BBC Cycling Documentary "irresponsible"

[Wendy]

I accept that Gaz thinks he is making a contribution to road safety by doing what he does, but I personally think it does us more harm than good. That you characterise failing to escalate confrontations with users who don't behave well as "meek" or as a "lack of contribution to road safety" is telling.

This bit is an unhelpful and dishonest attempt to alter what I said.

That Gaz was the only person interviewed in that programme who described the situation on the road as "war" and one in which he felt the need to "command" his position on the road is also indicative of a mindset that I don't think is helpful. There are other ways of doing this that are less confrontational.

I don't recall Gaz as calling it a war. That was the producers, I think. Do you have a timestamp on the programme for this comment?  In fact, I recall Gaz outspokenly saying it's not a war.

[spindrift]

Sometimes other road users cause me to brake sharply. Usually, my reaction isn't to shout, and continue shouting after I've come to a stop. Usually, my reaction is to mentally tut, then consider whether I should have a wholemeal cheese sandwich with raw onion rings and some Branston pickle for lunch, then notice a girl's nice bottom. I know which reaction is less likely to induce stress and aggro.

On the bridge overtake Gaz shouts "Yes!" when the driver stops. Gaz got the reaction he hoped for.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I've noticed that when I'm aggressive, I get aggression back.

When I'm calm, give way, flow with the traffic, it flows with me.

There will always be the occasional moron (like the person who slowed next to me this morning, pulled in towards me and held their hand on their horn). My impulse was to drag them out of their car and beat them with the car. Fortunately I rarely give in to impulses, practical or not.

But for me, the 'morons' are a rarity; 1 in 10 000 maybe?

Far more common is someone distracted, maybe a bit dozy. Simply not wide awake and snappy. Terrorising them with volume 11 shouts is really not going to achieve anything. One bellow/horn blast is enough; you really just need to be getting their attention.

[ian]

If you start yelling at someone they'll yell back. It's human nature and it doesn't really matter if they're right or wrong. Even if a driver knows they've been a dick, they will still yell back and get aggressive if challenged on those terms. And we're oddly precious about our cars, which seem to be less practical vehicle and more outward projection of ego. That only makes it worse. Mostly a weary, pitying shake of the head or a withering look does the trick effectively, and generally (not always) doesn't give a driver something to get het up about.

[Ham]

I don't want to shout at people on a bike ride. Shouting is loud and aggressive and unhelpful. Gaz's roundabout Range Rover pull out wasn't that bad, just ride on the hoods ready to ease off, why go up to the window and scream "Noooo"?

No need.

Ah, it might seem that way, but you're perhaps not that familiar with the effect of the wide angled lens he uses, and how braking is not easily visible on camera in much the same way hills don't look like anything steep in pictures. My own experience tells me that was much closer than you give him credit for, and that he had to brake quite significantly.

Here's an example of his braking, with the M4MYK taxi incident. He was doing some serious braking, and yet people still accused him of riding into the taxi on purpose and accelerating to cause the incident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1y41At_m9o

Discussion of individual riding events is not likely to lead to anything useful, but please consider:

You have said he was doing some "serious braking". No. He used his right hand to bash the car, that is the front brake hand. He was keeping up his speed and maintaining his position with what he already knew was a dodgy driver.  If instead of bashing the car, he had dabbed the front brake, the taxi would have been out of the way in front. Sure, he shouldn't have had to, but that's life in London. Leave all else aside, that choice speaks volumes. What do you know? it all almost ended badly, but you know what also? he's got it all on film and can PROVE he was right. Yeah, well.

[Wendy]

Sometimes other road users cause me to brake sharply. Usually, my reaction isn't to shout, and continue shouting after I've come to a stop. Usually, my reaction is to mentally tut, then consider whether I should have a wholemeal cheese sandwich with raw onion rings and some Branston pickle for lunch, then notice a girl's nice bottom. I know which reaction is less likely to induce stress and aggro.

On the bridge overtake Gaz shouts "Yes!" when the driver stops. Gaz got the reaction he hoped for.

I'd like to watch that bridge one again, I don't recall hearing the yes. I'd agree that's not great, but IIRC that was from the earliest of his videos, and he doesn't seem to have reacted like that for some time now.

To be fair, when I got a Scooby getting flashed by a speed camera after tailgating me, I yelled out a loud cheer. Schadenfreude like that is fairly normal behaviour, I thought. Alex on here, amongst others, has been known to express joy at camera flashes catching out some twit in a car.

For myself, I get lots of compliments on how calmly I react, and I'm bemused by this. I see that nearly everyone else reacts immediately with shouting and swearing, and that's not just camera cyclists, but many people, including a number of yacf riders. I don't feel able to judge them for this, because it seems to be normal human behaviour. I think an angry reaction is totally understandable in the fight or flight response. I also think you're forgetting that you're not experiencing that response when you're watching the video, so then you end up making a misjudgement about someone's reaction on video.

