My brain hurts - beginners guide needed for elctronic navigation and mapping.

[slope]

I've always relied on OS paper maps. I don't really understand maps on my iPhone yet. I do have premium sub with OS Maps - but haven't made much progress.

I haven't a clue how to use a satnav (my wee basic van doesn't have one anyway)

So, for a simple example today when I intentionally ventured off road into Beddgelert forest - hard pack fire and tree felling gravelly roads - zero technical skills needed to ride (which is good cos although I've been cycling a lot for at least 65 years, it's never been 'offroad'. But I've now got an MTB hardtail e-bike to play with.

Ideally I would have wanted something on my handlebars that displayed a map and my position on it as I ventured.

In Beddgelert Forest there is a sometimes patchily marked trail - the Derwen Trail. Which I wanted to follow. But also wanted to deviate up other tracks just to see what might be - and be able to return to the route.

In easy single syllables style - what are my options and where might be the simplest explanations on how to use them?

I have an iPhone 15 Pro but really don't want such an expensive huge thing on my handlebars, even though there is a Bosch mount for such that will keep the phone powered from the bike's battery.

I have a Bosch Kiox 300 handlebar display for the Bosch e-bike motor, which is supposed to be able to navigate via Komoot - but all the examples I have seen just deliver a coloured line with arrows to follow = not what I want.

There is a great need to be able to 'see' where I am in the world - as in my position on a map.

And the wish to follow a route (that often seems to be downloadable in .gpx format) - but also get to that route from wherever I might choose to start.

When I was up in the forest earlier and stopped to get my phone out, none of my mapping apps showed where I was - OS Maps, Google Maps, Apple Maps (well they sort of did but no mapping was available)

I hope someone will take pity on and gently nudge me in the right direction to begin with, please?

🤞🙏

[Hot Flatus]

Cheap mapping GPS and a free Ridewith GPS account.

That is all you need. You can plot routes, download other people's gpx routes into RWGPS, then fly them onto your GPS unit

There are some cheap Chinese brands appearing, like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/iGPSPORT-Waterproof-Speedometer-Automatic-Backlight/dp/B0BBGTR1GP/ref=asc_df_B0BBGTR1GP/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=621725238857&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5743643074722120277&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007068&hvtargid=pla-1875525479270&psc=1

[lissotriton]

For your phone, try Organic Maps. Can download maps for the whole country, then works offline.

[Kim]

Not a general solution, but because it's eminently useful to be able to do this sort of thing:

When I was up in the forest earlier and stopped to get my phone out, none of my mapping apps showed where I was - OS Maps, Google Maps, Apple Maps (well they sort of did but no mapping was available)

The phone determining its location, and being connected to the internet are different things.

Therefore, if you use a mapping app that stores the map data on the phone itself, rather than fetching tiles over the internet as needed to display them, it will solve this problem.  Some of the above apps can be persuaded to make a local copy of an area if you tell it to download it in advance, but I prefer to use one that's designed to be used this way, without faffing about with forward planning piecemeal downloads.

https://organicmaps.app/  is a good start, on account of being free.  https://memory-map.com/ seems to be the current least-worst way to do this with OS mapping.


For bolt-it-to-the-handlebars simplicity, I prefer a dedicated GPS receiver.  Choosing one is a complicated subject with no simple answers.


ETA: Crosspost with lissotriton

[slope]

Thanks folks - first lesson learnt = couldn’t see the previously downloaded ‘offline’ OS map on my phone today as I’d saved it to the cloud, not my phone

More practice tomorrow

[Cudzoziemiec]

The issue of the phone knowing where it is does not seem to be straightforward. I have on mine an app called OSM Viewer, which instantly keeps track of where I am as well as showing useful detail (eg bus stops, house numbers, official and unofficial footpaths). But it doesn't plot a route. I have another, called On The Go Map, which isn't always good at keeping track of where I am, but does plot routes (different routes for walking, cycling, and driving, as well as straight lines). And then I have OS Locate, which has no map but just gives grid ref, which I'll use in conjunction with a map. And finally, I have cycle.travel app for actually plotting cycling routes (On The Go Map plots routes on the basis of shortest distance, including legalities such as banned turns, but takes no account of eg a road being a quiet street or a d-c A road). I started using cycle.travel on the phone because the screen on my ~10 year old Etrex 20 was becoming dim, and I suppose my eyes older, and I was sometimes missing turns.

