Dogs

[Feline]

- You only have to swerve 2" to avoid the shit.

You have to swerve a lot further to avoid a side-stepping or jumping pedestrian, unfortunately.

Yes, especially if they are doing 'the chicken dance' 

[tonycollinet]

I have no problem with dogs being off a lead when they are not on public paths.

Andy - your statements to dog owners, is directly equivalent to the dog owners saying to cyclists that they should cycle at walking pace at all times on shared use paths. They might like that,  but they have no right to expect it.

[clarion]

I don't see that at all.

And I strongly object to the number of dogs I see off the lead on farmland - particularly at this time of year.

[rogerzilla]

It's funny how dogs can be perfectly happy one minute doing whatever they are doing, but if they need a shit, they need a shit NOW!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/gTH0pXZQ5I4&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/gTH0pXZQ5I4&rel=1</a>

Brilliant.

[Feline]

I recently posted this on a similar style discussion on CC.  It seems that we are as a society becoming increasingly partisan and less tolerant ....

A good post FF. As in many things, walking a little in the shoes of people on both sides of a situation helps with understanding and therefore tolerance.

There is no one solution to the dog-bike-runner-kids-people mix that will keep everyone happy, and so a mutual tolerance and respect for one another seems the best way of keeping everyone in one piece without denying anyone their pleasure of using the outdoor space.

In my line of work people often quote the mantra 'there are no bad dogs, only bad owners'. This is partly true, although fashions for owning certain breeds that do not integrate well into society mean there are certain dogs that have a higher inherent danger whatever their upbringing than others. I meet heaps of irresponsible and bad dog owners in my job (N.B. this doesn't apply to normal veterinary work, I do emergency cover for a large veterinary charity), and I wouldn't like to meet many of these people whilst out on my bike or with my dogs/kids really. What really scares me though is that many of them also have kids and drive cars.

[AndyK]

I have no problem with dogs being off a lead when they are not on public paths.

Andy - your statement to dog owners, is directly equivalent to the dog owners saying to cyclists that they should cycle at walking pace at all times on shared use paths. They might like that,  but they have no right to expect it.

I think non-dog owners have every right to expect dog owners to properly control their animals. It is unacceptable that an animal can run loose on a public right of way where there may be people who are afraid of dogs, or people who might come to injury should an uncontrolled dog run out in front of them.
]
I know it pisses me right off when a filthy dog jumps up at me making my trousers filthy in the process and the thick-as-shit owner simply says 'Oh he likes you' or 'he's only being friendly'. No. Fuck off, take your poxy animal with you, and control the bloody thing properly.

[tonycollinet]

I don't see that at all.

And I strongly object to the number of dogs I see off the lead on farmland - particularly at this time of year.

Agreed - dogs around farm animals should be on a lead. But on an open public space, it is perfectly reasonable for a dog to be run off a lead. Other people using that space need to be aware of that and act accordingly. Just as it is perfectly reasonable for a cyclist to be going at an appropriate speed for a shared use path - above walking pace.

[Fab Foodie]

I don't see that at all.

And I strongly object to the number of dogs I see off the lead on farmland - particularly at this time of year.

To avoid angry cyclists and upsetting other members of the general public we take ours across farmland most days ... bugger ....

[clarion]

Keep them on a lead, then.  Not difficult.

[Fab Foodie]

I almost cried with joy the other week.  I saw a white dog shit up by the church.  It was like Spangles, glam rock, Mk.3 Cortinas and dial-01-for-London all distilled into one glorious shot of nostalgia.

You should have collected it and put it in a jar, you'd get a few quid for it on ebay.

[mattc]

And I strongly object to the number of dogs I see off the lead on farmland - particularly at this time of year.

To avoid angry cyclists and upsetting other members of the general public we take ours across farmland most days ... bugger ....

Just shoot the thing before you upset anyone else. Best to shoot yourself - that would save a lot of trouble too.         

