be changing.  The larger market for flat bar tourers, trekking bikes if you prefer, has always been well catered for, either borrowing from the MTB world, or with dedicated groupsets.

That said, with the rebranding of drop bar touring as bikepacking, there is a growing market demand for low geared drop bar bikes that can go anywhere. Tho they have kinda screwed up the GRX range a little, in that the 46/30 chainset is only available in the lower two price points, and the cassettes don't go very big... officially...

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TPMB12 on 21 January, 2022, 12:13:32 pm
Edit 2: Modern bike shops are far more likely to stock modern components. Finding spares for your obselete 7 or 8 speed drive train is going to be harder than finding current stuff...

Not so. You certainly won't be able to find any high quality 8 speed stuff but there is a lot of cheap Altus, etc. 7/8 speed kit in just about every mom & pop bike shop (even toy store in remote areas) because that is what the majority of their bikes are already fitted with. You won't find that expensive 11sp kit in there. In the middle of a tour, slapping on a cheap new chain, derailleur or cassette could save your holiday, compared to sitting around for 2-3 days waiting for something to be shipped to you.
My local bike mechanic told me that it's the 7 and 8 speeds that are hardest to get hold of right now. He says that the production is focusing on delivering newer groups etc and indeed higher spec stuff. 10 speed is fairly rare but 11 speed is easier to get hold of. He's in the business for 20 plus years around the country so has a lot of trade contacts. They tell him that and fortunately for me found a good quality Chinese supply cassette for my 9 speed triple recumbent. He said if I didn't take that it could take a long time to get parts, no idea how long.

No idea who has the most up to date picture,  bike mech guy or people on here claiming 7 and 8 speed will be easier to get if needed
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 21 January, 2022, 12:16:04 pm
But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.
We're wandering well off topic, but that is only the case with UK/US preference for drop bar tourers, which has always been too small a market for the big players to bother with, though this may be changing.  The larger market for flat bar tourers, trekking bikes if you prefer, has always been well catered for, either borrowing from the MTB world, or with dedicated groupsets.
But still has problems of incompatibility between this-speed shifters and that-speed mechs. Not to mention, of course, between manufacturers, which obviously applies just as much to electronic shifting.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 21 January, 2022, 12:18:26 pm
My local bike mechanic told me that it's the 7 and 8 speeds that are hardest to get hold of right now. He says that the production is focusing on delivering newer groups etc and indeed higher spec stuff. 10 speed is fairly rare but 11 speed is easier to get hold of. He's in the business for 20 plus years around the country so has a lot of trade contacts. They tell him that and fortunately for me found a good quality Chinese supply cassette for my 9 speed triple recumbent. He said if I didn't take that it could take a long time to get parts, no idea how long.

No idea who has the most up to date picture,  bike mech guy or people on here claiming 7 and 8 speed will be easier to get if needed

This matches my experience working in a bike shop in .NL. Yes supply chains are pretty fucked up right now, but finding 7 or 8 speed parts has been getting harder and harder.

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 21 January, 2022, 01:20:17 pm
Of course the current supply chain issues will continue for evermore. Should I place a rolling eyes smiley here?
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 21 January, 2022, 01:25:37 pm
Of course the current supply chain issues will continue for evermore. Should I place a rolling eyes smiley here?

I don't know, what is the supply chain like for rolling eye smileys?

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: BrianI on 21 January, 2022, 05:15:32 pm
Well, I'm loving my old 2008 Dawes Horizon Touring bike, now I got it switched over to flat bars, normal v-brakes, trigger shifters, and bar ends!  :thumbsup:

