Motorcyclist filmed own death with head cam

[Redlight]

I'm quite perplexed by this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-29064891 story and the way it is being reported. It strikes me that doing 97mph on a 60mph road is not very clever and, while I wouldn't actively wish anyone to die in this way, it's hard to feel too much sympathy, given the damage that he could have caused to others.

I'm also surprised, given the latitude we see given to drivers who kill cyclists and pedestrians entirely through their own actions, that the driver of the car was prosecuted.

[Ruth]

It's a very similar scenario to my friend Nigel's death.  He was an accomplished rider who decided to go beyond his abilities one day and ride at 90mph on a 60mph road.  A dip in the road obscured his view of a driver waiting to turn across him.  The driver's view was also obscured by geography.  Nigel was airborne for about a hundred feet before the first impact. 

He was wearing his headcam.  He often posted his riding videos on you-tube - in fact, the local police used some of them to demonstrate high-speed riding. 

The headcam footage was used by the police to determine what happened.  The headcam was returned to his girlfriend after the inquest.  The final few seconds of the footage had mysteriously been wiped.  I suspect that was a kindness, done by the police for her. 

There is a culture among the riders of high-powered motorcycles, of riding like a fucking wanker on our roads.  Nigel was part of that, he made a mess and didn't even have to live with the consequences.  The mess they leave behind for everyone else is truly horrible.  That said, motorcyclists suffer the same kind of inconsiderate and inattentive driving that we cyclists do. 

This chap's family are probably just trying to make something positive come out of a terrible situation.  And you do need to look where you're going when you take your four-wheeled killing machine out on the road.

[Ruth]

If that lad had ridden within the speed limit on that road, I recon the driver would have had an extra one or two seconds to see him.  It could have made a difference.

[jsabine]

I'm quite perplexed by this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-29064891 story and the way it is being reported. It strikes me that doing 97mph on a 60mph road is not very clever and, while I wouldn't actively wish anyone to die in this way, it's hard to feel too much sympathy, given the damage that he could have caused to others.

I think it's really just the release of the video (as a Dire Warning) that's being reported. Shows fairly accurately that even if you believe you are riding within your limits on a good, clear road, someone else can take away what few options you've left yourself.

I'm also surprised, given the latitude we see given to drivers who kill cyclists and pedestrians entirely through their own actions, that the driver of the car was prosecuted.

He/she turned across oncoming traffic, in good conditions on a road with excellent visibility., and admitted to not having seen either the biker or the car behind him.

Causing death by careless driving doesn't seem unfair. 18 month ban and 130 hours of community service - hmm.

[danhopgood]

.................I'm also surprised, given the latitude we see given to drivers who kill cyclists and pedestrians entirely through their own actions, that the driver of the car was prosecuted.

I have seen the video and I was distressed by it - a tragic situation.  Loss of a good life, with life long impact on those directly involved, including the car driver and their family.

Regarding prosecution of the driver, I think there was a case to answer - namely that the car driver could have been more aware of the potential for a motorcycle to be travelling at excessive speed along what is a long, straight road.  That said, the excessive speed of the bike mitigates the situation from the point of view of the car driver.  Perhaps the sentence - if correct - means that the car driver was found only partly responsible.

[Si_Co]

I suspect admission that the driver hadn't seen the car behind either probably had an influence in that the jurors thought "well I might have missed the stupidly fast motorbike but I would have seen the car" ............ergo without due care and attention

[Redlight]

Re-reading my original post, I think I should have made it clearer that while I think it was right to prosecute, I am surprised that the driver was prosecuted, given the past performance of the relevant authorities in cases involving more vulnerable road victims.

[Woofage]

Regarding prosecution of the driver, I think there was a case to answer - namely that the car driver could have been more aware of the potential for a motorcycle to be travelling at excessive speed along what is a long, straight road.  That said, the excessive speed of the bike mitigates the situation from the point of view of the car driver.  Perhaps the sentence - if correct - means that the car driver was found only partly responsible.

