Rugby in crisis?

[Wowbagger]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/feb/20/strike-threats-netflix-feuds-wales-rugby-union-crisis

Interesting article. I hardly follow sport these days, beyond a few minutes' highlights, so the structural disquiet in Welsh rugby was news to me. That piece reckons it's happening to all sport to one degree or another.

[Mr Larrington]

The Welsh players probably got wind of “Formula 1: Drive To Survive” and decided that kind of thing was something they could live without.  Noted racing motor-ist Mr M Verstappen has told Netflix where to go, which must irk them somewhat given that the spotty little oik has been World Champion for the past two seasons

[spesh]

The Welsh players probably got wind of “Formula 1: Drive To Survive” and decided that kind of thing was something they could live without.

That, and/or "Break Point"... 

The Guardian - Total wipeout: ‘Netflix curse’ strikes tennis players at Australian Open

[DuncanM]

Rugby has never worked as a professional sport.
All the TV money is at the international level, and the gates at club level aren't enough to cover costs (at least in Wales, maybe it works for a tiny minority of clubs). So you have a professional pyramid being held up from the top by the WRU who have to also support the needs of the rest of the (non pro) pyramid. The same is true of cricket. I don't see how pro clubs can survive in either sport.

British cycling has the same problem, and the top level road racing scene in this country is collapsing (the Tour Series isn't running this year, which means any decent team is going to wonder why they bother). I don't know what the answer is, it's not like the pro ranks are functional worldwide.

[fd3]

^
Union went pro after the success of League as a pro outfit.  Even before they were officially pro clubs were shamateur with under the table payments, so the pro thing is not new.

Possibly the issue isn't professionalism, but rather how much players are paid?  The wheel came off when Union tried to win a wage war with League and now Union players can make 2-3 times as much as League players, but only thanks to magic money trees.

[telstarbox]

My impression is that rugby league clubs tend to  stay in their original town (like football clubs) and have established local support bases, whereas the union clubs tend to move around, merge or fold in the style of American franchises. Wasps have moved around a few times for example. I don't think I've ever met a union club fan in the UK.

[SteveC]

Some clubs, I suspect mostly the ones which did not start in London, do have local support bases.
Exeter and Bath spring to mind as relatively near by examples.
There probably were too many clubs in London for a professional set up.

But it's the internationals, particularly the Six Nations, where all the money is. That's the crux of the problem.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I was going to say Gloucester and Bath. Could be significant too that none of Exeter, Bath or Gloucester have big football clubs?

[telstarbox]

Think that applies to the South West generally - the least football heavy region of England.

[DuncanM]

Bristol had a sizeable fanbase, despite having 2 football clubs.

Before "professionalism", players were paid, but they still had jobs. If you were a particular sort of club, you could even arrange for star players to get cushy jobs with local employers to get them to join you! However, since going full-time, the money the club earns hasn't gone up all that much, but the costs have gone up massively. A significant factor in the rise of Union wages in the UK has been the way that the French clubs threw money around. If you wanted to keep your international stars (who make an impact on the gate, and on the compensation from the union) you had to compete with the French clubs and that drove everything up.
The recent changes have brought the salary cap down in England (to £5m), and so there's a strange case that the Welsh regions can pay more for the moment, but that's unsustainable. That's £5m for the salaries for the whole playing squad. You've got to sell a lot of matchday tickets to pay that. Meanwhile football has disappeared over the hills and far away. Some (most?) League 1 clubs will have a larger salary spend than £5m.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Bristol had a sizeable fanbase, despite having 2 football clubs.

A quick google suggests the Bears and City get similar sized crowds, about 17,000 – perhaps not coincidentally as they play at the same stadium? Also they're far more successful in their field than either of the football clubs have been or ever will be!

Before "professionalism", players were paid, but they still had jobs. If you were a particular sort of club, you could even arrange for star players to get cushy jobs with local employers to get them to join you!

Soviet amateurism.

[fd3]

Leicester? Sale? Newcastle?

I think merged clubs i a Welsh thing and moving is purely a Wasps thing.

[Peter]

Think that applies to the South West generally - the least football heavy region of England.

I think that would be what is now called Cumbria.  Carlisle the only League team.  South West has Exeter, Plymouth and (occasionally) Torquay.

[Hair_Today_Gone_Tomorrow]

Think that applies to the South West generally - the least football heavy region of England.

I think that would be what is now called Cumbria.  Carlisle the only League team.  South West has Exeter, Plymouth and (occasionally) Torquay.

somebody had better tell Barrow they are out of the football League again.

actually somebody had better tell the Football League as well, because they still think Barrow are in League 2

[Peter]

Yes, indeed, sorry about that!  But I apologise to you, not Barrow, who wanted to put a statue of Emlyn Hughes outside their ground after he retired.  Quite rightly there was an outcry because they actually rejected him as a youngster and he never played for his local team.

Edit:  Historically, Barrow was in Lancashire until Cumbria was invented in 1974, I think, so I hope I may be forgiven.