Amusing translation errors

[Beardy]

As a closed caption user the issue _I_ have with Netflix subtitles is that they are really complete CC in that they usually miss the sound effects. Worse though are the translation subtitles, because they not only miss the sound effects, but if the characters speak English at all, they don’t subtitle the dialogue. This is often a crucial plot element as well. For,some reason, they use the same translation subtitles on audio dubbed foreign language programmes with the bits spoken in English also missing.

This is frustrating, especially when Metfilx are by far the pest streaming provider for providing subtitles with Amazon falling a long way behind. The BBC has a habit of transcribing the subtitles in real time on magazine programmes, which are generally a waste of time in any case. They then include the ‘live’ subtitles with the catch up service. C4 are better, especially on the catchup. ITV (on my TV) don’t have any subtitles on the catch up service, though I don’t know if this is universal, or a failing with the app maintenance as my TV is getting on a bit now. We’ve not used Apple TV much, but what we have used has had subtitles.

[Cudzoziemiec]

If the closed captions are created for the hearing impaired, they should include sound effects like "doorbell rings" as well as all dialogue regardless of language. Dubbing is for translation, so doesn't need to include anything other dialogue (although see below) and also doesn't need to include dialogue in the audience's language (so English dialogue in a Korean movie, for instance).

Some signs and other on-screen text also needs to be included in dubbing and translated subs, for instance we need to know that someone's walked in through the door marked "exit". (There is a name used for this stuff but I've forgotten it.) But that doesn't need to be in the closed captions for the hard of hearing – except where the whole movie is being translated. So in that respect, the CC or SDH or whatever other names it might go be needs two different sources: one for the "native" audience and one for the rest of the world.

[Beardy]

The point is that if translation subtitles have been produced, they hardly ever bother with creating CC/SDH subtitles. At least that seems to be the norm on the streaming services these days. It’s very annoying.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I see. That would be especially infuriating as once you've made the translation subtitles, you're most of the way to having the CC – but lacking some vital components. Plus I thought there were actually laws requiring CC/SDH (but maybe that's only in USA and maybe it only applies to broadcast TV or something).

[Kim]

Ofcom has rules about closed captioning, audio description and BSL interpretation. Different channels have different quotas, according to how big they are. I don't know the specifics, or whether they consider live captioning acceptable.

[Kim]

Oh, the other thing you sometimes get in SDH is deliberate simplification of the language, on the basis that deaf people may be using a second language, or have lower than average reading skills due to systemic flaws in education.

The practice is at least as contentious as the sub vs dub debate.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'm not familiar with deaf schools (though my neighbour, who is herself hearing impaired*, has a son at one) but it's easy to imagine such schools could be dumping grounds. But then recognising that seems both pragmatic and accepting a sort of education apartheid.

Also, aren't most people using captions just old people who've gone through standard schooling?

*Her term. Whether, to her, it represents something distinct from deaf or hard of hearing, I don't know. 

[barakta]

OfCom rules haven't historically applied standards or quantity wise to "on demand" services. I can't remember if that is set to change or not.

Agree about it being frustrated when foreign language is captioned but English is not.

No idea why some people would use the term "hearing impaired" about themselves, but some do. Just cos 'the deaf communities' as much as a community is 'defined' hate the term, doesn't mean individuals agree.

[Kim]

I'm not familiar with deaf schools (though my neighbour, who is herself hearing impaired*, has a son at one) but it's easy to imagine such schools could be dumping grounds. But then recognising that seems both pragmatic and accepting a sort of education apartheid.

It's a complicated subject with need for more than one highlighter pen, but there's something to be said for a less academically successful school where you stand a chance at being able to communicate with staff and your peers, rather than being dumped at the back of a mainstream class and intermittently tormented by a peripatetic teacher-of-the-deaf whose qualifications typically stop somewhere short of being able to communicate effectively with deaf people.

(With your other highlighter pens you can add sign vs oral, immigration/cultural/class issues and generational trends in education.)

