Ministers to consult on doubling legal wattage of electric bike motors

[MattH]

It's not Zedify and the like that are leading the charge on this - it's the likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo who are supplying and using bikes which are not currently legal (using some very shady legal reasoning).

I'm intrigued by that - what are they doing and what is their reasoning?

[Paul H]

It's not Zedify and the like that are leading the charge on this - it's the likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo who are supplying and using bikes which are not currently legal (using some very shady legal reasoning).

Where is the evidence for that?  I've already said why I think it highly unlikely.
The only bikes I know of being supplied, on lease or rent, by any of the apps are from Eskuta and Zoomo and the models they offer are 250W and fine for the job.  Though I'm aware how many riders like to ride around on higher powered illegal bikes, my six years delivering experience makes me sceptical that a higher powered bike (With the same 25kph cut off) is going to make the job more profitable or efficient.

[Regulator]

It's not Zedify and the like that are leading the charge on this - it's the likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo who are supplying and using bikes which are not currently legal (using some very shady legal reasoning).

Where is the evidence for that?  I've already said why I think it highly unlikely.
The only bikes I know of being supplied, on lease or rent, by any of the apps are from Eskuta and Zoomo and the models they offer are 250W and fine for the job.  Though I'm aware how many riders like to ride around on higher powered illegal bikes, my six years delivering experience makes me sceptical that a higher powered bike (With the same 25kph cut off) is going to make the job more profitable or efficient.

The Just Eat and Deliveroo branded bikes around here aren’t legal.  They’re throttle controlled and don’t require the rider to pedal even at speeds in excess of 6kmh. 

[quixoticgeek]

An excellent idea.

Very useful for cargo bikes, which will be essential for making sustainable last mile delivery.

While we're at it can we apply the same limits to cars. Max 500w power, and max 25kph speed.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

It's not Zedify and the like that are leading the charge on this - it's the likes of Just Eat and Deliveroo who are supplying and using bikes which are not currently legal (using some very shady legal reasoning).

Where is the evidence for that?  I've already said why I think it highly unlikely.
The only bikes I know of being supplied, on lease or rent, by any of the apps are from Eskuta and Zoomo and the models they offer are 250W and fine for the job.  Though I'm aware how many riders like to ride around on higher powered illegal bikes, my six years delivering experience makes me sceptical that a higher powered bike (With the same 25kph cut off) is going to make the job more profitable or efficient.

The Just Eat and Deliveroo branded bikes around here aren’t legal.  They’re throttle controlled and don’t require the rider to pedal even at speeds in excess of 6kmh.

https://extrahelpings.just-eat.co.uk/cost-effective-delivery-e-bikes
Gosh. I've never seen one of these – perhaps they're only offering them in certain places. They say

Just Eat has partnered with Eskuta to offer electric pedal bikes to Restaurant Partners at exclusively discounted rates.

which implies they're not offered to the actual riders directly. The manufacturer distinguishes one model as an EAPC and the other as a e-motorcycle, and the video for the EAPC shows pedalling. The presence of pedals rather than pegs is about the only thing that visually distinguishes the models. It would be not at all surprising if some "restaurant partners" were using the mopeds without registering them.

[Paul H]

https://extrahelpings.just-eat.co.uk/cost-effective-delivery-e-bikes
Gosh. I've never seen one of these – perhaps they're only offering them in certain places. They say

Just Eat has partnered with Eskuta to offer electric pedal bikes to Restaurant Partners at exclusively discounted rates.

which implies they're not offered to the actual riders directly. The manufacturer distinguishes one model as an EAPC and the other as a e-motorcycle, and the video for the EAPC shows pedalling. The presence of pedals rather than pegs is about the only thing that visually distinguishes the models. It would be not at all surprising if some "restaurant partners" were using the mopeds without registering them.

I mentioned Eskuta upthread, riders can rent or lease them, the delivery apps facilitate this (In return for the branding) but the contract is between the cycle provider and the rider.  Despite what Regulator thinks, the pedelecs are supplied conforming with EAPC requirements, though the "must have pedals that can be used to propel it" is vague enough to include ghost pedalling and of course how long they remain compliant is the same for any E-bike.  The electric scooters are supplied DVLA registered.
Restaurant partners are something different to the gig economy, unlike the other apps, Just Eat can act solely as a booking service and leave the delivery to the restaurant.