[tonycollinet]

I think non-dog owners have every right to expect dog owners to properly control their animals. It is unacceptable that an animal can run loose on a public right of way where there may be people who are afraid of dogs, or people who might come to injury should an uncontrolled dog run out in front of them.

I know it pisses me right off when a filthy dog jumps up at me making my trousers filthy in the process and the thick-as-shit owner simply says 'Oh he likes you' or 'he's only being friendly'. No. Fuck off, take your poxy animal with you, and control the bloody thing properly.

I think* non cyclists have every right to expect cyclist to cycle at a slow walking pace on shared use paths. It is unacceptable that a cyclist can whizz past people who might be afraid of being knocked over, or terrified when the sound of a bell is rung behind them to hear the sound of an approaching high speed cyclist etc etc etc....


*Actually I don't - but I hope the point is clear. If we can't share such spaces fairly we can't expect them to be shared fairly.


BTW - I am a non dog owning cyclist.

[Fab Foodie]

Keep them on a lead, then.  Not difficult.

No need, it's all arable ....

[Fab Foodie]

And I strongly object to the number of dogs I see off the lead on farmland - particularly at this time of year.

To avoid angry cyclists and upsetting other members of the general public we take ours across farmland most days ... bugger ....

Best to shoot yourself - that would save a lot of trouble too.         

Funny, my wife says that too ....

[Feline]

I don't see that at all.

And I strongly object to the number of dogs I see off the lead on farmland - particularly at this time of year.

To avoid angry cyclists and upsetting other members of the general public we take ours across farmland most days ... bugger ....

Don't worry, my daily route (I just did 6 miles) goes through a field of sheep twice. The farmer is my next door neighbour and I have his permission to ride through there with my dogs off lead because they are trained to stay on the path. In exchange I keep an eye on the sheep for him and let him know the ear tag number of any lame ones, and let him know if any have lambed early. Occasionally I meet a 'jobsworth' who takes delight in telling me 'dogs should be on a lead round here' (John has put a sign on the gate saying he will shoot dogs found worrying his sheep heh). Fortunately the type that like to bitch at me give up their new year's resolution of running around the reservoir by February, and everyone else who frequents the route know me, Google and Squidge. I actually tend to avoid taking the dogs out during the day at the weekend if it is sunny because there are so many annoying people out there. I wait until it is nearly dark so I get to watch the sun set over Crooks Peak and have the path all to myself. It was lovely tonight.

[ian]

I'm down with the live-and-let-live on shared use paths. I try not to run over dogs, small children, or inebriated or otherwise confused adults. Yes, it can occasionally be frustrating, but slowing or stopping occasionally and forcing a smile – even if it isn't entirely deserved – isn't the end of the world.

It's pretty common in Canada and the US for there to be segregated areas in parks for dogs off-leads, which ought to be case here. They're usually large and give plenty of room for the critters to bound about. Everywhere else, the dogs must be on a lead.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Without time to wade through 5 pages of this, I'd just like to say I agree with what Feline says below. In addition, I don't think it really makes much difference it is a highway - certainly when using residential streets I'm of the belief we should all be prepared to meet dogs, kids' games and jumble sales.

I dislike motorists' mistaken belief that they pay for and 'own' the roads and therefore cyclists should not be there. I feel pretty much the same way about cyclists mistaken belief that they are using a 'cycle path' and not a shared use path, and therefore no one should get in their way. Perhaps if the woman hadn't wrongly thought she was using a dedicated cycle path then her crash would not have happened.

Someone (can't remember who,sorry, but it was on page 1) raised the question of whether dogs are suited to urban environments at all. That's worth discussing IMO but a separate issue. I think Iceland has banned dogs in towns and I can see arguments for it as well as against but here and now dogs are accepted in towns, which obviously includes parks, paths and roads.

[Crumbling Nick]

I think Feline might have a view of dogs which is a little too benign.




is the sort of problem which troubles me.

[tonycollinet]

Perhaps - but how often does that happen. That is (again) like someone tarring all cyclists based on the actions of a minority.