But yes, the well-educated native BSLers are a vocal minority, outnumbered by those denied access to education thorugh a combination of lack of resources and staunch oralism.  And they're all vastly outnumbered by people with normal English skills who've lost hearing later in life (a decent proportion of which are too in denial to use assistive technology like captions anyway).

[chrisbainbridge]

a decent proportion of which are too in denial to use assistive technology like captions anyway

Or even like my FiL to use his hearing aids.

[Cudzoziemiec]

No idea why some people would use the term "hearing impaired" about themselves, but some do. Just cos 'the deaf communities' as much as a community is 'defined' hate the term, doesn't mean individuals agree.

I suppose this is a bit like black, coloured, of colour, negro, BAME or BAMER – or indeed white, caucasian, etc – in that the generally accepted term varies from time to time and place to place and by context, but within that, individuals will have their own preferences for themselves.

[Cudzoziemiec]

And talking of that^, the Grauniad has an article today about the meaning of the word 'woke'. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/09/woke-word-meaning-definition-progressive
It's American in context and it seems that for Americans, 'woke' is purely connected with racial politics. I don't think it has that specificity here. And then one of them mentions 'hotep'. A word taken from Ancient Egypt and given a meaning in America which explicitly links its etymology to Egypt but seems to me totally unconnected.
https://youtu.be/iw5bYlTs9Wk

The more words I know, the fewer of them I understand as words, rather than parts of sentences.

[Pingu]

Zuckerberg's Walled Garden offered up a translation of I Zimbra by Talking Heads 

[Cudzoziemiec]

Not an error, but an interesting discussion of the difficulties in translating Macron's statement, "Les non-vaccinés, j’ai très envie de les emmerder.". It is, of course, complicated with many factors modifying each other, not least the fact that it's spoken by the President of France in his official capacity.

But it also struck me as interesting that different languages or cultures use different bodily excretions for this purpose: the French use shit, in English we might also use shit but tend to use piss, in Polish it's vomit. I wonder about non-European languages?

https://theconversation.com/piss-off-annoy-shit-on-why-macrons-use-of-the-french-swear-word-emmerder-is-so-hard-to-translate-174627

[Cudzoziemiec]

The language of love: a Chinese man and a Brazilian woman met at a Star Trek convention. The only language they had in common was Klingon.

This much appears to be a true story. What I really want to be a true story, but isn't, would be that they had children, whose first language was naturally Klingon.

[Salvatore]

Automatic translation from Finnish is a reliable source of errors. Yesterday from a Finnish cycling youtuber on twitter

Millaisia ovat Oulun kehutut kävely- ja pyöräilybaanat ja miten niitä ylläpidetään? Päivän videolla tutustun Oulun talvipyöräilyolosuhteisiin

translated by google as

What are the acclaimed walking and cycling bananas in Oulu like and how are they maintained? In the video of the day, I will get to know the winter cycling conditions in Oulu

pyöräilybaanat - pyöräily=bike, and the -t at the end shows it's plural, so baan must be tracks, but I can't find it in any Finnish dictionary, so I assume it's a loan from Swedish bana or somesuch.

Anyway, I like the idea of cycling bananas. Especially acclaimed ones.

I'm reminded of a former colleague who used 'banana' as a general-purpose noun, both as a substitute for 'whatsitsname' and also to avoid cliche. "Not that old banana" for "not that old chestnut". I can imagine him saying "Shall we ride on the road or the cycle banana?". I wonder if nuncio knows who I mean?

BTW I can vouch for Oulu's cycle bananas. In summer at least.

[Nuncio]

Rings a bell but I can't place them. ('I'll know when you tell me'.)

[Salvatore]

Rings a bell but I can't place them. ('I'll know when you tell me'.)

One of two brothers who worked there.

[rafletcher]

Automatic translation from Finnish is a reliable source of errors. Yesterday from a Finnish cycling youtuber on twitter

Millaisia ovat Oulun kehutut kävely- ja pyöräilybaanat ja miten niitä ylläpidetään? Päivän videolla tutustun Oulun talvipyöräilyolosuhteisiin

translated by google as

What are the acclaimed walking and cycling bananas in Oulu like and how are they maintained? In the video of the day, I will get to know the winter cycling conditions in Oulu

pyöräilybaanat - pyöräily=bike, and the -t at the end shows it's plural, so baan must be tracks, but I can't find it in any Finnish dictionary, so I assume it's a loan from Swedish bana or somesuch.

