Author Topic: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?  (Read 42461 times)

felstedrider

I want to change to Octopus from Shell.  How/when can I do this without it costing teh erth?  When they say that you get moved to a cap rate, if we move now will the octopus bill be the same as the one I am on now come the next price increase?

Financial first.   Are you on a variable rate with Octopus ?   If so it will be more expensive to move to Shell as Octopus are pricing their SVR below the cap - only a bit but every little helps.   When the cap goes up in Oct both companies should be pricing the same but if Octopus continue with their current policy they will remain a bit cheaper.   If you are about to roll off a fixed rate with Octopus it will be cheaper to stay than to move.

Other reasons.  Shell are a dirty oil company with questionable ethics.   Octopus are a vertically integrated renewable supplier.

I /think/ the slightly below cap prices that octopus charge are only for those that were customers before a certain cut off date. So, new customers pay the capped rate as far as I remember.
So - swapping from Shell to Octopus will be cost neutral.

Most Octopus customers have a referral code that will give both sides a bit of a bung (£50 to you, £50 to the referrer. To use mine go to https://share.octopus.energy/wise-zebra-118
Other YACFers will also have codes if you ask.
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Mrs Pingu

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Felstedrider I think he wants to go TO Octopus,  not the other way.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

felstedrider

Felstedrider I think he wants to go TO Octopus,  not the other way.

Apologies.  As I tell my teenager, always read the question fully.  As you were.

Aye, RTFullQ.  As I said Octopus have quoted £700 more than Shell (I was with a smaller Green tariff company who went best).  If swapping in September means that we will be on the same price whether with Shell or Octopus, then that's a goer - but if we save with Shell we can spend that on insulating the house and switch at a later date.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

With shell upping their monthly dd octopus is cost neutral or a saving, and 12 months fixed.  It’s coop energy by octopus, couldn’t sign up online to octopus as they insisted I ring them.
While I was at it I put our name down for ripple energy.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #506 on: 19 December, 2022, 09:58:05 pm »
Ovo sent me details of January price increases today. Electricity is going up a few pence per KWh but Gas is staying the same which surprised me. However, the off peak electricity rate is going up by 25%. How does this square with paying people not to use elecricity at peak times? Confused.
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Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #507 on: 20 December, 2022, 07:44:21 am »
The rise in off-peak use perhaps?  Could also be linked to reduced capacity from elsewhere through the interconnects due to local demand at their end but I suspect a smidge of price gouging.

They can justify their greed so easy.  We're just the paying schmucks.

felstedrider

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #508 on: 20 December, 2022, 08:09:42 am »
The rise in off-peak use perhaps?  Could also be linked to reduced capacity from elsewhere through the interconnects due to local demand at their end but I suspect a smidge of price gouging.

They can justify their greed so easy.  We're just the paying schmucks.

Price capped tariffs rise from 1st Jan, but this means little as the Govt rebate then kicks in to keep spend at a notional £2,500.

Wholesale electricity prices are overall higher than they have been but it has traded down a lot.   Q1 was £300 yesterday but this was £900 at one point.   The other foible, though, is that the shape of prices has flattened.   With the drop off in availability and interconnectors flowing out rather than in we have to run gas plant overnight to cover demand, increasing overnight power prices.   This makes demand side response way less valuable except on really windy days.

Let's be clear though, again, energy suppliers don't make money.   The allowed gross margin in the price cap methodology is 1.5%.   No industry survives on a gross margin that small.   There's no gouging going on in the supply sector.

Gas producers are still making out like bandits although not as high as last year.   Any renewable generators that hadn't entered into long term contracts will have had a windfall gain, but this will be taken away from 1st Jan where the Govt have introduced a levy to capture excess profits*.



* From this point a generator not fuelled by gas will have to pay 45% tax on any revenue over £75/MWh.   The wholesale market is circa £300.   So a wind farm fixing prices at £300 will get about £200 net, still good, but it's not a platform conducive to continued investment.   I would have less of a problem with this if the revenue were used to pay for the subsidies on energy costs, but the 'cap' is in place until 2028 but consumer subsidies only look like continuing into next Summer.   Where's the money going ?

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #509 on: 20 December, 2022, 09:29:01 am »
The rise in off-peak use perhaps?  Could also be linked to reduced capacity from elsewhere through the interconnects due to local demand at their end but I suspect a smidge of price gouging.

They can justify their greed so easy.  We're just the paying schmucks.

Price capped tariffs rise from 1st Jan, but this means little as the Govt rebate then kicks in to keep spend at a notional £2,500.

Wholesale electricity prices are overall higher than they have been but it has traded down a lot.   Q1 was £300 yesterday but this was £900 at one point.   The other foible, though, is that the shape of prices has flattened.   With the drop off in availability and interconnectors flowing out rather than in we have to run gas plant overnight to cover demand, increasing overnight power prices.   This makes demand side response way less valuable except on really windy days.