[Wowbagger]

In the same way that some drivers are nasty aggressive individuals who shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car, so some dog owners have their dogs for entirely the wrong reasons. There are also some dogs that should not be allowed off the lead in any public place. There's a fair chance that the damage inflicted in the above photo is one of the small minority of bastard dog / owner combinations.

Most dogs these days have had the bulk of their aggression bred out of them. My own mutt is always happy to see cyclists and greets them with wags and smiles. Lots of his friends arrive at our house by bike.

In the press cutting in the OP, I don't think it's worth getting worked up by this particular press story. A horrible thing to happen, but how often have we read stories like this one when we know from first hand experience that the reporter is just plain wrong or has put a paper-selling spin on the piece? Whatever the highway / non-highway status of the place where this mishap occurred, we need to share the open spaces of this country with one another and the implication in the word "share" is that everyone respects others' rights to be there. Nearly all our problems as cyclists stem from the selfish minority of bullying motorists who go out of their way to make life unpleasant.

[Feline]

I think Feline might have a view of dogs which is a little too benign.

You appear to have a view of dogs clouded by anecdata. I can guarantee you that I have been bitten by more dogs than you have, but my job means I need to do things to them when they are stressed and frightened even when they give an initial warning to stop.

This thread is discussing an incident involving a dog on a shared use path not involving any aggression. The 'farm gate dog that chases cyclists for sport and bites them' is a whole different discussion. (Around here we describe it as 'interval training'.)
I made it very clear that to be under a control a dog must not bite and must have good recall. You are either ignoring what I wrote or simply choosing to misunderstand it to 'prove' an unrelated point. If I was a dog and read your earlier posts on this thread then I would probably bite you too.

[Crumbling Nick]

I'm not tarring anyone. I meant what I wrote, no more and no less.

I don't know about the frequency of such incidents, which is why I made no sweeping generalisations.

But the owner of dog in question did not appear to be the sort of nasty agressive individual that we tend to associate with rottweilers or pit-bull terriers.

Which still seems to leave a few unanswered questions in my mind.

[Crumbling Nick]

I think Feline might have a view of dogs which is a little too benign.

If I was a dog and read your earlier posts on this thread then I would probably bite you too.

That was my first post on this thread. I cannot understand this comment.

[Feline]

I'm not tarring anyone. I meant what I wrote, no more and no less.

I don't know about the frequency of such incidents, which is why I made no sweeping generalisations.

But the owner of dog in question did not appear to be the sort of nasty agressive individual that we tend to associate with rottweilers or pit-bull terriers.

Which still seems to leave a few unanswered questions in my mind.

There is a little-known reason why some dogs see cyclists as a threat.

Unfortunately it relates to postmen delivering by bicycle. Every morning an unknown guy turns up at the pack's lair (which naturally sends a natural pack animal into high defensive alert). He knocks, rings or makes a noise at the door. The dog barks to warn him off 'this is my pack's lair please stay away'. He turns on his heels hops on his bike and rides off. With repetition over time the dog 'learns' that barking makes the threatening cyclist-man go away, so he really must be up to no good. It also reinforces the dogs hierarchy perception that it must be more dominant than the would-be intruder, since he always leaves when warned.

Then one day the dog suddenly sees a cyclist when out on a walk. The instinct to see off the threat can be very strong.

Of course the owner of such a dog should generally be aware that their dog has issues with bikes, unless it is the first occasion it has manifested itself in a chase. Mostly they will then avoid walks in places where there might be bikes. Desensitisation involving inviting the postman in to meet the dog and give it treats often takes a while, and requires a sympathetic and friendly (plus brave) postman. Most people don't even know why their dog developed the problem in the first place.

[Feline]

I think Feline might have a view of dogs which is a little too benign.

If I was a dog and read your earlier posts on this thread then I would probably bite you too.

That was my first post on this thread. I cannot understand this comment.

Sorry Nick, I was mistaking you for Honest John 
If I was a dog I would definitely want to bite him not you!