[Lightning Phil]

I’d take a look at something like a second hand Satmap with OS maps for off road with OS mapping.

[Tim Hall]

I've not used organicmaps.

How does it compare to OSMAnd? 

Both seem to save Open Street Maps to the phone and are free ?

[Cudzoziemiec]

OSMand basically didn't work on my phone. Needed too much memory, ran very very slowly.

[Kim]

I've not used organicmaps.

How does it compare to OSMAnd? 

Both seem to save Open Street Maps to the phone and are free ?

The free version of OSMAnd limits the number of maps you can download.

[Tim Hall]

I've not used organicmaps.

How does it compare to OSMAnd? 

Both seem to save Open Street Maps to the phone and are free ?

The free version of OSMAnd limits the number of maps you can download.

True. Although you used to able to get them direct from <somewhere> on their website ad then transfer to phone.  I do know that OSMAnd on my phone threw a hissy fit a few weeks ago , deciding that maps I'd downloaded in this way didn't exist. Although that may have been down to me moving them from the SD card to internakl memory.

I'll have a peek at organicmaps.

[lissotriton]

Organic Maps is a lot simpler and quicker. Not as many features as OsmAnd, but does the job if you just want an offline map etc.

OsmAnd does everything, but can be confusing. And maybe slow, though seems recent versions have improved it.
Also the free version is limited. Though you can get the full version for free on F-droid.

[Regulator]

If you have the premium version of OS Maps then you can create, save and download maps for offline use (with or without routes).

If you have any OS paper maps that have a QR code on the front you can scan it and download those maps for offline use.

[Tim Hall]

If you have the premium version of OS Maps then you can create, save and download maps for offline use (with or without routes).

If you have any OS paper maps that have a QR code on the front you can scan it and download those maps for offline use.

Does the OS app do turn by turn navigation, with a robot voice in my ear telling me my next move?  I know I can import gpx files (I have a premium whole country subscription).

[Kim]

If you have the premium version of OS Maps then you can create, save and download maps for offline use (with or without routes).

Yes, but it does that select-a-limited-area-for-download rubbish.  Memory-Map and the late, lamented Viewranger let you download all the OS regions in one go, which means you've always got the right map in your pocket.  I ditched the OS app in favour of Memory-Map for this reason.

[slope]

Thanks for all the input and suggestions🙏

Been out in the forest again and now that I've got the relevant downloaded OS maps stored on the iPhone, it was indeed fab to see where one was in real time on a familiar mapping interface miles from civilisation - and have fun going off up dead ends just to see what was there = sometimes amazing views of my local mountains but from a different angle and even hidden unknown little cwms where just sitting on a rock and listening to the silence was worth the whole ride.

Next decision is to what display thingy to mount on the handlebars. It was a pain having to get the phone out of the Carradice everytime.

Am I right in thinking if you put the phone in airplane mode, its battery isn't going to run down so fast¹? As having the maps on the phone and assuming GPS works separate from mobile and lack of coverage, what's not to like? I never use the phone to make phone calls out and about unless it's an absolute emergency - and I never need to receive calls that can't wait until I get home.

Currently only thinking of being out and about for a max of 5 or 6 hours, and mostly less - so not like needing to navigate a 200k Audax in constant rain (Kidderminster Killer 1993?), or any extended tour these days.

Maybe an old second hand phone with OS maps loaded, a decent handlebar mount and with no SIM? Or are proper outdoor GPS units better suited weather and sturdiness wise? Don't need zilch training data, no satnav voices, just maps, showing my position and being able to upload pre planned routes*

* well that's what I think I think?🤔

¹ I believe my Bosch e-bike smart motor do a phone mount that will charge an iPhone magnetically - but that might be an impractical and uneccessary?

[Feanor]

Am I right in thinking if you put the phone in airplane mode, its battery isn't going to run down so fast¹?