Going on too long could best be described by totally losing the plot when it came to that long haired chappie with the van and trailer in SonoftheWindsInc video. Now there, IMO, was a serious problem that perhaps needs counselling. If you want cyclists that react badly, then take a look at these channels:
20cfog
testeranimal1
SonoftheWindsInc

[spindrift]

I agree, sonofthewinds is aka traffic droid and I think he's as mad as a box of frogs.

[red marley]

I don't recall Gaz as calling it a war. That was the producers, I think. Do you have a timestamp on the programme for this comment?  In fact, I recall Gaz outspokenly saying it's not a war.

See 3:20 (and the preceding 30 seconds for context).

[pcolbeck]

I got shouted at by a cyclist in Birmingham a couple of weeks ago, On the A45 which is dual carriageway but slow usually due to traffic (40mph max). I was doing about twenty in the inside lane with traffic in the outside lane as well when a guy came haring between my and the car on my right head down then swerved across my front causing me to break and then started gesticulating and swearing at me for in his opinion not giving him enough room. I think he expected traffic to part for him like he was a police motorbike with lights and siren on. Seemed to be very angry.  He then continued on his high speed weave through the traffic ahead.
There is a difference between being confident and taking the primary position and being and arrogant aggressive pratt.
Just because your on a bike doesn't mean that traffic should make way for you and if you ride like a loon you are likely to get hurt as people don't expect cyclist to filter through traffic moving at a reasonable pace.
This is the first time I have run into one of these types though usually I see a lot more interactions where the car driver is aggressive or dangerous or simple lack of self preservation by cyclists such as the guy last week who shout across the road in front of me on an A road through a stationary traffic queue from one pavement to the other on a dark bike with no lights and in dark clothing in the pissing down rain at night. Milliseconds slower and he would have been collected by my bonnet. 
In general round here cars and bikes seem to get on OK without confrontation though both sides like to moan a bit. I don't live in a big city though so perhaps that's the difference.

[Wendy]

Discussion of individual riding events is not likely to lead to anything useful, but please consider:

You have said he was doing some "serious braking". No. He used his right hand to bash the car, that is the front brake hand. He was keeping up his speed and maintaining his position with what he already knew was a dodgy driver.  If instead of bashing the car, he had dabbed the front brake, the taxi would have been out of the way in front. Sure, he shouldn't have had to, but that's life in London. Leave all else aside, that choice speaks volumes. What do you know? it all almost ended badly, but you know what also? he's got it all on film and can PROVE he was right. Yeah, well.

If you were going to be honest about that event, then you would have admitted how Gaz clearly brakes as the taxi comes alongside and before it moves in on him. Bashing the cab as it starts to move in slows with Gaz's braking doesn't seem to me like something you should be criticising.

I think touching someone's car is the last resort, but sometimes that is the only way to encourage a driver to give you that little bit of space. I rarely touch anyone's vehicle because the negative reaction is usually not worth it, but I probably would if I felt as threatened as that video makes me feel.

His legbandage and many others here feel quite different to this, btw., and is entirely a fan of berating drivers and bashing their vehicles if I recall correctly. I suspect they won't comment on this topic to avoid the loud and nasty criticism though.  His leggbandage's argument is actually quite convincing to me, but I choose to follow a different route.

[Kim]

Sometimes other road users cause me to brake sharply. Usually, my reaction isn't to shout, and continue shouting after I've come to a stop. Usually, my reaction is to mentally tut, then consider whether I should have a wholemeal cheese sandwich with raw onion rings and some Branston pickle for lunch, then notice a girl's nice bottom. I know which reaction is less likely to induce stress and aggro.

Quite.  I know that I'm conflict-avoidant to a fault, but that does seem to mean that I'm mainly dealing with bad driving and street harassment rather than actual aggression.  Think of it as my own selfish contribution to road safety.

Shouting I reserve for warning or expression of fear.  There may be some overlap, but neither occur particularly often.

While I don't generally see the point, I wish I had been running a camera for yesterday's incident.  Not so much for getting the driver's details, but to see if there was anything I could reasonably have done to avoid it.  The only thing I can think of is using my mirror better. 

[Ham]

For myself, I get lots of compliments on how calmly I react, and I'm bemused by this. I see that nearly everyone else reacts immediately with shouting and swearing, and that's not just camera cyclists, but many people, including a number of yacf riders. I don't feel able to judge them for this, because it seems to be normal human behaviour. I think an angry reaction is totally understandable in the fight or flight response. I also think you're forgetting that you're not experiencing that response when you're watching the video, so then you end up making a misjudgement about someone's reaction on video.

Going on too long could best be described by totally losing the plot when it came to that long haired chappie with the van and trailer in SonoftheWindsInc video. Now there, IMO, was a serious problem that perhaps needs counselling. If you want cyclists that react badly, then take a look at these channels:
20cfog
testeranimal1
SonoftheWindsInc

As I said, I think you are at the lower end of the spectrum for cam'd up riders. And yes, there are many, many worse than Gaz, I've also acknowledged the general standard of his riding and observation is good. But...... he sees fit to impose his view of the world on others which speaks of arrogance. Even if he has more humility than some and seriously tries to ride as best as he can, it is still a perspective of arrogance.