Let's be clear though, again, energy suppliers don't make money.   The allowed gross margin in the price cap methodology is 1.5%.   No industry survives on a gross margin that small.   There's no gouging going on in the supply sector.

Gas producers are still making out like bandits although not as high as last year.   Any renewable generators that hadn't entered into long term contracts will have had a windfall gain, but this will be taken away from 1st Jan where the Govt have introduced a levy to capture excess profits*.



* From this point a generator not fuelled by gas will have to pay 45% tax on any revenue over £75/MWh.   The wholesale market is circa £300.   So a wind farm fixing prices at £300 will get about £200 net, still good, but it's not a platform conducive to continued investment.   I would have less of a problem with this if the revenue were used to pay for the subsidies on energy costs, but the 'cap' is in place until 2028 but consumer subsidies only look like continuing into next Summer.   Where's the money going ?

So, what you are saying is, that the 'subsidized with horrible green taxes' renewable industry will start paying very high tax rates, and effectively subsidize other activities in the country?
<i>Marmite slave</i>

felstedrider

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #510 on: 20 December, 2022, 09:44:16 am »

So, what you are saying is, that the 'subsidized with horrible green taxes' renewable industry will start paying very high tax rates, and effectively subsidize other activities in the country?


Sites that were financed using the RO scheme yes.   They will receive income from the power generated as well as the credits they receive (funded by the consumer).   Any site that hadn't fixed it's power price will have had a windfall as power prices have risen with gas.   Their income will be way higher than that assumed when the sites were constructed so this is being taken away.   Overall they will be fine.

New sites are, in general, unsubsidised so revenue is entirely correlated to the wholesale power price.   I think setting the 'cap' at £75 is a bit aggressive.  New build solar, as an example, needs close to £100 to make it work so this will prevent growth and investment but leave us short on our Net Zero target.   The EU have set their cap at EUR180.

felstedrider

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #511 on: 29 December, 2022, 08:58:20 am »
I bit of news not really making it into the MSM is that, after very high pricing in the cold snap, wholesale prices have been collapsing.  There is still a long way to go to get to historic levels but the analysts seem more comfortable with the supply and demand situation.

Q1 was trading at 7p/kWh and is now 2p/kWh.   This doesn't effect consumer prices as the cap for Q1 is already set.   Summer 23 prices have dropped by a third in the last 10 days.   There's a chance here for an incoming challenger supplier to push a cheap(er) tariff and see if they can pick some customers up.   I can't see anyone being that keen to enter a broken market or for any consumer to shift to a new brand, though.   I think we are still some time away from normalisation but it is looking a little more positive for the consumer.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #512 on: 30 December, 2022, 12:42:05 pm »
I want to change to Octopus from Shell.  How/when can I do this without it costing teh erth?  When they say that you get moved to a cap rate, if we move now will the octopus bill be the same as the one I am on now come the next price increase?

Financial first.   Are you on a variable rate with Octopus ?   If so it will be more expensive to move to Shell as Octopus are pricing their SVR below the cap - only a bit but every little helps.   When the cap goes up in Oct both companies should be pricing the same but if Octopus continue with their current policy they will remain a bit cheaper.   If you are about to roll off a fixed rate with Octopus it will be cheaper to stay than to move.

Other reasons.  Shell are a dirty oil company with questionable ethics.   Octopus are a vertically integrated renewable supplier.
Octopus are also part of a multinational investment group, and a minor Tory donor.
https://newint.org/features/2022/11/28/crisis-capitalism-octopus-energy
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

TimC

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Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #513 on: 30 December, 2022, 01:25:47 pm »
"Corporate Watch is a research group that helps people stand up against corporations and capitalism" - quoted from that page, which somewhat sets the tone that all companies are evil.

It seems to fail to understand the difference between revenue and profit, and appears to interpret Octopus' participation in a government tax seminar as being in cahoots with the Tories - and links it by association with Uber and BP. It does nothing to help clarify whether the company is ethically run.

felstedrider

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #514 on: 30 December, 2022, 01:44:31 pm »
I want to change to Octopus from Shell.  How/when can I do this without it costing teh erth?  When they say that you get moved to a cap rate, if we move now will the octopus bill be the same as the one I am on now come the next price increase?

Financial first.   Are you on a variable rate with Octopus ?   If so it will be more expensive to move to Shell as Octopus are pricing their SVR below the cap - only a bit but every little helps.   When the cap goes up in Oct both companies should be pricing the same but if Octopus continue with their current policy they will remain a bit cheaper.   If you are about to roll off a fixed rate with Octopus it will be cheaper to stay than to move.