Was a bit of a cost involved in the conversion, and took a while to get the various components especially 9 speed flat bar trigger shifters.  I had ran it for a while using dura-ace bar end shifters converted to thumb shifters using conversion brackets, but I found them not particularly ergonomically comfortable. But I'm very pleased with the bike now. Nice and comfy position. :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: bhoot on 21 January, 2022, 05:21:31 pm
You've obviously already got the STI hoods. Could you keep them for their comfortable shape but only connect the brake cables, then use DT shifters (or bar ends, whichever you prefer) for friction shifting?
We did just that on the tandem - have bar end shifters but the Ergos are still doing service as brake levers.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Paul H on 21 January, 2022, 05:47:19 pm
The larger market for flat bar tourers, trekking bikes if you prefer, has always been well catered for, either borrowing from the MTB world, or with dedicated groupsets.
But still has problems of incompatibility between this-speed shifters and that-speed mechs.
Not really, there will always be some who need to get creative and mix and match to get exactly what they want, but that doesn't contradict what I said about the flat bar touring/Trekking market being well catered for.  The chances of most tourers finding what they want straight off the shelf are greater if they're using flat bars.
I wasn't making a recommendation, just pointing out there's a reason it can be hard to find the right kit, I mentioned it might be changing and quixoticgeek expanded on that, it's all good unless it offends your tribalism. Still I think it's a shame touring/trekking/bikepacking are being presented and developed as completely different things when the similarities ought to be obvious.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 21 January, 2022, 06:29:02 pm
I think those are two separate points, rather than a contradiction.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Kim on 21 January, 2022, 09:15:28 pm
Still I think it's a shame touring/trekking/bikepacking are being presented and developed as completely different things when the similarities ought to be obvious.

Yeabut if you pretend it's a completely new thing you can sell people exciting new toys.  Even if the older / unfashionably German ways are better.


In terms of transmissions suitable for touring, the recumbent manufacturers usually have this worked out one way or another.  Of course, it helps that only weirdos use drop bar controls on a recumbent...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: perpetual dan on 22 January, 2022, 10:56:54 am
But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.
We're wandering well off topic, but that is only the case with UK/US preference for drop bar tourers, which has always been too small a market for the big players to bother with, though this may be changing.  The larger market for flat bar tourers, trekking bikes if you prefer, has always been well catered for, either borrowing from the MTB world, or with dedicated groupsets.
That’s the other (main, even) reason I’ve got bar end shifters. I can run a mountain bike 26/38 x 11-34 and matching derailleurs, bb, hubs etc and all those bits are working together as intended. Other brake levers do me as well as STIs.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 22 January, 2022, 11:03:37 am
That’s the other (main, even) reason I’ve got bar end shifters. I can run a mountain bike 26/38 x 11-34 and matching derailleurs, bb, hubs etc and all those bits are working together as intended. Other brake levers do me as well as STIs.

I have that, but with Di2. Which has the added advantage of many ways to shift. And Hydraulic brakes...

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: perpetual dan on 23 January, 2022, 06:07:17 pm
That’s the other (main, even) reason I’ve got bar end shifters. I can run a mountain bike 26/38 x 11-34 and matching derailleurs, bb, hubs etc and all those bits are working together as intended. Other brake levers do me as well as STIs.

I have that, but with Di2. Which has the added advantage of many ways to shift. And Hydraulic brakes...

J
I’ve nothing against Di2, other than it’s effect on my bank balance.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: mzjo on 23 January, 2022, 10:04:55 pm

I think the guidance about running 8 speed cos it'll be easier to find when on the road, etc... is probably a bit out dated. 10 speed tiagra, or 11 speed is likely to be easier to find, just cos it's more common now.

But I think this also ignores to an extent the fact that these days you can get a bike part shipped to almost anywhere in the world in a day or 3. If you can bodge enough to get you to a place that can receive post, you can get the parts you need, tho it may not be cheap. Tho if I was going that far off the beaten track, carrying a spare freehub body, and even the axle kit for a hub isn't gonna slow you down that much.

I know when working in a bike shop in the European capital of cycling, that anything other than the current line of what ever shimano are making, can be pretty hard to get. We certainly didn't have a box of 8 speed cassette just waiting for someone with an old bike came in.

I do like the idea upthread about carrying a friction shifter as a backup, has excellent bodge me to a bike shop potential. But cos I'm on Di2, I can just remap the buttons about to get the shifting I need. I also carry a enough spare wire to recable most of the bike in the event of damage. They weigh very little, so are easy to carry.