The report stated that the car driver failed to see both the MC and the car behind. The simple conclusion, therefore, is that he wasn't paying attention. Presumably the driver of the car behind had time to react. Not so for the motorcyclist...

edit: cross post with Si_Co

[jsabine]

Re-reading my original post, I think I should have made it clearer that while I think it was right to prosecute, I am surprised that the driver was prosecuted, given the past performance of the relevant authorities in cases involving more vulnerable road victims.

That's how I read your post. I suspect that the driver's admission (especially if it was when initially questioned), the substantial vehicle damage along with the death, and the fact he'd killed a motorised road user all played a part.

[Ruth]

Precisely.  There was fault on both sides.

[Oscar's dad]

It's a very similar scenario to my friend Nigel's death.  He was an accomplished rider who decided to go beyond his abilities one day and ride at 90mph on a 60mph road.  A dip in the road obscured his view of a driver waiting to turn across him.  The driver's view was also obscured by geography.  Nigel was airborne for about a hundred feet before the first impact. 

He was wearing his headcam.  He often posted his riding videos on you-tube - in fact, the local police used some of them to demonstrate high-speed riding. 

The headcam footage was used by the police to determine what happened.  The headcam was returned to his girlfriend after the inquest.  The final few seconds of the footage had mysteriously been wiped.  I suspect that was a kindness, done by the police for her. 

There is a culture among the riders of high-powered motorcycles, of riding like a fucking wanker on our roads.  Nigel was part of that, he made a mess and didn't even have to live with the consequences.  The mess they leave behind for everyone else is truly horrible.  That said, motorcyclists suffer the same kind of inconsiderate and inattentive driving that we cyclists do. 

This chap's family are probably just trying to make something positive come out of a terrible situation.  And you do need to look where you're going when you take your four-wheeled killing machine out on the road.

A very thoughtful post. 

I watched the headcam footage this morning and felt a little shaken afterwards.  My sentiments echo yours.

[tonycollinet]

Just watched that - now my heart is pounding and I'm feeling shaky. It was his shout that did it - that and knowing the result.

[citoyen]

I've witnessed a similar accident, though fortunately it happened at much lower speed and the motorcyclist survived - car pulled out of a side road, biker hit the bonnet, flipped over it and landed on his back at my feet. Drivers really don't pay nearly enough attention to what's going on around them a lot of the time.

If that lad had ridden within the speed limit on that road, I recon the driver would have had an extra one or two seconds to see him.  It could have made a difference.

I don't think it would have made a difference to the driver seeing him, since the driver wasn't looking properly anyway, but it might have made a difference to his ability to avoid or lessen the impact.

[sg37409]

I don't think it would have made a difference to the driver seeing him, since the driver wasn't looking properly anyway, but it might have made a difference to his ability to avoid or lessen the impact.

Possibly.  Its pretty alarming how far back from the junction the collision becomes inevitable.

[Jurek]

Just watched that - now my heart is pounding and I'm feeling shaky. It was his shout that did it - that and knowing the result.

Ditto, I actually made a small noise and my arms turned into a load of goose flesh 

[levitator]

It's not difficult to locate the full footage of this tragic collision on youtube - although I've only found one without sound, there may be a reason for that.  I'm not going to post the link, in the circumstances.  Even without sound it's chilling, although not blood and gore.

As cyclist/motorcyclists' headcams and helmetcams (I have one, but it's on my handlebar), and motorists' dashcams, become more common, we are I'm afraid going to see many more of these in the years to come.  Is it a good thing, because it may shake up some of the "it couldn't happen to me" idiots?

[citoyen]

As cyclist/motorcyclists' headcams and helmetcams (I have one, but it's on my handlebar), and motorists' dashcams, become more common, we are I'm afraid going to see many more of these in the years to come.  Is it a good thing, because it may shake up some of the "it couldn't happen to me" idiots?

Dashcams and black boxes would definitely be a good thing - not only for the "it couldn't happen to me" idiots but also for the "I'm an above average driver" idiots.

