To dynamo or not to dynamo...

[Bobby]

For a few years I've been running a SON Delux + Edeulx II, and loved it!  The fit & forget for Audaxing has been amazing, and the German standard meaning I don't dazzle cars etc was also great.

Anyway, I broke my bike, a few months later came into some money & bought a new one with fancy carbon wheels & 12mm through axles.  No problem I thought, will get the front rim built up with a SON through-axle hub... however my new fancy wheels/rims are 2:1 lacing pattern & it seems SON don't make a hub that'll fit    The bike also does not have a hole in the front fork making dynamo lights slightly less appealing (I think I've worked out how to mount it, so less of a concern) 

Choices:
1) Buy a new dynamo wheel front wheel costing £Lots (assuming I want carbon rims to match the rear etc).
2) Buy a set of wheels that are less fancy, probably still £Quite_a_lot = ruling that one out.
3) Go back down the battery light route instead...

After I've sold my old wheels I guess I'll have a couple of hundred to put towards softening option1... but I've really stretched to get the bike, and don't want to keep spending 

But, should I be looking at option 3 again?  are there great battery lights that are not much hassle?   I have some old Expousre lights for MTB, but don't want to blind all the drivers, so it needs to be something road-suitable.

<stupid bike world with so many 'standards'>
<stupid 1st world problems>

[Polar Bear]

Personally I would cash in on the wheel bling and buy some handbuilt wheels with a dynamo front hub.

In fact, I did this many moons ago.  I bought an Airborne Carpe Diem with Mavic Ksyium wheels.  I sold the wheels, bought handbuilt wheels from Harry Rowland with a SON dynamo and some B&M lights and still had some change.  I still have those wheels.

[quixoticgeek]

Dynamo all the way IMHO.

J

[Paul H]

I'm sticking with dynamos, they suit my bike usage, which I think is the relevant factor rather than the lights themselves, I want a light available all the time without any planning or preparation, if my riding was more planned a battery light might be a better option.  It's not as big a gap as it used to be, there's plenty of decent StVZO battery lights that are brighter than the dynamo versions and will still run all night.  I've seen examples from Lezyne, Cateye, Supernova and Lupine, I'm sure there's plenty of others. A few years ago the only StVZO lights were battery versions of dynamo lights, my theory is the popularity of E-bikes has moved the development along. Some of the top end models have high and low beams, a non dazzle dipped beam like a brighter version of a dynamo light and a high powered full beam.

[Lightning Phil]

As above I think it’ll come down to your usage, particularly the audaxes you are riding. Have you kept the Edelux II or also sold that? If you’ve sold it, it kind of says which direction you are heading.

If battery I’d consider a STVZO light thst I can keep on a low setting to last the night. Supplement that with a super bright light with a handlebar mounted remote near the hand position thst I can use just when I have a downhill or section that warrants more light.

[Bobby]

I'm sticking with dynamos, they suit my bike usage, which I think is the relevant factor rather than the lights themselves, I want a light available all the time without any planning or preparation,

Yep, that sums me up too.  Thanks all for reminding me why I loved the old bike/dynamo setup 

As above I think it’ll come down to your usage, particularly the audaxes you are riding. Have you kept the Edelux II or also sold that? If you’ve sold it, it kind of says which direction you are heading.

LEL or similar... the the Edelux, I kept it, loved it 

Personally I would cash in on the wheel bling and buy some handbuilt wheels with a dynamo front hub.

Oooh, never thought of that option     I'll ponder, that could be a great way to finish the bike setup without spending more 

[Lightning Phil]

Well LEL it’d be a no brainer to run a dynamo setup.  Battery management would just be a headache you don’t need on such an event.  If you’re a faster rider maybe battery would work just fine. But for me, I know successfully completing LEL (again) will require quite a lot of night riding.

[andrew_s]

In a similar new bike position, I looked at the cost of a SON 28/12 disc wheel and an Edelux II, and decided to put the cash towards a posh battery light instead.

Supernova M99 (£450) - 3h30 1150 lumen/260 lux main beam, 10h 450 lumen/150 lux STVZO dip beam, and 50h 75 lumen/30 lux dim dip, with a handlebar-mounted button to switch between the modes.
There's a phone app that allows other modes, but it's crap so I don't use it other than for checking the state of the battery.

Lots of light and lots of runtime (enough for LEL, probably), so the dynamo advantage is reduced to not having to decide whether I'll be riding after dark before the start of the ride.

[quixoticgeek]

In a similar new bike position, I looked at the cost of a SON 28/12 disc wheel and an Edelux II, and decided to put the cash towards a posh battery light instead.

Supernova M99 (£450) - 3h30 1150 lumen/260 lux main beam, 10h 450 lumen/150 lux STVZO dip beam, and 50h 75 lumen/30 lux dim dip, with a handlebar-mounted button to switch between the modes.
There's a phone app that allows other modes, but it's crap so I don't use it other than for checking the state of the battery.