Anyway, I like the idea of cycling bananas. Especially acclaimed ones.

I'm reminded of a former colleague who used 'banana' as a general-purpose noun, both as a substitute for 'whatsitsname' and also to avoid cliche. "Not that old banana" for "not that old chestnut". I can imagine him saying "Shall we ride on the road or the cycle banana?". I wonder if nuncio knows who I mean?

BTW I can vouch for Oulu's cycle bananas. In summer at least.

There was, of course, Team Raleigh Banana...

https://www.google.com/search?q=raleigh+banana+team&rlz=1C1GCEU_enGB984GB984&sxsrf=APq-WBtHXg7mHWksLiALNefcF8kSCGUPmQ%3A1646927584035&ei=4B4qYsmzAfaBhbIPq52PuAs&oq=raleigh+banana+&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYAzIECCMQJzIFCAAQkQIyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCRAjIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMggIABCABBDJAzIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDoHCCMQsAMQJzoHCAAQRxCwAzoKCAAQRxCwAxDJAzoGCAAQFhAeSgQIQRgASgQIRhgAUIUHWNcKYLQpaAFwAHgAgAGVAYgBgQOSAQMzLjGYAQCgAQHIAQnAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz

[Tim Hall]

Jurek does sterling work with handlebar-curve-matching bananas and tactical velcro. I can't find a picture right now though but I think they count as cycling bananas.

[Kim]

Shirley a cycling bananananana is how the uninitiated refer to a Kingcycle?

[Cudzoziemiec]

Ah yes, thanks. It was a Kingcycle I saw the other day pulling a little one-wheel trailer. I knew I had known the name!

[Salvatore]

pyöräilybaanat - pyöräily=bike, and the -t at the end shows it's plural, so baan must be tracks, but I can't find it in any Finnish dictionary, so I assume it's a loan from Swedish bana or somesuch.

The singular is in fact baana - road, and it's in every Finnish-English resource I've consulted, so no excuse for Google translate. And it is a loan from Swedish bana.

[hellymedic]

pyöräilybaanat - pyöräily=bike, and the -t at the end shows it's plural, so baan must be tracks, but I can't find it in any Finnish dictionary, so I assume it's a loan from Swedish bana or somesuch.

The singular is in fact baana - road, and it's in every Finnish-English resource I've consulted, so no excuse for Google translate. And it is a loan from Swedish bana.

Same origin as German Bahn or false friend?

[Salvatore]

pyöräilybaanat - pyöräily=bike, and the -t at the end shows it's plural, so baan must be tracks, but I can't find it in any Finnish dictionary, so I assume it's a loan from Swedish bana or somesuch.

The singular is in fact baana - road, and it's in every Finnish-English resource I've consulted, so no excuse for Google translate. And it is a loan from Swedish bana.

Same origin as German Bahn or false friend?

I assume germanic origin ('germanic' including north or west germanic languages, so Scandinavian tongues as well as German, English, Flemish etc). There are plenty of germanic load words in Finnish, usually via Swedish, but they've been Finnishified so difficult to spot, e.g.
ranta = beach (from strand in Swedish, Finnish doesn't like initial clusters so dropped the 'st'), or
kahvi =coffee, or
penkki = bench, Swedish bänk, or
gatu = street, gata in Swedish, -gate in scandinvian-influenced bits of England.

The word kuningas (=king) is also a germanic loan word, but in this case it was loaned many centuries ago, and is much closer to the original form in Finnish than in less conservative germanic languages (king, kung, konge etc, but Konungur in conservative Icelandic). I heard this fact in one of the first lectures I attended in September 1975, and remembered it in 2013 when I was in Finland with swarm_catcher on the way to Russia and there was a statue with an inscription including the word 'kuningas', and I suddenly recalled Rudi Keller's wise words.

Sorry, not very amusing.