I wonder in this case if the car driver would have been prosecuted in the absence of the helmetcam footage, even with the admission.

[pcolbeck]

I've witnessed a similar accident, though fortunately it happened at much lower speed and the motorcyclist survived - car pulled out of a side road, biker hit the bonnet, flipped over it and landed on his back at my feet. Drivers really don't pay nearly enough attention to what's going on around them a lot of the time.

Been there done that. Idiot pulled out of a side road through stationary traffic and emerged in front of me from behind a van. I left a Z1000 embedded in his passenger door and ended up 50 yards down the road. Luckily i cleared the car completely and escaped with minor abrasions.

[Jaded]

Dashcams and black boxes would definitely be a good thing - not only for the "it couldn't happen to me" idiots but also for the "I'm an above average driver" idiots.

If you want to see what happens in poor conditions, or with poor attentiveness (or some vodka) have a look at Russian car crash compilations. They can be quite instructive.

[rabbit]

So sad.  Well put into words Ruthie.

I've just watched the full footage on Youtube and also discussed the video and situation with the OH today. 

We both agreed that, in all honesty, seeing the footage would have probably done nothing to change the way we rode a motorbike...which is why I haven't ridden one for years and why he has never applied for a road license.  It's easy to be sensible when sat on the sofa. Most motorbikers know of someone personally who has been killed or seriously injured, yet they still head out and ride, I doubt this video will be at the forfront of their thoughts on this weekend's dry roads.  But who knows?  If releasing it just makes one person think "oooh, bit quick here, need to back off and watch that junction" it's been worth it IMO. 

They are killing machines, from both the way the throttle turning/speed/cornering/overtaking is addictive, and the way they are poorly seen by other road users (both 'decent' and 'not so decent' drivers).  I'd hate to see them banned and still love motorbikes (even though I don't ride one myself any longer) but one day I suspect it will happen. 

[Jaded]

The car driver should have seen the bike. Should have braked.

However, every day, on almost every road in the country, things like this nearly happen. It is because they don't generally actually happen that little is done to curb drivers' behaviour.

Things have been done to make cars much safer in crashes, and to make "dangerous" roads "safer". These have resulted in a fall in KSIs. That takes away the need for the govt to do much about driver behaviour.

For driver I mean driver/rider.

[Si_Co]

*snip*

As cyclist/motorcyclists' headcams and helmetcams (I have one, but it's on my handlebar), and motorists' dashcams, become more common, we are I'm afraid going to see many more of these in the years to come.  Is it a good thing, because it may shake up some of the "it couldn't happen to me" idiots?

IMHO yes, and in the event that something happened to me, be it my own or someone else's fault, Mrs S has instructions on what to do with my footage.

[Ruth]

Forgive me, comrades, for the slight hijack but this has brought it all back.

http://www.therevcounter.co.uk/uk-motorbike-forum/58410-nigel-wright-twpd-13.html

Nigel won the Minitwins championship on the only Ducati fitted with a minitwin engine in the UK.  This was possible because he designed and built the TWPD engine himself. 

If he had been riding less recklessly, his mum would have only lost one son, when his brother Michael died a year later of a sudden heart attack.  As it is, Margaret has lost both her children.

And there's a woman who lives on the Staindrop road who will have to live the rest of her life with the memory of Nigel's bike hitting her passenger door, his scream as he flew over her head, and the noise of his head hitting the road.

 

Yeah, he died doing what he loved.  So what?  I don't think it was worth it.

[Hot Flatus]

I feel sorry for this guy because he died but he died because of is own fucking stupidity. Not only that but his utter stupidity could have taken the lives of the occupants of the car.

I hate bikers. Biggest pricks on the roads. Our roads.

[levitator]

I won't put it so strongly as the previous post, but some bikers scare me.  More so when I'm driving, than when I'm cycling.  The ones who come towards me at god knows what speed, on a left-hand bend (RH to the biker) leaning hard over with their head within inches of the side of my car.  Horrible stories of decapitations spring to mind.  I couldn't handle that.