J

Maybe it's not a bikeshop (but they do sell something like 90% of new bikes in France - or did until the virus panic when their supplies dried up just like everyone else's) but in most, if not all, you should find chains, screw-on freewheels 6 and 7sp, cassettes 7,8 and usually 9sp, some gear controls and mechs, all for low end stuff it's true. Where? Decathlon, "A fond la forme". Chains I can also find in my local hyper, along with rather horrible gear cables and lighting sets for emergency use when all else fails. I don't know what my LBS carries, he's pretty good but stuff is so varied these days he seems to order most of it. I don't suppose he carries spares for Di2, that would be an order job. At the other end of the scale, if you ride a 40yr old bicyclette we do have someone with a shop repairing that sort of thing but only by recycling 40yr old bits, which is not a good arguement for using that sort of thing as a bulletproof touring option.
Of course getting the bits is one thing, having access to a workshop with the tools to fit them can be something else. At least with a screw-on freewheel the tool is relatively small and light and any passing garage will usually loan you the use of a vice. A cassette needs a chainwhip (or other tool which I don't know but probably evey one else does) as well as the remover (although the vice will handle blocking the tool).

Given the difficulty I have with a GPS or even a smartphone, I can't think of anything more likely to stop me dead in my touring tracks than reprogramming the buttons on an electronic shifting system. I would be more likely to shorten the chain and run a single cog - which is more easily done with an outdated 7 or 8sp  chain and sprockets!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 23 January, 2022, 10:17:39 pm
Maybe it's not a bikeshop (but they do sell something like 90% of new bikes in France - or did until the virus panic when their supplies dried up just like everyone else's) but in most, if not all, you should find chains, screw-on freewheels 6 and 7sp, cassettes 7,8 and usually 9sp, some gear controls and mechs, all for low end stuff it's true. Where? Decathlon, "A fond la forme". Chains I can also find in my local hyper, along with rather horrible gear cables and lighting sets for emergency use when all else fails. I don't know what my LBS carries, he's pretty good but stuff is so varied these days he seems to order most of it. I don't suppose he carries spares for Di2, that would be an order job. At the other end of the scale, if you ride a 40yr old bicyclette we do have someone with a shop repairing that sort of thing but only by recycling 40yr old bits, which is not a good arguement for using that sort of thing as a bulletproof touring option.
Of course getting the bits is one thing, having access to a workshop with the tools to fit them can be something else. At least with a screw-on freewheel the tool is relatively small and light and any passing garage will usually loan you the use of a vice. A cassette needs a chainwhip (or other tool which I don't know but probably evey one else does) as well as the remover (although the vice will handle blocking the tool).

Except, there aren't an abundance of decathlon's out there, not if you're out touring in the more scenic parts of the UK, or world. So for most you'd be relying on them to ship stuff to you.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/store-locator

Yes a Cassette needs a tool, but it's also the same tool as disk brake rotor lock rings, so I carry one, it's a very light weight version made by Wolf Tooth Components. I don't carry a chain whip, but I'm sure I could improvise something if I really needed to... You can get cassette tools that are designed to work in the drop outs. Spares for Di2, are going to be either cables (which I carry), jockey wheels (which could be any 11 speed jockey wheels), or derailure, and if that dies, I got bigger issues.

Quote
Given the difficulty I have with a GPS or even a smartphone, I can't think of anything more likely to stop me dead in my touring tracks than reprogramming the buttons on an electronic shifting system. I would be more likely to shorten the chain and run a single cog - which is more easily done with an outdated 7 or 8sp  chain and sprockets!

You would be really surprised how easy it is with the smartphone app, If of course you are in any way tech literate enough to use a smart phone. Perhaps it's a generational thing. Either way, it's easier than fettling cables.

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Karla on 23 January, 2022, 11:07:58 pm
I've had experience replacing 8 speed components across nearly all parts of Europe, North America and Asia.  As of 2018-19, they were harder to get hold of in most places than 9, 10 or even 11 speed, and certainly weren't easier to get hold of anywhere at all.  I don't know about Africa or South America but anyone who says otherwise about the continents I mentioned is with the birds.  On my trip, I ended up replacing 8 speed stuff pre-emptively, and usually by UPS from the UK whenever I could stay with friends rather than when my kit wore out, so I didn't end up gaining anything. 

The argument that freewheels are more easily maintainable than freehubs is even odder.  Freehub axles are far stronger and less likely to get bent due to the bearings being further outboard, which is an important consideration for a loaded tourer!  You can change a cassette in the field without a vice, which is also a plus point for freehubs.  The spline tool is the same for either technology, the chain whip is easily improvised (you'll find one of these (https://www.toolstation.com/chain-wrench/p56261?store=RL&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&mkwid=_dc&pcrid=560396161865&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=CjwKCAiAlrSPBhBaEiwAuLSDUExY0WPrZR7Leedm8M0aUDaP8eMGLgSX3IRtJb7CExrZwqh2EtkzfBoClcIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) in every motor garage) and all you then need is a spanner! As QG points out, the spline tool will also change your disc brakes, and is a small thing to carry if you're on a tour long enough to require changing cassettes.