Yes, and by a large margin if you are in areas of poor mobile reception where it uses a lot of voles to try to find a signal.
On Audax events here in the Frozen Wastelands of The North, I always have my phone in Airplane mode for this exact reason.

[...]
are proper outdoor GPS units better suited weather and sturdiness wise?

In general, yes, but it depends on you usage scenario if it's worth it.

[slope]

^ thanks Feanor for that specific confirmation🙏

Certainly my particular part of Wales has very patchy mobile coverage at the moment/still

And yes, I'm very unlikely to be cycling hours on end in rains these days

New concern is having discovered comedy off roading and therefore bits falling off handlebars as I apply brakes to every so slightly rough downhill lumpy section and probably make things worse - if my dentures, glasses and eye sockets are any meaningful measure of vibrations

[grams]

iPhones 7 onwards are waterproof so just get  a sturdy case. The only thing to be careful about is charging it while the connector is wet, but qi/magnetic charging solves that.

Quad lock cases are a good way to mount a phone to the handlebars and are very touch cases.

5-6 hours of screen-on GPS operation should be easily achievable with a new phone without any special measures like airplane mode. Some apps are better than others about not burning the battery.

[slope]

^ thanks grams and everybody for keeping it simple with me🙏

I think I will try the/a mobile phone big screen thing (with suitable mount) as display first and go from there, hopefully learning that curve and making whatever of it all

🙏🙏👍👍

[Feanor]

iSome apps are better than others about not burning the battery.

Yes, but regardless of any apps, the phone itself will burn through battery looking for a signal.
That's why I have to switch to Airplane Mode in sparse coverage areas.
It makes a huge amount of difference.

[fimm]

iSome apps are better than others about not burning the battery.

Yes, but regardless of any apps, the phone itself will burn through battery looking for a signal.
That's why I have to switch to Airplane Mode in sparse coverage areas.
It makes a huge amount of difference.

+1.
Here's some advice from Mountaineering Scotland about using phones etc for navigation. I know slope isn't mountaineering, but some of the advice is still relevant.
https://www.mountaineering.scot/safety-and-skills/essential-skills/navigation/electronic-navigation-aids

[Regulator]

If you have the premium version of OS Maps then you can create, save and download maps for offline use (with or without routes).

Yes, but it does that select-a-limited-area-for-download rubbish.  Memory-Map and the late, lamented Viewranger let you download all the OS regions in one go, which means you've always got the right map in your pocket.  I ditched the OS app in favour of Memory-Map for this reason.

I think it depends on what you're using it for.

For defined routes, particularly circular walks, I'd use OS maps.

On longer linear walks (e.g. Caminos), I tend to use paper guides and Google maps (or the national equivalent of the OS app if available).  On the via Francigena in a couple of weeks I'll be using an app called Active Nav, which was provided by the company I'm using and comes complete with downloaded maps.

Cycling I tend to use Komoot or cycle.travel.

[Kim]

My normal use-case for OS maps is either:

- At the route planning stage, at the comfort of my desk, alongside cycle.travel OSM, Strava and whatever.  Desktop Memory-Map works well for this, as do paper maps, Bing Maps, and other websites with an OS layer option.

- For just-in-time planning while cycle touring.  Eg. last week I had to plan a lengthy detour around an extremely closed road, and having the relevant OS map in my pocket made this easier.  I hadn't expected to need it, so I wouldn't have done the select-an-area-for-download faff before I left (or if I had, it would have been for the more interesting area around my destination).  In this scenario online maps are unreliable, and paper maps are just impractical.

- I don't really have the knees for enough walking to justify a map, but sometimes use a mountain bicycle for the functional equivalent.  I tend to favour laser-printed excerpts of OS maps for this sort of thing, as you don't have to be precious about them.

[Feanor]

For course creation, or viewing an as-ridder / run GPX, Ye Olde BikeHike is still out there, and has free OS mapping alongside OSM-based mapping.
It will go to 1:25000 if you zoom in on the OS pane.

https://www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php

The option 'Toggle Map Sizes' will make the OS pane the bigger of the two.
(There's a bug where if you use 'Load Route' to upload a GPX to see where you went, it fails if the OS map is embiggened. Revert to having the OSM map embiggened first.)