Lots of light and lots of runtime (enough for LEL, probably), so the dynamo advantage is reduced to not having to decide whether I'll be riding after dark before the start of the ride.

Reminds me that I have a supernova mini 2 light sat in a box not being used. I brought it when I was being indecisive about dynamo's a couple of years back. I have a USB connector on the end of it, so can power it off any usb power bank I feel like. It's consumption is about 4W, so a 10000mAh battery pack gives me 8 hours. With my 26800, it's closer to 25 hours.

But I never used it, I decided the dynamo made more sense for my use case.

J


[1] https://supernova-lights.com/en/products/e-bike-lights-25kmh/mini-2/

[Bobby]

Thanks andrew_s for the viable alternative, I've decided on the dynamo route again after reminiscing about how much I enjoyed the convenience   

[morbihan]

Something to perhaps consider is a dynamo extends the option of running your lights during daylight hours for extra safety/visability.
Low light conditions in inclement weather or riding through rapidly alternating light/shadows (tree lined roads etc) in particular.
For the couple of long events Ive done I leave the dynamo lights on 24/7.

[Kim]

Generally agree with the consensus.  Battery tech has reached the point where dynamo lighting no longer has a performance advantage (except perhaps at very low temperatures), and you can now get battery lights with proper road-friendly beams.  So it's all about the convenience of not having to think about how much lighting you're going to need in advance, which becomes more important for touring or longer audaxes, where it's harder to predict what time you'll be riding, weather, etc.

Note that if you go down the dynamo route, it's prudent to have something to see by when you stop to deal with mechanicals etc.  My preferred option is a head torch, but a basic battery light works well too.

[psyclist]

Note that if you go down the dynamo route, it's prudent to have something to see by when you stop to deal with mechanicals etc.  My preferred option is a head torch, but a basic battery light works well too.

I tend to have a spare battery front light, either fitted to the bars or hidden in a bag, depending on where I might be stopping. For mechanicals as mentioned, but also as a spare in case the dynamo light has a malfunction. Very rare, but I have had a wiring issue that necessitated use of the battery light. I would carry a spare with a battery front light too, at least for the longer rides.

[rogerzilla]

Most German dynamo headlights are designed for fork crown fitting, where they are out of the way, look neat, and give a good beam shape.  Most battery lights are designed for handlebar mounting, which is generally sub-optimal for beam shape, appearance and clutter.  You can get a B&M adaptor to fit, say, an Ixon IQ at the fork crown, but it is so heavy with its 4 x AA batteries that the bracket will break after not many miles.

[Lightning Phil]

In a similar new bike position, I looked at the cost of a SON 28/12 disc wheel and an Edelux II, and decided to put the cash towards a posh battery light instead.

Supernova M99 (£450) - 3h30 1150 lumen/260 lux main beam, 10h 450 lumen/150 lux STVZO dip beam, and 50h 75 lumen/30 lux dim dip, with a handlebar-mounted button to switch between the modes.
There's a phone app that allows other modes, but it's crap so I don't use it other than for checking the state of the battery.

Lots of light and lots of runtime (enough for LEL, probably), so the dynamo advantage is reduced to not having to decide whether I'll be riding after dark before the start of the ride.

Reminds me that I have a supernova mini 2 light sat in a box not being used. I brought it when I was being indecisive about dynamo's a couple of years back. I have a USB connector on the end of it, so can power it off any usb power bank I feel like. It's consumption is about 4W, so a 10000mAh battery pack gives me 8 hours. With my 26800, it's closer to 25 hours.

But I never used it, I decided the dynamo made more sense for my use case.

J


[1] https://supernova-lights.com/en/products/e-bike-lights-25kmh/mini-2/

Reminded me I have an exposure off road light (that doesn’t get much use these days)  that I’d best give the battery a top up to keep it going.

[Paul H]

If I'm riding through the night, I'll also have a Niterider Lumina fitted, 700 lumens in an anti-social beam pattern (Current version is 1,200 ). I don't need it, it's just sometimes nice in the dead of night, on unfamiliar country lanes, when no one else is about, to see hedge to hedge and the tops of the trees and it makes the shadows less scary.   Because it's not the primary light, I'm not bothered about run times, though it usually lasts a night (I doubt I use it more than 2 hours) It has a low powered torch mode which lasts silly hours, useful as a be seen light in an emergency, though I've never needed it.  It's also nice on a moonlit night to have something low powered so you can switch everything else off and ride by that moonlight.

[Cudzoziemiec]

As a light for after-dark mechanicals, a head torch has the great advantage that it leaves both hands free. It's not optimal for actually riding by but better than nothing.

[tom_e]

Note that if you go down the dynamo route, it's prudent to have something to see by when you stop to deal with mechanicals etc.  My preferred option is a head torch, but a basic battery light works well too.

I tend to have a spare battery front light, either fitted to the bars or hidden in a bag, depending on where I might be stopping. For mechanicals as mentioned, but also as a spare in case the dynamo light has a malfunction. Very rare, but I have had a wiring issue that necessitated use of the battery light. I would carry a spare with a battery front light too, at least for the longer rides.