Plus of course, if you get the right rear hub, the freehub is pull-out, which is very useful if one of your bearings does suddenly shatter in the middle of the road in India - see below. 



(https://lostbyway.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/P3102819.jpg)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: cycleman on 24 January, 2022, 08:07:10 am
Just pick the right gear and ride single speed fixed or free 😉.  With todays lightweight camping kit this should be quite possible. Okay  walking up some inclines would be nessercery but brake cables/pads and tyres/tubes are the spares you need. People have wridden around the world on single speed cycles  :demon: :)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: TimC on 24 January, 2022, 03:37:46 pm
Why not take all the angst of bicycle maintenance out of the equation and just walk?
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 24 January, 2022, 04:03:53 pm
Walking introduces the angst of shoe repair and replacement. Far more trouble-free to swim.  ;)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 24 January, 2022, 06:08:11 pm
Walking introduces the angst of shoe repair and replacement. Far more trouble-free to swim.  ;)

Swimming brings potential for hypothermia and drowning.

Better to stay at home.

J
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: perpetual dan on 24 January, 2022, 06:28:03 pm
Why not take all the angst of bicycle maintenance out of the equation and just walk?
Maybe I could train eagles to carry me, in a lord of the rings style? Though I suspect the average hostel might not welcome them in the kitchen.

While we’re obsessing over what might break, how do hub gears compare to derailleurs for reliability? (Probably not great for in the wild spares though, I know.)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: cycleman on 24 January, 2022, 06:29:29 pm
At least you don't need to walk down hill with a cycle  :)
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Pickled Onion on 24 January, 2022, 08:11:12 pm
While we’re obsessing over what might break, how do hub gears compare to derailleurs for reliability? (Probably not great for in the wild spares though, I know.)

Very unlikely to break. Several orders of magnitude less likely to get spares for Sturmey Archer hubs outside of UK/NL*. I speak from experience.



*Possibly India too.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: JennyB on 24 January, 2022, 08:26:43 pm
Walking introduces the angst of shoe repair and replacement. Far more trouble-free to swim.  ;)

Swimming brings potential for hypothermia and drowning.

Better to stay at home.

J


This thread is starting to remind me of that Dorothy Parker poem about suicide:



Razors pain you;
Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you;
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren’t lawful;
Nooses give;
Gas smells awful;
You might as well live.

Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: perpetual dan on 24 January, 2022, 09:48:53 pm
:D
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: mzjo on 24 January, 2022, 10:03:01 pm
I've had experience replacing 8 speed components across nearly all parts of Europe, North America and Asia.  As of 2018-19, they were harder to get hold of in most places than 9, 10 or even 11 speed, and certainly weren't easier to get hold of anywhere at all.  I don't know about Africa or South America but anyone who says otherwise about the continents I mentioned is with the birds.  On my trip, I ended up replacing 8 speed stuff pre-emptively, and usually by UPS from the UK whenever I could stay with friends rather than when my kit wore out, so I didn't end up gaining anything. 

The argument that freewheels are more easily maintainable than freehubs is even odder.  Freehub axles are far stronger and less likely to get bent due to the bearings being further outboard, which is an important consideration for a loaded tourer!  You can change a cassette in the field without a vice, which is also a plus point for freehubs.  The spline tool is the same for either technology, the chain whip is easily improvised (you'll find one of these (https://www.toolstation.com/chain-wrench/p56261?store=RL&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&mkwid=_dc&pcrid=560396161865&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=CjwKCAiAlrSPBhBaEiwAuLSDUExY0WPrZR7Leedm8M0aUDaP8eMGLgSX3IRtJb7CExrZwqh2EtkzfBoClcIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) in every motor garage) and all you then need is a spanner! As QG points out, the spline tool will also change your disc brakes, and is a small thing to carry if you're on a tour long enough to require changing cassettes.