Whatever else had been going on, at the time he decided to bang on the car, he could have been braking with that hand and wasn't. That is a choice, personal safety or telling other people what they are doing wrong /maintaining cyclists rights. I don't think anyone would contest that what followed was as a direct result of that choice. Gaz claims that had he not alerted the driver to the danger he was being put in, he would have been in more danger. No. He would have had to slow slightly. Shouldn't have had to, agreed, but there you are: choice.

[origamist]

I think he was very unwise to take part.

I can understand why Gaz chose to be part of this production as it was initially couched in terms of road safety. I chose not to participate as I feared it would incorporate helmet-cam content of the more extreme and confrontational variety and, as a consequence, road danger reduction issues would be mangled in a voyeuristic and unhelpful manner. With the notable exception of Cynthia Barlow, this was generally the case.

A number of people have commented on the studio bound interviews and the camera angles etc, but I had not realised how they were conducted.  It appears they used a variation of the “Interrotron” technique: http://www.fastcodesign.com/1663105/errol-morriss-secret-weapon-for-unsettling-interviews-the-interrotron and from what I can gather, Gaz was interviewed for around three hours.

[Veloman]

No. He used his right hand to bash the car, that is the front brake hand.

My front brake is on the left hand side.

Only mention this as there appears to be lots of assumptions regarding statistics and what happened etc.  Surely if we are examining this in a forensic manner then we should attempt to confirm the front brake lever position.

I also believe we are looking at this from a cyclists perspective and what matters is how others view the situation, that is the behaviour of cyclists.  We can only know this by asking them and no matter what we think on this forum, it is their view that is important.

I treat all other road users as complete idiots and always try to anticipate what they might do, no matter how unexpected or stupid it may be.  Knocked off 3 times by cars when it was not my fault and nearly taken out twice by fellow cyclists on audax events when it was not my fault!

[handcyclist]

Sometimes other road users cause me to brake sharply. Usually, my reaction isn't to shout, and continue shouting after I've come to a stop. Usually, my reaction is to mentally tut, then consider whether I should have a wholemeal cheese sandwich with raw onion rings and some Branston pickle for lunch, then notice a girl's nice bottom. I know which reaction is less likely to induce stress and aggro.

This post made my day!

[Ham]

Also,  I need for the first time in forever to take out car breakdown cover myself. I wasn't going to, but now I'm going to choose the AA, and write and tell Mr King why.

Dear Mr King

I thought you would be interested to learn that I made the choice to join the AA (after many years of company cars) because of your consistently sensible stance on cycling and improving relationship between cyclists and drivers despite there being cheaper alternatives available.

As a Londoner, while there are three cars in our household, I cover more miles on my bike than my car - over 8,000 miles a year on the London streets. My personal safety is paramount and better understanding from all road users is the single factor that will most improve that. There are very few voices as prominent as yours, especially from motoring interests, that are so sensible and outspoken. Please carry on, you have made the AA an organisation with which I am pleased to associate myself.

Yours sincerely,

Ham

half hour later:

Dear Ham,
 
Many thanks for your kind email.
 
Indeed we are trying to bring back some balance and common sense into the car/cycle debate rather than promoting some kind of war on the streets.
 
I am delighted that you appreciate our efforts and have joined us.
 
Expect to see more from the AA on cycling next year.
 
All the best,
 
Edmund

[clarion]

Fantastic response.  And good of you to email him in the first place - he needs to know that it makes a positive difference (there may well be some in the organisation wary of the new direction after years of antagonism.  A very clear message from you, Ham.  Well said.

[Ham]

Isn't is bizarre that I find myself more at one with the public pronouncements of the head of a motoring organisation than just about any of the cycling ones? Mind you, I suppose most cycling organisations could never get away saying stuff like http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/aa-boss-cyclisthating-drivers-are-absolute-idiots-8389124.html

[David Martin]

Is it time for the CTC and AA to renege on their divorce a centruy ago and collaborate on some issues?

[hubner]

Perhaps the AA are just seeing the commercial reality. In my mind, they are still anti-cycling. They're not going to say it, after all a lot of cyclists are also car drivers but what about that giving away free helmets stunt?

Re the prog, basically it's not Gaz etc on the programme, it's a version of Gaz etc the film makers want to present. I read somewhere that he was filmed for 3 hours and was told the programme was about road safety. The programme maker can then take that and slice and edit it into whatever they want. Eg, Gaz seems to be looking down into the camera and his face is a close up or cropped. Whereas other the other people were further away or weren't cropped.

[Hot Flatus]

Re the prog, basically it's not Gaz etc on the programme, it's a version of Gaz etc the film makers want to present.

Nah...the guy is somewhat of a tool.

Here is one of his recent videos where he is pontificating on what you should all be wearing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkdDDxfPBeI&list=UUAC4Ux3HvGxkBc2Q0sM3bKg&index=3