[Adam]

Cycling UK's rebuttal of the proposals can be seen here:

https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/statement-proposed-changes-e-cycle-regulations

People want safer spaces to cycle, not faster ways to endanger other people.

[Regulator]

Cycling UK's rebuttal of the proposals can be seen here:

https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/statement-proposed-changes-e-cycle-regulations

People want safer spaces to cycle, not faster ways to endanger other people.

For once I agree with Cycling UK. 

[Polar Bear]

The ship has already sailed on illegal e-bikes and there has been no attempt at enforcement. 

I'm really not sure what they want to achieve by this other than court gammonati opinion which is what our local council tried when they consulted to ban bicycles from the pedestrian area of the town centre whilst ignoring the fact that the deliveroo, Just Eat, Door Dash etc. small car and motorbike users were* illegally driving / riding through the pedestrian areas at all hours.  And not a word on the e-scooters ...

They dropped the plans because they did not want to stop the latter.

* Still are.  🤔

[Cudzoziemiec]

https://extrahelpings.just-eat.co.uk/cost-effective-delivery-e-bikes
Gosh. I've never seen one of these – perhaps they're only offering them in certain places. They say

Just Eat has partnered with Eskuta to offer electric pedal bikes to Restaurant Partners at exclusively discounted rates.

which implies they're not offered to the actual riders directly. The manufacturer distinguishes one model as an EAPC and the other as a e-motorcycle, and the video for the EAPC shows pedalling. The presence of pedals rather than pegs is about the only thing that visually distinguishes the models. It would be not at all surprising if some "restaurant partners" were using the mopeds without registering them.

I mentioned Eskuta upthread, riders can rent or lease them, the delivery apps facilitate this (In return for the branding) but the contract is between the cycle provider and the rider.  Despite what Regulator thinks, the pedelecs are supplied conforming with EAPC requirements, though the "must have pedals that can be used to propel it" is vague enough to include ghost pedalling and of course how long they remain compliant is the same for any E-bike.  The electric scooters are supplied DVLA registered.
Restaurant partners are something different to the gig economy, unlike the other apps, Just Eat can act solely as a booking service and leave the delivery to the restaurant.

You did mention them upthread, I can't remember now if that's how I found that link. I think it was just random googling. However, it's good to have a comment with knowledge. 

[MartinC]

.....People want safer spaces to cycle, not faster ways to endanger other people.

That's an excellent encapsulation of the argument. It might be more correct to say reasonable people though.

In many ways the whole discussion is redundant.  The regs are largely ignored and there's been no appetite/capability for enforcement.  All that will happen is that the inevitable public outrage in response to the inevitable incidents will lead to more anti-cycling measures that will restrict the law abiding and be ignored by the scofflaws.  What a stupid country we live in.

[Kim]

Cycling UK's rebuttal of the proposals can be seen here:

https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/statement-proposed-changes-e-cycle-regulations

People want safer spaces to cycle, not faster ways to endanger other people.

Agree with that part, but I think the health benefits of pedalling are a spurious argument.  They wanted e-scooters restricted to a lower speed than e-bikes for the same reason.  Cycling UK should be making it easier for people to cycle, not forcing them to do exercise.

Blurring the line between e-bikes and motorcycles is a more reasonable concern, and I'm wondering if that's where the government are heading with this (turn them into motorcycles, then quietly legislate them off the road like motorcycles).  They're shirley not being lobbied by Big E-Bike.

[MartinC]

..Blurring the line between e-bikes and motorcycles is a more reasonable concern, and I'm wondering if that's where the government are heading with this (turn them into motorcycles, then quietly legislate them off the road like motorcycles).  They're shirley not being lobbied by Big E-Bike.

I'm a bit more cynical. They'll use the public outcry at the incidents that happen to turn them all into mopeds to speed up the traffic and then get acoustic bikes off the road 'cos they're too 'dangerous' now.

[Cudzoziemiec]

In addition to legislating motorcycles off the road, they've created economic conditions which mean we have more motorcycles than for many decades before. At one end, there are the scooters (just to be clear, I mean little Yamaha 125s etc not Tier or Pure) running the gig economy, at the other, there are wealthy retired or semi-retired men (occasionally women) reimagining their youth.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Back to EAPCs: I don't think it's part of any dastardly plot to force either pedal bikes or e-bikes off the road (or even off the trails), it's just another distraction, perhaps designed to keep some people busy in the run up to May (or is it now November?).