The head torch also works as backup front light.  Not technically legal, but perfectly adequate to get home.

Also still an improvement on the BSO get-me-home light for dark paths, which now appears to be a mobile phone held with one hand running its "torch" function.


Back to topic, I'm also interested in whether there are any slightly cheaper than SON options for through axles.  Was speccing up a new frame the other day and hadn't hit this before.

[Lightning Phil]

Note that if you go down the dynamo route, it's prudent to have something to see by when you stop to deal with mechanicals etc.  My preferred option is a head torch, but a basic battery light works well too.

I tend to have a spare battery front light, either fitted to the bars or hidden in a bag, depending on where I might be stopping. For mechanicals as mentioned, but also as a spare in case the dynamo light has a malfunction. Very rare, but I have had a wiring issue that necessitated use of the battery light. I would carry a spare with a battery front light too, at least for the longer rides.

The head torch also works as backup front light.  Not technically legal, but perfectly adequate to get home.

Also still an improvement on the BSO get-me-home light for dark paths, which now appears to be a mobile phone held with one hand running its "torch" function.


Back to topic, I'm also interested in whether there are any slightly cheaper than SON options for through axles.  Was speccing up a new frame the other day and hadn't hit this before.

Apparently yes, after a casual browse of dynamos on the Spa website.Not just slightly cheaper either.

https://spacycles.co.uk/m20b0s133p4846/KASAI-FS-FK5D-Hub-Dynamo-%28Thru-Axle-or-Quick-Release-6-Bolt-Disc%29-User-Serviceable

[chrisbainbridge]

If I'm riding through the night, I'll also have a Niterider Lumina fitted, 700 lumens in an anti-social beam pattern (Current version is 1,200 ). I don't need it, it's just sometimes nice in the dead of night, on unfamiliar country lanes, when no one else is about, to see hedge to hedge and the tops of the trees and it makes the shadows less scary.   Because it's not the primary light, I'm not bothered about run times, though it usually lasts a night (I doubt I use it more than 2 hours) It has a low powered torch mode which lasts silly hours, useful as a be seen light in an emergency, though I've never needed it.  It's also nice on a moonlit night to have something low powered so you can switch everything else off and ride by that moonlight.

My other use for massive light is to show oncoming cars that there is something odd round the next but one corner.  I have a Fenix tactical light with handlebar remote and a couple of quick flashes slows a lot of cars down at night on the back country roads.

Whilst battery lights are getting better a dynamo just works.  I do not have to charge it, remember to turn it off or worry about it failing.  It comes on as I start pedalling and stays on.  My Igaro then charges my Garmin and anything else I want

[Kim]

Whilst battery lights are getting better a dynamo just works.  I do not have to charge it, remember to turn it off or worry about it failing. 

...or take it with you when you lock up the bike.

[quixoticgeek]

My other use for massive light is to show oncoming cars that there is something odd round the next but one corner.  I have a Fenix tactical light with handlebar remote and a couple of quick flashes slows a lot of cars down at night on the back country roads.

Whilst battery lights are getting better a dynamo just works.  I do not have to charge it, remember to turn it off or worry about it failing.  It comes on as I start pedalling and stays on.  My Igaro then charges my Garmin and anything else I want

One of the arguments about a light with integrated non changeable battery is it will have a finite life.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

One way in which the best battery lights now have an advantage over dynamos is that a few are available which are switchable between a StVZO-style cut-off beam and an unmodified cone of fire. I'm not aware of any dynamos which have this. Why would you want this? For riding off road, or occasionally on road – see Chris Bainbridge's post just above. Though see also his second paragraph. Dynamos just work and carry on working and are always there.

[tom_e]

Apparently yes, after a casual browse of dynamos on the Spa website.Not just slightly cheaper either.

https://spacycles.co.uk/m20b0s133p4846/KASAI-FS-FK5D-Hub-Dynamo-%28Thru-Axle-or-Quick-Release-6-Bolt-Disc%29-User-Serviceable

Cheers, I'd not seen that.  Makes quite a difference to costing out frame options.  Hmm..

[psyclist]

In case you are interested in getting behind the numbers in terms of dynamo outputs and drag for various options of dynamo and lights:

https://www.cyclingabout.com/dynamo-hub-power-drag-testing-schmidt-son-shutter-precision-shimano/

Impact on speed:

https://www.cyclingabout.com/dynamo-hub-drag-lab-testing/

In general, Son 28 and Delux have the lowest drag when nothing is connected (except for a rim dynamo which can be disconnected completely), but other hub dynamos have higher outputs when lights or charging are in use (but at a cost of higher drag).

The drag figures need to be taken in context, which the author points out, as other factors such as choice of tyre and aerodynamic profile can have as much or more impact to speed than using a dynamo.

Personally I opt for dynamo power as a more environmentally sound option, and the fit and forget nature or having the power on tap.