Steady lights on on calendar events - resolution for AUK AGM

[arabella]

I'd like to bring to your attention the resolution I have submitted to the AUK AGM about using steady lights only - because some of us find flashing/pulsing/etc lights causes us problems.  There's a lot more more on the topic on the AUK forum.

Please vote in favour, and please encourage others to vote in favour.  (Check your spam if the AGM email doesn't seem to have arrived, your email will also have the additional info/rationale).
If you're not sure, consider voting in favour out of consideration for those who are negatively impacted by flashing etc. lights.
Or if you still don't care then please actively abstain, rather than letting someone else chose for you.

Any further debate please put on the AUK forum (it's your normal AUK login details).
KEEP THE DEBATE IN ONE PLACE, which is the AUK Forum thread!

(Mods: please ban replies here, but make sticky until after voting closes which is 5pm on 15th Feb)

[rogerzilla]

Stickified but we only lock threads if they get out of hand.

[vorsprung]

the motion was defeated

[Feanor]

Yes, and I think that was the correct response.

We should advise and educate, not prohibit.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Bollocks. People who ride in groups using flashing lights have announced themselves as shits.

[John Stonebridge]

As somebody whose vision is affected by this issue I find that disappointing.
 
It will mean fewer calendar events for me, soon enough anything above 200 will pretty much have to be a DIY. 

Also makes me way less likely to organise events in future

All so that some flash Harry can have their preferred rear light setting. 

Hot dog 

[Adam]

I don't know if this is still the case, but when I was involved with the FNRttC (Friday Night to the Coast) rides, in the safety briefing before we set off, there would always be a statement about not using flashing lights on the ride.  Bearing in mind we would regularly get 50+ riders, that could be VERY annoying seeing as there'd be large groups riding together.

If someone was subsequently found to be flashing, I, or someone else, would ask them to switch to steady.  I remember on one occasion, someone only had a basic flashing only light so I gave them a spare one of mine.

So organisers should really push the message that flashers aren't appreciated.

[Hot Flatus]

Apart from anything else, flashing lights are unnecessary if riding in a group.

However I agree with Feanor. I think the decision not to ban is correct. Lots of audax riding is done on one's own and people should be free to ride as they feel because safety, not inconvenience, is paramount. But I'd agree that it ought to be stressed that if you choose to ride in a group it is inconsiderate to remain on flash. It ought be be within the culture that a polite request to change flash mode to static is usual. No need to be rude or aggressive and labelling people "shits". You don't know what their motivations are. There are plenty of audax riders who are quite oblivious. That doesn't make them "shits".

On flashing lights in general, I'd say this. If they are distracting then good. It is their purpose to distract drivers away from what else is distracting them and focus them on me.

I ride a lot of hours, and it's rare for me to have a commute where at least one builder's van doesn't pass me with weed smoke wafting out, or seeing many drivers looking down at mobiles. I want them distracted back to me.

AFAIK the majority of accidents involving bikes occur at junctions, where visibility is key. It's not good enough for people to say "drivers should look out for cyclists", because even though they should, they don't.

[arabella]

Apart from anything else, flashing lights are unnecessary if riding in a group.

That was the point of the resolution - ECE and DIY were excluded.  Group == calendar event.  Admittedly well strung out in some cases but also yo-yoing.

On flashing lights in general, I'd say this. If they are distracting then good. It is their purpose to distract drivers away from what else is distracting them and focus them on me.

You do realise that the distracting also applies to your fellow cyclists?  Which isn't good.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Given the number of audaxers during brevets who refuse to swap to steady lights when asked and expect to be instantly squashed by motor vehicles without their blindingly flashing lights despite the other cyclists around them, ‘shits’ is a fair description.

[Hot Flatus]

Have you tried being polite?

I've never had a rider refuse to change a light from flashing to static.

[Hot Flatus]

You do realise that the distracting also applies to your fellow cyclists?  Which isn't good.

I am also a "fellow cyclist" 

I've no issue with riders asking other riders, in a group, to turn off a flash.

 Other circumstances are less clear cut, for example if riding alone another rider catches up with me and finds my flashing light annoying I'd expect them to continue past me. They cannot expect me to change what I am doing just because they want to wheelsuck. How would they even be sure I am on the same event?

I'm 20 years of near daily commuting I've had two people ride up from behind and have a whinge about my flashing light. One of them I'd just flown past on a fixed. He buried himself to catch up with me for a whine.  Really odd behaviour. I would have been out of sight in seconds.

The second time was on a cyclepath. A rider came up behind me and sat on my wheel. I moved over and waved them through. They sat there, then when we got to a junction had a whine. Both these were in full daylight.
m. Both were treated to a rare lack of diplomacy on my part.

Some people just like complaining. And for clarity, I don't mean you. Flashing lights in groups of riders are annoying and unnecessary, and I agree with you.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

HF, have you asked more than a handful of times? I am at least as polite as you.

[grams]

Unless you're absurdly fast or absurdly slow entering a calendar event means at times riding in groups, or at least within annoyance distance of other riders. Don't use a fucking flashing light.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I don't do audax

Flashing lights trigger disabling migraines for me.
Flashing lights make it very difficult to just distance (applies to front and rear).

Flashing front lights are by far the worst. On dark paths I found myself reduced to completely stopping until the rider had passed me.

Very bright, badly adjusted lights on steady are also bad for dazzle and making it impossible to judge distance.

[Hot Flatus]

HF, have you asked more than a handful of times? I am at least as polite as you.

I've never asked anyone l.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

So, a meaningless answer.

[C-3PO]

Civil, please, masters.

[rogerzilla]

I don't do audax but have done a lot of Dunwich Dynamos.  Flashing lights are bloody awful in a group.  Luckily, as long as someone in *your* group isn't using one, you are either passing the flashers or being overtaken by them, so a relatively few flashers are only a transient problem.  If a lot of people are using them, it's headache time.

[Tim Hall]

<thread drift>  Let's hear it for badly angled too bright steady lights too. All those Chinesium giga-lumen light buckets without a semblance of beam shaping. Dazzling people heading towards you isn't good, especially when they're piloting 2t of metal.  Rear lights as well.  There's someone in our Tandem Club group who deploys a dazzling rear light. Of course I haven't actually mentioned it to them yet...

[LittleWheelsandBig]

C-3PO, please point out where I have attacked anybody on this thread.

[C-3PO]

C-3PO, please point out where I have attacked anybody on this thread.

No one has been singled out.

Discussion over.

[Hot Flatus]

So, a meaningless answer.

Just my little joke.

I think we are all agreed that flashing lights are inappropriate and possibly dangerous in a group. Should not be a compulsory though.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

There are plenty of audaxing shits that won't stop using flashing light in groups unless there is a rule against it. Tutting at them just strengthens their resolve. At PBP, I had to audibly record somebody's number to get them to stop their taillight flashing, despite PBP's rule. These idiots think that their perception of 'safety' overrides everything.

[Peter]

I don't think anyone's mentioned the other and possibly major reason why people might use flashing modes on lamps:  run time.

A flashing mode will last hours, sometimes days longer than a steady beam.  I bet this is a huge factor.

That doesn't mean I approve and I don't flash myself.  Certainly not since that zip malfunction ...