Plus of course, if you get the right rear hub, the freehub is pull-out, which is very useful if one of your bearings does suddenly shatter in the middle of the road in India - see below. 



(https://lostbyway.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/P3102819.jpg)

That hub is cool  8) 8)
The idea of a hub/freewheel system that could be taken off or apart without tools was around for the 1937 Concours des Machines and I could never understand why the idea didn't catch on. In those days it was more usually for replacing spokes (which, at least for me, is also a good arguement for cassettes over freewheels)

I have never argued that a freewheel is easier to repair on the road than a freehub. Freewheel breaks scrap the bugger is how I tend to see things these days, although I did regularly rebuild them in my teens. I have never taken a freehub apart, never had to. I can't remember the last time either broke on me (well a freehub in 2009, might have been bearings - it was a cheap make and I scrapped the hub with no further investigation, no bits so no point in wasting time). A spare freehub would of course be very little trouble to carry.

If you have a means of bypassing the indexing (carrying a spare friction thumb shifter would be one option for bike without dt bosses) you can of course fit the first cassette that comes to hand if your freehub is 8-10 compatible, if you needed that sort of option. Not sure how you would do that with electronic shifting but there's probably a fix.

Many decades ago there was an article about a trio of british tourists riding in Colombia. Their emergency gear was a single speed 3/32" freewheel; they all had double-sided hubs and if one freewheel broke the s/s freewheel would be screwed onto the opposite side of the hub. Wheel reversed and triple chainset meant they could ride to the next bikeshop, the broken down bike having three gears. Once fixed, s/s freewheel removed for the next time!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 08 February, 2022, 03:50:58 pm
Well... I finally pulled the trigger on a touring bike...

After much deliberation, I came across the SPA Cycles website, based on previous advice in this thread...

I then started looking around to see who had toured on a Spa Touring Cycle, and came across this young man's website/blog:https://www.bikeramble.com/blog/ another intrepid Scot!

Appears he has ridden his bike all over, including the Pamir Highway, all on a Spa Touring model.

When I though about it, a bit more, I have never had a wheel fall off, because I did not have a thru-skewer, (wish they could sort oot their spelling on these cycle sites)... Similarly, my bikes have always stopped, without the need for heavy disk brakes... I have used 32mm tyres and 36h spoked wheels to traverse all sorts of gnarly and muddy terrain... I believe 37mm can fit on the spa touring also...

With this in mind, and at £395.00 for a Spa Touring frame, where I could swap over all the XT parts from my alloy hybrid mountain bike, it seems the sensible option, saving over £1000.00 in the process.

The trigger was pulled and yesterday, a shiny gloss black Spa Touring frame arrived, steel fork also...

I will build this as a flat bar, and stick some Jones bars on it for the tour, wherever that may be this year...

I will post a piccy of the build, if I can work out how to do it...

Cheers ALL  :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 08 February, 2022, 03:53:43 pm
That seems a good price in comparison to what they're charging now for Surly frames and similar. Looking forward to the photos.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 08 February, 2022, 04:02:29 pm
That seems a good price in comparison to what they're charging now for Surly frames and similar. Looking forward to the photos.

I thought so too... 725 steel frame, it felt fairly light in the hand also, I think it would make a super audax frame...

I will use it as my go-to-everything bike, hope the build goes according to plan...
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: hatler on 08 February, 2022, 04:30:56 pm
Brilliant !!   This all sounds like a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 08 February, 2022, 07:40:39 pm
Brilliant !!   This all sounds like a lot of fun.
[/

Thanks, it has been an interesting journey, let’s hope the parts sync!!  ???
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 21 February, 2022, 10:50:22 am
For those asking, here is a link to the bike and  build I finally went for… Will source new racks and touring bars, will see what’s out there…

The bike is amazing, the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden, fast too…

Cheers all: https://wallacesplace.tumblr.com/post/676792830173298688/the-project
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 21 February, 2022, 11:26:31 am
Well that's good.  :thumbsup:

Sh3d pr0n alert too!
Title: Re: Touring Bikes?
Post by: Wallace on 21 February, 2022, 06:18:24 pm
Well that's good.  :thumbsup:

Sh3d pr0n alert too!

Yes, it was a gamble, but I am very happy with the end result, I cannot emphasise enough how comfortable this bike is, it came together quite well… Apologies about the woodshed, it has seen better days…