Author Topic: Rugby damage  (Read 2427 times)

Jaded

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  • Formerly known as Jaded
Rugby damage
« on: 16 July, 2022, 10:48:31 pm »
Just seen this story, about Ryan Jones.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62194385

Met him and saw him speak in 2017.

There's a lot of stuff to sort out in Rugby…
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Rugby damage
« Reply #1 on: 17 July, 2022, 12:05:09 am »
Yes, it's really upsetting.  But I wonder if rugby is actually to blame (though I'm not questioning that there are "things to sort out").  In football, I think the link is more likely because of the heading but, although there is occasional concussion in rugby, it isn't a method of play (though, of course, Ryan toured South Africa, where brutality was expected).  Early onset dementia (if that is a correct diagnosis) does occur outside the sporting milieu.  The novelist Mervyn Peake (Gormenghast trilogy) died of it.

Whatever the causes, it's a horrid thing to happen.  Good luck to Ryan Jones.

Wowbagger

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Re: Rugby damage
« Reply #2 on: 17 July, 2022, 07:20:22 am »
A number of cases have been highlighted lately. Steve Smith (England World Cup winner 2003) has a similar condition.

The impression I have gained is that there has been a marked increase in damage of this type since forwards (or perhaps players in general) have become much bigger and faster. When I played, in terms of height and weight (5’ 10”, 16st) i was about the same as international props like Graeme Price. The only differences were fitness and skill ;) . The modern game seems to demand that mostly forwards are much bigger than that, and the fact that they are professional probably means that they are much fitter.
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Re: Rugby damage
« Reply #3 on: 17 July, 2022, 06:53:27 pm »
I was just talking with a friend about this on Thursday, she doesn’t want her son playing football for a team because of the head risk.
I think rugby (and union in this case) need to look into this and see what can/needs to be done.  I fear that the incidence and significance will be difficult to make a clear case from and that we will end up with a mixed over-reaction and also not enough done to make meaningful changes.
My thought is about the whiplash effect that can happen to players from the tackle.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Re: Rugby damage
« Reply #4 on: 19 July, 2022, 10:20:43 am »
Rugby has a massive problem. There are more and more ex-pro players with this sort of issue in their 30s and early 40s, and I don't think the news is going to stop (Steve Thompson, Alix Popham and a whole lot of others took the rugby authorities to court not that long ago - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/dec/08/steve-thompson-former-rugby-union-players-dementia-landmark-legal-case ). It's not just about concussion, though that is a problem, especially for professionals and aspiring professionals playing in his era (there's an old football joke about a physio telling a coach that the player needs to come off because he doesn't know who he is, and the coach saying "tell him he's Pele and get him back on there"). They are trying much harder to mitigate concussion problems these days with return-to-play protocols and such, but the fundamental truth is that collision sports like rugby (both codes), American Football, ice hockey, etc. are not going to be able to remove those risks.
The research in American Football indicates that repeated sub concussive impacts are a significant risk in the development of CTE, and it was much harder to define where the risk was and how to mitigate it. Pretty much every tackle will cause such an impact, and much of the ruck clearing stuff too, so anyone who played in the back row and racked up high tackle counts should be assessed for this sort of thing IMO.

Football Associations in various countries have removed deliberate heading from the youth game, and more countries are looking into it. I think they should focus almost exclusively on footsal until teenage years, removing all incentive to head the ball and driving better technique. Though it won't stop a stray elbow, which is the only thing I remember making me see stars as a football player.

Re: Rugby damage
« Reply #5 on: 19 July, 2022, 12:20:33 pm »
I was not aware of the level of litigation that has already happened, or is mooted in Rugby.  Obviously, it is a serious problem and needs action.  It occurs to me to wonder why boxing and other martial "sports" are very quiet about this.  Is it because they are run by gangsters, or what?

Re: Rugby damage
« Reply #6 on: 19 July, 2022, 01:36:27 pm »
Boxing has had terms for this for a long time - punch drunk syndrome or dementia pugilista.
How you can mitigate against brain injury when the very object of the "sport" is to cause brain injury to your opponent is a circle I don't think they can square, and so as far as I'm aware, no-one is trying. I'm no lawyer, but the lack of lawsuits might be due to the way that fighters are not "employed" in the same way that team sports players typically are.

Re: Rugby damage
« Reply #7 on: 19 July, 2022, 01:59:06 pm »
My post was rhetorical only!

Re: Rugby damage
« Reply #8 on: 19 July, 2022, 05:57:55 pm »
I guess head trauma is an accident in football codes, whereas it’s part of the job in boxing an mma.  You would struggle to sue someone for having been hit in the head during a boxing match.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Re: Rugby damage
« Reply #9 on: 19 July, 2022, 07:19:35 pm »
Obviously.  I suppose that what I was getting at, however obliquely, is that there are some people who care about whether or not their fellow humans get brain damage and some who don't.  In my opinion an MMA fighter already has brain damage before they have ever stepped into a ring.