Other reasons.  Shell are a dirty oil company with questionable ethics.   Octopus are a vertically integrated renewable supplier.
Octopus are also part of a multinational investment group, and a minor Tory donor.
https://newint.org/features/2022/11/28/crisis-capitalism-octopus-energy

I stand by my point that Octopus Energy is a vertically integrated renewable energy supplier.

They are also much bigger now having just agreed to take on the Bulb portfolio.  The terms of the deal have not been made public, but they are shrewd negotiators.

felstedrider

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #515 on: 12 January, 2023, 01:24:43 pm »
This seems to be the general thread for energy related stuff now.

Useful article on wind generation and locational issues here.   (There was some discussion about locational anomolies a while back but I can't remember the exact points.

https://archy.deberker.com/the-uk-is-wasting-a-lot-of-wind-power/

Edited to add this as it's quite good as well :-

https://archy.deberker.com/what-do-energy-suppliers-actually-do-and-why-do-they-go-bust/

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #516 on: 13 January, 2023, 07:38:52 am »
In relation to the first link, we're getting a second ferkin great big new battery storage site near us
 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-64226854

The first site - in Enderby, almost opposite the Next HQ - looks nearly ready to be opened.
Surely this is a good thing despite the loss of agricultural land?
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #517 on: 13 January, 2023, 08:18:17 am »
This seems to be the general thread for energy related stuff now.

Useful article on wind generation and locational issues here.   (There was some discussion about locational anomolies a while back but I can't remember the exact points.

https://archy.deberker.com/the-uk-is-wasting-a-lot-of-wind-power/

Edited to add this as it's quite good as well :-

https://archy.deberker.com/what-do-energy-suppliers-actually-do-and-why-do-they-go-bust/

Interesting articles. Very important point that adding new big cables takes longer than building windfarms.  Just recently, approval was granted for a new, 1GW, cable to the outer hebrides. Very nice, but there is nowhere for the power to go.  NM, the estimated installation time is 2030.

We need more, very large scale, pumped hydro.

Elephant in the room is fertilizer.
The world would starve without nitrogen fertilizers.
About 1-2% of the entire energy supply of the world goes into this, mostly in the form of natural gas (reformed into hydrogen).

We really need to switch from using natural gas for this to using 'green' hydrogen. It is absurd that we basically throw away wind generation capacity.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

felstedrider

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #518 on: 13 January, 2023, 08:30:23 am »
In relation to the first link, we're getting a second ferkin great big new battery storage site near us
 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-64226854

The first site - in Enderby, almost opposite the Next HQ - looks nearly ready to be opened.
Surely this is a good thing despite the loss of agricultural land?

I think it's good for system security.   The investment case for batteries isn't brilliant and it's a bit of a gamble for the developer.   There is an issue of cannibalisation if too much capacity is built.   If you build too many the reason for existence ceases to be there.

felstedrider

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #519 on: 13 January, 2023, 11:47:30 am »
This is a long read that covers where we should be going but also explains some of the regulatory failures around privatisation.

http://www.dieterhelm.co.uk/regulation/regulation/energy-network-regulation-failures-and-net-zero/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #520 on: 13 January, 2023, 06:03:28 pm »
I didn't really understand the majority of that. Quite detailed and an insider's perspective. But it does show how massively complex the system we've set up is.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

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Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #521 on: 13 January, 2023, 06:24:52 pm »
I didn't really understand the majority of that. Quite detailed and an insider's perspective. But it does show how massively complex the system we've set up is.

I had to look up 'gearing'.

Seems to me that, as ever, there's more profit in finance than in doing business.  Which leads to companies, left to their own devices, being up to their eyeballs in debt and at the mercy of the financial climate, irrespective of how viable their actual business model might be.  This is deeply suboptimal when it's vital infrastructure, to say nothing of environmental concerns.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #522 on: 13 January, 2023, 06:32:11 pm »
Gearing was one of the things I did understand! I can even tell you that the trendy way to express it is in 'turns'. (For a bonus, I could tell you what a 'bip' is, but if I did that, I might then have to explain the ten ways of being out in cricket.)

Yes, financialisation of the economy is everywhere.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

felstedrider

Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #523 on: 13 January, 2023, 07:26:12 pm »
If you have a business that has assets and kicks off a reasonable amount of cash each year you can stick sone debt in and take cash out.  This has been a key strategy of funds buying utilities over the years.  The banks love it as the fees are chunky and the investment is quite safe.

Gearing isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  Without debt a lot of windfarms wouldn’t have been built.   Part of my current life is negotiating with project developers and their banks.  It’s not terribly easy.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Peoples Energy: any experiences and/or knowledge of this supplier please?
« Reply #524 on: 13 January, 2023, 07:35:17 pm »
They call it leverage in the finance industry and, irritatingly, everyone pronounces it the American way.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.